Harry Giles

[Duke4life831]

Coach K definitely do Giles any favors, and his development was (Please Use More Appropriate Word) because of that - which is unfortunate. He played well enough in the few minutes he did play to have earned more PT - which likely would have helped Duke. Per 40, he averaged 13.3 rebounds, 2.3 blocks, and 13.5 points despite rarely getting passed the ball - and his TS% and eFG were both 58%. And if he had gotten more minutes, he could have developed into the defensive rim-protector that Duke sorely needed. That's a lesson for all defensive-minded bigs - Don't go to Duke.

Your closing theory will be tested next year with Wendell Carter.

If Bolden goes back to school like he should Harry could be pushed out ala Chase Jeter (who should also consider leaving)

Jeter is basically all but gone. The whispers and rumors on that has been quite loud for the past few months (expect him to be on Nevada's or UNLV's roster next year).

I think Carter is going to have a tremendous year at Duke next year. Carter was the primary focus on this recruiting class for a long time and those players tend to get a very long leash with K. Its the secondary freshmen that really struggle with K. Ingram was the primary guy in his class, Derryck Thornton and Chase Jeter were the secondary guys and both guys clearly never gained K's trust. This past year Tatum was always the primary guy, Giles wouldve been as well prior injuries. Tatum had as long of a leash as any freshmen could ask for, while Bolden couldnt get any minutes and for some reason it took till the ACC tournament for the ball to be given to Frank even though everyone knew he was the obvious answer.

I think Carter and if we land Duval will have extremely long leashes and the team is going to run through those two. So basically if youre a top 5 type prospect youre going to get the long leash, if youre 10-15th or below good luck getting minutes. Its super frustrating as a Duke fan to see guys like Semi and Gbinije have really good college careers but they couldnt see any court time at Duke and probably the same will be said about Thornton, Jeter and probably Bolden in a couple years. but thats basically how it goes.

[The-Power]

Per 40, he averaged 13.3 rebounds, 2.3 blocks, and 13.5 points despite rarely getting passed the ball - and his TS% and eFG were both 58%. And if he had gotten more minutes, he could have developed into the defensive rim-protector that Duke sorely needed.

Not to mention the 7.7 PFs that would have prevented him from even playing anything close to 40 MPG. Who knows how he would have adjusted to playing more minutes but using per40 numbers for a player who averaged only 11.5 MPG and played only 26 Games doesn't make much sense - at least not if you want to argue with the numbers while not adding relevant context.

He probably would have done better with more minutes and more experience and perhaps learned to avoid foul trouble. Just because the numbers don't tell the entire story - doesn't mean it makes any sense to ignore them.

It also doesn't make sense to leave PFs out when using per40 numbers and simply assume he would have figured it out with no side effects. I'm not entirely against using per40 numbers even in cases like Giles but only if it's not selectively presented.

You say he would have figured it out. Well, maybe his rim protection and rebounding would have suffered in the attempt to avoid fouls? Maybe his conditioning wouldn't have allowed him to expend as much energy on a per-minute basis as he did in limited minutes? We can only shoot in the dark here but the least we should do is mention that we're merely guessing.

[Ruzious]

Not to mention the 7.7 PFs that would have prevented him from even playing anything close to 40 MPG. Who knows how he would have adjusted to playing more minutes but using per40 numbers for a player who averaged only 11.5 MPG and played only 26 Games doesn't make much sense - at least not if you want to argue with the numbers while not adding relevant context.

He probably would have done better with more minutes and more experience and perhaps learned to avoid foul trouble. Just because the numbers don't tell the entire story - doesn't mean it makes any sense to ignore them.

It also doesn't make sense to leave PFs out when using per40 numbers and simply assume he would have figured it out with no side effects. I'm not entirely against using per40 numbers even in cases like Giles but only if it's not selectively presented.

You say he would have figured it out. Well, maybe his rim protection and rebounding would have suffered in the attempt to avoid fouls? Maybe his conditioning wouldn't have allowed him to expend as much energy on a per-minute basis as he did in limited minutes? We can only shoot in the dark here but the least we should do is mention that we're merely guessing.

You already brought up the fouls issue. I don't know that it needs to be repeated 77 times. I didn't disagree with you that it's an issue - just as it was with Collins at Wake Forest and lots of young bigs. But young college players do generally improve with more experience. I don't consider that taking a shot in the dark.

[No-Man]

What's Duke gonna look like next year? I am assuming Jackson and Bolden are back, can't see how Marques declares even with w/e he said earlier in the year, Giles I get it.
Personally I believe Kennard will be back, Grayson likely is out, I am gonna guess they get both Knox and Duval.

Jackson-Duval
Kennard-Trent-O'Connell
Knox-Trent/White
Carter-DeLaurier-Robinson/Obi
Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic

Dunno how that will work, gonna guess that Duval isnt gonna be happy as a back-up and that Coach K would like to use Knox as a PF most of the time, so likely they will play Jackson, Duval, Kennard and Trent, plus maybe some Knox at times all the minutes on the perimeter, and then Carter, Knox, DeLaurier and something between Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic, dunno who to trust from that group honestly, inside.

Duval-Trent or Jackson-Kennard-Knox or DeLaurier-Carter looks like the best 5 they can put out there.

[Duke4life831]

What's Duke gonna look like next year? I am assuming Jackson and Bolden are back, can't see how Marques declares even with w/e he said earlier in the year, Giles I get it.
Personally I believe Kennard will be back, Grayson likely is out, I am gonna guess they get both Knox and Duval.

Jackson-Duval
Kennard-Trent-O'Connell
Knox-Trent/White
Carter-DeLaurier-Robinson/Obi
Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic

Dunno how that will work, gonna guess that Duval isnt gonna be happy as a back-up and that Coach K would like to use Knox as a PF most of the time, so likely they will play Jackson, Duval, Kennard and Trent, plus maybe some Knox at times all the minutes on the perimeter, and then Carter, Knox, DeLaurier and something between Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic, dunno who to trust from that group honestly, inside.

Duval-Trent or Jackson-Kennard-Knox or DeLaurier-Carter looks like the best 5 they can put out there.

Talk is Luke and Grayson are gone. But say if Luke returns and we sign Duval and Knox (I think Knox ends up at you guys at UNC). Our lineup more then likely would be

Duval
Frank
Luke
Knox
Carter

With Trent being the first guy and if one of Bolden/Jeter come back they would be the first big off then bench and that would make up K's rotation of 7.

[nurseryc]

Duke would have progressed further this year in the tournament if Giles had of been utilised better by coach K. Fact.

[No-Man]

I thought Knox was kind of a lock for Duke and UNC was an outsider, we will see I guess.

[Duke4life831]

I thought Knox was kind of a lock for Duke and UNC was an outsider, we will see I guess.

Duke is still considered the favorites I believe but I dont think anyone considers him a lock. I just have a feeling that UNC is going to find a way to steal him away.

[No-Man]

I thought Knox was kind of a lock for Duke and UNC was an outsider, we will see I guess.

Duke is still considered the favorites I believe but I dont think anyone considers him a lock. I just have a feeling that UNC is going to find a way to steal him away.

we have a huge gap to fill with Jackson leaving, plus the seniors, assuming Berry stays...

Berry-Felton
Williams-Woods-Platek
Pinson-Robinson
Maye-Manley
Bradley-Huffman

The team is gonna struggle some, I like the players and the fit, just not enough bodies that can play unless some of the freshmen surprise, not sure if Felton will start or not, but I like Williams shooting with the starters, and we need a quality back-up PG, Woods can't do that.
Knox will fit right in and will get to start at the PF most likely.

[SirChurros]

Duke would have progressed further this year in the tournament if Giles had of been utilised better by coach K. Fact.

This is a pretty big leap.

[The-Power]

Duke would have progressed further this year in the tournament if Giles had of been utilised better by coach K. Fact.

I'm not sure you understand what the word 'fact' means.

[SirChurros]

What's Duke gonna look like next year? I am assuming Jackson and Bolden are back, can't see how Marques declares even with w/e he said earlier in the year, Giles I get it.
Personally I believe Kennard will be back, Grayson likely is out, I am gonna guess they get both Knox and Duval.

Jackson-Duval
Kennard-Trent-O'Connell
Knox-Trent/White
Carter-DeLaurier-Robinson/Obi
Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic

Dunno how that will work, gonna guess that Duval isnt gonna be happy as a back-up and that Coach K would like to use Knox as a PF most of the time, so likely they will play Jackson, Duval, Kennard and Trent, plus maybe some Knox at times all the minutes on the perimeter, and then Carter, Knox, DeLaurier and something between Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic, dunno who to trust from that group honestly, inside.

Duval-Trent or Jackson-Kennard-Knox or DeLaurier-Carter looks like the best 5 they can put out there.

Talk is Luke and Grayson are gone. But say if Luke returns and we sign Duval and Knox (I think Knox ends up at you guys at UNC). Our lineup more then likely would be

Duval
Frank
Luke
Knox
Carter

With Trent being the first guy and if one of Bolden/Jeter come back they would be the first big off then bench and that would make up K's rotation of 7.

I've heard Jeter is almost a certainty to leave and that Giles is 100% gone while Kennard and Allen are up in the air.

[Duke4life831]

What's Duke gonna look like next year? I am assuming Jackson and Bolden are back, can't see how Marques declares even with w/e he said earlier in the year, Giles I get it.
Personally I believe Kennard will be back, Grayson likely is out, I am gonna guess they get both Knox and Duval.

Jackson-Duval
Kennard-Trent-O'Connell
Knox-Trent/White
Carter-DeLaurier-Robinson/Obi
Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic

Dunno how that will work, gonna guess that Duval isnt gonna be happy as a back-up and that Coach K would like to use Knox as a PF most of the time, so likely they will play Jackson, Duval, Kennard and Trent, plus maybe some Knox at times all the minutes on the perimeter, and then Carter, Knox, DeLaurier and something between Bolden/Jeter/Vrankovic, dunno who to trust from that group honestly, inside.

Duval-Trent or Jackson-Kennard-Knox or DeLaurier-Carter looks like the best 5 they can put out there.

Talk is Luke and Grayson are gone. But say if Luke returns and we sign Duval and Knox (I think Knox ends up at you guys at UNC). Our lineup more then likely would be

Duval
Frank
Luke
Knox
Carter

With Trent being the first guy and if one of Bolden/Jeter come back they would be the first big off then bench and that would make up K's rotation of 7.

I've heard Jeter is almost a certainty to leave and that Giles is 100% gone while Kennard and Allen are up in the air.

Ya Jeter is gone, going back to Nevada. Giles has always been 100% gone. I believe Bolden is thought of being gone as well. While Luke is pretty much gone with Grayson having a chance of coming back.

[Derento]

What made Giles such a high level prospect before?

[Duke4life831]

What made Giles such a high level prospect before?

He was a tremendous athlete. He was very quick and ran the floor like a wing and not a big. Was able to guard both out on the perimeter and defend the rim and he was the definition of an elite rebounder. Offensively his jumper was a work in progress but had a solid jumper to about 18 feet and could score inside with either hand and was basically unstoppable near the basket with his combo of size, athleticism and aggression.

Basically he was a phenomenal athlete with great size, mixed with an elite motor and work ethic. He was truly a special prospect before the injuries.

[Roy The Natural]

What made Giles such a high level prospect before?

He was a tremendous athlete. He was very quick and ran the floor like a wing and not a big. Was able to guard both out on the perimeter and defend the rim and he was the definition of an elite rebounder. Offensively his jumper was a work in progress but had a solid jumper to about 18 feet and could score inside with either hand and was basically unstoppable near the basket with his combo of size, athleticism and aggression.

Basically he was a phenomenal athlete with great size, mixed with an elite motor and work ethic. He was truly a special prospect before the injuries.

I'm not even sure I'd draft him anymore to be honest. I mean, I guess it's worth a shot with an early 2nd/late 1st... but the guy absolutely doesn't look capable of playing in the NBA right now, and while that could change, it's hard to imagine him being anywhere near what he was with how bad he looks now.

[Duke4life831]

What made Giles such a high level prospect before?

He was a tremendous athlete. He was very quick and ran the floor like a wing and not a big. Was able to guard both out on the perimeter and defend the rim and he was the definition of an elite rebounder. Offensively his jumper was a work in progress but had a solid jumper to about 18 feet and could score inside with either hand and was basically unstoppable near the basket with his combo of size, athleticism and aggression.

Basically he was a phenomenal athlete with great size, mixed with an elite motor and work ethic. He was truly a special prospect before the injuries.

I'm not even sure I'd draft him anymore to be honest. I mean, I guess it's worth a shot with an early 2nd/late 1st... but the guy absolutely doesn't look capable of playing in the NBA right now, and while that could change, it's hard to imagine him being anywhere near what he was with how bad he looks now.

I cant argue that. I mean if he last till the 2nd round I would love for the Warriors to do what they did last year and basically just buy a 2nd round pick and take him. Then Id just sit him the entire year and just rehab and train him the whole year. To me as a Warrior fan Id give up say Looney and cash for a chance for Giles. But I do agree, if you took away his name so he didnt have the hype. Now way in hell does any team draft him. He looked like a shell of himself athletically and skill wise. I think the lack of athleticism makes him second guess everything he does out on the court and you cant second guess yourself at this level, when you do you look like exactly what he looked like this year.

I mean this was a dude that in high school was taking guys off the dribble from the 3pt line and his hands were like glue whenever someone tossed the ball down to him. This past year, he looked extremely hesitant to even attempt to put the ball on the court and he blew so many easy buckets down low this year as well.

But again if im a playoff team and hes there in the 2nd round, id take a flyer on him or if I have multiple 1st round picks and one of my picks is late in the 1st I might take a flyer on him. But Id also understand if no team took a chance on him.

[Roy The Natural]

He was a tremendous athlete. He was very quick and ran the floor like a wing and not a big. Was able to guard both out on the perimeter and defend the rim and he was the definition of an elite rebounder. Offensively his jumper was a work in progress but had a solid jumper to about 18 feet and could score inside with either hand and was basically unstoppable near the basket with his combo of size, athleticism and aggression.

Basically he was a phenomenal athlete with great size, mixed with an elite motor and work ethic. He was truly a special prospect before the injuries.

I'm not even sure I'd draft him anymore to be honest. I mean, I guess it's worth a shot with an early 2nd/late 1st... but the guy absolutely doesn't look capable of playing in the NBA right now, and while that could change, it's hard to imagine him being anywhere near what he was with how bad he looks now.

I cant argue that. I mean if he last till the 2nd round I would love for the Warriors to do what they did last year and basically just buy a 2nd round pick and take him. Then Id just sit him the entire year and just rehab and train him the whole year. To me as a Warrior fan Id give up say Looney and cash for a chance for Giles. But I do agree, if you took away his name so he didnt have the hype. Now way in hell does any team draft him. He looked like a shell of himself athletically and skill wise. I think the lack of athleticism makes him second guess everything he does out on the court and you cant second guess yourself at this level, when you do you look like exactly what he looked like this year.

I mean this was a dude that in high school was taking guys off the dribble from the 3pt line and his hands were like glue whenever someone tossed the ball down to him. This past year, he looked extremely hesitant to even attempt to put the ball on the court and he blew so many easy buckets down low this year as well.

But again if im a playoff team and hes there in the 2nd round, id take a flyer on him or if I have multiple 1st round picks and one of my picks is late in the 1st I might take a flyer on him. But Id also understand if no team took a chance on him.

Absolutely, for everything everyone says about him. When I watch his highschool tape, it's his quicktwitch athleticism and his ballhhandling that truly were awe inspiring for his size. Even before, his jumping was good but not spectacular (from what I saw), and his help defense was spotty... but he had all the potential in the world, and his ballhandling and speed/quickness made him a surefire good offensive player in the NBA... he's shown absolutely nothing at Duke, none of the good stuff he showed in highschool, and none of the spotty stuff either... because he's shown zero ability to impact the game. Like I said, he might be worth a risk in the late 1st round/early 2nd round... but he's worth a risk in the same way that Jonathan Jeanne is.

Really high probability to not in the NBA in 2-3 years, with a minimal but sort of plausible chance to become a franchise changing player.

[GimmeDat]

I think we'll get a better idea of his range after workouts, but I can't see a team not taking a flyer in him in the 20's. I'd be surprised to see him drop to the 2nd round unless the red flags are almost 100%.

[tsmith]

When watching him i feel its evident that his confidence is just as big a factor as to why he's looking like trash as the injury.