Vrenz Bleijenbergh -Telenet Giants Antwerp - 2021 NBA Draft

pad300 · Post #61 » by **pad300** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:40 am

Ok, if you don't want to actually look the #'s up, I'll post them

BLK%
Poku 8.31 Vrenz 2.21
TRB%
Poku 21.24 Vrenz 11.24

11.24 is not a good TRB% for a 4. It is an accceptable number for a 3 or a 2. Roko Prkacin for example, is putting up a TRB% of 18.37. Josh Giddey is putting up 12.8%. Garuba 18%. Sengun 20.5%. Vrenz is not a unicorn, because he's not a big.

SNPA · Post #62 » by **SNPA** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:31 am

pad300 wrote:Ok, if you don't want to actually look the #'s up, I'll post them

BLK%
Poku 8.31 Vrenz 2.21
TRB%
Poku 21.24 Vrenz 11.24

11.24 is not a good TRB% for a 4. It is an accceptable number for a 3 or a 2. Roko Prkacin for example, is putting up a TRB% of 18.37. Josh Giddey is putting up 12.8%. Garuba 18%. Sengun 20.5%. Vrenz is not a unicorn, because he's not a big.

I have him as a SF. (at least for the early part of his career)

Catchall · Post #63 » by **Catchall** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:46 am

Guy's going to need a nickname....like Belgian Chocolate, Mercedes Vrenz, Twerp, ...

SNPA · Post #64 » by **SNPA** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:54 am

Catchall wrote:Guy's going to need a nickname....like Belgian Chocolate, Mercedes Vrenz, Twerp, ...

Winner.

alpngso · Post #65 » by **alpngso** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:18 am

Is he like discount Poku in the 2nd rd? considering Poku was 17th pick?

BlazersBroncos · Post #66 » by **BlazersBroncos** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:25 pm

Is he like discount Poku in the 2nd rd? considering Poku was 17th pick?

Poku is a PF, Vrenz is a SF. As other have pointed out, Vrenz doesnt block or rebound anywhere close to the level of Poku.

I think Poku was more unique coming out personally. I dont see Vrenz as quite as athletic or unique in his movement as Poku. To me, Poku has top-3 option potential while Vrenz seems to be a guy that might become a great role player.

But, I am a Poku stan.

mademan · Post #67 » by **mademan** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:59 pm

pad300 wrote:Ok, if you don't want to actually look the #'s up, I'll post them

BLK%
Poku 8.31 Vrenz 2.21
TRB%
Poku 21.24 Vrenz 11.24

11.24 is not a good TRB% for a 4. It is an accceptable number for a 3 or a 2. Roko Prkacin for example, is putting up a TRB% of 18.37. Josh Giddey is putting up 12.8%. Garuba 18%. Sengun 20.5%. Vrenz is not a unicorn, because he's not a big.

Do you have any info on the competition they were up against? Was it similar?

PhilBlackson · Post #68 » by **PhilBlackson** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:02 pm

Like him more than Giddey tbh.

Hal14 · Post #69 » by **Hal14** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:50 pm

pad300 wrote:Ok, if you don't want to actually look the #'s up, I'll post them

BLK%
Poku 8.31 Vrenz 2.21
TRB%
Poku 21.24 Vrenz 11.24

11.24 is not a good TRB% for a 4. It is an accceptable number for a 3 or a 2. Roko Prkacin for example, is putting up a TRB% of 18.37. Josh Giddey is putting up 12.8%. Garuba 18%. Sengun 20.5%. Vrenz is not a unicorn, because he's not a big.

Yeah well many good 4's in the NBA average in the 11-12% range for rebounding %..Kai Jones had a rebounding % of 11.8

Pair that strong rebounding with an assist % of 22.2% which is crazy high for a non-PG, especially considering Vrenz had a low usage % of 21.4.

Only non-PG in this year's draft who put up that high of an assist % that I'm aware of is Scottie Barnes.

But Vrenz is a much better shooter than Barnes and much better rebounder...Vrenz also has better handle than Barnes and is 3 inches taller.

Now I'm not saying I have Vrenz higher than Barnes on my big board but I don't think Vrenz is really that far off..

Oh and I never said Vrenz was a unicorn. You're implying Poku is a unicorn though, which is odd considering he looks like someone who would fall down to the ground if you blew on him. I mean, what's the success rate in the NBA for guys who are 7'0" and only 195 lbs? (or similar frame)

Post #70 » by **Nuntius** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:29 pm

mademan wrote:
pad300 wrote:Ok, if you don't want to actually look the #'s up, I'll post them

BLK%
Poku 8.31 Vrenz 2.21
TRB%
Poku 21.24 Vrenz 11.24

11.24 is not a good TRB% for a 4. It is an accceptable number for a 3 or a 2. Roko Prkacin for example, is putting up a TRB% of 18.37. Josh Giddey is putting up 12.8%. Garuba 18%. Sengun 20.5%. Vrenz is not a unicorn, because he's not a big.

Do you have any info on the competition they were up against? Was it similar?

Poku played for Olympiacos' reserve team in the A2, Greece's second-tier league. Vrenz played for the Antwerp Giants in the Pro Basketball League, Belgium's first-tier league (that is about to be replaced by the BNXT League that will serve as the first-tier competition for both Belgium and the Netherlands, useless info is useless).

The Greek league is definitely better than Belgium's league but Poku didn't play for the main team. He didn't play in the first-tier. He played for the reserve team in the second-tier. So, it could be similar or Vrenz could have faced slightly better competition. I'd be lying if I said that I was 100% sure but I did want to give you the context.

Coeur · Post #71 » by **Coeur** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:10 pm

This guy is going in the first. Denver 26 to Utah 30. Those teams would love to see him still there. Could easily see him considered from 16-19 or so

Catchall · Post #72 » by **Catchall** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:38 pm

I like him as a prospect overall, but the real upside is the proposition that he's going to be playing on the ball at the next level. I need to see him change directions with his dribble and show a little more craftiness believe in him as a creator. Can he split a trap, or reject a screen, or get by a defender with a hesitation or tight cross-over...? If Vrenz can really create at a high level, then he becomes a much more attractive prospect.

For example, the myth of Issac Bonga was that he was a big, long point guard, but Bonga's on-ball creation didn't really translate to the NBA.

Hal14 · Post #73 » by **Hal14** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:21 am

Catchall wrote:I like him as a prospect overall, but the real upside is the proposition that he's going to be playing on the ball at the next level. I need to see him change directions with his dribble and show a little more craftiness believe in him as a creator. Can he split a trap, or reject a screen, or get by a defender with a hesitation or tight cross-over...? If Vrenz can really create at a high level, then he becomes a much more attractive prospect.

For example, the myth of Issac Bonga was that he was a big, long point guard, but Bonga's on-ball creation didn't really translate to the NBA.

Fair point. But Giddey isn't much of a self creator yet most still have him as a lottery pick, and he's 2 inches shorter than Vrenz. Of course, Giddey being 2 yrs younger helps but is that enough to justify Giddey in the 8-13 range but Vrenz in the 30-40 range?

SNPA · Post #74 » by **SNPA** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:28 am

Damn. Spurs sniffing around too. All hope of getting this dude on the down low is gone.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.poundingtherock.com/platform/amp/2021/7/12/22574609/report-the-spurs-to-conduct-a-pre-draft-workout-with-vrenz-bleijenbergh

Post #75 » by **Nuntius** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:04 am

Hal14 wrote:
Catchall wrote:I like him as a prospect overall, but the real upside is the proposition that he's going to be playing on the ball at the next level. I need to see him change directions with his dribble and show a little more craftiness believe in him as a creator. Can he split a trap, or reject a screen, or get by a defender with a hesitation or tight cross-over...? If Vrenz can really create at a high level, then he becomes a much more attractive prospect.

For example, the myth of Issac Bonga was that he was a big, long point guard, but Bonga's on-ball creation didn't really translate to the NBA.

Fair point. But Giddey isn't much of a self creator yet most still have him as a lottery pick, and he's 2 inches shorter than Vrenz. Of course, Giddey being 2 yrs younger helps but is that enough to justify Giddey in the 8-13 range but Vrenz in the 30-40 range?

Giddey is an elite level passer at 18. Vrenz is both older and nowhere near as good as a passer.

The-Power · Post #76 » by **The-Power** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:04 am

Nuntius wrote:Giddey is an elite level passer at 18. Vrenz is both older and nowhere near as good as a passer.

And for all the concerns that exist about Giddey as a scorer, they actually score at similar volume and efficiency per 36. Do people actually realize that Vrenz is still an incredibly inefficient offensive player in the Belgian league at age 20? I'm starting to wonder if people are only looking at highlight videos with him because as intriguing as his highlight plays look, there's a lot of rough basketball plays in-between those.

Post #77 » by **Nuntius** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:29 am

The-Power wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Giddey is an elite level passer at 18. Vrenz is both older and nowhere near as good as a passer.

And for all the concerns that exist about Giddey as a scorer, they actually score at similar volume and efficiency per 36. Do people actually realize that Vrenz is still an incredibly inefficient offensive player in the Belgian league at age 20? I'm starting to wonder if people are only looking at highlight videos with him because as intriguing as his highlight plays look, there's a lot of rough basketball plays in-between those.

But even if Vrenz scored better than Giddey, the point would still be moot. Vrenz would have to be a very, very good scorer to counteract Giddey's elite passing. And Giddey's passing really is elite. Let's not overlook that. Giddey routinely makes Luka-like passes and reads. I really feel that the post I was responding was not giving Giddey's passing the credit that it deserves.

I have a number of issues with Giddey as a prospect (shooting, ball-handling, defense et cetera) and I'm not even sure if I'd like my Pacers to draft him at #13 but there should be absolutely zero questions about his passing ability.

BlazersBroncos · Post #78 » by **BlazersBroncos** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:57 pm

Ya, Giddey has a special feel from the game from a passing/distributing standpoint. People his age with his passing skills are very rare. But I am not sure those skills will matter nearly as much if he doesnt develop a consistent shot. Which, IMO, he will. He is passable at 18 and shooting is one of the easiest traits to improve on.

Vrenz is unique in some ways, and certainly appealing with his height/passing/3PT shot. But he is nearly 21, playing in 2nd tier league.

machu46 · Post #79 » by **machu46** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:19 pm

I find Vrenz to be an interesting prospect, but it really all boils down to his shooting. He looks like he should turn into a pretty good shooter IMO, but to this point, he's been very inconsistent in that regard and he's not really doing anything for you inside. Fine with gambling on him in the 2nd round but I understand why guys like Poku were much more highly regarded (even if I was never on that bandwagon personally).

I don't like Giddey as a prospect either, but again, I totally get why people would be significantly higher on him than Vrenz.

LofJ · Post #80 » by **LofJ** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:46 pm

SNPA wrote:Damn. Spurs sniffing around too. All hope of getting this dude on the down low is gone.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.poundingtherock.com/platform/amp/2021/7/12/22574609/report-the-spurs-to-conduct-a-pre-draft-workout-with-vrenz-bleijenbergh

He also worked out with the Kings and the Hornets (today). The Kings, Hornets, and Spurs are probably talking to OKC or the Knicks about a trade down and want to take a look at him later in the first.