Jaden Ivey

[8305]

Doesn’t have the handle to be a lead guard yet. Watching him go against #13 Illinois tonight and just owning it. The way he elevates reminds me of Victor Oladipo. Better scorer and shooter than Vic in college. Vic was a better defender. Vic level athlete that’s an efficient scorer, guys that would be drafted ahead of him would have to be pretty good.

[jman3134]

yeah, low release points used to bother me. not so much any more - guys get a lot of open looks and good players tend to figure it out. that said, i'm not sold on ivey. but i do agree that his upside is pretty special.

Low release point is not as concerning as it once was in the modern game with more open shots and the ability to shorten release timing. Not saying he won't tweak his shot a bit in the pros, but with a low release point, the fluidity of the shot and the speed of the shot will matter more. Not ideal - but it isn't a deal breaker.

[clyde21]

nothing is a dealbreaker for Ivey, he's a top5 or 7 guy, but this issue still exists: not a good enough shooter as a 2, not a good enough playmaker as a 1, so he's a combo guard that, outside of straight line athleticism, doesn't necessarily have any elite skills or traits.

unless you see him as a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA or eventually a guy that can legitimately be a primary or even secondary playmaker for you, I have a hard time seeing an argument for him over Bari, Chet or Paolo.

[The-Power]

I believe anyone who has Ivey high sees him as a secondary playmaker down the road. He's not a PG, but obviously he'll create a lot for your team or else he's not worth a top pick.

Ivey's path is actually pretty clear compared to most other top prospects. He'll follow the footsteps of Booker, Beal, LaVine, Mitchell, or, if you want to go further back to a very high-end outcome, Wade. Maybe shades of a young Jimmy Butler. None of them are PGs. None of them are Forwards. Besides LaVine (and earlier versions of Beal), none of them are 40% 3pt shooters. Yet all of them have/had success in the NBA.

Of course, he'll do it in somewhat different ways – none of those guys are the same. But all of them have had success as primary scorers and secondary playmakers in the NBA, which is exactly what you'd expect of Ivey if you draft him high.

[clyde21]

I believe anyone who has Ivey high sees him as a secondary playmaker down the road. He's not a PG, but obviously he'll create a lot for your team or else he's not worth a top pick.

Ivey's path is actually pretty clear compared to most other top prospects. He'll follow the footsteps of Booker, Beal, LaVine, Mitchell, or, if you want to go further back to a very high-end outcome, Wade. Maybe shades of a young Jimmy Butler. None of them are PGs. None of them are Forwards. Besides LaVine (and earlier versions of Beal), none of them are 40% 3pt shooters. Yet all of them have/had success in the NBA.

Of course, he'll do it in somewhat different ways – none of those guys are the same. But all of them have had success as primary scorers and secondary playmakers in the NBA, which is exactly what you'd expect of Ivey if you draft him high.

you're looking at best case scenarios for all of those players though, Booker turned out to be an elite shot maker/scorer, LaVine developed way more as a playmaker than anyone thought was coming, and if a guy like Beal is the highest end outcome, well we can see what kinda of impact he's having on winning.

again, I like Ivey and have him 5th overall currently, but you just cannot take him over Bari, Chet or Paolo, even IF you think he's more likely to reach his high end outcome than these guys.

i think Mitchell is probably the best analog i like for Ivey.

[The-Power]

I believe anyone who has Ivey high sees him as a secondary playmaker down the road. He's not a PG, but obviously he'll create a lot for your team or else he's not worth a top pick.

Ivey's path is actually pretty clear compared to most other top prospects. He'll follow the footsteps of Booker, Beal, LaVine, Mitchell, or, if you want to go further back to a very high-end outcome, Wade. Maybe shades of a young Jimmy Butler. None of them are PGs. None of them are Forwards. Besides LaVine (and earlier versions of Beal), none of them are 40% 3pt shooters. Yet all of them have/had success in the NBA.

Of course, he'll do it in somewhat different ways – none of those guys are the same. But all of them have had success as primary scorers and secondary playmakers in the NBA, which is exactly what you'd expect of Ivey if you draft him high.

you're looking at best case scenarios for all of those players though, Booker turned out to be an elite shot maker/scorer, LaVine developed way more as a playmaker than anyone thought was coming, and if a guy like Beal is the highest end outcome, well we can see what kinda of impact he's having on winning.

again, I like Ivey and have him 5th overall currently, but you just cannot take him over Bari, Chet or Paolo, even IF you think he's more likely to reach his high end outcome than these guys.

i think Mitchell is probably the best analog i like for Ivey.

I don't think these are best-case scenarios for him (that would be someone like Wade in terms of impact) although they certainly are higher-end outcomes (these are all All-Stars, after all, nothing we can just assume for any but perhaps the absolute top-tier of prospects which this draft lacks anyway).

But my point was not about the players per se, but about the question of his path. You pointed to the issue of what if he's a Guard that is neither a PG nor a high-level 3pt shooter, and I just pointed to at least four current All-Stars who fit that mold. So there's a pretty good set of players to look at what path Ivey could follow (i.e. primary scorer, secondary playmaker).

Of course Ivey is going to have to pursue his own unique path. I don't think he's going to be the shot maker that Booker is, or the shooter that LaVine is – but he has other things going for him compared the guys mentioned above (explosion, size, defense – depending on who you compare him to, none of them have all of that).

Also, none of the guys you just mentioned have inherently easier paths to stardom, imo. You're banking on high-end outcomes for any single one of them if you look for a franchise player. I really don't see how you have to have them ahead of Ivey; especially when you yourself have Ivey 5th. It's not like there's some can't-miss prospect in this draft that renders the gap between a top 3 and the 5th pick dramatically big to essentially not even endorse the idea that someone else might reasonably have that prospect a bit higher or the others a bit lower.

We're all projecting here, and I honestly have an easier time imagining Ivey as a franchise player than any of the other players (even if some of them might end up being better because they develop disproportionally).

[clyde21]

I believe anyone who has Ivey high sees him as a secondary playmaker down the road. He's not a PG, but obviously he'll create a lot for your team or else he's not worth a top pick.

Ivey's path is actually pretty clear compared to most other top prospects. He'll follow the footsteps of Booker, Beal, LaVine, Mitchell, or, if you want to go further back to a very high-end outcome, Wade. Maybe shades of a young Jimmy Butler. None of them are PGs. None of them are Forwards. Besides LaVine (and earlier versions of Beal), none of them are 40% 3pt shooters. Yet all of them have/had success in the NBA.

Of course, he'll do it in somewhat different ways – none of those guys are the same. But all of them have had success as primary scorers and secondary playmakers in the NBA, which is exactly what you'd expect of Ivey if you draft him high.

you're looking at best case scenarios for all of those players though, Booker turned out to be an elite shot maker/scorer, LaVine developed way more as a playmaker than anyone thought was coming, and if a guy like Beal is the highest end outcome, well we can see what kinda of impact he's having on winning.

again, I like Ivey and have him 5th overall currently, but you just cannot take him over Bari, Chet or Paolo, even IF you think he's more likely to reach his high end outcome than these guys.

i think Mitchell is probably the best analog i like for Ivey.

I don't think these are best-case scenarios for him (that would be someone like Wade in terms of impact) although they certainly are higher-end outcomes (these are all All-Stars, after all, nothing we can just assume for any but perhaps the absolute top-tier of prospects which this draft lacks anyway).

But my point was not about the players per se, but about the question of his path. You pointed to the issue of what if he's a Guard that is neither a PG nor a high-level 3pt shooter, and I just pointed to at least four current All-Stars who fit that mold. So there's a pretty good set of players to look at what path Ivey could follow (i.e. primary scorer, secondary playmaker).

Of course Ivey is going to have to pursue his own unique path. I don't think he's going to be the shot maker that Booker is, or the shooter that LaVine is – but he has other things going for him compared the guys mentioned above (explosion, size, defense – depending on who you compare him to, none of them have all of that).

Also, none of the guys you just mentioned have inherently easier paths to stardom, imo. You're banking on high-end outcomes for any single one of them if you look for a franchise player. I really don't see how you have to have them ahead of Ivey; especially when you yourself have Ivey 5th. It's not like there's some can't-miss prospect in this draft that renders the gap between a top 3 and the 5th pick dramatically big to essentially not even endorse the idea that someone else might reasonably have that prospect a bit higher or the others a bit lower.

We're all projecting here, and I honestly have an easier time imagining Ivey as a franchise player than any of the other players (even if some of them might end up being better because they develop disproportionally).

yea but my point is those guys had to develop some serious skills to be that impactful - like LaVine has actually developed into a legitimate playmaker, Booker has developed into one of the best shot makers in the league, Butler's developmental path especially can't be projected on anyone else

not saying Ivey can't get there, if I had to bet yes or no i'd probably bet yes, he'll get there, but you're still projecting imo much more than you are with some of the other guys I have over him, especially if you start talking about him as a top3 pick.

[SeattleJazzFan]

sometimes ivey looks like the best player and the best prospect in college basketball. but there is too much inconsistency to his game that i can't trust him as a top 3 pick. only shooting 35% from three in conference play and there is something about his shooting stroke i just don't like.

top 5 maybe. no way i let him slip past 8 - just too dynamic and i love that he plays like he expects himself to be the best player on the floor every night - and that's while playing on the same team as edey and williams.

[Coeur]

you're looking at best case scenarios for all of those players though, Booker turned out to be an elite shot maker/scorer, LaVine developed way more as a playmaker than anyone thought was coming, and if a guy like Beal is the highest end outcome, well we can see what kinda of impact he's having on winning.

again, I like Ivey and have him 5th overall currently, but you just cannot take him over Bari, Chet or Paolo, even IF you think he's more likely to reach his high end outcome than these guys.

i think Mitchell is probably the best analog i like for Ivey.

I don't think these are best-case scenarios for him (that would be someone like Wade in terms of impact) although they certainly are higher-end outcomes (these are all All-Stars, after all, nothing we can just assume for any but perhaps the absolute top-tier of prospects which this draft lacks anyway).

But my point was not about the players per se, but about the question of his path. You pointed to the issue of what if he's a Guard that is neither a PG nor a high-level 3pt shooter, and I just pointed to at least four current All-Stars who fit that mold. So there's a pretty good set of players to look at what path Ivey could follow (i.e. primary scorer, secondary playmaker).

Of course Ivey is going to have to pursue his own unique path. I don't think he's going to be the shot maker that Booker is, or the shooter that LaVine is – but he has other things going for him compared the guys mentioned above (explosion, size, defense – depending on who you compare him to, none of them have all of that).

Also, none of the guys you just mentioned have inherently easier paths to stardom, imo. You're banking on high-end outcomes for any single one of them if you look for a franchise player. I really don't see how you have to have them ahead of Ivey; especially when you yourself have Ivey 5th. It's not like there's some can't-miss prospect in this draft that renders the gap between a top 3 and the 5th pick dramatically big to essentially not even endorse the idea that someone else might reasonably have that prospect a bit higher or the others a bit lower.

We're all projecting here, and I honestly have an easier time imagining Ivey as a franchise player than any of the other players (even if some of them might end up being better because they develop disproportionally).

yea but my point is those guys had to develop some serious skills to be that impactful - like LaVine has actually developed into a legitimate playmaker, Booker has developed into one of the best shot makers in the league, Butler's developmental path especially can't be projected on anyone else

not saying Ivey can't get there, if I had to bet yes or no i'd probably bet yes, he'll get there, but you're still projecting imo much more than you are with some of the other guys I have over him, especially if you start talking about him as a top3 pick.

And what was the very first position nba coaches tried Lavine at?


Same spot the nba team that takes Ivey is going to hope they can play him at

[SelfishPlayer]

Jaden Ivey looks like Russell Westbrook reloaded to me. He has so much speed and agression. Hopefully this time around the organization that drafts him focuses on a development path that is better for team success. He is required to engage in plenty of off ball movement, that's great. With the way the lead guard position is prized he may get drafted #1 overall. Positionally, I certainly would select him over the best power forward in a draft.

[Kobblehead]

I'm starting to cool on Ivey, a tad.

I don't like the jumper right now. Since conference play rolled around, he's shooting at Westbrook percentages.

Also, where is the defensive impact and facilitating? I feel like he hasn't made enough improvement in those areas from freshman to sophomore year.

Right now, he just seems like an ultra athletic shotcreator with a willing, but inaccurate shooting stroke.

[Ruzious]

I'm starting to cool on Ivey, a tad.

I don't like the jumper right now. Since conference play rolled around, he's shooting at Westbrook percentages.

Also, where is the defensive impact and facilitating? I feel like he hasn't made enough improvement in those areas from freshman to sophomore year.

Right now, he just seems like an ultra athletic shotcreator with a willing, but inaccurate shooting stroke.

4 for 29 from 3 in his last 6 games and 0 for 10 in his last 2. Still, he's made 36.9% for the season. He hasn't done as well overall as I expected, but I'm still a big believer in his potential.

[clyde21]

I'm starting to cool on Ivey, a tad.

I don't like the jumper right now. Since conference play rolled around, he's shooting at Westbrook percentages.

Also, where is the defensive impact and facilitating? I feel like he hasn't made enough improvement in those areas from freshman to sophomore year.

Right now, he just seems like an ultra athletic shotcreator with a willing, but inaccurate shooting stroke.

4 for 29 from 3 in his last 6 games and 0 for 10 in his last 2. Still, he's made 36.9% for the season. He hasn't done as well overall as I expected, but I'm still a big believer in his potential.

29% in conference

Ivey's always been a top 5-7 guy, that 1st overall or even top 3 imo was always way too rich.

[SelfishPlayer]

Winning an NBA championship doesn't require that your best player be a 40% or greater three point shooter throughout the postseason. In fact most NBA champions do not have a single starter shooting 40% or greater during the championship run. Jaden is going to destroy a lot of defenses for a long time.

[The-Power]

Those who have Ivey in the top tier of prospects have him there because (I'd think) they believe his athleticism not only translates but shines even more through in the NBA with more spacing. Purdue really is a bad team for him to showcase his upside consistently because they play 40 MPG with low-post Centers that can't shoot but are good enough in college to warrant plenty of touches.

Because that remains true, I don't see a reason to drop him at this point. We won't see whether the believers in Ivey are right or wrong until he hits an NBA court and plays with NBA spacing as well as in a modern perimeter-oriented NBA offense. Him shooting poorly as of late isn't ideal but this college season isn't going to determine whether he'll become a consistent enough shooter down the road – regardless of whether he'll get hot again or remains cold. That'll remain to be seen until he enters his second or third NBA season.

[Nuntius]

I sure hope that Ivey doesn't go top 3. I'd love him on my Pacers. Ivey next to Haliburton? Yes, please!

[The Moose]

who was a better prospect coming into the draft, Collin Sexton or Jaden Ivey?

both are undersized 2's/combo guards, without a great jumpshot, fairly average playmakers, but with outlier speed, play a million miles an hour and constantly attack and put pressure on the rim. Reading through their scouting reports pre draft, they sound very similar.

[The-Power]

who was a better prospect coming into the draft, Collin Sexton or Jaden Ivey?

both are undersized 2's/combo guards, without a great jumpshot, fairly average playmakers, but with outlier speed, play a million miles an hour and constantly attack and put pressure on the rim. Reading through their scouting reports pre draft, they sound very similar.

I usually hate this kind of statement but to me it's Ivey and not close. Ivey is bigger, a better athlete, a better defender and in my opinion plays a style that is more conducive to winning. Also, I'd strongly disagree with the labeling of both as undersized 2s. Ivey has solid size for a Guard, Sexton was small even by PG standards.

As a result, I've been comparatively low on Sexton out of the draft, and comparatively high on Ivey relative to general consensus.

[jman3134]

How far can Jaden Ivey's stock rise? He has been on an absolute tear in the tournament. St Peter's should be an interesting matchup for him. Those boys are tough as nails as well.

[The-Power]

Here's more discussion on Ivey: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2141115