2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas

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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#61 » by BostonCouchGM » Fri Jul 8, 2022 7:15 am

jman3134 wrote:That's because he isn't in the game. Looks like he hurt his rib.


He looked like he belonged while in there. He took and made a pretty impressive turnaround J on the baseline that not many players in the NBA can make. It was high level stuff. He looked good creating space to get three pointers off but justifiably missed. He moved around the court well and blocked a shot (was called a goaltending) so he's willing to be a help defender. What I was worried about, his "too cool for school" demeanor and whether he has a killer mentality showed however. He had a little shoulder stinger while playing defense and chose to let himself be sat the rest of the game. I really don't think he has much heart or loves the game. If you choose to sit out instead of playing basketball for an entire season despite being healthy, when you're 18/19 y/o you can't really love basketball. That's some Ben Simmons type behavior and mentality. He has #1 talent but a 2nd round head. Hopefully I'm wrong about that but it's what I see currently. I think if he does develop into a star he won't stay in POR. I'm actually surprised he allowed himself to be drafted by them. I think if he had the leverage he might have had had he played, he wouldn't have, but since he has zero tape he had to take what he could get and worry about that later.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#62 » by jman3134 » Fri Jul 8, 2022 8:35 am

That's not what happened. He was yelling at the training staff to let him back in the game, but they sat him. It very well could have been a shoulder stinger, but they were checking his chest too for some reason.

It wasn't enough of a sample size.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#63 » by jman3134 » Fri Jul 8, 2022 8:51 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
jman3134 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I know its just 1 game, but I really dont get how anyone could have watched Ivey in college and then in this game and think he is the next Ja and should play PG. He really has no facilitating skills to speak of.

Which is why I think going to Detroit was one of the best places for him to land. There is no way Detroit will try and hand him the offense over Cade. Since he gets to play next to Cade, he will get to be the secondary ball handler and focus on his scoring and not have to worry about trying to get others involved.


I disagree. He makes the right pass more often than not, but he gets up in the air far too frequently and doesn't pass people open like Ja. He's no Ja Morant. The comparison was always on burst and raw athleticism. Both shoot set shots and aren't great shooters. They're very different defensively, and Ivey does not have the same vision or IQ.

He sat out what felt like an eternity. But, this whole game feels like that.


He was the lead ball handler for Purdue and he averaged 2.9 assists per game this past year in conference play. The only reason he gets assists is because of how much he has the ball in his hands. How often he is out of control, gets caught up in the air, and just how often he is sped up. There is just no floor general aspect to his game at all.

Also dont get me wrong, this isnt me hating on Ivey. Ive been high on him for a very long time, I had him top 5 on my very first board for this year's class and he never really left my top 5. But trying to have him play PG is just trying to force a square peg in a round hole. Its not his game. He is just a flat out scorer. That is why I think him in Detroit is a great place for him. He's never going to be asked to be the primary facilitator. He gets to most likely be the secondary ball handler and gets to focus on just getting his own. That is what he is best at.


In the scouting report I did of Ivey before he broke out in the NCAA tournament his freshman year, I pulled together about 5 passing clips towards the very end. http://jtmbasketball.blogspot.com/2021/03/one-and-done-case-for-jaden-iveys.html

At least two of those were very solid passes. I don't think his issue is an inability or unwillingness to find teammates. He does facilitate for them. The issue is moreso his technique while facilitating. As you said, he jumps in the air giving up his dribble. He needs to learn how to play off two feet.

The shooting stroke is still very much a work in progress to put it kindly. I was not impressed by his performance tonight, though he got to the basket and flashed his athleticism. He started out with a flashy lob pass, but forced a few threes and did not play under control. Whether he is a traditional point guard, a shooting guard, or a hybrid, I just know that he is a basketball player with the ability to operate in P&R. In terms of someone who settles in the offense, it is true that Jaden needs to play more under control.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#64 » by MavfanAus » Fri Jul 8, 2022 12:32 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:I know its just 1 game, but I really dont get how anyone could have watched Ivey in college and then in this game and think he is the next Ja and should play PG. He really has no facilitating skills to speak of.

Which is why I think going to Detroit was one of the best places for him to land. There is no way Detroit will try and hand him the offense over Cade. Since he gets to play next to Cade, he will get to be the secondary ball handler and focus on his scoring and not have to worry about trying to get others involved.


I think the comparisons between the two are specifically based around speed and athletic ability. Morant is a much much better facilitator and playmaker.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#65 » by toooskies » Fri Jul 8, 2022 1:47 pm

MavfanAus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I know its just 1 game, but I really dont get how anyone could have watched Ivey in college and then in this game and think he is the next Ja and should play PG. He really has no facilitating skills to speak of.

Which is why I think going to Detroit was one of the best places for him to land. There is no way Detroit will try and hand him the offense over Cade. Since he gets to play next to Cade, he will get to be the secondary ball handler and focus on his scoring and not have to worry about trying to get others involved.


I think the comparisons between the two are specifically based around speed and athletic ability. Morant is a much much better facilitator and playmaker.

If you take away Morant's facilitating and playmaking, what does that leave you with? A taller Collin Sexton?
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#66 » by yoyoboy » Fri Jul 8, 2022 2:08 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I know its just 1 game, but I really dont get how anyone could have watched Ivey in college and then in this game and think he is the next Ja and should play PG. He really has no facilitating skills to speak of.

Which is why I think going to Detroit was one of the best places for him to land. There is no way Detroit will try and hand him the offense over Cade. Since he gets to play next to Cade, he will get to be the secondary ball handler and focus on his scoring and not have to worry about trying to get others involved.


he is without a doubt a PG at the next level. He can't play off ball. Which is why you're dead wrong about the Pistons being a great landing place. It might be one of THE worst tbh. Yes he had turnovers. But he's a 19 y/o playing in the NBA for the first time. Same thing happens to literally every 19 y/o guard. Cade was 7th in the entire league as a rookie in turnovers. I don't remember you or anyone else saying before last season that he shouldn't play PG nor at any time during the season or even now despite that. Ivey clearly needs to work on his handle and playmaking as any young guard in NBA history has had to do. That hopefully comes in time. What you DON'T do is give up on him being a PG because he has the elite first step needed to break pretty much everyone down in ISO and when you factor in working off PnR he's going to be a problem teams will have to account for. More so than Cade tbh. DET is kinda dumb. They have three guys in Hayes, Ivey and Cade who have to play with the ball in their hands to be effective and none of them can play off ball at all nearly as well or sufficiently. It's great that they're all talented but it's God awful roster construction. DET will remain one of the worst teams in the league because of this and their awful head coach who can't develop young talent. I know they have a lot of talent but it isn't enough. It has to compliment each other and in DET it doesn't.

Couldn’t be further from the truth. Lot of people said that actually, myself included. I’m still skeptical of Cade as a full time point going forward to be honest.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#67 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Jul 8, 2022 3:51 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
jman3134 wrote:That's because he isn't in the game. Looks like he hurt his rib.


He looked like he belonged while in there. He took and made a pretty impressive turnaround J on the baseline that not many players in the NBA can make. It was high level stuff. He looked good creating space to get three pointers off but justifiably missed. He moved around the court well and blocked a shot (was called a goaltending) so he's willing to be a help defender. What I was worried about, his "too cool for school" demeanor and whether he has a killer mentality showed however. He had a little shoulder stinger while playing defense and chose to let himself be sat the rest of the game. I really don't think he has much heart or loves the game. If you choose to sit out instead of playing basketball for an entire season despite being healthy, when you're 18/19 y/o you can't really love basketball. That's some Ben Simmons type behavior and mentality. He has #1 talent but a 2nd round head. Hopefully I'm wrong about that but it's what I see currently. I think if he does develop into a star he won't stay in POR. I'm actually surprised he allowed himself to be drafted by them. I think if he had the leverage he might have had had he played, he wouldn't have, but since he has zero tape he had to take what he could get and worry about that later.


Portland is a great landing spot for Sharpe. He seems like a youngster that needs a bit of direction, vets like Dame and Nurkic are going to do him good.

I do worry about his demeanor, there is smooth / effortless and there is Sharpe.

But that turnaround and the explosion he showed on that goaltend were promising. Way too little to judge him off, he looked selfish basically shooting every time he got the ball and is going to struggle with defensive IQ but he has immense natural talents.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#68 » by clyde21 » Fri Jul 8, 2022 4:42 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I know its just 1 game, but I really dont get how anyone could have watched Ivey in college and then in this game and think he is the next Ja and should play PG. He really has no facilitating skills to speak of.

Which is why I think going to Detroit was one of the best places for him to land. There is no way Detroit will try and hand him the offense over Cade. Since he gets to play next to Cade, he will get to be the secondary ball handler and focus on his scoring and not have to worry about trying to get others involved.


he is without a doubt a PG at the next level. He can't play off ball.


if Ivey cannot play off-ball either then consider it a dead pick.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#69 » by clyde21 » Fri Jul 8, 2022 4:43 pm

MavfanAus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I know its just 1 game, but I really dont get how anyone could have watched Ivey in college and then in this game and think he is the next Ja and should play PG. He really has no facilitating skills to speak of.

Which is why I think going to Detroit was one of the best places for him to land. There is no way Detroit will try and hand him the offense over Cade. Since he gets to play next to Cade, he will get to be the secondary ball handler and focus on his scoring and not have to worry about trying to get others involved.


I think the comparisons between the two are specifically based around speed and athletic ability. Morant is a much much better facilitator and playmaker.


that's why it's a terrible comp. it has nothing to do with their games/archetypes.

also Ivey doesn't have Ja's hang time either, if we're just focusing on physical profile aspect. athletically I think Ivey is closer to someone like Fox imo.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#70 » by SelfishPlayer » Fri Jul 8, 2022 6:11 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
jman3134 wrote:That's because he isn't in the game. Looks like he hurt his rib.


He looked like he belonged while in there. He took and made a pretty impressive turnaround J on the baseline that not many players in the NBA can make. It was high level stuff. He looked good creating space to get three pointers off but justifiably missed. He moved around the court well and blocked a shot (was called a goaltending) so he's willing to be a help defender. What I was worried about, his "too cool for school" demeanor and whether he has a killer mentality showed however. He had a little shoulder stinger while playing defense and chose to let himself be sat the rest of the game. I really don't think he has much heart or loves the game. If you choose to sit out instead of playing basketball for an entire season despite being healthy, when you're 18/19 y/o you can't really love basketball. That's some Ben Simmons type behavior and mentality. He has #1 talent but a 2nd round head. Hopefully I'm wrong about that but it's what I see currently. I think if he does develop into a star he won't stay in POR. I'm actually surprised he allowed himself to be drafted by them. I think if he had the leverage he might have had had he played, he wouldn't have, but since he has zero tape he had to take what he could get and worry about that later.


Portland is a great landing spot for Sharpe. He seems like a youngster that needs a bit of direction, vets like Dame and Nurkic are going to do him good.

I do worry about his demeanor, there is smooth / effortless and there is Sharpe.

But that turnaround and the explosion he showed on that goaltend were promising. Way too little to judge him off, he looked selfish basically shooting every time he got the ball and is going to struggle with defensive IQ but he has immense natural talents.


Gerald Green...
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#71 » by BlazersBroncos » Fri Jul 8, 2022 6:38 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
He looked like he belonged while in there. He took and made a pretty impressive turnaround J on the baseline that not many players in the NBA can make. It was high level stuff. He looked good creating space to get three pointers off but justifiably missed. He moved around the court well and blocked a shot (was called a goaltending) so he's willing to be a help defender. What I was worried about, his "too cool for school" demeanor and whether he has a killer mentality showed however. He had a little shoulder stinger while playing defense and chose to let himself be sat the rest of the game. I really don't think he has much heart or loves the game. If you choose to sit out instead of playing basketball for an entire season despite being healthy, when you're 18/19 y/o you can't really love basketball. That's some Ben Simmons type behavior and mentality. He has #1 talent but a 2nd round head. Hopefully I'm wrong about that but it's what I see currently. I think if he does develop into a star he won't stay in POR. I'm actually surprised he allowed himself to be drafted by them. I think if he had the leverage he might have had had he played, he wouldn't have, but since he has zero tape he had to take what he could get and worry about that later.


Portland is a great landing spot for Sharpe. He seems like a youngster that needs a bit of direction, vets like Dame and Nurkic are going to do him good.

I do worry about his demeanor, there is smooth / effortless and there is Sharpe.

But that turnaround and the explosion he showed on that goaltend were promising. Way too little to judge him off, he looked selfish basically shooting every time he got the ball and is going to struggle with defensive IQ but he has immense natural talents.


Gerald Green...


Way too early - but if he doesnt mature and grow I can see that.

Jalen Green still has GG potential as well if he doesnt grow with decision making and team BBall - physically JG is closer to GG than Sharpe, Shadeon is built totally different.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#72 » by SelfishPlayer » Fri Jul 8, 2022 6:45 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:
Portland is a great landing spot for Sharpe. He seems like a youngster that needs a bit of direction, vets like Dame and Nurkic are going to do him good.

I do worry about his demeanor, there is smooth / effortless and there is Sharpe.

But that turnaround and the explosion he showed on that goaltend were promising. Way too little to judge him off, he looked selfish basically shooting every time he got the ball and is going to struggle with defensive IQ but he has immense natural talents.


Gerald Green...


Way too early - but if he doesnt mature and grow I can see that.

Jalen Green still has GG potential as well if he doesnt grow with decision making and team BBall - physically JG is closer to GG than Sharpe, Shadeon is built totally different.


Gerald Green suffered from the same gunner mentality entering the NBA. Sharpe hasn't proven to an absolute gunner yet.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#73 » by Upperclass » Fri Jul 8, 2022 10:16 pm

Hardy reminds me of a better shooting Malik Newman or Josh Selby.. not much burst off the bounce, but has bounce, can shoot, can score.. maybe their Seth Curry replacement that they shouldnt have traded a few years back
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#74 » by clyde21 » Fri Jul 8, 2022 11:13 pm

Days is such a good find by the Spurs, one of my sleepers, think he'll be rotational guy at some point

also...Preem...look out.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#75 » by Big J » Sat Jul 9, 2022 12:47 am

Can we get Mac McDung off the **** floor? This dude is chucking like hell trying to impress someone. He needs to know his place.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#76 » by Big J » Sat Jul 9, 2022 1:13 am

Beauchamp was 3-6 from 3 today. If this guy has a 3 pointer he could legit become a superstar. I've been saying this for months with this kid. I'm this dude's biggest Stan.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#77 » by azcatz11 » Sat Jul 9, 2022 1:44 am

Upperclass wrote:Hardy reminds me of a better shooting Malik Newman or Josh Selby.. not much burst off the bounce, but has bounce, can shoot, can score.. maybe their Seth Curry replacement that they shouldnt have traded a few years back


I don't know...I'm getting Dion Waiters vibes from him. He looked really small out there. Seems like his upside is 7th or 8th guy off the bench.
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#78 » by Big J » Sat Jul 9, 2022 1:50 am

azcatz11 wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Hardy reminds me of a better shooting Malik Newman or Josh Selby.. not much burst off the bounce, but has bounce, can shoot, can score.. maybe their Seth Curry replacement that they shouldnt have traded a few years back


I don't know...I'm getting Dion Waiters vibes from him. He looked really small out there. Seems like his upside is 7th or 8th guy off the bench.


So... like a Dinwiddie type then?
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#79 » by clyde21 » Sat Jul 9, 2022 3:58 am

Josh Minott athleticism translating
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Re: 2022 Summer League: Cali Classic, Utah and Vegas 

Post#80 » by bucknut » Sat Jul 9, 2022 7:31 am

clyde21 wrote:Josh Minott athleticism translating


on a podcast the former memphis gm that works for espn (chad ford i think) said minott was in his top 12 overall big board pre draft

His defense is elite and if he can score

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