Kon Knueppel

[greg4012]

He plays like Khris Middleton to me.

Me & a poster on the Bucks' board I think independently both compared him to Middleton. Not the prime version, or this year's, but like other later seasons. He was still a very good player, capable of rising to the moment, especially in a halfcourt game.

Kon has risen to the moment in the NCAA tourney and conference w/out Coop, being named outstanding player. Showed he can scale up his playmaking. I think he can be a 3rd banana/floor spacer on a contender, maybe 2nd banana next to a superstar like Giannis/Flagg.

He's an elite shooter w/ triple threat ability. Has a surprising 1st step, uses his strong body to stay by you, finish inside w/ contact, & utilizes fakes to get his shot off. If there's an open man, he's probably going to find you. High-level I.Q. & vision.

And I think his d is OK. Outside injury aggravations, Middleton adapted to stay in front of guys usually, w/ anticipation. If he got near you, he could use his strength, like Kon. Smart off ball, rotating & in passing lanes. Probably a good starter, not sure if ever all-star, but a winner.

I can see a Middleton game on offense. I expect him to have a lot less length than Middleton and not be near the level of NBA defender tho.

An old school comp I can see is Thunder Dan Majerle.

Watch on YouTube

[Upperclass]

He plays like Khris Middleton to me.

Me & a poster on the Bucks' board I think independently both compared him to Middleton. Not the prime version, or this year's, but like other later seasons. He was still a very good player, capable of rising to the moment, especially in a halfcourt game.

Kon has risen to the moment in the NCAA tourney and conference w/out Coop, being named outstanding player. Showed he can scale up his playmaking. I think he can be a 3rd banana/floor spacer on a contender, maybe 2nd banana next to a superstar like Giannis/Flagg.

He's an elite shooter w/ triple threat ability. Has a surprising 1st step, uses his strong body to stay by you, finish inside w/ contact, & utilizes fakes to get his shot off. If there's an open man, he's probably going to find you. High-level I.Q. & vision.

And I think his d is OK. Outside injury aggravations, Middleton adapted to stay in front of guys usually, w/ anticipation. If he got near you, he could use his strength, like Kon. Smart off ball, rotating & in passing lanes. Probably a good starter, not sure if ever all-star, but a winner.

I can see a Middleton game on offense. I expect him to have a lot less length than Middleton and not be near the level of NBA defender tho.

An old school comp I can see is Thunder Dan Majerle.

Watch on YouTube

Thank you for displaying to all your implicit lack of understanding.

You call the player unathletic and then proceed to comp him to one of the most athletic wings of the 90s. Logical.

[JMAC3]

You may want to check how many Dunks Luka has.. Demar.. Harden.. Dillon Brooks.. Josh Giddey.. Taurean Prince. Dunks are an indicator of leaping ability not functional athleticism. Conversely Risacher graded out as one of the worst athletes in the '24 draft and has a ton of dunks.

Here is a list of ALL of the college players drafted in round 1 since 2008 that have had 3 dunks or less in a college season despite being at least 6'4:

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minGP=15&minht=76&minpick=30&mindunkmade=3&year=all&start=-11101&end=all0501&dunkmadeSelect=-1&pickSelect=-1

Like it or not, dunks in college are a great indicator of athleticism translating to the NBA level. It speaks to upside.

I think Kon's upside case is to become a player like Desmond Bane. Kon has a great floor IMO, but capped upside (Bane would be a great outcome).

And if you extend the list.. Theres a Christian Braun season in there, Khris Middleton, Spencer Dinwiddie, Austin Reaves, Malcolm Brogdon, Jordan Clarkson, Andrew Nembhard.. Tre Mann. And if you expand it to 4 dunks, theres a D'Angelo Russell, Tyler Herro. And Steph Curry is in there somewhere only having 2-3 career college dunks.

Raw Athleticism is not the same as functional Athleticism.

Free free to also stat out the elite college dunkers who went on to do absolutely nothing at the NBA level.

I mean for one, the og poster of data was already giving Kon the benefit of the doubt by making it 3 dunks (kon has 2).
Also, he made it 6-4 for height, not 6-7.

If you keep extending it further and further by adding an inch or a few dunks here and there then yeah there will be more players.

[JMAC3]

Luka had only 2 dunks last year, as an MVP candidate & NBA finalist. Maybe that's why they traded him. Makes as much sense as anything.

Most NBA players are going to dunk the most when they are in their first 2-3 seasons. Luka had 25 dunks as a rookie, he has already shown he possessed the athleticism. Luka having low dunks 7 years into his career is pretty normal- as most guys are going to slowly decline - of course some outliers for the really elite athletes who see a slower fall off.

[JMAC3]

I mean I hate to do the obvious, but I really don't see much that separates him from Luke Kennard as a prospect. Similar builds, similar strengths, similar role with a lot of the same lack of athleticism, defensive tools.

Kennard went 12th still, which I think is a decent range for Kneuppel.

[greg4012]

Me & a poster on the Bucks' board I think independently both compared him to Middleton. Not the prime version, or this year's, but like other later seasons. He was still a very good player, capable of rising to the moment, especially in a halfcourt game.

Kon has risen to the moment in the NCAA tourney and conference w/out Coop, being named outstanding player. Showed he can scale up his playmaking. I think he can be a 3rd banana/floor spacer on a contender, maybe 2nd banana next to a superstar like Giannis/Flagg.

He's an elite shooter w/ triple threat ability. Has a surprising 1st step, uses his strong body to stay by you, finish inside w/ contact, & utilizes fakes to get his shot off. If there's an open man, he's probably going to find you. High-level I.Q. & vision.

And I think his d is OK. Outside injury aggravations, Middleton adapted to stay in front of guys usually, w/ anticipation. If he got near you, he could use his strength, like Kon. Smart off ball, rotating & in passing lanes. Probably a good starter, not sure if ever all-star, but a winner.

I can see a Middleton game on offense. I expect him to have a lot less length than Middleton and not be near the level of NBA defender tho.

An old school comp I can see is Thunder Dan Majerle.

Watch on YouTube

Thank you for displaying to all your implicit lack of understanding.

You call the player unathletic and then proceed to comp him to one of the most athletic wings of the 90s. Logical.

Definitely was not that LMAO. But I agree he was more athletic and better defensively than Kon. Trying to give the hype beasts some benefit of the doubt.

I see I've struck a nerve or two.

[Bernman]

Luka had only 2 dunks last year, as an MVP candidate & NBA finalist. Maybe that's why they traded him. Makes as much sense as anything.

Most NBA players are going to dunk the most when they are in their first 2-3 seasons. Luka had 25 dunks as a rookie, he has already shown he possessed the athleticism. Luka having low dunks 7 years into his career is pretty normal- as most guys are going to slowly decline - of course some outliers for the really elite athletes who see a slower fall off.

The point is they can still be effective, even to the level of being an MVP candidate. The same goes for Nash and Curry.

The retort is "those guys are listed discernibly shorter". Well, I suspect he's not 6'7 in the pros, but that's a double-edged sword. Actually you'd prefer he'd be bigger to shoot over guys, after using his strength for some separation, whether he can dunk a lot or not.

If he knew the objective was to dunk, he'd have thrown a few more down this yr. But they give the same amount of pts for other shots, actually more for 3s. Overall he has a ts % of 64. That's awesome. He has more win shares than all the guys who topped the hyped '14 draft class, fwiw.

I mean I hate to do the obvious, but I really don't see much that separates him from Luke Kennard as a prospect. Similar builds, similar strengths, similar role with a lot of the same lack of athleticism, defensive tools.

Kennard went 12th still, which I think is a decent range for Kneuppel.

They don't have similar builds. Knueppel is stronger. He's probably a little taller. That makes it easier to get his shot off and force a player back defensively if he gets there. There are also better instincts on d or to find the open man. Kon's had a significantly better assist rate as a frosh than Kennard had both seasons at Duke. Overall he's had a far better freshman yr, & it's even better than Kennard's soph season in ws/90.

[JMAC3]

Luka had only 2 dunks last year, as an MVP candidate & NBA finalist. Maybe that's why they traded him. Makes as much sense as anything.

Most NBA players are going to dunk the most when they are in their first 2-3 seasons. Luka had 25 dunks as a rookie, he has already shown he possessed the athleticism. Luka having low dunks 7 years into his career is pretty normal- as most guys are going to slowly decline - of course some outliers for the really elite athletes who see a slower fall off.

The point is they can still be effective, even to the level of being an MVP candidate. The same goes for Nash and Curry.

The retort is "those guys are listed discernibly shorter". Well, I suspect he's not 6'7 in the pros, but that's a double-edged sword. Actually you'd prefer he'd be bigger to shoot over guys, after using his strength for some separation, whether he can dunk a lot or not.

If he knew the objective was to dunk, he'd have thrown a few more down this yr. But they give the same amount of pts for other shots, actually more for 3s. Overall he has a ts % of 64. That's awesome. He has more win shares than all the guys who topped the hyped '14 draft class, fwiw.

I mean I hate to do the obvious, but I really don't see much that separates him from Luke Kennard as a prospect. Similar builds, similar strengths, similar role with a lot of the same lack of athleticism, defensive tools.

Kennard went 12th still, which I think is a decent range for Kneuppel.

They don't have similar builds. Knueppel is stronger. He's probably a little taller. That makes it easier to get his shot off and force a player back defensively if he gets there. There are also better instincts on d or to find the open man. Kon's had a significantly better assist rate as a frosh than Kennard had both seasons at Duke. Overall he's had a far better freshman yr, & it's even better than Kennard's soph season in ws/90.

The difference of a Nash or Curry is they aren't 6-7. Also, you are really leaning into trying to comp him to superstars Luka, Nash, Curry-- I mean come on man, you are doing yourself zero favors. Kneuppel is nothing like any of those players.

I mean if the argument is going to be well Luka isn't a super athlete so now any non-athlete can be Luka you are setting yourself up to be wrong a lot by trying to use an outlier as some new barometer.

He would dunk more if he wanted? Yes, him being 2/5 on dunk attempts is really selling me. He could have also made those 3 dunks he missed, but he is an unselfish guy and wanted his team to have more opportunities for offensive rebounds too.

[Bernman]

The difference of a Nash or Curry is they aren't 6-7. Also, you are really leaning into trying to comp him to superstars Luka, Nash, Curry-- I mean come on man, you are doing yourself zero favors. Kneuppel is nothing like any of those players.

I mean if the argument is going to be well Luka isn't a super athlete so now any non-athlete can be Luka you are setting yourself up to be wrong a lot by trying to use an outlier as some new barometer.

He would dunk more if he wanted? Yes, him being 2/5 on dunk attempts is really selling me. He could have also made those 3 dunks he missed, but he is an unselfish guy and wanted his team to have more opportunities for offensive rebounds too.

You're just making very bad arguments, and creating a damned if you do or don't situation. He comes back in the 6'5"s in the modern NBA listing, you say he's short for a 3. Tall is better, even if he's not a regular dunker.

And it's ironic that I point out players who were arguably the best in the NBA even, as failures by this metric, and that makes the implications not as good or worse for Knueppel. Obviously there's a lot of space between to be a good top 10 pick, if he's Middleton, Bane, Reaves, etc.

[greg4012]

Luka had only 2 dunks last year, as an MVP candidate & NBA finalist. Maybe that's why they traded him. Makes as much sense as anything.

Most NBA players are going to dunk the most when they are in their first 2-3 seasons. Luka had 25 dunks as a rookie, he has already shown he possessed the athleticism. Luka having low dunks 7 years into his career is pretty normal- as most guys are going to slowly decline - of course some outliers for the really elite athletes who see a slower fall off.

The point is they can still be effective, even to the level of being an MVP candidate. The same goes for Nash and Curry.

The retort is "those guys are listed discernibly shorter". Well, I suspect he's not 6'7 in the pros, but that's a double-edged sword. Actually you'd prefer he'd be bigger to shoot over guys, after using his strength for some separation, whether he can dunk a lot or not.

If he knew the objective was to dunk, he'd have thrown a few more down this yr. But they give the same amount of pts for other shots, actually more for 3s. Overall he has a ts % of 64. That's awesome. He has more win shares than all the guys who topped the hyped '14 draft class, fwiw.

I mean I hate to do the obvious, but I really don't see much that separates him from Luke Kennard as a prospect. Similar builds, similar strengths, similar role with a lot of the same lack of athleticism, defensive tools.

Kennard went 12th still, which I think is a decent range for Kneuppel.

They don't have similar builds. Knueppel is stronger. He's probably a little taller. That makes it easier to get his shot off and force a player back defensively if he gets there. There are also better instincts on d or to find the open man. Kon's had a significantly better assist rate as a frosh than Kennard had both seasons at Duke. Overall he's had a far better freshman yr, & it's even better than Kennard's soph season in ws/90.

Basically every shorter player mentioned that has low dunk numbers for position or mediocre athleticism for position are elite offensive engines that create offense/advantage for themselves and others at an elite rate. Is that what you think Kon is as a player??

Without the skillset of primary offensive creation, that makeup of player is mostly on the role player spectrum

[Upperclass]

Luka had only 2 dunks last year, as an MVP candidate & NBA finalist. Maybe that's why they traded him. Makes as much sense as anything.

Most NBA players are going to dunk the most when they are in their first 2-3 seasons. Luka had 25 dunks as a rookie, he has already shown he possessed the athleticism. Luka having low dunks 7 years into his career is pretty normal- as most guys are going to slowly decline - of course some outliers for the really elite athletes who see a slower fall off.

The point is they can still be effective, even to the level of being an MVP candidate. The same goes for Nash and Curry.

The retort is "those guys are listed discernibly shorter". Well, I suspect he's not 6'7 in the pros, but that's a double-edged sword. Actually you'd prefer he'd be bigger to shoot over guys, after using his strength for some separation, whether he can dunk a lot or not.

If he knew the objective was to dunk, he'd have thrown a few more down this yr. But they give the same amount of pts for other shots, actually more for 3s. Overall he has a ts % of 64. That's awesome. He has more win shares than all the guys who topped the hyped '14 draft class, fwiw.

I mean I hate to do the obvious, but I really don't see much that separates him from Luke Kennard as a prospect. Similar builds, similar strengths, similar role with a lot of the same lack of athleticism, defensive tools.

Kennard went 12th still, which I think is a decent range for Kneuppel.

They don't have similar builds. Knueppel is stronger. He's probably a little taller. That makes it easier to get his shot off and force a player back defensively if he gets there. There are also better instincts on d or to find the open man. Kon's had a significantly better assist rate as a frosh than Kennard had both seasons at Duke. Overall he's had a far better freshman yr, & it's even better than Kennard's soph season in ws/90.

Ball knower. Phenomenal post.

[EvanZ]

This entire exercise was a construct you all created. I didnt mention his height, dunking ability etc. I said his athletic traits are top tier in accompanyment of his skills. Together that will make him a top tier athlete in this draft. Not a run and jump one. Another likely top 5 pick of similar stature has a whopping 8 dunks as one of the highest usage players in college basketball.

What athletic traits if you're not talking about running and jumping? I mean bro those are literally all the Olympic track and field events.

[EvanZ]

Also, most of you guys don't seem to understand the point of me saying 6'7" guys usually have more than 2 dunks...it's because they simply do. Whereas 6'2" guards very often have very few or even no dunks and make it to the NBA. It's a signal as well as an indicator of athletic ability.

The taller you are the more dunks you should have. It's a very straightforward relationship. If we're talking about a guy who's 7' he should have very many more than 2 dunks. And there are dudes that tall who literally don't dunk in college and they will never be NBA players. Would you draft a 7-footer who only has 10 dunks in college?

Use your brains guys!

God, I remember people hyping up Hyun Jung Lee, 6'7" with 0 dunks. I told everyone he's just not an NBA player. It wasn't going to happen.

[mattg]

Also, most of you guys don't seem to understand the point of me saying 6'7" guys usually have more than 2 dunks...it's because they simply do. Whereas 6'2" guards very often have very few or even no dunks and make it to the NBA. It's a signal as well as an indicator of athletic ability.

The taller you are the more dunks you should have. It's a very straightforward relationship. If we're talking about a guy who's 7' he should have very many more than 2 dunks. And there are dudes that tall who literally don't dunk in college and they will never be NBA players. Would you draft a 7-footer who only has 10 dunks in college?

Use your brains guys!

God, I remember people hyping up Hyun Jung Lee, 6'7" with 0 dunks. I told everyone he's just not an NBA player. It wasn't going to happen.

I'd bet anything that Kon's going to measure 6'5 barefoot. He's been basically the same height since the end of his sophomore year of HS. I've watched him in Wisconsin his whole career, this 6'7 thing feels like Duke juicing heights. Just for what it's worth.

[tmorgan]

I mean I hate to do the obvious, but I really don't see much that separates him from Luke Kennard as a prospect. Similar builds, similar strengths, similar role with a lot of the same lack of athleticism, defensive tools.

Kennard went 12th still, which I think is a decent range for Kneuppel.

Yeah, but that requires a team to be as dumb as the SVG-led Pistons.

Kennard over Donovan Mitchell. 90% of our board was apoplectic.

[greg4012]

Also, most of you guys don't seem to understand the point of me saying 6'7" guys usually have more than 2 dunks...it's because they simply do. Whereas 6'2" guards very often have very few or even no dunks and make it to the NBA. It's a signal as well as an indicator of athletic ability.

The taller you are the more dunks you should have. It's a very straightforward relationship. If we're talking about a guy who's 7' he should have very many more than 2 dunks. And there are dudes that tall who literally don't dunk in college and they will never be NBA players. Would you draft a 7-footer who only has 10 dunks in college?

Use your brains guys!

God, I remember people hyping up Hyun Jung Lee, 6'7" with 0 dunks. I told everyone he's just not an NBA player. It wasn't going to happen.

I'd bet anything that Kon's going to measure 6'5 barefoot. He's been basically the same height since the end of his sophomore year of HS. I've watched him in Wisconsin his whole career, this 6'7 thing feels like Duke juicing heights. Just for what it's worth.

I expect this, as well. 6'5 with a neutral-ish wingspan. He still has some strength and bulk to have some wing appeal (and to exploit smaller guards defending him), but really we're looking at a static SG with slower feet and less burst than almost each of his NBA positional contemporaries. Still an excellent shooter. Still a great blend of skills with solid floor game. I don't see the floor game, handle, self-creation, creation for others to ramp up his skillset to a primary ballhandler.

Great floor. Limited ceiling. Desmond Bane is a very good NBA player. I expect Kon to be a good to very good NBA player, as well.

[MalonesElbows]

Kon's assist to turnover ratio makes him intriguing. NBA defenders will take away most of his easy buckets he gets in college from his size. For instance Doug McDermott could shoot the hell out of the ball but was a black hole with no passing skills. He more or less busted at draft slot #11.

[azcatz11]

Kon's assist to turnover ratio makes him intriguing. NBA defenders will take away most of his easy buckets he gets in college from his size. For instance Doug McDermott could shoot the hell out of the ball but was a black hole with no passing skills. He more or less busted at draft slot #11.

Kon gets wide open drives and looks pretty frequently. He's arguably the third option on that team and sometimes can be the 4th option.

When Flagg didn't play those 3 games in the tournament - he played even better which is interesting. I personally think he's at least 6'7 in shoes and looks physically imposing. He's a strong, strong bull

[Dat2U]

I feel like I'm watching Corey Kispert but with a little more juice. What position does he defend in the NBA? I see a guy that's going to be consistently targeted by opposing coaches.

[babyjax13]

I'll pile on with white shooter comps, but he has some of the same ball fakes into his shot as Bojan Bogdanovic, he is also physical at times like Bogey but otherwise has pretty bad physical tools. A little bit of ability to do some secondary creation and self creation when exploiting large advantages. I'm not sure how good a 6-5 Bogey is (if Kon isn't as tall as listed), but I'm willing to bet at least a really nice bench player.