Luka Doncic

[SportsGuy8]

Notice I said the cream of the crop in the power 5, not the NCAA in general.

A Game of 2 of any of the bluebloods is going to tell me more than any euroleague game.

Bennett beasted in college because he was more physically mature which serves my point.

And I said euroleague would beat bluebloods because they are more physically mature and play with more structure but bluebloods definitely have more length, speed, verticality. Europeans don't usually have plus wingspans.

Point being, Doncic has never been guarded by a Dearon Fox type talent, had to guard a Josh Jackson, or finish over a Justin Patton.

It's interesting how for the NCAA you say that only "the cream of the crop" matters, but when it comes to Doncic and Euroleague, you point out the situations where Doncic was up against someone with lesser athletic abilities. Why don't you use the same criteria for Euroleague then also and just take out the "cream of the crop" games? Why the double standards?

You're like the bible trumpers, only cherry-picking things that suit your narrative.

[reanimator]

Notice I said the cream of the crop in the power 5, not the NCAA in general.

A Game of 2 of any of the bluebloods is going to tell me more than any euroleague game.

Bennett beasted in college because he was more physically mature which serves my point.

And I said euroleague would beat bluebloods because they are more physically mature and play with more structure but bluebloods definitely have more length, speed, verticality. Europeans don't usually have plus wingspans.

Point being, Doncic has never been guarded by a Dearon Fox type talent, had to guard a Josh Jackson, or finish over a Justin Patton.

It's interesting how for the NCAA you say that only "the cream of the crop" matters, but when it comes to Doncic and Euroleague, you point out the situations where Doncic was up against someone with lesser athletic abilities. Why don't you use the same criteria for Euroleague then also and just take out the "cream of the crop" games? Why the double standards?

You're like the bible trumpers, only cherry-picking things that suit your narrative.

The cream of the crop of Euroleague still doesn't have any lottery type talent to assess Doncic against.

[SportsGuy8]

Saying that "There is not a single NCAA Division I team that would not go 0-30 in the EuroLeague regular season. And I am 100% positive of that." is neither objective, truthful, nor realistic.

It's one thing to say that you don't think any NCAA team would be able to get a win, but to be "100% positive of that"? I don't think you realize what kind of strength differential would warrant that ...

You're basically being the same as those Team USA fanboys that kept saying over the summer that there's no way any other team has a chance and that they're going to cruise through the whole tournament, with no chance of anyone beating them. Yes, they ended up undefeated, but that was after a few serious scares ...

Take any top 5 ranked NCAA DI team and list their roster. Then we can compare it to any roster of any one of the 16 EuroLeague teams. Anyone that thinks it will even be close either isn't being serious, or they don't have basic basketball knowledge.

And you don't seem to have basic MATH knowledge. You clearly don't know what "100%" means.

If a bottom Euroleague team was 99% to win each single game vs. an NCAA team, that would equal around a 74% chance of going 30-0 vs. them.
And with a 99.9% to win each single game, that would equal around 97% to go 30-0.
To actually achieve 99.5% to go 30-0 (to at least be able to round it up to your "100%"), each game would need to have probabilities of around 99.98% vs. 0.02% (even a bit worse actually). You really think an NCAA team wouldn't be able to win 1 game out of every 5000 tries vs. a bottom Euroleague team?

(I quickly did the math, I have no time to check it, but I think it should be correct)

Laso is the only EuroLeague coach that truly cares 0% about defense being played by his team.

Look like you also don't know what "0%" means ... Even D'Antoni cares more than 0% about defense.

[SportsGuy8]

The cream of the crop of Euroleague still doesn't have any lottery type talent to assess Doncic against.

Doncic is the one that actually played vs. a superstar in Westbrook.

A game vs. a true superstar is going to tell me more than any NCAA game. Games vs. the cream of the crop in whole of basketball is the one thing we can use to truly asses players.

What Fultz is doing is clearly completely irrelevant, since we don't have any games to assess him vs. actual superstars, so Fultz should in no way be mentioned as a prospect similar to Doncic.

See, we can easily play your game also. Right now I'm using the same type of ridiculous reasoning and "arguments" you're using.

[UcanUwill]

Any of that cream of the crop can easily turn into next Buddy Hield or Ben McLemore. College competition outside that cream of the crop is bad, it can make bad player look good. I mean if you truly have faith in those prospects and college competition in a whole, sure, those key match ups might tell you more. But you shouldn't discredit Euroleague match ups, Teodosic, De Colo, Heurtel, Langford, Goudelock and countless others. Doncic faces far better players on average.

OT. Can't believe Fenerbache lost, just snatched a lot of money from me, f***. Just wanted to share my pain lol.

[Sports Geek]

Any of that cream of the crop can easily turn into next Buddy Hield or Ben McLemore. College competition outside that cream of the crop is bad, it can make bad player look good. I mean if you truly have faith in those prospects and college competition in a whole, sure, those key match ups might tell you more. But you shouldn't discredit Euroleague match ups, Teodosic, De Colo, Heurtel, Langford, Goudelock and countless others. Doncic faces far better players on average.

OT. Can't believe Fenerbache lost, just snatched a lot of money from me, f***. Just wanted to share my pain lol.

Sorry, but this time your pain is my pleasure. Real Madrid is three wins ahead of them now.

PS: Sorry about your money loss though.

[Bob8]

Notice I said the cream of the crop in the power 5, not the NCAA in general.

A Game of 2 of any of the bluebloods is going to tell me more than any euroleague game.

Bennett beasted in college because he was more physically mature which serves my point.

And I said euroleague would beat bluebloods because they are more physically mature and play with more structure but bluebloods definitely have more length, speed, verticality. Europeans don't usually have plus wingspans.

Point being, Doncic has never been guarded by a Dearon Fox type talent, had to guard a Josh Jackson, or finish over a Justin Patton.

It's interesting how for the NCAA you say that only "the cream of the crop" matters, but when it comes to Doncic and Euroleague, you point out the situations where Doncic was up against someone with lesser athletic abilities. Why don't you use the same criteria for Euroleague then also and just take out the "cream of the crop" games? Why the double standards?

You're like the bible trumpers, only cherry-picking things that suit your narrative.

The cream of the crop of Euroleague still doesn't have any lottery type talent to assess Doncic against.

i guess Fultz&co. would be the best players in Euroleague, if they go tomorrow in Eurolegue? bunch of 18 years old school kids?

[reanimator]

It's interesting how for the NCAA you say that only "the cream of the crop" matters, but when it comes to Doncic and Euroleague, you point out the situations where Doncic was up against someone with lesser athletic abilities. Why don't you use the same criteria for Euroleague then also and just take out the "cream of the crop" games? Why the double standards?

You're like the bible trumpers, only cherry-picking things that suit your narrative.

The cream of the crop of Euroleague still doesn't have any lottery type talent to assess Doncic against.

i guess Fultz&co. would be the best players in Euroleague, if they go tomorrow in Eurolegue? bunch of 18 years old school kids?

I've already stated that Europeans play with great offensive structure and are physically mature. It is my belief that after a season of weight training, guys like Fultz and Ball would be some of the best players in Euroleague.

[reanimator]

The cream of the crop of Euroleague still doesn't have any lottery type talent to assess Doncic against.

Doncic is the one that actually played vs. a superstar in Westbrook.

A game vs. a true superstar is going to tell me more than any NCAA game. Games vs. the cream of the crop in whole of basketball is the one thing we can use to truly asses players.

What Fultz is doing is clearly completely irrelevant, since we don't have any games to assess him vs. actual superstars, so Fultz should in no way be mentioned as a prospect similar to Doncic.

See, we can easily play your game also. Right now I'm using the same type of ridiculous reasoning and "arguments" you're using.

And Doncic looked like a roleplayer against the Thunder so maybe GMs should not touch him until the end of the firsts round

[reanimator]

Any of that cream of the crop can easily turn into next Buddy Hield or Ben McLemore. College competition outside that cream of the crop is bad, it can make bad player look good. I mean if you truly have faith in those prospects and college competition in a whole, sure, those key match ups might tell you more. But you shouldn't discredit Euroleague match ups, Teodosic, De Colo, Heurtel, Langford, Goudelock and countless others. Doncic faces far better players on average.

OT. Can't believe Fenerbache lost, just snatched a lot of money from me, f***. Just wanted to share my pain lol.

How are Buddy Hield and Ben McLemore, one dimensional shooters who spent multiple years in college, similar to freshmen phenoms like Fultz/Ball/DSJ who are putting up historical production? And I'm sure Doncic faces great basketball players, but I know for a fact guys like Goudelock are not going to test him as a playmaker like going up against a Josh Jackson or DeAaron Fox

[Bob8]

Any of that cream of the crop can easily turn into next Buddy Hield or Ben McLemore. College competition outside that cream of the crop is bad, it can make bad player look good. I mean if you truly have faith in those prospects and college competition in a whole, sure, those key match ups might tell you more. But you shouldn't discredit Euroleague match ups, Teodosic, De Colo, Heurtel, Langford, Goudelock and countless others. Doncic faces far better players on average.

OT. Can't believe Fenerbache lost, just snatched a lot of money from me, f***. Just wanted to share my pain lol.

How are Buddy Hield and Ben McLemore, one dimensional shooters who spent multiple years in college, similar to freshmen phenoms like Fultz/Ball/DSJ who are putting up historical production? And I'm sure Doncic faces great basketball players, but I know for a fact guys like Goudelock are not going to test him as a playmaker like going up against a Josh Jackson or DeAaron Fox

I know you're ignorant, I showed you this video before,

Watch on YouTube

;feature=youtu.be but look it again and then tell me where you see he's guarding or was guarded by Goudelock. I see Weems and Rudd, but maybe I'm wrong.

[UcanUwill]

How are Buddy Hield and Ben McLemore, one dimensional shooters who spent multiple years in college, similar to freshmen phenoms like Fultz/Ball/DSJ who are putting up historical production? And I'm sure Doncic faces great basketball players, but I know for a fact guys like Goudelock are not going to test him as a playmaker like going up against a Josh Jackson or DeAaron Fox

Yeah, I see your point, you are probably right. I mean, I am just saying that even sure fire D1 prospects can bust. Hield had many believers and he was awesome in college. But so far he looks like a player who would struggle not only in the NBA, but in top Euro competition as well. So I am just trying to give Euro guys the benefit of the doubt, I think their level of competition has proven more.

Euros are often harder to project, because they are stuck on a better competition, therefore their roles are far smaller, compared to top college prospects who are given full keys and can show off all of their skills. A lot of Euro picks is a leap of faith, I mean look at guys like Hezonja or Bender.

[Apollo64]

I think the problem that the US posters here have with assessing Doncic is that there isn't a point of reference for them: there weren't really many exceptional 6'7'' all-around playmakers in recent years in american basketball.

[UcanUwill]

Any of that cream of the crop can easily turn into next Buddy Hield or Ben McLemore. College competition outside that cream of the crop is bad, it can make bad player look good. I mean if you truly have faith in those prospects and college competition in a whole, sure, those key match ups might tell you more. But you shouldn't discredit Euroleague match ups, Teodosic, De Colo, Heurtel, Langford, Goudelock and countless others. Doncic faces far better players on average.

OT. Can't believe Fenerbache lost, just snatched a lot of money from me, f***. Just wanted to share my pain lol.

How are Buddy Hield and Ben McLemore, one dimensional shooters who spent multiple years in college, similar to freshmen phenoms like Fultz/Ball/DSJ who are putting up historical production? And I'm sure Doncic faces great basketball players, but I know for a fact guys like Goudelock are not going to test him as a playmaker like going up against a Josh Jackson or DeAaron Fox

I know you're ignorant, I showed you this video before,

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

but look it again and then tell me where you see he's guarding or was guarded by Goudelock. I see Weems and Rudd, but maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldn't call him ignorant, he is making reasonable points. And I wouldn't say he is underestimating Euroleague that much, he just has a lot of faith in his college guys.
To be fair, he can say the same thing about Weems and Rudd lol. Weems is NBA washout and Rudd is Rudd. Euro competition definitely lacks that potential NBA star power, you are playing amongst NBA role player calibers at best, and I see why it doesn't excite people.

Speaking about great competition, Doncic is expected to play in upcoming Eurobasket, so is Dragic. Dragic+Doncic, legit good guard combo.

[Sports Geek]

Euros are often harder to project, because they are stuck on a better competition, therefore their roles are far smaller, compared to top college prospects who are given full keys and can show off all of their skills. A lot of Euro picks is a leap of faith, I mean look at guys like Hezonja or Bender.

College prospects just play to show their skills, not to win. And of course Hezonja and Bender were leaps of faith, they never did anything significant in Europe, they only looked good. Hezonja was basically a talented idiot, kind of Nick Young. And Bender... we couldn't consider him a pro basically because he almost never played with the pros. Add to that the fact that they had to adjust to a different type of game. What do you have? Two busts. Not their fault though, GMs one.

But the case we are talking about (or we used to be talking about ) is completely different.

I've already stated that Europeans play with great offensive structure and are physically mature. It is my belief that after a season of weight training, guys like Fultz and Ball would be some of the best players in Euroleague.

Could we please stop talking about 2017 class? I am sure there are a lot of threads to talk about those players, basically this is becoming a "Fultz is bigger than Jesus" vs "he would play in the Spanish second division". We should compare Doncic with players in his draft class, it makes more sense in terms of guessing which number he will be picked in.

[reanimator]

I think the problem that the US posters here have with assessing Doncic is that there isn't a point of reference for them: there weren't really many exceptional 6'7'' all-around playmakers in recent years in american basketball.

Lebron, Batum, Hayward, Iguodala, Paul George, Kawhi, Parsons....are you sure?

[reanimator]

Could we please stop talking about 2017 class? I am sure there are a lot of threads to talk about those players, basically this is becoming a "Fultz is bigger than Jesus" vs "he would play in the Spanish second division". We should compare Doncic with players in his draft class, it makes more sense in terms of guessing which number he will be picked in.

I've already said I'd take him after Ayton, Bamba, Porter and maybe Duval/Carter

[reanimator]

Speaking about great competition, Doncic is expected to play in upcoming Eurobasket, so is Dragic. Dragic+Doncic, legit good guard combo.

Has he ever matched up with Frank Ntilikina or any similar prospects?

[Bob8]

How are Buddy Hield and Ben McLemore, one dimensional shooters who spent multiple years in college, similar to freshmen phenoms like Fultz/Ball/DSJ who are putting up historical production? And I'm sure Doncic faces great basketball players, but I know for a fact guys like Goudelock are not going to test him as a playmaker like going up against a Josh Jackson or DeAaron Fox

I know you're ignorant, I showed you this video before,

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

but look it again and then tell me where you see he's guarding or was guarded by Goudelock. I see Weems and Rudd, but maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldn't call him ignorant, he is making reasonable points. And I wouldn't say he is underestimating Euroleague that much, he just has a lot of faith in his college guys.
To be fair, he can say the same thing about Weems and Rudd lol. Weems is NBA washout and Rudd is Rudd. Euro competition definitely lacks that potential NBA star power, you are playing amongst NBA role player calibers at best, and I see why it doesn't excite people.

Speaking about great competition, Doncic is expected to play in upcoming Eurobasket, so is Dragic. Dragic+Doncic, legit good guard combo.

Man don't start with his stories. How many times in life did Fultz played against grown man? Never? So Weems and Rudd are great players compared to school and college kids he is up with every week. In Euroleague of course aren't many Nba stars, but in every Euroleague team are many ex NCAA stars, who are now better then they were in NCAA, because they are in the prime of theirs careers. And Doncic is playing every day against them. Many of so called wannabe lotteries picks will fail and will never play in Nba and Euroleague. But o.k let's say that they are on the same level as lotteries picks. How many times in his life did Fultz played against wannabe lotteries picks? I guess not many times, normally he plays against school kids. No way you can accept his argument that Doncic is not playing against better players in much better league.

If I link him a video, where Doncic is playing against Weems, Rudd and Goudelock and is evident Goudelock is never even near Doncic and he still claiming Goudelock is guarding him, then he is ignorant.

[Sports Geek]

I think the problem that the US posters here have with assessing Doncic is that there isn't a point of reference for them: there weren't really many exceptional 6'7'' all-around playmakers in recent years in american basketball.

Lebron, Batum, Hayward, Iguodala, Paul George, Kawhi, Parsons....are you sure?

That's the problem, you consider those guys playmakers. I give you the Lebron and maybe George, but the rest of them... Playmaking for who? For themselves?