2020 NBA Draft II

[The-Power]

Hayes is first on my board as well.

That's not why I am calling him a fraud, even if I wholeheartedly disagree with that and I feel like it's an obvious non starter

You may wholeheartedly disagree, that's fine. But I'd wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that this draft has a very obvious top tier, so considering it a ‘non-starter’ when it comes to a projected high-lottery pick seems over the top. Everyone of us has been very wrong about numerous prospects over the years in both directions – a bit of humility as regards different opinions would suit us all well, I think.

[No-Man]

Well it's my opinion, not forcing it onto anybody, to me it's a non starter, but I have my own standards

[clyde21]

#1 overall is crazy for Hayes, even in this draft where the top is cloudy

even if you like Hayes that much, the smart move would be to trade down and take him unless your intel says otherwise

[The-Power]

#1 overall is crazy for Hayes, even in this draft where the top is cloudy

Well, I think it's much less crazy than Lewis or Hampton from all the information we have (and scouts seem to agree for the most part) but even though I strongly disagree I can appreciate your thought process and I respect your opinion. And sometimes crazy turns out to be just right in hindsight, it's what I love about player development.

even if you like Hayes that much, the smart move would be to trade down and take him unless your intel says otherwise

That's fair, I'm not arguing against that at all. I'm just saying he's #1 on my board – that doesn't mean I'd use my #1 pick for him. When making my big board I'm purely ranking them based on how I see them, not factoring in trade tactics or the politics that surround the teams in the league (e.g. pressure to take a hyped prospect is real, I'm sure).

[clyde21]

#1 overall is crazy for Hayes, even in this draft where the top is cloudy

Well, I think it's much less crazy than Lewis or Hampton from all the information we have but even if I strongly disagree I can appreciate your thought process and I respect your opinion. And sometimes crazy turns out to be just right in hindsight, it's what I love about player development.

even if you like Hayes that much, the smart move would be to trade down and take him unless your intel says otherwise

That's fair, I'm not arguing against that at all. I'm just saying he's #1 on my board – that doesn't mean I'd use my #1 pick for him. When making my big board I'm purely ranking them based on how I see them, not based on trade tactics or the politics that surround the teams in the league (e.g. pressure to take a hyped prospect is real, I'm sure).

and like I said many times, just because I have RJ/Lewis #1 overall doesn't mean I would take them #1 overall, I would trust the intel I have and depending on that I would trade down and take them, why would I take them at #1 if I can have them at #10?

im not saying you having Hayes #1 overall is crazy, I'm saying taking him #1 overall based on the intel we have currently would be.

[The-Power]

and like I said many times, just because I have RJ/Lewis #1 overall doesn't mean I would take them #1 overall, I would trust the intel I have and depending on that I would trade down and take them, why would I take them at #1 if I can have them at #10?

And as I just stated, I simply rank Hayes #1 the same way you ranked Hampton or Lewis #1 at some point. I'm not saying draft him with the first pick if I can trade down and still be sure he's available then. That said, I don't expect Hayes to fall this low to be honest.

edit:

im not saying you having Hayes #1 overall is crazy, I'm saying taking him #1 overall based on the intel we have currently would be.

Got you, I totally agree with that.

[Catchall]

Jonathan Givony seems to think that LaMelo Ball is clearly the best prospect in the draft and thinks he should be the #1 pick.

[RipCity71252]

Jonathan Givony seems to think that LaMelo Ball is clearly the best prospect in the draft and thinks he should be the #1 pick.

I see the argument. We all know the value of high level initiators and his passing may be the most bankable of the elite skills/traits in this draft. His size and rebounding for his position are also nice pluses.

The effeciency concerns are very worrisome though. Struggles at all 3 levels for different reasons and isn't a foul drawer.

Not as worried about the defense or mental makeup as others but still need to be considered. Think it's fair to question how he'll hold up physically as well.

All these top guys have troubling issues though.

[clyde21]

i don't see the argument tbh, you're talking about a high-usage, no-defense lead guard with decision making and efficiency issues and no semblance of an off-ball game...i'm basically describing D-Lo

he'll get his raw stats I'm sure because it's easy in today's NBA when you're that kind of archetype to put up a bunch of points and assists but I'm not buying long term value at all at this point

we've seen this story play out a bunch of times

[azcatz11]

i don't see the argument tbh, you're talking about a high-usage, no-defense lead guard with decision making and efficiency issues and no semblance of an off-ball game...i'm basically describing D-Lo

he'll get his raw stats I'm sure because it's easy in today's NBA when you're that kind of archetype to put up a bunch of points and assists but I'm not buying long term value at all at this point

we've seen this story play out a bunch of times

Does anyone actually believe you can win a championship with him?

[RipCity71252]

i don't see the argument tbh, you're talking about a high-usage, no-defense lead guard with decision making and efficiency issues and no semblance of an off-ball game...i'm basically describing D-Lo

he'll get his raw stats I'm sure because it's easy in today's NBA when you're that kind of archetype to put up a bunch of points and assists but I'm not buying long term value at all at this point

we've seen this story play out a bunch of times

Does anyone actually believe you can win a championship with him?

I think that's a fair question to ask when talking about any of the top 5-7 guys...

[bondom34]

Didn't see it posted, and didn't think a new thread was needed, but the Ringer has their draft guide up.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Even when I don't agree I like their format and enjoy these.

[GimmeDat]

Didn't see it posted, and didn't think a new thread was needed, but the Ringer has their draft guide up.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Even when I don't agree I like their format and enjoy these.

Terry at 8 is bold. Otherwise I think it's a pretty justifiable board.

[bondom34]

Didn't see it posted, and didn't think a new thread was needed, but the Ringer has their draft guide up.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Even when I don't agree I like their format and enjoy these.

Terry at 8 is bold.

Think I read he's doing his own thing and not using other boards as a guide at all for a change, so some different stuff. I'm here for it tbh.

[Catchall]

Didn't see it posted, and didn't think a new thread was needed, but the Ringer has their draft guide up.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Even when I don't agree I like their format and enjoy these.

Terry at 8 is bold.

Think I read he's doing his own thing and not using other boards as a guide at all for a change, so some different stuff. I'm here for it tbh.

14 guards in his top 30

[clyde21]

i don't see the argument tbh, you're talking about a high-usage, no-defense lead guard with decision making and efficiency issues and no semblance of an off-ball game...i'm basically describing D-Lo

he'll get his raw stats I'm sure because it's easy in today's NBA when you're that kind of archetype to put up a bunch of points and assists but I'm not buying long term value at all at this point

we've seen this story play out a bunch of times

Does anyone actually believe you can win a championship with him?

I think that's a fair question to ask when talking about any of the top 5-7 guys...

it's definitely a fair question for all of them

i don't think you can a chip with any of these guys as your best player potentially...so the next question would be...can you win with any of these guys as your...3rd best player?

and if you say you can win with Melo as your 3rd best player, what does that look like? what's Melo's role on a team where he's the best player on?

[No-Man]

KOC should be sued for plagiarism

[Klomp]

i don't see the argument tbh, you're talking about a high-usage, no-defense lead guard with decision making and efficiency issues and no semblance of an off-ball game...i'm basically describing D-Lo

he'll get his raw stats I'm sure because it's easy in today's NBA when you're that kind of archetype to put up a bunch of points and assists but I'm not buying long term value at all at this point

we've seen this story play out a bunch of times

You don't think Russell would be the top prospect in this class?

[clyde21]

i don't see the argument tbh, you're talking about a high-usage, no-defense lead guard with decision making and efficiency issues and no semblance of an off-ball game...i'm basically describing D-Lo

he'll get his raw stats I'm sure because it's easy in today's NBA when you're that kind of archetype to put up a bunch of points and assists but I'm not buying long term value at all at this point

we've seen this story play out a bunch of times

You don't think Russell would be the top prospect in this class?

i mean, not really, what do i do with DLo? i don't think he's a winning player, and by the time his rookie contract up he's gonna want max money...i just want nothing to do with that type of player.

i'd rather have low usage defenders like Haliburton and Josh Green tbh, just not a Melo or DLo type of guy at all

[azcatz11]

KOC should be sued for plagiarism

Who did he plagarize?