Luka Doncic

[UcanUwill]

Watching Olympiacos game, but hope to catch at least second half of Real. Hope Doncic plays well. Also, will try to keep an eye on Zizic, I been kinda called out after I said I found Zizic completely underwhelming, need to watch him more.
Olympiacos cheerleaders are some of the best looking ones in the business.

[SportsGuy8]

I didn't watch last night's game yet, but why was Doncic teared up? My baseless guess is that Darussafaka's game-plan was to attack him even more and that, combined with his off shooting, prompted his coach to put him to the bench? Is that it?

That doesn't sound too promising for the final few weeks (and by far the most important ones) of the season ... Since everyone desperately wants to win now, we can expect other teams to do the same thing (also in ACB and it's playoffs), now the question is, can Luka rebound, or is Laso simply going to be forced to severely limit his minutes?

Maybe we're going to have to wait for next season to see more of Luka's heroics ...

[soulzen]

I didn't watch last night's game yet, but why was Doncic teared up? My baseless guess is that Darussafaka's game-plan was to attack him even more and that, combined with his off shooting, prompted his coach to put him to the bench? Is that it?

That doesn't sound too promising for the final few weeks (and by far the most important ones) of the season ... Since everyone desperately wants to win now, we can expect other teams to do the same thing (also in ACB and it's playoffs), now the question is, can Luka rebound, or is Laso simply going to be forced to severely limit his minutes?

Maybe we're going to have to wait for next season to see more of Luka's heroics ...

That was hard to watch, I think this was building up in him in the recent times and he expected more from himself, not to mention the pressure from the playoffs and his desire to play up to all the expectations and praises, but like you said teams are trying to shut him down and nothing is going in his favour in the last few months. No one can blame him, he is still a very emotinal and passionate teenager and I think all of this will be a huge lesson and learning experience for him at least in the long. It's stupid to expect anything from him at this point though.

[Johnny Firpo]

Doncic will be a small forward or power forward in the NBA, theoretically matching him up with PG's and SG's is a completely useless exercise. He will be quick enough for these positions, and even if he won't, that still doesn't rule him out as a potential superstar. Others did it before him, he could do it too.

[Rasho Brezec]

Doncic will be a small forward or power forward in the NBA, theoretically matching him up with PG's and SG's is a completely useless exercise. He will be quick enough for these positions, and even if he won't, that still doesn't rule him out as a potential superstar. Others did it before him, he could do it too.

European guards are about as quick as NBA forwards, he should be matched up with them. It's good teams are abusing him, he needs to be prepared for everything.

[XTraderXL]

I actually think he played solid on defense yesterday and his overall game was better than in the first game. You could see he lost his confidence quite a bit and he is not sure of his shot anymore. Like someone said before, crying is a result of the last few weeks when he mostly underperformed and it came out yesterday. He is still not a man and is very emotional so its totally understandable. It reminded me of myself when I was his age when we lost the Final National Cup game, I was 18 as well, played a very good game but lost it at the buzzer. I was the youngest guy on the team and couldnt stop crying for 30 min after the game.

If he is made of the right stuff, this will be good for him. It will make him mentally stronger, more motivated and more aggressive. I am sure Laso will know how to handle him, it was nice to see him comforting Luka during the game. After all he is still a child and with his father not around, Laso is the closest thing to that in this situation. If I was Laso, I would play Doncic as much as possible in ACB and maybe even risk a loss to get him back his confidence. Real can not win the F4 without Doncic playing at the level he played even 6 weeks ago. It is vital to get him back at least close to that level otherwise I doubt they will get past the semifinals (if they even get past this round).

[SportsGuy8]

I agree with you guys, this could actually be a blessing in disguise for him. I'm not saying he wouldn't continue working hard without such struggles, but it's a nice reminder for him that he still has a lot of work ahead ...

[UcanUwill]

I am not sure what happened, but he was benched and was clearly sad/frustrated about something. I am not sure what he did wrong, but coach even tried to calm him down it seemed. Really showed his age at that moment I thought, he is usually calm and collected beyond his years. He later checked in into the game tho, but I dont know what was all that about.

His stock is definitely dropping right now, but I say this after he still had 5 rebounds and 6 assists in only 10 minutes of action...

[Derento]

Good thing tbh
Most players improved after facing struggles.
Shows that he has so much to work on.

[Patsfan1081]

I am not sure what happened, but he was benched and was clearly sad/frustrated about something. I am not sure what he did wrong, but coach even tried to calm him down it seemed. Really showed his age at that moment I thought, he is usually calm and collected beyond his years. He later checked in into the game tho, but I dont know what was all that about.

His stock is definitely dropping right now, but I say this after he still had 5 rebounds and 6 assists in only 10 minutes of action...

Zizic though with 17/8, not bad for the recently turned twenty year old.

[UcanUwill]

I am not sure what happened, but he was benched and was clearly sad/frustrated about something. I am not sure what he did wrong, but coach even tried to calm him down it seemed. Really showed his age at that moment I thought, he is usually calm and collected beyond his years. He later checked in into the game tho, but I dont know what was all that about.

His stock is definitely dropping right now, but I say this after he still had 5 rebounds and 6 assists in only 10 minutes of action...

Zizic though with 17/8, not bad for the recently turned twenty year old.

Unfortunately I missed the first half, so I missed most of Zizic's dominance. He looks strong, but I am still not sure how successful he will be in the NBA. I am still skeptical

[XTraderXL]

Zizic will be a monster in the NBA. He is very athletic, strong and tough. He doesnt have the post moves yet but he can learn. He also looks long, is a very good rebounder and is always near the ball when its 50:50 under the basket. Check out the dunk he had in the first half yesterday. His head was almost at the rim and he posterized one of Reals players (I think it was Randolph but not sure). I like the guy since he was in Cibona and I think he will do very good in the NBA.

[Mirotic12]

Mirotic, now you're making the same mistake many European basketball fans often make: glorifying European basketball and severely underrating NBA (in this case it's defense and the importance of it). When you do it, you're really not that much better than the other side (the Euro-ball sucks crowd). You're just the other extreme ...

Anyways, because of the rules, it's a lot easier to defend in Europe/FIBA, or better said, you can take advantage of physicality, smarts etc., while in the NBA, you need to rely on your athleticism a lot more. That's why everyone points it out so much. It's easier to overcome your physical shortcomings on defense in Europe/FIBA, but in the NBA, you really cannot hide it much.

I'm not making any mistake. I'm stating the truth. How do you think good European national teams like Greece and Spain could score over 100 points against Team USA (that would probably go undefeated in an NBA season) multiple times? And Lithuania has also come close to doing it.

How do you think Real Madrid could score 142 points against the OKC Thunder? How do you think NBA games, even playoff games, regularly go over 120 points for each team?.....

Do you think it is because the NBA is playing any defense? Fact is fact. NBA is 95% offense and 5% defense. Not even a debate, or a discussion. Part of it is the rules and reffing, part of it is the fact the league dictates it be that way right from the ownership and the commissioners. And the coaches definitely follow that offense first at all costs style.

Just look at '90s NBA...they were playing defense, and the games had nowhere near the same offensive numbers. What changed? The league changed rules, changed reffing criteria and told the teams to play for offense and not defense. Straight from the head of the NBA, as has been said many times, in order to increase revenues, as they did studies that showed more scoring is what fans in USA wanted to see.

Look at '80s EuroLeague for comparison to now. No one played any defense in EuroLeague in the '80s, and you had multiple players in every top European league averaging 30-40 points a game. Some people call this "the golden era of European basketball" with "all the legendary stars"...In fact, it was the era of no one played any defense ever. That's why the scores are lower now, and no one scores like that individually - because teams started actually playing defense, after Malkovic showed playing defense could actually win championships.

The amount of points scored in high level leagues is in fact mainly based on how much defense the teams are playing.

Doncic will be a small forward or power forward in the NBA, theoretically matching him up with PG's and SG's is a completely useless exercise. He will be quick enough for these positions, and even if he won't, that still doesn't rule him out as a potential superstar. Others did it before him, he could do it too.

I guarantee you that there is a zero percentage chance that Doncic ever plays power forward in any league.

Zizic will be a monster in the NBA. He is very athletic, strong and tough. He doesnt have the post moves yet but he can learn. He also looks long, is a very good rebounder and is always near the ball when its 50:50 under the basket. Check out the dunk he had in the first half yesterday. His head was almost at the rim and he posterized one of Reals players (I think it was Randolph but not sure). I like the guy since he was in Cibona and I think he will do very good in the NBA.

He's not that athletic. He's what you would call mobile, agile, and fluid for a 7 footer. So he's a true big man, and definitely not a stiff. But that's not necessarily the same thing as being very athletic. There are numerous centers in EuroLeague that are far more athletic than he is.

Like I said before, I like him a lot, he's strong, mobile, good finisher, good rebounder, and physical. Let's not get carried away with saying he's very athletic, when he's probably at best, average as a EuroLeague big athletically. And it's the same as Doncic, in that these young players will only get slower moving forward. They are at the fastest and quickest they will ever be right now.

[nolang1]

In reality, the not caring about defense and the level of importance of defense being very low is the NBA, not EuroLeague. Any player good enough on offense can be a star in NBA, nothing about defense really matters (NBA had numerous league MVPs that could not guard anyone). That's rare in EuroLeague (De Colo and Teodosic are the only EuroLeague MVPs, or so-called "best players" at one time or another, that were really bad at defense, and even then they are not as bad as some NBA MVPs defensively). Reality is, NBA is where no one really cares if guys like Doncic can guard anyone. It's not where he plays now.

His defense speed issues would be more of a problem for his career in the long-term, if he stays in Europe. That would be lessened a lot in terms of mattering, upon entering the NBA. The NBA is focused to the extreme on offense, scoring points, and creating highlights and high scoring "superstars". That's how it is designed, how it is coached, how it is schemed, how it is played, how it is reffed, and how it's rules system works. Defense isn't applicable to the NBA in any actual real terms. So the whole issue of how guys in NCAA or Europe will do on defense at the "higher level NBA" is really just nonsense. Even NCAA DI is more physical than the NBA is, and has much more strict rules against offense

You seriously think Steph Curry or someone is worse at defense than Teodosic

Spoiler: NBA players look bad at defense at times because they are playing 48-minute games up to 5 times a week against much more talented offensive players. So I guess you are half right in that most NBA stars are so big, skilled, and athletic that the amount of defense doesn't matter if you can't match up with them physically. Based on what he's done at this age in the Euroleague, Doncic is on pace to be that kind of offensive player.

NBA teams can afford to not have lockdown defenders at every single position because of defensive centers who are long and athletic enough to cover for mistakes. I mean, Ekpe Udoh is one of the most feared shotblockers in Europe after he busted out of the NBA. Contrast that to the Olympics, where the United States can afford to play a vanilla defensive scheme while starting Carmelo and Kyrie (while keeping Draymond Green benched) because non-NBA players are scared to challenge someone like DeAndre Jordan at the rim and will pump-fake and kick the ball out instead.

Anyway, Doncic is struggling on defense because he is 18 playing against grown men. Even if he doesn't get any quicker, he will get strong enough to guard NBA forwards at an acceptable level. And if he can do that, he would easily be able to guard the failed NBA forwards who end up in the Euroleague.

[XTraderXL]

Like I said before, I like him a lot, he's strong, mobile, good finisher, good rebounder, and physical. Let's not get carried away with saying he's very athletic, when he's probably at best, average as a EuroLeague big athletically. And it's the same as Doncic, in that these young players will only get slower moving forward. They are at the fastest and quickest they will ever be right now.


You are way wrong here if you think they will only get slower. I can use my example. I was very athletic when 17-18 but I lacked the strength. I gained about 25lbs in the next 2-3 years and got even faster, more explosive and agile. My best testings were around 25yo so I kept improving until that age. What I am trying to say is not every player is the same. Players like Doncic get more explosive and faster after they are 18, especially because it is clearly visible he has not grown into his body yet. I have been saying this since the start of the season when most of you on here were saying he has a grown mans body. I dont know what you have been watching because it is clear this is not the case. Doncic will be getting stronger and as a result faster and more explosive for the next few years. He has that kind of body and I would really be surprised if he stayed at the current level. Saying that players are at their peak in terms of explosiveness and speed at 18 is a complete bull and I really have to question your knowledge about how body really works and how you are able to differentiate between different body types.

[Mirotic12]

You seriously think Steph Curry or someone is worse at defense than Teodosic

Steph Curry is easily worse at defense than Teodosic is. So yes, I definitely think that. And don't take me saying that as me bashing Curry. Curry is my favorite NBA player. I'm just stating the truth and being objective.

You are way wrong here if you think they will only get slower. I can use my example. I was very athletic when 17-18 but I lacked the strength. I gained about 25lbs in the next 2-3 years and got even faster, more explosive and agile. My best testings were around 25yo so I kept improving until that age. What I am trying to say is not every player is the same. Players like Doncic get more explosive and faster after they are 18, especially because it is clearly visible he has not grown into his body yet. I have been saying this since the start of the season when most of you on here were saying he has a grown mans body. I dont know what you have been watching because it is clear this is not the case. Doncic will be getting stronger and as a result faster and more explosive for the next few years. He has that kind of body and I would really be surprised if he stayed at the current level. Saying that players are at their peak in terms of explosiveness and speed at 18 is a complete bull and I really have to question your knowledge about how body really works and how you are able to differentiate between different body types.

Unless they are going to dope, they won't get faster and they won't get quicker. They might improve their conditioning, and they might improve their skill in how to make moves quicker just from the technical standpoint, but that's a complete different thing.

They will not get faster and will not get physiologically quicker (without doping).

And what you are talking about is simply physics. Added weight means more mass, so it can push the body faster if the added mass can generate more push to go faster. Neither Doncic, nor Zizic can add any mass and not get slower. They are both very bulky already, and for sure do not have the body type that can add mass and get faster. So no, they won't get faster.

[UcanUwill]

You seriously think Steph Curry or someone is worse at defense than Teodosic

Steph Curry is easily worse at defense than Teodosic is. So yes, I definitely think that. And don't take me saying that as me bashing Curry. Curry is my favorite NBA player. I'm just stating the truth and being objective.

You are high as a kite. Teodosic defense is pitiful, he gives up constantly letting guys pass him at will, really reminds me of was it 2015 James Harden defensive year, that one where he wasnt even trying.

[Mirotic12]

You are high as a kite. Teodosic defense is pitiful, he gives up constantly letting guys pass him at will, really reminds me of was it 2015 James Harden defensive year, that one where he wasnt even trying.

Teodosic is definitely bad at defense from his lack of effort, but he does play team defense, and he does have the capability of playing man defense. When he wants to, he can play defense (he can be lazy). He's also decent if he defends shooting guards (which he should always do anyway), and not point guards.

And he's big enough and strong enough that he can play physical if he wants to, which he does do at times.

Curry flat out is just awful at defense.

You have argued with me before a few times here that for example, De Colo is a better defender than Teodosic - no, he's actually much worse than Teodosic at defense. Yes, Teodosic is bad at defense, because he can be lazy at it. But in terms of defensive ability, and being able to defend if he wants to, he's actually much better than guys like Curry and De Colo are.

When Teodosic decides to play D, he's not bad at all. He's just not athletic enough / not well-conditioned enough, to play both sides of the court, since he has to do almost all the play making and creation in his team on offense. It takes super conditioned athletes like Kidd or Stockton, or in European teams, Diamantidis and Spanoulis to play that way, and even those types of players would often have to take breaks on defense (like 3-4 times a game or so).

Teodosic isn't like Nash or Curry, that plays that way on offense, then can't guard anyone on defense, he's just a guy that can't play both sides of the court with that kind of offense load. There is nothing strange about that in NBA either. Plenty of NBA point guards are put into a huge amount of touches and play creation duties, and have the ability to play defense, but usually simply play none. Because they can't do it from a conditioning stand. Like Chris Paul is a perfect example. He's not a bad defender in capability, he can defend, he just can't be a two way player all the time, with having so much energy expended on offense. That's Teodosic, who also has a little of that James Harden laziness, which makes his defense seem worse than it really is overall.

[XTraderXL]

I was not doping, I never had any protein or other supplements and got faster and more explosive after gaining 25lbs of pure muscle between 19 and 21. I was working my ass off in the offseason, I was in the weight room every single day since the last day of the season until the team got together for the next one. I didnt take 1 day off for 3 years and worked out through all the small injuries. After all this my game was so much better and the guys that were on my level before all of the sudden werent even close to where I was.

Doncic is clearly too skinny, his upper body needs at least 5 kg of pure muscle, his legs are not strong enough for the weight he is carrying right now, his core is the best part of his physique at the moment. Apparently you dont see all these things which means you have never been looking into this stuff. You said he is bulky which is simply not true. He has strong bones but he is not bulky. He will become bulky after adding 10kg. Right now he is skinny but has a big frame so for you he might look bulky but that does not mean it is really so.

And if you think that Teodosic is better on defense than Curry you must really be high and I dont even know why I am trying...

[Mirotic12]

I was not doping, I never had any protein or other supplements and got faster and more explosive after gaining 25lbs of pure muscle between 19 and 21. I was working my ass off in the offseason, I was in the weight room every single day since the last day of the season until the team got together for the next one. I didnt take 1 day off for 3 years and worked out through all the small injuries. After all this my game was so much better and the guys that were on my level before all of the sudden werent even close to where I was.

Doncic is clearly too skinny, his upper body needs at least 5 kg of pure muscle, his legs are not strong enough for the weight he is carrying right now, his core is the best part of his physique at the moment. Apparently you dont see all these things which means you have never been looking into this stuff. You said he is bulky which is simply not true. He has strong bones but he is not bulky. He will become bulky after adding 10kg. Right now he is skinny but has a big frame so for you he might look bulky but that does not mean it is really so.

And if you think that Teodosic is better on defense than Curry you must really be high and I dont even know why I am trying...

Yes, it's physics. These guys don't have the body to add more mass and gain speed. You did. Two different things. These guys have the body to add mass and lose speed.

The Utah Jazz thought it would be a good idea to add mass to Kosta Koufos, who did not have that right body for that either...he went from being a quick and fast center, or even power forward, to being a borderline stiff. Simply by adding mass to a body that couldn't translate that mass into more speed.

Yes, IF a player gains more mass, then they can move faster, ONLY IF they can actually move that mass. Doncic and Zizic are clearly going to slow down if they gain weight. These guys are not LeBron and Shaq, and you are arguing they are, by saying added mass will increase their speed. No, it's more like examples of Boki Nachbar and Koufos - where added mass (something NBA did with them) = slower.

As to the last comment, you guys can please kindly keep from calling people high, simply because they watch the game closely and analyze it objectively.

And yes, Doncic is bulky. If anything, he needs to lose weight.