Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn

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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#681 » by Big J » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:05 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:Like I said before, it's way too early to say he'll fail or whatever, but he had major problems creating and finishing at hte rim, and people (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) acted like we were stupid to be concerned with that, and straight up said there isn't evidence he can't create/finish at the rim well.

So now Jabari has dunked the ball one time this season. We can still project that he'll get better with strength and experience, because he has tools, but for how snarky and dickish some people were about this being brought up, and blaming it all on his role and the spacing in college ball, at least come at admit you were wrong and say he sucks at it right now, because this:





Is a lot different than what is getting said now of "oh, we knew it was a problem", where people are pretending they also knew he needed to get better at it, and that he'll improve in time.

Dude sucks at the rim right now, and he sucked making plays there in college too. He has to start showing signs there, or he's basically a spot up shooter at this level.


You're just going to keep doing this huh.


Yea, I'm gonna call it out when someone is a condescending jackoff about criticism, and then pretends he was measured and preached patience. Go read some of the responses when people voiced concerns.

"He is bad at it now, but I believe he has the tools to get better at it and become a good finisher".... isn't a bad take, even if I might have personally disagreed. That's fine, and we should totally readjust our positions if guys improve or regress.

"There is no evidence he isn't good at it" and also "lolol you guys are dumb and don't know anything about prospects if you think his finishing and getting toe the rim is a problem" were awful takes almost a year ago,and they are still awful now, but worst they just flat out were not productive at all.

And honestly, you were a huge Jabari proponent but it didn't feel disrespectful from you. I wouldn't even be pointing it out if the argument didn't shift to where people were pretending they also saw these flaws but thought we should be patience. It was straight up denial about his deficiencies.

But seriously, what are you even upset about? Do you think he has nothing to improve on in terms of getting to the rim and finishing? I'm hard pressed to even figure out what you're mad at. It's very clear he needs to improve immensely in this regard. Do you just not want people to point it out?



Some people here latch onto prospects and treat them like they are their kids. They get too emotionally attached and downplay their flaws. When they struggle they gaslight anyone who calls them out, and say that these weaknesses were already well known and established. It’s pathetic tbh. It’s not Evan doing this either, someone else.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#682 » by NO-KG-AI » Tue Nov 15, 2022 4:13 pm

EvanZ wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:

But seriously, what are you even upset about? Do you think he has nothing to improve on in terms of getting to the rim and finishing? I'm hard pressed to even figure out what you're mad at. It's very clear he needs to improve immensely in this regard.


The only thing that upsets me is people taking victory laps after a month of a player's NBA career. It's literally ridiculous to expect that Jabari would come in and within a month of his NBA career fix all the issues he had. And yes, finishing was always an issue with him. It was also an issue with Klay Thompson who Warriors fans nicknamed "Klayup" his rookie season because he couldn't finish worth a damn. I don't see what it does for you to come in here every day and repeat the same talking points over and over again.

Everyone gets it. He can't finish right now. A month into his NBA career. Now if you think Jabari is already at his peak, so be it. Others of us actually think players tend to improve over time. Will Jabari ever be an elite finisher? Probably not. But with his size and tools there's no doubt in my mind he will be just fine and in time, this conversation we're having right now will look silly. But by all means if you want to continue your daily "Jabari sucks" update...it's a free country. Have at it.



This isn't a victory lap about that. I'm calling out the fact that some people went from "Lolololol you guys are stupid for thinking his ability at the rim is a problem" to "Yea, it's a problem right now, but we all knew that, so what!"

I'm not calling it a day at all on how he'll look as a finished product. He's skinny, and he's a kid. Things can change a LOT. The people trying to gloat is literally someone's troll account, ignore that... the other guy is a concerned Rockets fan it looks like. I'm sure he'd love to be wrong about it.

I'm not declaring myself right now or in the long term, and im certainly not wishing ill on Jabari.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#683 » by clyde21 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:05 pm

god forbid we let his rookie year playout without you 3 coming in here to repeat the same things after every single game.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#684 » by EvanZ » Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:58 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:

This isn't a victory lap about that. I'm calling out the fact that some people went from "Lolololol you guys are stupid for thinking his ability at the rim is a problem" to "Yea, it's a problem right now, but we all knew that, so what!"



I think you're honestly conflating two different opinions (not necessarily held by the same people). Some people (myself included) acknowledge that he is not a good finisher *right now* (very important to have that context) but that they are not worried (in an existential sense) long term. I am in this camp. I think in 3 years nobody will be focused on his finishing because either he'll be too good in other areas that it won't matter, or he'll be bad in other areas that matter more (like his 3pt shooting). The other camp seems to be saying that Jabari is a crap finisher, he'll never improve, and it dooms him as a high level prospect. And maybe some people are in between these two camps.

The main point here is this. NEITHER side has enough evidence *at the moment* to say *ANYTHING* other than right now he's not a good finisher. In fact, I think everyone can agree on this. I'm not sure what else there is to discuss other than let's see what he looks like when he's old enough to legally buy an alcoholic beverage.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#685 » by Big J » Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:29 pm

Are we allowed to say nice things if he does something good, or are we just supposed to pretend like he doesn’t exist until the season is over. Not sure I know all of these arbitrary rules.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#686 » by EvanZ » Tue Nov 15, 2022 7:19 pm

Big J wrote:Are we allowed to say nice things if he does something good, or are we just supposed to pretend like he doesn’t exist until the season is over. Not sure I know all of these arbitrary rules.


I am curious...why is the Paolo Banchero thread so quiet? Makes you think people with a negative agenda are the ones with the louder voices. But I'm sure you are completely neutral.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#687 » by NO-KG-AI » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:14 am

EvanZ wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:

This isn't a victory lap about that. I'm calling out the fact that some people went from "Lolololol you guys are stupid for thinking his ability at the rim is a problem" to "Yea, it's a problem right now, but we all knew that, so what!"



I think you're honestly conflating two different opinions (not necessarily held by the same people). Some people (myself included) acknowledge that he is not a good finisher *right now* (very important to have that context) but that they are not worried (in an existential sense) long term. I am in this camp. I think in 3 years nobody will be focused on his finishing because either he'll be too good in other areas that it won't matter, or he'll be bad in other areas that matter more (like his 3pt shooting). The other camp seems to be saying that Jabari is a crap finisher, he'll never improve, and it dooms him as a high level prospect. And maybe some people are in between these two camps.

The main point here is this. NEITHER side has enough evidence *at the moment* to say *ANYTHING* other than right now he's not a good finisher. In fact, I think everyone can agree on this. I'm not sure what else there is to discuss other than let's see what he looks like when he's old enough to legally buy an alcoholic beverage.


I’m literally just calling out a person who was a condescending jackass to anyone that expressed that it might be problem or even a concern, but is now pretending he always acknowledged it was a problem and is taking the wait and see approach.

I’m not conflating anything. I’m only calling out the person(s) that took the above attitude. That wasn’t you.

But either way, the discussion has to shift to how he has to correct it. His ball handling isn’t great, bit I think body strength will go a long long way.

When he inevtiably strings some good rim play together, I expect it to be posted, even if it’s in with some trash talk lol. I like to see growth and discuss how he can/should build on it and be able to do it consistently. It’s not all negativity here, I can’t speak for others.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#688 » by Big J » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:41 pm

Same, I’m rooting for the kid, but not arrogant jackasses who move the goalposts.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#689 » by K_chile22 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:46 pm

EvanZ wrote:
Big J wrote:Are we allowed to say nice things if he does something good, or are we just supposed to pretend like he doesn’t exist until the season is over. Not sure I know all of these arbitrary rules.


I am curious...why is the Paolo Banchero thread so quiet? Makes you think people with a negative agenda are the ones with the louder voices. But I'm sure you are completely neutral.

I mean... I'm a Rockets fan, I'd want nothing more than for Jabari to be the best player in the draft, just come here to discuss how he's looked so far, and it's been not great!
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#690 » by SeattleJazzFan » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:02 pm

jabari apologists need to stop being so sensitive. he hasn't been good and it's okay to talk about it. if you're going to get so butthurt, maybe avoid the thread.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#691 » by clyde21 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:37 pm

nobody is saying he's been great, what's weird af tho is this daily Jabari update that no other prospects seemingly gets.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#692 » by K_chile22 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:39 pm

clyde21 wrote:nobody is saying he's been great, what's weird af tho is this daily Jabari update that no other prospects seemingly gets.
If it bothers you that much that people want to discuss how he's playing right now you can just like, not open the thread
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#693 » by clyde21 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:55 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:nobody is saying he's been great, what's weird af tho is this daily Jabari update that no other prospects seemingly gets.
If it bothers you that much that people want to discuss how he's playing right now you can just like, not open the thread


i make the mistake of thinking something of substance was actually said in here

but you're right that won't happen when I know who's posting in it right now
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#694 » by SeattleJazzFan » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:58 pm

clyde21 wrote:nobody is saying he's been great, what's weird af tho is this daily Jabari update that no other prospects seemingly gets.


i was curious about this so i went back and looked it looks like the last update was about a week ago Nov 8 - (i just skimmed quickly so i could have missed something) and then yesterday, a rockets fan, obviously just wanting to vent frustration about a guy on his own team that he was expecting more out of, came on and made a pretty vanilla comment, basically saying it's just hard to watch right now.

all the other posts are mostly just dudes arguing about him and whether it should be talked about on the board.

i think jabari apologists (i use that word intentionally because i'm a jabari fan but don't give a crap if people call it like they see as often as they want) are making more of it than it is. it's not a daily update, rather a daily argument.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#695 » by Big J » Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:39 am

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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#696 » by K_chile22 » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:59 am

SeattleJazzFan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:nobody is saying he's been great, what's weird af tho is this daily Jabari update that no other prospects seemingly gets.


i was curious about this so i went back and looked it looks like the last update was about a week ago Nov 8 - (i just skimmed quickly so i could have missed something) and then yesterday, a rockets fan, obviously just wanting to vent frustration about a guy on his own team that he was expecting more out of, came on and made a pretty vanilla comment, basically saying it's just hard to watch right now.

all the other posts are mostly just dudes arguing about him and whether it should be talked about on the board.

i think jabari apologists (i use that word intentionally because i'm a jabari fan but don't give a crap if people call it like they see as often as they want) are making more of it than it is. it's not a daily update, rather a daily argument.
Yup. This board is by far the strangest on real GM that I check. Everyone is just trying to "own" each other and therefore get all defensive and weird about it when they think someone might be trying to dunk on their takes even when no one is. Especially that dude. He's also just generally condescending and rude.


Back to discussing Jabari's play though, he looked incredible on defense tonight, by far his most impressive game there. Was everywhere on that end making up for KPJ continuing to just stop playing basketball mid way through defensive possessions
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#697 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:57 am

K_chile22 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
clyde21 wrote:nobody is saying he's been great, what's weird af tho is this daily Jabari update that no other prospects seemingly gets.


i was curious about this so i went back and looked it looks like the last update was about a week ago Nov 8 - (i just skimmed quickly so i could have missed something) and then yesterday, a rockets fan, obviously just wanting to vent frustration about a guy on his own team that he was expecting more out of, came on and made a pretty vanilla comment, basically saying it's just hard to watch right now.

all the other posts are mostly just dudes arguing about him and whether it should be talked about on the board.

i think jabari apologists (i use that word intentionally because i'm a jabari fan but don't give a crap if people call it like they see as often as they want) are making more of it than it is. it's not a daily update, rather a daily argument.
Yup. This board is by far the strangest on real GM that I check. Everyone is just trying to "own" each other and therefore get all defensive and weird about it when they think someone might be trying to dunk on their takes even when no one is. Especially that dude. He's also just generally condescending and rude.


Back to discussing Jabari's play though, he looked incredible on defense tonight, by far his most impressive game there. Was everywhere on that end making up for KPJ continuing to just stop playing basketball mid way through defensive possessions


It seems like the rest of the prospects towards the top are ranging from playing very well, to looking good in spot minutes, or at the very least are able to play to their strengths at the moments despite having flaws. I think he’s struggling the most at the moment compared to talent and expectations in the top 10 for sure. It’s probably the most we have to talk about.

Speaking from the Pels game, I thought Jabari’s work on the glass was a big factor in the Rockets giving us a big scare in that game. We generally do very well there, and he did a great job glass eating, even though it was insane how willing they were to leave him on an island against Zion, he contested about as well as you can expect for someone giving up that amount of strength, and the coaches did him 0 favors, and despite all that he made a mark on the glass. That’s the kind of stuff you love to see from guys that are struggling. Instead of hanging your head and getting passive, dig your heels and find other ways to make an impact.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#698 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:37 pm

Last night was the extremes of Jabari. For the first 3 quarters he played solid defense but did nothing else. And this isn’t just the guard situation thing either. Outside of shot attempts he was 0s across the board except 1 rebound that just fell to him in the 3rd.

But he made a huge impact in the 4th. The shot still didn’t fall but he grabbed 8 boards (lots were contested) and took his defense from solid to crazy high impact.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#699 » by threethehardway » Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:12 pm

Watched some more of his games.

He has good feet for his size. His feet isn't the issue, it's everything else. He has narrow shoulders, tight, stiff hips, he plays high and upright on offense like a center. He moves a bit better on defense.

If you look at Jaren Jackson, Kevin Durant, Giannis, they don't play tall. They can sink their hips and get low and explode vertically or horizontally. Even Lauri and Porzinigis, who are stiffer than the 3 I mentioned above, will get low to make quick movements offensively.

Everything with Jabari is high and upright, he looks taller than he is listed. Jaren Jackson Jr is listed at 6'11 and plays like he is 6'7. The level of athleticism compared to Jabari is something different. JJJ takes angles that guards take off the dribble. He is more athletic than most SFs. He moves like an NFL star linebacker.

Right now, I see Jabari, as a multi-positional , switchable defender, better shooting Myles Turner type. A guy that mostly does his damage with his jump shot off of pick and pops and spot ups. A guy whose value largely lies with his defense than his offensive capability, despite the enticing jumpshooting and mobility package in a near 7 footer that gets people thinking Durant. A lack of requisite athleticism and inability to consistently finish in the paint will always limit him but as he gets older and stronger he will be able to attack close outs and cut ins with length and strength.

Maybe he can develop a Rashard Lewis like post game to give him the ability to self-create some and draw fouls, instead of just trying to shoot over everyone.
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Re: Jabari Smith Jr. - Auburn 

Post#700 » by K_chile22 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:34 pm

Yeah it is odd how he's so fluid on defense and stiff on offense but he's starting to look a little less so lately. Been really good the last three games. Still can't finish at the rim but he's getting better attacking a closeout and hitting jumpers from three and two. Seems to be turning a corner a bit, 19/10 on 63% TS last three games. Dejounte giving him a smack to the back of the head seems to have awoken something lol


Hoping as he gets stronger he'll gain a bit more coordination on offense because he hasn't grown into his body yet at all, solid frame but stringy rn

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