Scoot Henderson

[clyde21]

Scoot has more talent than Miller, but a small guard like Scoot doesn't impact the game that much.

If you ignore the media annoited Devin Booker MVP campaign last, there are no small guards in the top 5 for MVP this year and last. Plus Booker is closer to 6'6" in shoes.

Steph
Cp3
Dame
Harden
Russ

have all been staples in the MVP convos the last decade, with 4 MVPs between them

Ja's already in the convos as well when he's not injured or flashing his gun around, D Mitch was in the convo this year, Kyrie Irving could've been for a couple of years if he wasn't a weirdo.

by contrast, how many wings or bigs have seriously been in the MVP convo the last decade?

[MemphisX]

Scoot has more talent than Miller, but a small guard like Scoot doesn't impact the game that much.

If you ignore the media annoited Devin Booker MVP campaign last, there are no small guards in the top 5 for MVP this year and last. Plus Booker is closer to 6'6" in shoes.

Steph
Cp3
Dame
Harden
Russ

have all been staples in the MVP convos the last decade, with 4 MVPs between them

Ja's already in the convos as well when he's not injured or flashing his gun around, D Mitch was in the convo this year, Kyrie Irving could've been for a couple of years if he wasn't a weirdo.

by contrast, how many wings or bigs have seriously been in the MVP convo the last decade?

The notion that wings are the most coveted position is just false. Even two-way wings. What is coveted is lead ball handlers and wings that can function as lead ball handlers are what are insanely valuable (same as jumbo point guards). Miller is not going to function as a lead ball handler IMO.

[clyde21]

who have been the wings/bigs to be legitimate MVP candidates for multiple years the last decade?

for bigs, only Jokic, Embiid and Giannis, and all 3 had to be freaks to do it. Joker had to be the best passing center of all time to get there, Embiid is just an all-around anomaly and Giannis turned into a genetic freak.

for wings outside of LeBron and KD who? Pg13 for a couple of years that's about it and Kawhi never actually played in the RS. you have Tatum and Luka now entering those convos but no other wings, and one of these is actually just an oversized guard.

in fact for your money it's more likely the elite guard will be an MVP candidate than the wing or center. the threshold that a big/wing has to clear to get into that convo is way higher than a lead guard.

[Braggins]

Honestly, the "archetype" concept for NBA players has very quickly become one of the most misunderstood and misused concepts by fans when it comes to draft discussion. In the context of the draft its use is just to give a vague idea of what kind of roles a player might play and how they could fit in different system/schemes, not to literally determine an individual prospects entire value or ceiling.

A players "role" or "archetype" does in an indirect sense have some effect on their ceiling and how good of a prospect they are in general, but that is already priced into any serious evaluation via simply taking into account a players individual attributes (Scoot being 6'2" for instance obviously effects his ceiling, but its not the determinate factor because "lololol 6'2" players suk").

People have been trying to turn the archetypes concept it into some kind cheat sheet that replaces all nuance of a unique players individual characteristics. People will do virtually no meaningful research or analysis and just quickly heard players into different archetypes and then decide which players in similar ranges are better based almost entirely on how they perceive the value of their assigned archetype.

The most popular argument I'm seeing in favor of Miller over Scoot at this point is to basically just dress up the idea that the average value of a 6'9" two-way wing is higher than the average value of a 6'2" guard, which is obviously has some truth to it because being taller is good in basketball, but also has very little to do with the question at hand because they obviously aren't picking a random 6'9" wing vs a random 6'2" guard.

[CptCrunch]

Scoot has more talent than Miller, but a small guard like Scoot doesn't impact the game that much.

If you ignore the media annoited Devin Booker MVP campaign last, there are no small guards in the top 5 for MVP this year and last. Plus Booker is closer to 6'6" in shoes.

Steph
Cp3
Dame
Harden
Russ

have all been staples in the MVP convos the last decade, with 4 MVPs between them

Ja's already in the convos as well when he's not injured or flashing his gun around, D Mitch was in the convo this year, Kyrie Irving could've been for a couple of years if he wasn't a weirdo.

by contrast, how many wings or bigs have seriously been in the MVP convo the last decade?

Steph is a top 3 shooter all-time.

Harden is a point forward.

CP3 never won anything. Dame is the most overrated star in the league. Russ is an empty stat loser.

Only Harden came close to Giannis/Jokic right now in impact; other guards lag behind. Anyways small guards don't dominate the NBA anymore.

Honestly, the "archetype" concept for NBA players has very quickly become one of the most misunderstood and misused concepts by fans when it comes to draft discussion. In the context of the draft its use is just to give a vague idea of what kind of roles a player might play and how they could fit in different system/schemes, not to literally determine an individual prospects entire value or ceiling.

A players "role" or "archetype" does in an indirect sense have some effect on their ceiling and how good of a prospect they are in general, but that is already priced into any serious evaluation via simply taking into account a players individual attributes (Scoot being 6'2" for instance obviously effects his ceiling, but its not the determinate factor because "lololol 6'2" players suk").

People have been trying to turn the archetypes concept it into some kind cheat sheet that replaces all nuance of a unique players individual characteristics. People will do virtually no meaningful research or analysis and just quickly heard players into different archetypes and then decide which players in similar ranges are better based almost entirely on how they perceive the value of their assigned archetype.

The most popular argument I'm seeing in favor of Miller over Scoot at this point is to basically just dress up the idea that the average value of a 6'9" two-way wing is higher than the average value of a 6'2" guard, which is obviously has some truth to it because being taller is good in basketball, but also has very little to do with the question at hand because they obviously aren't picking a random 6'9" wing vs a random 6'2" guard.

You just said it, the 50th percentile outcome for Miller is gonna be better than the 50th percentile outcome for Scoot. Scoot has to develop (I'm making it up) 80th percentile to be better than Miller at 50.

Please name me the last 6'2" MVP (really point guard sized MVP). Westbrook? Rose? Harden, who is bigger, Curry? Hasn't history shown Westbrook and Rose to be bascially some of the most fraudulent in NBA history? Harden while great never came close to winning anything. Curry, I don't want to get into an argument with Warriors fans; let's say I think he is a huge player of circumstances.

[Braggins]

Spoiler:

Honestly, the "archetype" concept for NBA players has very quickly become one of the most misunderstood and misused concepts by fans when it comes to draft discussion. In the context of the draft its use is just to give a vague idea of what kind of roles a player might play and how they could fit in different system/schemes, not to literally determine an individual prospects entire value or ceiling.

A players "role" or "archetype" does in an indirect sense have some effect on their ceiling and how good of a prospect they are in general, but that is already priced into any serious evaluation via simply taking into account a players individual attributes (Scoot being 6'2" for instance obviously effects his ceiling, but its not the determinate factor because "lololol 6'2" players suk").

People have been trying to turn the archetypes concept it into some kind cheat sheet that replaces all nuance of a unique players individual characteristics. People will do virtually no meaningful research or analysis and just quickly heard players into different archetypes and then decide which players in similar ranges are better based almost entirely on how they perceive the value of their assigned archetype.

The most popular argument I'm seeing in favor of Miller over Scoot at this point is to basically just dress up the idea that the average value of a 6'9" two-way wing is higher than the average value of a 6'2" guard, which is obviously has some truth to it because being taller is good in basketball, but also has very little to do with the question at hand because they obviously aren't picking a random 6'9" wing vs a random 6'2" guard.

You just said it, the 50th percentile outcome for Miller is gonna be better than the 50th percentile outcome for Scoot. Scoot has to develop (I'm making it up) 80th percentile to be better than Miller at 50.

Please name me the last 6'2" MVP (really point guard sized MVP). Westbrook? Rose? Harden, who is bigger, Curry? Hasn't history shown Westbrook and Rose to be bascially some of the most fraudulent in NBA history? Harden while great never came close to winning anything. Curry, I don't want to get into an argument with Warriors fans; let's say I think he is a huge player of circumstances.

This is not what I was saying at all. You seem to be doing exactly what I was criticizing.

[sisibilio]

Please name me the last 6'2" MVP (really point guard sized MVP). Westbrook? Rose? Harden, who is bigger, Curry? Hasn't history shown Westbrook and Rose to be bascially some of the most fraudulent in NBA history? Harden while great never came close to winning anything. Curry, I don't want to get into an argument with Warriors fans; let's say I think he is a huge player of circumstances.

Blazers fan here. I'd be ecstatic if we end up with Scoot and he turned "just" into a healthy Derrick Rose.

[crows2]

There are two separate discussions here:

1. Is Scoot a slam dunk better prospect than Miller?

2. Is Scoot a lock to be taken at pick 2?

In my opinion, the answer to (1) is yes, I’d take him regardless of team fit.

However I think the answer to (2) is less clear. Never underestimate the ineptitude of Charlotte.

[crows2]

Scoot has more talent than Miller, but a small guard like Scoot doesn't impact the game that much.

If you ignore the media annoited Devin Booker MVP campaign last, there are no small guards in the top 5 for MVP this year and last. Plus Booker is closer to 6'6" in shoes.

Steph
Cp3
Dame
Harden
Russ

have all been staples in the MVP convos the last decade, with 4 MVPs between them

Ja's already in the convos as well when he's not injured or flashing his gun around, D Mitch was in the convo this year, Kyrie Irving could've been for a couple of years if he wasn't a weirdo.

by contrast, how many wings or bigs have seriously been in the MVP convo the last decade?

The only issue with this argument is, how many of them have won championships? Only Curry.

Since 2011, the following have also won championships - LeBron x4, Kawhi x2, Durant x2 (but with Curry), Dirk and Giannis. This year either Jokic or Butler will join that list.

In saying that, as I said above I have Scoot in a different tier to Miller so I’d be taking him at 2 regardless.

[clyde21]

You just said it, the 50th percentile outcome for Miller is gonna be better than the 50th percentile outcome for Scoot. Scoot has to develop (I'm making it up) 80th percentile to be better than Miller at 50.

i disagree with that

what does a 50% outcome of Miller even look like? what role does that guy play for you?

[Big J]

You just said it, the 50th percentile outcome for Miller is gonna be better than the 50th percentile outcome for Scoot. Scoot has to develop (I'm making it up) 80th percentile to be better than Miller at 50.

i disagree with that

what does a 50% outcome of Miller even look like? what role does that guy play for you?

50% outcome for Miller would be like an Otto Porter Jr. without the injuries.

[WinterSoldier]

There are two separate discussions here:

1. Is Scoot a slam dunk better prospect than Miller?

2. Is Scoot a lock to be taken at pick 2?

In my opinion, the answer to (1) is yes, I’d take him regardless of team fit.

However I think the answer to (2) is less clear. Never underestimate the ineptitude of Charlotte.

Scoot scored well in a system that there is no history of success with. He also shot terrible from the 3pt line and his team was really bad in the league he was playing in. I don't get the argument that Scoot is a better prospect? is it because he is a good athlete? Miller did well in a system that has 70 years of history I think he's easily the safer pick. Also the fit in Charlotte is way better for Miller, Has anyone seen a successful two PG team that has done well?

[clyde21]

it really is incredible how this guy got so underrated thru the process, dude has been legitimately running NBA-level offenses in the GL against NBA competition for two years now, has an elite physical profile with some outlier tools and strong alpha qualities any locker room will want to have moving forward.

he's a cornerstone piece, would've gone #1 last year and the 2020 class for sure, probably would go #1 next year as well if he was in that class.

Read on Twitter

[Big J]

it really is incredible how this guy got so underrated thru the process, dude has been legitimately running NBA-level offenses in the GL against NBA competition for two years now, has an elite physical profile with some outlier tools and strong alpha qualities any locker room will want to have moving forward.

he's a cornerstone piece, would've gone #1 last year and the 2020 class for sure, probably would go #1 next year as well if he was in that class.

Read on Twitter

6'1 is an elite physical profile? What sport are we talking about here?

[mattao313]

it really is incredible how this guy got so underrated thru the process, dude has been legitimately running NBA-level offenses in the GL against NBA competition for two years now, has an elite physical profile with some outlier tools and strong alpha qualities any locker room will want to have moving forward.

he's a cornerstone piece, would've gone #1 last year and the 2020 class for sure, probably would go #1 next year as well if he was in that class.

Read on Twitter

I don't think he goes 1st last year. Banchero a 6'10 guy with perimeter skills and Chet a 7 footer with an all around game and dpoy defense is way more intriguing imo. It's not like he lit up the g league or something either that's where the disconnect is with me. If he was dominating down there sure but he put up pedestrian numbers in the g league for some reason he's a lock for #2. Makes no sense.

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[EvanZ]

The kind of hyperbole in that tweet is what makes people hate Draft Twitter. Makes me want to vomit.

[HiDef]

it really is incredible how this guy got so underrated thru the process, dude has been legitimately running NBA-level offenses in the GL against NBA competition for two years now, has an elite physical profile with some outlier tools and strong alpha qualities any locker room will want to have moving forward.

he's a cornerstone piece, would've gone #1 last year and the 2020 class for sure, probably would go #1 next year as well if he was in that class.

Read on Twitter

I don't think he goes 1st last year. Banchero a 6'10 guy with perimeter skills and Chet a 7 footer with an all around game and dpoy defense is way more intriguing imo. It's not like he lit up the g league or something either that's where the disconnect is with me. If he was dominating down there sure but he put up pedestrian numbers in the g league for some reason he's a lock for #2. Makes no sense.

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Reality is most of these guys kinda suck at basketball. The ones who don't are being carried by offball scoring, transition scoring, open shooting.They're young, playing against tough competition

For his age Scoot's numbers are on the high end. Good rim finishing in the halfcourt, good C&S efficiency on low volume, gets to the line. Don't have access to all the numbers, but from what I've seen the midrange is totally pure too. Pretty sure it's mainly his pullup 3p shooting and floater game that tank his numbers, and for him to be working on those skills is what you want.

I probably wouldn't have had the balls to take Paolo over him. He's a nice prospect.

[GoBobs]

When I watch this video Scoot looks about the same size as Bones Hyland, who was measured as 6'2'' barefoot at the combine and plays at 6'3.5'' in shoes.

Also kind of funny that LaMelo and Scotty Barnes are both called out as 6'7'' by the anouncer and cleary Barnes is a lot taller.

Watch on YouTube

[baldur]

Sick of these fake, inflated heights. Is it a professional sport organziation or dating apps?

[clyde21]

it really is incredible how this guy got so underrated thru the process, dude has been legitimately running NBA-level offenses in the GL against NBA competition for two years now, has an elite physical profile with some outlier tools and strong alpha qualities any locker room will want to have moving forward.

he's a cornerstone piece, would've gone #1 last year and the 2020 class for sure, probably would go #1 next year as well if he was in that class.

I don't think he goes 1st last year. Banchero a 6'10 guy with perimeter skills and Chet a 7 footer with an all around game and dpoy defense is way more intriguing imo. It's not like he lit up the g league or something either that's where the disconnect is with me. If he was dominating down there sure but he put up pedestrian numbers in the g league for some reason he's a lock for #2. Makes no sense.

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i'd bet that Orlando would've went with Scoot over Paolo if they were both in the 22 class together and we didn't see Paolo's rookie season in the NBA