Luka Doncic

[Mirotic12]

OLY is toast man, thats what I was saying. I knew this series is about to go south when they lost game 2 at home despite vintage Spanoulis and Printezis performance. When Spanoulis is off, this team is no match for Efes. Their offensive talent is pitiful.

Like I said...it will be a 5 game series, because Hackett and Lojeski (two of the better players in Europe) are both injured for Olympiacos. So far, in 4 games, you could see Olympiacos would have won all 4 games if they just had one of those 2 players.

But when you miss two important players like that, it's going to make it a 5 game series. I think game 5 can be a 50/50 game also. If Olympiacos was healthy, they would have for sure swept Efes. But with those kind of injuries, it's going to be a 5 game battle, and maybe until the very end. Without the outside shooting of Lojeski (Spanoulis has to do all the 3 point scoring), and the defense of Hackett (Waters can play offense, but he can't guard anyone)...it's going to make this whole series a battle, because the two teams are basically 50/50 now.

With that being said, I still picked Olympiacos in 5 games, because they are a smarter team, and they have Spanoulis. Efes is for sure a more athletic team, but none of their players has Spanoulis' brains, ability, guts, or will to win. And usually, that makes the difference in the playoffs. But yeah, these two teams with Hackett and Lojeski injuries are basically 50/50, so anything could happen in game 5. Spanoulis and Printezis need to come up with one more big game for Olympiacos.

Hm, didn't know that, thanks for the explanation. Btw. I didn't use the word hate

So, what would then be a better stat operation? Can I use some formula to calculate better "indicator"?

Well, here is original forms of PIR, from 1960.

Standard:

(Points) + (Rebounds) + (Assists) + (Steals) + (Blocks) - (Missed Field Goals) - 0.5 * (Missed Free Throws) - (Turnovers) - (Fouls Committed) / (Minutes Played) / (Game Pace (Possessions Per Game, typically ranges from 60 to 75)).

Modified: (weighted)

(Points) + (Rebounds) + 1.25 * (Assists) + 1.25 * (Steals) + (Blocks) - 1.25 * (Turnovers) - (Missed Field Goals) - (Missed Free Throws / 2) - Fouls Committed / 2) / (Minutes Played) / (Game Pace (Possessions Per Game, typically ranges from 60 to 75)).


And then here is current form of PIR, from 1991, when Spanish League "simplified" it, to current use.

(Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks + Fouls Drawn) - (Missed Field Goals + Missed Free Throws + Turnovers + Shots Rejected + Fouls Committed).

So, I guess you could use the first two and compare it to PIR, but that's probably a lot of work.

[burek3]

OLY is toast man, thats what I was saying. I knew this series is about to go south when they lost game 2 at home despite vintage Spanoulis and Printezis performance. When Spanoulis is off, this team is no match for Efes. Their offensive talent is pitiful.

Like I said...it will be a 5 game series, because Hackett and Lojeski (two of the better players in Europe) are both injured for Olympiacos. So far, in 4 games, you could see Olympiacos would have won all 4 games if they just had one of those 2 players.

But when you miss two important players like that, it's going to make it a 5 game series. I think game 5 can be a 50/50 game also. If Olympiacos was healthy, they would have for sure swept Efes. But with those kind of injuries, it's going to be a 5 game battle, and maybe until the very end. Without the outside shooting of Lojeski (Spanoulis has to do all the 3 point scoring), and the defense of Hackett (Waters can play offense, but he can't guard anyone)...it's going to make this whole series a battle, because the two teams are basically 50/50 now.

With that being said, I still picked Olympiacos in 5 games, because they are a smarter team, and they have Spanoulis. Efes is for sure a more athletic team, but none of their players has Spanoulis' brains, ability, guts, or will to win. And usually, that makes the difference in the playoffs. But yeah, these two teams with Hackett and Lojeski injuries are basically 50/50, so anything could happen in game 5. Spanoulis and Printezis need to come up with one more big game for Olympiacos.

Hm, didn't know that, thanks for the explanation. Btw. I didn't use the word hate

So, what would then be a better stat operation? Can I use some formula to calculate better "indicator"?

Well, here is original forms of PIR, from 1960.

Standard:

(Points) + (Rebounds) + (Assists) + (Steals) + (Blocks) - (Missed Field Goals) - 0.5 * (Missed Free Throws) - (Turnovers) - (Fouls Committed) / (Minutes Played) / (Game Pace (Possessions Per Game, typically ranges from 60 to 75)).

Modified: (weighted)

(Points) + (Rebounds) + 1.25 * (Assists) + 1.25 * (Steals) + (Blocks) - 1.25 * (Turnovers) - (Missed Field Goals) - (Missed Free Throws / 2) - Fouls Committed / 2) / (Minutes Played) / (Game Pace (Possessions Per Game, typically ranges from 60 to 75)).


And then here is current form of PIR, from 1991, when Spanish League "simplified" it, to current use.

(Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks + Fouls Drawn) - (Missed Field Goals + Missed Free Throws + Turnovers + Shots Rejected + Fouls Committed).

So, I guess you could use the first two and compare it to PIR, but that's probably a lot of work.

Yes, I browsed around a bit and found that NBA uses PER stat as the orientation point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_efficiency_rating

Looks quite complex. Not too happy that it calculates offensive ability only, but ok, it's something.

[UcanUwill]

You don't need to worry, Oly will destroy Efes in game 5.

Hope so, but I really dont trust OLYs offense. I think it can go either way.

Like I said...it will be a 5 game series, because Hackett and Lojeski (two of the better players in Europe) are both injured for Olympiacos. So far, in 4 games, you could see Olympiacos would have won all 4 games if they just had one of those 2 players.

Is Hackett still a team member? Euroleague page doest have him on their roster.

[BlueLion]

He is currently better than any guy on 2017 draft class. We will see how he does next season. Top 3 should be a lock, but almost 3 years of pro ball should be enough for No. 1 pick next year.

[soulzen]

He is currently better than any guy on 2017 draft class. We will see how he does next season. Top 3 should be a lock, but almost 3 years of pro ball should be enough for No. 1 pick next year.

I think he will be by far the most experienced and mentally ready for the NBA, but keep in mind teams could skip Doncic because he isn't an elite athlete, a lot of scouts praise him but they agree there are prospects with higher ceilings, it doesn't help that Bamba and Ayton are up there with him since they are genetic freaks.

[UcanUwill]

He is not beating Bamba. Bomba is a freak.

[Goudelock]

After doing a little bit of research, I can see why this guy is so hyped. He's got a point forward skillset, and he looks to be above average athletically. His handle looks to be good too, which is rare for an 18 y/o wing player.

[Wagonband]

Back 2 back MVP of the final four games in Eurolegaue? Such a utility guy.

I actually believe that Dončič will be even better in the NBA where the court is bigger and defensive 3s aren't allowed.

Also someone keeps mentioning he has a weak pull-up game. That maybe so, but he has a great step-back shot with which he is confident drilling clutch threes.

He might not be top 10 in Legue Material (but who knows, hard to tell with 18 year olds. Just look at some lol drafts), but i can definetly see perrenial All-star in his future

[reanimator]

Top 3 should be a lock, but almost 3 years of pro ball should be enough for No. 1 pick next year.

Yeah, because Bamba, Porter Jr and Ayton aren't better prospects.

[soulzen]

Top 3 should be a lock, but almost 3 years of pro ball should be enough for No. 1 pick next year.

Yeah, because Bamba, Porter Jr and Ayton aren't better prospects.

I think there's a drop after Doncic, Ayton, Porter Jr and Bamba, Personally I would take him this year as a n.2 to replace Ball, but have him as 3-4 in 2018, in 2019 with Marvin Bagley Jr. and Zion williamson he wouldn't be in a much better position either.

[Mirotic12]

Is Hackett still a team member? Euroleague page doest have him on their roster.

Yes, Hackett is still on Olympiacos' roster. EuroLeague and Greek League don't list any players that are on injury reserve, as being on the team. Unless you are active, your're not included in the roster. It's not like NBA, where all players are listed.

But yes, he's still on the team. He started practicing about a week ago, and they say he might be able to play in the Greek League Finals, if they make it.

The team's website shows all the players, even the ones on injury reserve (Hackett) and suspension (Athinaiou).

http://www.olympiacosbc.gr/en/team/team-players.html

They are saying Lojeski might be able to play in the EuroLeague Final Four, if they make it.

After doing a little bit of research, I can see why this guy is so hyped. He's got a point forward skillset, and he looks to be above average athletically. His handle looks to be good too, which is rare for an 18 y/o wing player.

I think that's highly debatable. I would call him average athletically, as compared to other small forwards in EuroLeague.

Back 2 back MVP of the final four games in Eurolegaue? Such a utility guy.

I actually believe that Dončič will be even better in the NBA where the court is bigger and defensive 3s aren't allowed.

Also someone keeps mentioning he has a weak pull-up game. That maybe so, but he has a great step-back shot with which he is confident drilling clutch threes.

He might not be top 10 in Legue Material (but who knows, hard to tell with 18 year olds. Just look at some lol drafts), but i can definetly see perrenial All-star in his future

No, he wasn't. That EuroLeague Final Four tournament didn't even start yet.

[UcanUwill]

back to back MVP in playoffs basically means he had the highest PIR game out of two/three teams (the ones that won the round). Good, but not even worth mentioning.

[Mirotic12]

back to back MVP in playoffs basically means he had the highest PIR game out of two/three teams (the ones that won the round). Good, but not even worth mentioning.

Yeah, to be honest, I think the only reason EuroLeague ever even does this award (same with national leagues) is because it's a marketing income. Highest PIR stat of winning teams, for one game....yet they make such a big deal out of it every week....it's basically nonsense.

But they always have marketing sponsors attached to these awards, so I think that's the whole reason they do it. There is really no reason for this to be done after every single game, other than they are getting marketing money. I know player of the week was never mentioned ever in Greek league, then suddenly they got a marketing sponsor for that, and all of a sudden it became a big deal...

[burek3]

If you want to compete with NBA in terms of popularity, this is the way to go. EL needs and deserves more attention (and money ofc ). One step at a time. Long term goal should be NBA-like strong franchise based competition. But for that, you need viewers, fans, their money, hype. Doncic as the young prodigy of basketball supports that narrative, popularizing the sport among the younger audiences.

PIR, uPIR, PER, uPER, they're just math operations over stats. If PIR gets the views, so be it. For now.

I love what they did with the format this year, with the huge pile of **** exception of final four.

[Rasho Brezec]

If they want to compete with the NBA, they should standardize the regulations. Same court dimensions, same playing time, same rules. Part of the reason why NBA players are more athletic is because they have to adapt to bigger courts. You can't hide stiffs in team defense there.

[Cipoteman]

I know Bryan Colangelo attended, not sure about other GMs or scouts but this was the right game to evaluate Edwin Jackson (ACB's top scorer by far in his worst game of the season, BTW) or Alec Brown.

Meanwhile in just 11 minutes...

Read on Twitter

[Bob8]

back to back MVP in playoffs basically means he had the highest PIR game out of two/three teams (the ones that won the round). Good, but not even worth mentioning.

You're missing the point. We're not talking about Teo, De Colo or Llull being MVP twice in the row. But 18 years old kid. There's no one else under 20 years who plays in Euroleague. Only playing at his age in Euroleague is a big success. Playing for one of the best clubs is even bigger, be very important player for that club and having better Pir than Teodosic, De Colo, Spanoulis, Llull, Wanamaker, Randolph... in some playoffs games, is something unprecedented and unbelievable. And it's not only stats. He was one of the most important players of Real in last 2 wins, which put Real in F4. If that is not worth mentioning, I don't know what is.

[Bob8]

If they want to compete with the NBA, they should standardize the regulations. Same court dimensions, same playing time, same rules. Part of the reason why NBA players are more athletic is because they have to adapt to bigger courts. You can't hide stiffs in team defense there.

Everyone in Nba is playing great D?

[Cipoteman]

back to back MVP in playoffs basically means he had the highest PIR game out of two/three teams (the ones that won the round). Good, but not even worth mentioning.

You're missing the point. We're not talking about Teo, De Colo or Llull being MVP twice in the row. But 18 years old kid. There's no one else under 20 years who plays in Euroleague. Only playing at his age in Euroleague is a big success. Playing for one of the best clubs is even bigger, be very important player for that club and having better Pir than Teodosic, De Colo, Spanoulis, Llull, Wanamaker, Randolph... in some playoffs games, is something unprecedented and unbelievable. And it's not only stats. He was one of the most important players of Real in last 2 wins, which put Real in F4. If that is not worth mentioning, I don't know what is.

Just to reinforce your post, he was able to put two great back-to-back games while being defended most of the time by Scottie Wilbekin, who not long ago was considered a lockdown defender in the NCAA - 2× SEC All-Defensive Team (2013, 2014) -

[soulzen]

I know Bryan Colangelo attended, not sure about other GMs or scouts but this was the right game to evaluate Edwin Jackson (ACB's top scorer by far in his worst game of the season, BTW) or Alec Brown.

Meanwhile in just 11 minutes...

Read on Twitter

I read that Denver's, Philly's and Sun's scouts were watching the game. I know they weren't there just because of him, but could we say there's a reason they are interested in him before this years draft? Would he be a good fit with the Suns if they don't draft Lonzo for example, I don't know their situation or roster that well.