Ben Simmons

[Duke4life831]

I feel the same way. What he does at his size is great, but it will be harder for him to score at the next level in the half court. He wont have the size or quickness advantage over everyone. You cant give NBA level defenders the huge advantage of letting them sag off of you completely. And for the people who say shooting can be learned, well tell that to Rubio, Rondo, Wall and so on. Right now he would be my #1 pick, and I also dont put him on the same level as the guys you mentioned above

There is one tiny difference, he is 6'10 and 240

What does his size have to do with him learning to shoot?

[nurseryc]

Incredible physical talent - wonderful handle, combined with great length and pure speed.

But I gotta say, watching him for the first time - the guy refuses to shoot the ball. Ever. I think he knows he stinks at that. So, every play is him forcing his way into the paint and hoping somebody comes open so he can pass it. He overwhelms college guys who are shorter in the interior - and today, turned it over a ton.

I'd pick him, but I don't see the next Antonio Davis or Durant or LeBron in him - at all. Not yet. Until he shoots the ball with confidence, he's not all that.

I suppose he's "going to work on his shooting." Uh huh - don't they all. But that's a huge missing in his game, and IMO a rational talent evaluator would have to downgrade him a lot as a prospect, unless he was sure Simmons would become a decent shooter.

Ben hit a beautiful jump shot in todays game and demonstrated excellent mechanics. That's got to send shivers down all his opponents backs.

[splendidham]

I feel the same way. What he does at his size is great, but it will be harder for him to score at the next level in the half court. He wont have the size or quickness advantage over everyone. You cant give NBA level defenders the huge advantage of letting them sag off of you completely. And for the people who say shooting can be learned, well tell that to Rubio, Rondo, Wall and so on. Right now he would be my #1 pick, and I also dont put him on the same level as the guys you mentioned above

Who do you have no.2 hand and how close is he to Simmons?

Ingram is my #2. There is a huge gap to #3 and still a good size gap between Simmons and Ingram. I think Ingram has the higher potential but Simmons is the much safer pick. If Ingram continues to shoot the way he is as of late and continues his overall performance like he has, then I think the gap between him and simmons will be very small by the time the draft comes around

So if Ben learns to shoot and Ingram puts on size, do you still see Ingram having more potential?



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[Duke4life831]

Who do you have no.2 hand and how close is he to Simmons?

Ingram is my #2. There is a huge gap to #3 and still a good size gap between Simmons and Ingram. I think Ingram has the higher potential but Simmons is the much safer pick. If Ingram continues to shoot the way he is as of late and continues his overall performance like he has, then I think the gap between him and simmons will be very small by the time the draft comes around

So if Ben learns to shoot and Ingram puts on size, do you still see Ingram having more potential?



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Ya. Ingram is already a really good defender both on the perimeter and inside. Now he won't be an effective inside defender on the next level until he gets stronger. Ingram has the potential to be a really potent perimeter scorer and a lock down defender. Give me the elite 2 way perimeter scorer over an elite facilitator.

I think both issues are major question marks. Simmons jumper is non existent and he has really bad form on it the rare time he attempts it. And Ingram is as thin as a prospect I have seen. Simmons can still be a really good starter if he never gets a jumper. I can't see Ingram succeeding if he doesn't put on at least 30 pounds. I just think simmons is the safer pick at the moment

[anubis0713]

I feel the same way. What he does at his size is great, but it will be harder for him to score at the next level in the half court. He wont have the size or quickness advantage over everyone. You cant give NBA level defenders the huge advantage of letting them sag off of you completely. And for the people who say shooting can be learned, well tell that to Rubio, Rondo, Wall and so on. Right now he would be my #1 pick, and I also dont put him on the same level as the guys you mentioned above

Who do you have no.2 hand and how close is he to Simmons?

Ingram is my #2. There is a huge gap to #3 and still a good size gap between Simmons and Ingram. I think Ingram has the higher potential but Simmons is the much safer pick. If Ingram continues to shoot the way he is as of late and continues his overall performance like he has, then I think the gap between him and simmons will be very small by the time the draft comes around

But your arguement earlier in the season was Simmons has scored against horrible teams.
In his last 3 games he has faced top 15 defenses via kenpom and averaged 26/13 even with sitting out half of the first period against Kentucky.

Ingram on the other hand has played Kentucky and the next best was no.51 Utah and was not good in either of them.

So far all he has shown is he is capable of looking good against mediocre defences and struggling badly against better ones.

Simmons has shown he can dominate the best defences in the country.
With Ingram currently it is hoping he can.

I can't see how Ingram is remotely close to being the no1 pick at the moment.

[The Skyhook]

Who do you have no.2 hand and how close is he to Simmons?

Ingram is my #2. There is a huge gap to #3 and still a good size gap between Simmons and Ingram. I think Ingram has the higher potential but Simmons is the much safer pick. If Ingram continues to shoot the way he is as of late and continues his overall performance like he has, then I think the gap between him and simmons will be very small by the time the draft comes around

But your arguement earlier in the season was Simmons has scored against horrible teams.
In his last 3 games he has faced top 15 defenses via kenpom and averaged 26/13 even with sitting out half of the first period against Kentucky.

Ingram on the other hand has played Kentucky and the next best was no.51 Utah and was not good in either of them.

So far all he has shown is he is capable of looking good against mediocre defences and struggling badly against better ones.

Simmons has shown he can dominate the best defences in the country.
With Ingram currently it is hoping he can.

I can't see how Ingram is remotely close to being the no1 pick at the moment.

Brandon Ingram from his first 6 games compared to every game after that until now is a completely different player. It took him a bit to figure it out and get it going. While I do think Simmons has all the talent to become an outstanding player in the league one day, I do think he will see his fair share of struggles early on due to his lack of shooting. Sure Simmons is getting anything he wants against smaller defenses but in the NBA he isn't going to get whatever he wants on the inside.

Ben's jump shot will be a project of its own so I think the best option early in his career would be to develop his post game. His body frame and passing ability paired with his ability to finish with either hand could should make it easy for him to operate out of the post until he develops a jump shot.

[anubis0713]

Ingram is my #2. There is a huge gap to #3 and still a good size gap between Simmons and Ingram. I think Ingram has the higher potential but Simmons is the much safer pick. If Ingram continues to shoot the way he is as of late and continues his overall performance like he has, then I think the gap between him and simmons will be very small by the time the draft comes around

But your arguement earlier in the season was Simmons has scored against horrible teams.
In his last 3 games he has faced top 15 defenses via kenpom and averaged 26/13 even with sitting out half of the first period against Kentucky.

Ingram on the other hand has played Kentucky and the next best was no.51 Utah and was not good in either of them.

So far all he has shown is he is capable of looking good against mediocre defences and struggling badly against better ones.

Simmons has shown he can dominate the best defences in the country.
With Ingram currently it is hoping he can.

I can't see how Ingram is remotely close to being the no1 pick at the moment.

Brandon Ingram from his first 6 games compared to every game after that until now is a completely different player. It took him a bit to figure it out and get it going. While I do think Simmons has all the talent to become an outstanding player in the league one day, I do think he will see his fair share of struggles early on due to his lack of shooting. Sure Simmons is getting anything he wants against smaller defenses but in the NBA he isn't going to get whatever he wants on the inside.

Ben's jump shot will be a project of its own so I think the best option early in his career would be to develop his post game. His body frame and passing ability paired with his ability to finish with either hand could should make it easy for him to operate out of the post until he develops a jump shot.

Who knows they could both end up scrubs.
Hields the only certainty in the draft he's like Curry.

[nurseryc]

Ingram is my #2. There is a huge gap to #3 and still a good size gap between Simmons and Ingram. I think Ingram has the higher potential but Simmons is the much safer pick. If Ingram continues to shoot the way he is as of late and continues his overall performance like he has, then I think the gap between him and simmons will be very small by the time the draft comes around

So if Ben learns to shoot and Ingram puts on size, do you still see Ingram having more potential?



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Ya. Ingram is already a really good defender both on the perimeter and inside. Now he won't be an effective inside defender on the next level until he gets stronger. Ingram has the potential to be a really potent perimeter scorer and a lock down defender. Give me the elite 2 way perimeter scorer over an elite facilitator.

I think both issues are major question marks. Simmons jumper is non existent and he has really bad form on it the rare time he attempts it. And Ingram is as thin as a prospect I have seen. Simmons can still be a really good starter if he never gets a jumper. I can't see Ingram succeeding if he doesn't put on at least 30 pounds. I just think simmons is the safer pick at the moment

Ben hit a beautiful jump shot in todays game and demonstrated excellent mechanics. That's got to send shivers down all his opponents backs

[Duke4life831]

So if Ben learns to shoot and Ingram puts on size, do you still see Ingram having more potential?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ya. Ingram is already a really good defender both on the perimeter and inside. Now he won't be an effective inside defender on the next level until he gets stronger. Ingram has the potential to be a really potent perimeter scorer and a lock down defender. Give me the elite 2 way perimeter scorer over an elite facilitator.

I think both issues are major question marks. Simmons jumper is non existent and he has really bad form on it the rare time he attempts it. And Ingram is as thin as a prospect I have seen. Simmons can still be a really good starter if he never gets a jumper. I can't see Ingram succeeding if he doesn't put on at least 30 pounds. I just think simmons is the safer pick at the moment

Ben hit a beautiful jump shot in todays game and demonstrated excellent mechanics. That's got to send shivers down all his opponents backs

Is this sarcasm? His jumper yesterday had terrible mechanics. It was not pretty

[Brapman]

I remember I hit a shot one time in a pickup game. It was beautiful - and on that rare fall day, I demonstrated perfect mechanics.

Alas, I stunk the rest of my playing days.

[Duke4life831]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/685895216264560640[/tweet]

What about this jumper is beautiful? This is the definition of an ugly jumper lol. He shoots it on his way down

[crazy_me_87]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/685895216264560640[/tweet]

What about this jumper is beautiful? This is the definition of an ugly jumper lol. He shoots it on his way down

You people go way too far with bashing his Jumper...
Kidd-Gilchrist would be the definition of an Ugly Jumper..

Bens shot is far from perfect but he has no hitch in it and its fundamentally ok. with a proper shooting Coach its totally fixable at least to a level where he can be an "ok" shooter.

People hear he has a bad jumper and think "he will never shoot like KD so he will be a bust" ... people think waaaay too black and white. Yes he likley will never be a "good" shooter.. but with all his other skills beeing an "ok" shooter(like 30-33% from Three) would be more then enough to keep defenses honest.

[Dcebucks11]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/685895216264560640[/tweet]

What about this jumper is beautiful? This is the definition of an ugly jumper lol. He shoots it on his way down

You people go way too far with bashing his Jumper...
Kidd-Gilchrist would be the definition of an Ugly Jumper..

Bens shot is far from perfect but he has no hitch in it and its fundamentally ok. with a proper shooting Coach its totally fixable at least to a level where he can be an "ok" shooter.

People hear he has a bad jumper and think "he will never shoot like KD so he will be a bust" ... people think waaaay too black and white. Yes he likley will never be a "good" shooter.. but with all his other skills beeing an "ok" shooter(like 30-33% from Three) would be more then enough to keep defenses honest.

I think Simmons is gonna be amazing but his jumper is ugly, lets be honest.. Shooting on the way down, legs hanging in the air.. That's awful form... Luckily for him, he doesn't need a good jumper.. He's got amazing speed and size and ball handling / passing

[crazy_me_87]

I think Simmons is gonna be amazing but his jumper is ugly, lets be honest.. Shooting on the way down, legs hanging in the air.. That's awful form... Luckily for him, he doesn't need a good jumper.. He's got amazing speed and size and ball handling / passing

If you "like" his form or if its "pretty" or "ugly" doesnt say anything about his potential ability to become an average shooter wich would be more then enough for him.
His shot is not broken it needs finetuning by a NBA shooting Coach.

If a guy like Shawn Marion be a 33% shooter from three for his career Ben can do that too.
There are so many different "shooting forms" and very few have what you would call "perfekt form".. MOST Players get by with not optimal forms with practise and finetuning.

Why are so many people so adamant about a guy who has shown he can hit around or over 30% of his threes(in his HS Career and the LSU games in Australia) will NEVER develop ANY Jumper?

19yo Kids develop you know? they improve.. Why do you think almost everyone does have better shooting stats they age? Because with practice,NBA Shooting Coaches and experience your jumpshot is bound to get better.

Even a guy like Rondo is hitting 33% of his threes now.
A guy like Leonard who came into the League with almost NO Jumpshot who suddenly is one of the best Shooters
A guy like Ason Kidd who started developing a jumper and turned into Jason Kidd only once he turned 30..

Its not like players always stay what they are as College Freshman.. quite the opposite..

[splendidham]

Read an article recently where a whole bunch of pro scouts were asked various questions about Ben. Quite recent but can't recall where. Anyway, most of them agreed there were problems with his jump shot but all also agreed that it wasn't broken. I'll try find it, may have bookmarked it somewhere (but my bookmarks list is a shamble)


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[crazy_me_87]

Read an article recently where a whole bunch of pro scouts were asked various questions about Ben. Quite recent but can't recall where. Anyway, most of them agreed there were problems with his jump shot but all also agreed that it wasn't broken. I'll try find it, may have bookmarked it somewhere (but my bookmarks list is a shamble)


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would really appreceate if you find it!

[crazy_me_87]

was it this one?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2600060-nba-scouts-are-split-on-ben-simmons-only-imperfection

[KFL]

I'd have to go back and look since its been a while but I think Simmons jump shot kinda reminds me of Dominique Wilkins form. I remember as a kid trying to imitate Wilkins for fun.

[Euphonetiks]

I think Simmons is gonna be amazing but his jumper is ugly, lets be honest.. Shooting on the way down, legs hanging in the air.. That's awful form...

Fred Vinson will get that cleaned up in no time. No worries.

[Marcus]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?