Lonzo Ball

[atlantabbq99]

Ball had a good enough 3pt shot in college that he we a very very effective player in the pick and roll. The big question for Ball is if his 3pt shooting will transfer to the NBA. Shawn Marion had a weird shot, but was a slightly above average 3pt shooter in the NBA.

If Ball can hit a +38% clip from three in the NBA, then the defender will have to respect him on the pick and roll on the NBA level and Ball has more than enough ball handling skills to make the NBA pick and roll effective for him and his team.

If ball is only able to shoot 30% or below from three in the NBA, then he will not do well in the pick and roll, just like how Rubio is horrible in the pick and roll in the NBA.

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[toussaud]

honestly it pains me to see how people when gms cant see how painfully ovbious balls game does not translate to the nba


1 and this is big...hes slow af. hes not a quick twitch athlete. u can play elite defense on an elite pg and most still will have a quickness advantage. you can guard with ur backup small forward. penny, who was his height was really a freak of nature he could blow by guards smaller than him. ball gets his shots and angles because of uclas floor spacing


2 this is even bigger..hes never gonna be fast
. hes a quicker slightly more athletic kyle anderson who i think in reality is his best player comparison. hes heavy footed and never will be able to guard pgs atva high level


3. his release point is low. because i do beleve ball has elite feel for the game and almost elite vision and because he does make everyone around him better, u could still séll me on ball as a positionless floor general quaai ben simmons or greak freak
but this is a deal breaker. perfect shooting from ur own eyes, your shooting hand should let go of the ball above the backboard. he pushes the ball towards the goal. it works cause hes tall but its physically impossible for him to rise up on a pnr so now i know he has to pass and no hes not blowing by rubio if dont switch and no hes not blowing by or shooting over towns and well there goes my offense. hell get his threes in the regular season cause no one cares but playoffs when they chest guard u +he wont stand a chance

4. he cant play a lick of defense

his skills tanslate to college cause hes tall with good handle and good paaseé but his flaws are painfully ovbious. to the point i legit think everyone is using him as a smoke screen. i think he falls to 5 and i think thats way too high

[SelfishPlayer]

honestly it pains me to see how people when gms cant see how painfully ovbious balls game does not translate to the nba


1 and this is big...hes slow af. hes not a quick twitch athlete. u can play elite defense on an elite pg and most still will have a quickness advantage. you can guard with ur backup small forward. penny, who was his height was really a freak of nature he could blow by guards smaller than him. ball gets his shots and angles because of uclas floor spacing


2 this is even bigger..hes never gonna be fast
. hes a quicker slightly more athletic kyle anderson who i think in reality is his best player comparison. hes heavy footed and never will be able to guard pgs atva high level


3. his release point is low. because i do beleve ball has elite feel for the game and almost elite vision and because he does make everyone around him better, u could still séll me on ball as a positionless floor general quaai ben simmons or greak freak
but this is a deal breaker. perfect shooting from ur own eyes, your shooting hand should let go of the ball above the backboard. he pushes the ball towards the goal. it works cause hes tall but its physically impossible for him to rise up on a pnr so now i know he has to pass and no hes not blowing by rubio if dont switch and no hes not blowing by or shooting over towns and well there goes my offense. hell get his threes in the regular season cause no one cares but playoffs when they chest guard u +he wont stand a chance

4. he cant play a lick of defense

his skills tanslate to college cause hes tall with good handle and good paaseé but his flaws are painfully ovbious. to the point i legit think everyone is using him as a smoke screen. i think he falls to 5 and i think thats way too high

Lonzo Ball is one if the fastest 6'6" players that I have ever seen right up there with Jordan and Sprewell.

[atlantabbq99]

I don't know where all these "Ball is slow" is coming from. When i watch Ball in UCLA he is obviously one of the fastest players, and all the scouts unanimously say Ball is fast and athletic, but for the sake of argument i'll concede the fact that "Ball is slow".

To the very very few critics who say "Ball is slow", my response is "so what..."

I agree, Ball is no Vince Carter, but "so what..." Who cares if a player is slow? Gary Payton is not athletic, John Stockton, Nash, Curry, Kyle Lowry are no Francis or Iverson, but all are still good to great players and only because of IQ, court vision, ball handling and shooting.

Kyle Lowry has been very successful, even though he is slow and not athletic. At worst cast, if Ball only turns into a 6'6 Lowry, that would still be a very very good play and All Star PG.

[RightToCensor]

2 this is even bigger..hes never gonna be fast
. hes a quicker slightly more athletic kyle anderson who i think in reality is his best player comparison. hes heavy footed and never will be able to guard pgs atva high level

Might I ask how you came up with this assumption because everyone else in the world that has watched Lonzo knows he's fast as hell and can jump with the best guards in the league.

[Lalouie]

honestly it pains me to see how people when gms cant see how painfully ovbious balls game does not translate to the nba


1 and this is big...hes slow af. hes not a quick twitch athlete. u can play elite defense on an elite pg and most still will have a quickness advantage. you can guard with ur backup small forward. penny, who was his height was really a freak of nature he could blow by guards smaller than him. ball gets his shots and angles because of uclas floor spacing


2 this is even bigger..hes never gonna be fast
. hes a quicker slightly more athletic kyle anderson who i think in reality is his best player comparison. hes heavy footed and never will be able to guard pgs atva high level

ok... this proves you have a personal gripe with lonzo. either you despise lavar or lonzo spoiled the season of your favorite team.

[sikma42]

This guy from Lakersfilmroom did a good breakdown on Lonzo

http://lakerfilmroom.com/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-offense/

Watch on YouTube

[Derento]

Kyle Anderson is legit the slowest NBA player I've every seen lol.
He's slow for a NBA PF.
Ball physically is more similar to guy like KCP,MCW,Fournier.

[nolang1]

Ball had a good enough 3pt shot in college that he we a very very effective player in the pick and roll. The big question for Ball is if his 3pt shooting will transfer to the NBA. Shawn Marion had a weird shot, but was a slightly above average 3pt shooter in the NBA.

If Ball can hit a +38% clip from three in the NBA, then the defender will have to respect him on the pick and roll on the NBA level and Ball has more than enough ball handling skills to make the NBA pick and roll effective for him and his team.

If ball is only able to shoot 30% or below from three in the NBA, then he will not do well in the pick and roll, just like how Rubio is horrible in the pick and roll in the NBA.

Watch on YouTube

Rubio still sees the game well enough that he has ranked 17th and 12th among point guards in offensive real plus-minus the past 2 seasons. That would put him ahead of players like Jeff Teague and Jrue Holiday. In addition, the Timberwolves had an offensive rating of 110.7 when he was in the game (with Towns in the game it only bumps up to 111.6 so it's not like KAT is singlehandedly making Rubio look good).

So even if Ball can't shoot off the dribble he can still be a great offensive player by simply being a version of Rubio who shoots well enough on uncontested threes that the defense can't help off of him.

[toussaud]

even if ball is as fast as jordan or sprewell, which i assure you he isn't close lol, he's still too slow to be an elite point guard. jordan in his prime couldn't do a god damn thing with isiah. offensivly or defensivly.

there are only 2 players 6'5 or taller the last 30 years who had the quick twitch muscles to be a star at point guard. Penny and Shaun Livingston.

[toussaud]

the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.

[Dr Positivity]

The transition thing scares me. As far as I'm concerned Ball should be drafted as a halfcourt PG only. Unless you have freakish athletes on your team you can't just build a transition system around a player because you want to. Like on the Lakers, Ball, Russell and Ingram perimeter is going to be outrunning anyone. And that's before considering if they have a Zubacca to feed.

[nolang1]

the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.

I would put Patrick Beverley above Rubio as well, but I was specifically referring to the notion that Ball would be some kind of detriment to his team's offense if he can't shoot jumpers off the dribble. Also it's debatable that Rubio's a "game changer" on defense for the simple fact that he's a point guard and can't singlehandedly make up for bad defenders elsewhere in the lineup the way a great defensive center can.

Rubio has put together seasons where he's been one of the top 20-30 players in the league while shooting some of the worst percentages from the field in modern NBA history, so if Ball can at least become a slightly below-average defensive player (which will take a lot of improvement still) and space the floor when the ball isn't in his hands it's hard to foresee him being a bust for on-court reasons.

[Marcus]

Certain people will stick to narrative no matter how much statistical information and footage you provide. Don't see the upside and continually engaging these talking points tbh.

You're right. My bad.

[sikma42]

the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.

I also think Rubio is one of the greatest passing talents to ever come into the league (injuries and lack of shooting tough hamper it but his vision, tough, timing and decision making it elite all time level). Actually on a diff level than ball. I don't think it's a perfect comparison in that regard either. Additionally I'd say Rubio is and was at the same age a better ball handler


If they were in the same class, the consensus would be Rubio was a better passer

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[nybluemeadow]

the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.

Rubio's defense is competent at best. he is no way even close to an elite defender. I saw him twice this year facing Jeff Teague and Teague was just crushing Rubio's defense all game.

I don't watch alot of Rubio, but when i do, his defense usually looks pretty weak, and usually when i watch him play and defend an all star point guard, the other team's guard is able to score above his average.

I'll give Rubio props on his effort on defense, but his skills and athleticism just doesn't match his hustle .

[SelfishPlayer]

the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.

I also think Rubio is one of the greatest passing talents to ever come into the league (injuries and lack of shooting tough hamper it but his vision, tough, timing and decision making it elite all time level). Actually on a diff level than ball. I don't think it's a perfect comparison in that regard either. Additionally I'd say Rubio is and was at the same age a better ball handler


If they were in the same class, the consensus would be Rubio was a better passer

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There is nothing elite about Rubio's passing. An elite veteran PG passer would have gotten more out of that franchise. He is a great hunter of assists where he avoids attacking the basket, avoids finishing at the basket, all in favor of overpassing the basketball resulting in squandered opportunity. His lack of basket making skills leads to passivity that actually increases his assist numbers at the end of the day. It's fools gold similar to TJ McConnell. Ball has no aversion to finishing and shooting, his assists are real.

[sikma42]

the problem with comparing him to rubio is that rubio is the best, no worst ahn 2nd behind chris paul, defensive point guard in the NBA. Rubio is a game changer on defense. like, that's not even up for debate.

I also think Rubio is one of the greatest passing talents to ever come into the league (injuries and lack of shooting tough hamper it but his vision, tough, timing and decision making it elite all time level). Actually on a diff level than ball. I don't think it's a perfect comparison in that regard either. Additionally I'd say Rubio is and was at the same age a better ball handler


If they were in the same class, the consensus would be Rubio was a better passer

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

There is nothing elite about Rubio's passing. An elite veteran PG passer would have gotten more out of that franchise. He is a great hunter of assists where he avoids attacking the basket, avoids finishing at the basket, all in favor of overpassing the basketball resulting in squandered opportunity. His lack of basket making skills leads to passivity that actually increases his assist numbers at the end of the day. It's fools gold similar to TJ McConnell. Ball has no aversion to finishing and shooting, his assists are real.

I take it you aren't very familar with the TWolves and Ricky's career (the offense that he played in, the direction the team decided to move after the injury etc). That much is obvious.

But pre-injury...if you ever watched Ricky play, I find it hard to dispute he was a better passer and playmaker at the same age.

Actually, not sure if I should delete this post. Didn't realize you were the guy comparing Lonzo's speed to Michael Jordan.

[DanTown8587]

Lonzo at his worst seems like he's a rich man 3&D PG. He won't be all-NBA defense or anything but combine that with likely very good shooting and an ability to dribble, set up offense, etc that will make him a long-time NBA player in this league. If I see any issues with Lonzo, it's two fold

1. Does his frame hold up to the NBA game and if he does have to put on muscle, does his body hold up to that or does he have Rose/Penny like issues putting more weight on a wiry/bouncy frame?

2. How does he handle the pressures of his NBA career with his father and all of that noise? Especially if Lonzo stays in LA and has his father around him (and the team, coaching staff, media, etc) fairly consistently?

[CptCrunch]

For me, only one question needs to be answered.

Can Ball's transcendental passing translate to the NBA level. If it can, then we can chuck all the other questions out of the windows - his possibly average PG athleticism, his potential bad to average defense, his slow/low shot, Lavar's distractions off the court.