Shabazz is being under valued.

pfm · Post #81 » by **pfm** » Fri Jun 7, 2013 6:37 pm

He's been the most polarizing player in a while.

The haters only see his faults. The lovers only see his strengths.

UN-Owen · Post #82 » by **UN-Owen** » Sat Jun 8, 2013 4:11 pm

Fischella wrote:Where do you think he would finish as a player in this scale

Brandon Rush - Caron Butler - Paul Pierce

I think better than Caron and worse than Pierce.

That's a great value in this draft.

Ron Mercer - Corey Maggette

greenandgold · Post #83 » by **greenandgold** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 6:57 am

I don't believe there's ever been a successful NBA perimeter player with an ASB per 40 (assists, steals and blocks) as low as Shabazz's. Maybe he defies the odds, but it seems very, very unlikely he becomes a productive player.

I think the teams that are into analytics have probably removed Shabazz from their first round boards.

Very good chance he slips to late first, early second like Perry Jones last year.

Catchall · Post #84 » by **Catchall** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 10:01 am

Two mock drafts are showing Shabazz slipping to Utah at #14. As a Jazz fan, I have mixed feelings. He seems a bit selfish, coddled and 1-dimensional.

crgreen · Post #85 » by **crgreen** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 9:51 pm

greenandgold wrote:I don't believe there's ever been a successful NBA perimeter player with an ASB per 40 (assists, steals and blocks) as low as Shabazz's. Maybe he defies the odds, but it seems very, very unlikely he becomes a productive player.

I think the teams that are into analytics have probably removed Shabazz from their first round boards.

Very good chance he slips to late first, early second like Perry Jones last year.

Part of the curse of the new era of one-and-done, draft on potential only. There have been many if you compare apples to apples (Freshman year only stats). But they improved as sophs, Jrs. and seniors. And none were the leading freshman scorer or #9 Offensive rebounder among frosh.

Catchall · Post #86 » by **Catchall** » Sun Jun 9, 2013 10:02 pm

I get that Shabazz is a hard-nosed scorer who bulls his way to the rim and can shoot the jumper. The only question here is whether he'll be able to do that at the NBA level. He'll otherwise have to develop more refined skills and be like an Adrian Dantley or Mark Aguirre type.

But obviously the talent is there, and I've seen him as a Joe Johnson-type player with more drive and a bit less J.

pickIBL · Post #87 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:58 pm

Bazz aint being undervalued. He could go in the lotto (maybe) and Glen Rice Jr isn't even a lock for the 1st. But Rice could easily be the better pro.

Bazz will get his shot stuffed below the rim... Rice has a 40 inch plus vert. and finishes strong above the rim.

Bazz bullies below the rim... he's all left. Rice jumps over people. Bazz can shoot alright when he has time to get set. Rice can shoot off the bounce or in a catch in shoot. Rice has way more potential as a perimeter defender. Rice has a 6'9 wingspan and can play the 2 guard in the NBA. Bazz is an undersized 3.

I'd rather coach Rice.

Catchall · Post #88 » by **Catchall** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:06 am

As a Jazz fan, I'm more tempted by Giannis' length and versatility than Shabazz's me-first game.

crgreen · Post #89 » by **crgreen** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:57 pm

pickIBL wrote:Bazz aint being undervalued. He could go in the lotto (maybe) and Glen Rice Jr isn't even a lock for the 1st. But Rice could easily be the better pro.

Bazz will get his shot stuffed below the rim... Rice has a 40 inch plus vert. and finishes strong above the rim.

Bazz bullies below the rim... he's all left. Rice jumps over people. Bazz can shoot alright when he has time to get set. Rice can shoot off the bounce or in a catch in shoot. Rice has way more potential as a perimeter defender. Rice has a 6'9 wingspan and can play the 2 guard in the NBA. Bazz is an undersized 3.

I'd rather coach Rice.

Not sure I get your "Rice has a 6'9 wingspan" reference....Muhammad's wingspan is 2" wider at 6'11. His reach is is 3" longer (8.85" to 8.55 for Rice) As for Below the Rim - for both players, their no-step vertical reach and max vertical reach are within a 1/2" of each other. Their lane agility drill speeds are identical. Rice was a hair faster in the 3/4 sprint (by 0.07 seconds) and Shabazz was faster in the Modified Time drill (by 0.09). And, of course, one put up 13.0 pts and shot 45.2% FGs, 33.3% 3s and 60.6% free throws as a college Soph, the other got 17.9 pts, shot 46.3 FGs, 37.7 3s, and 71.1 Free thorws as a college Frosh.

I agree Rice COULD be initially better - after 2 years of college and then 48 games in the D-League last season - and Two Years OLder than Muhammad - he'd BETTER be better prepared. But I'd still certzainly take Shabazz.

pickIBL · Post #90 » by **pickIBL** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:40 pm

Ok a few comments.

First I think you need to look at what position these guys will play. Rice can end up as a 2... Bazz will need to play the 3. In straight line foot speed they are about the same. Lateral quickness easily goes to Rice if you watch them. No question there. Vertical goes to Rice easily. no step 33... max 40.5. bazz is 29.5 and 37. for whatever reason in game Rice is comfortable elevating over defenders and finishing... Bazz is not. that's what matters more than the numbers... i'm sure dahntay jones tested out as a better athlete than wade... but wade is the better in game finisher.

bazz is basically all left. he's only comfortable bullying for a shot or getting set shots... no idea if his range is anywhere close to nba ready.

rice is nba ready in general and that includes his 3 point shooting. rice can shoot off the dribble or set. he's a better passer... way better... and he's a way better finisher. I agree Bazz goes before Rice... but I'd rather coach Rice as Bazz looks like a black hole off the bench for some team. Rice looks like a starting 2 in this league if he keeps working and stays out of trouble.

Chitownbulls · Post #91 » by **Chitownbulls** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:28 pm

#1 ranked high school players end up being good to great nba players.

Check out the history....it tells you Shabazz should be really good

Hoopz Afrik · Post #92 » by **Hoopz Afrik** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:33 pm

Shabazz was vastly overrated early on so much so that he's not underrated. He'd be a great addition for almost every team who is out of the lottery and would be a great value at 14 and below if you ask me.

GREENE1148 · Post #93 » by **GREENE1148** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:22 pm

There is good history with the number 1 ranked high schoolers in the NBA... But if I'm not mistaken, most other highschoolers are graded on the premise that their age is CORRECTLY LISTED! If we knew he was 12 months older than he was, would he have been the number 1? Probably not

crgreen · Post #94 » by **crgreen** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:48 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:There is good history with the number 1 ranked high schoolers in the NBA... But if I'm not mistaken, most other highschoolers are graded on the premise that their age is CORRECTLY LISTED! If we knew he was 12 months older than he was, would he have been the number 1? Probably not

Of those in the top 20 ranked behind him last year, Mitch McGary is 5 months older. Ricardo Ledo is 2 months Older, Dajuan Coleman is 1 month Older. Kaleb Tarczewski is 2 months younger. Anthony Bennett is 4 months younger. Yogi Ferrell is 5 months younger. Amile Jefferson is 5 months younger.

Not that big of a deal.

Chitownbulls · Post #95 » by **Chitownbulls** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:43 pm

Shabazz is going to be a very good scorer in this league as well as a starter. Top 5 player in this draft.

Post #96 » by **jazzfan1971** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:05 am

I think he's going to be terrible. A poor man's Micheal Beasley. Will be washed out of the NBA by the end of his rookie contract.

I'm definitely not seeing what you folks are seeing. I see a guy who is a low efficiency scorer, who can only dribble with one hand, and thinks he's open even with 5 guys guarding him.

I'd pass on him at #14 for just about anyone. Seems like the opposite of everything I'd be looking for in a player.

Golabki · Post #97 » by **Golabki** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:31 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:#1 ranked high school players end up being good to great nba players.

Check out the history....it tells you Shabazz should be really good

They also usually end up being highschool aged, not college aged, when playing in highschool.

need4detroit · Post #98 » by **need4detroit** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:48 pm

Easily the most polarizing prospect in this draft.

Post #99 » by **pacers33granger** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:48 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:#1 ranked high school players end up being good to great nba players.

Check out the history....it tells you Shabazz should be really good

Wasn't Josh Selby ranked #1 out of high school? I know Jeremy Tyler was at one point, but may not have been at the end of his high school career. Josh Mcroberts was at one point too.

I think Shabazz will be a good player, but we have seen top ranked high school prospects be absolute busts before.

MalonesElbows · Post #100 » by **MalonesElbows** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:34 pm

jazzfan1971 wrote:I think he's going to be terrible. A poor man's Micheal Beasley. Will be washed out of the NBA by the end of his rookie contract.

I'm definitely not seeing what you folks are seeing. I see a guy who is a low efficiency scorer, who can only dribble with one hand, and thinks he's open even with 5 guys guarding him.

I'd pass on him at #14 for just about anyone. Seems like the opposite of everything I'd be looking for in a player.

Yep, almost all these type of guys end up in D League.