Noah Vonleh?

[The Prodigy]

Brian Skinner... I ran across that name today and immediately thought of Noah Vonleh.

vonleh has a nice stroke and can put the ball on the deck. he also has good touch around the rim with jump hooks with either hand. skinner was just a defender and rebounder with no touch, shot or ball skills.

Seriously. Where do people get these comparisons from?

[SelfishPlayer]

Brian Skinner... I ran across that name today and immediately thought of Noah Vonleh.

vonleh has a nice stroke and can put the ball on the deck. he also has good touch around the rim with jump hooks with either hand. skinner was just a defender and rebounder with no touch, shot or ball skills.

Skinner had many low post moves in college, just like Kenny Thomas. Things can change for the worse when facing NBA competition. Derrick Williams had a "nice stroke" in college, it hasn't translated well to the NBA. Vonleh is not a lock to have anything but his actual body carry over with him from the college level. Brian Skinner like Vonleh are big body fairly athletic PF/C types that can't pass the ball.

[ManualRam]

Brian Skinner... I ran across that name today and immediately thought of Noah Vonleh.

vonleh has a nice stroke and can put the ball on the deck. he also has good touch around the rim with jump hooks with either hand. skinner was just a defender and rebounder with no touch, shot or ball skills.

Skinner had many low post moves in college, just like Kenny Thomas. Things can change for the worse when facing NBA competition. Derrick Williams had a "nice stroke" in college, it has translated well in the NBA. Vonleh is not a lock to have anything but his actual body carry over with him from the college level.

no he didn't. skinner was a brute, a big-bodied, deep position player in college. his offensive game was more comparable to e.okafor's. he was never projected to be anything other than what he became.
kenny thomas was far more skilled compared to skinner because he had a post and face up game with a jumper too in college.
vonleh's coordination and foundation of skill are WAY higher than skinner's was at the same stage.
sure, vonleh could become another skinner...if he regresses and NEVER improves offensively. i'm betting on that not happening.

[SelfishPlayer]

vonleh has a nice stroke and can put the ball on the deck. he also has good touch around the rim with jump hooks with either hand. skinner was just a defender and rebounder with no touch, shot or ball skills.

Skinner had many low post moves in college, just like Kenny Thomas. Things can change for the worse when facing NBA competition. Derrick Williams had a "nice stroke" in college, it has translated well in the NBA. Vonleh is not a lock to have anything but his actual body carry over with him from the college level.

no he didn't. skinner was a brute, a big-bodied, deep position player in college. his offensive game was more comparable to e.okafor's. he was never projected to be anything other than what he became.
kenny thomas was far more skilled compared to skinner because he had a post and face up game with a jumper too in college.
vonleh's coordination and foundation of skill are WAY higher than skinner's was at the same stage.
sure, vonleh could become another skinner...if he regresses and NEVER improves offensively. i'm betting on that not happening.

Skinner was drafted in 1998, the same year as Dirk Nowitzki. The concept of "stretch 4" didn't exist, nor did a defensive 3 second rule. The game has changed to become more perimeter oriented and AAU basketball is more popular amongst the youth than back then. So you have a Noah Vonleh shooting college 3's on a small sample size pretty well. he made 16 total 3 point shots in 30 college games. That's a college 3 point shot, not an NBA 3 point shot. That's a midrange or "bad 2" in the NBA. As for Brian Skinner being a "brute" I don't know what that means to you. So I'll leave that as your opinion. He had low post basketball moves in college, drop steps, up and unders, etc... Did he shoot turn around fadeaways in college? Not really, so if the physical nature of how he used his close to the basket low post moves against college players means that he was a "brute," then I agree. Brute is good, especially if the brute can pass and get their teammates involved. Vonleh and Skinner both lack that ability.

[Notanoob]

Not sure what I think of him . To me he is the reason why players should stay in school. Good body but poor skills.

Good shooter for 7' 18 year old.

Too small of a sample size to expect him to be a shooter in the NBA.

What does he give you if he can't shoot should be the question you ask yourself.

I've cooled on him recently. I'm just not sure what this guy really brings you, outside of "he hit a good % of 3s, even though he barely took any" and rebounding.

He's long, but he doesn't have exception reach due to being all neck.

He's not a fantastic leaper (combine results be damned), or really quick footed (not slow-footed, but Randle is quicker).

For a guy who's being billed as a super-raw prospect, his physical tools don't blow me away, so I'm not sure why he's so hyped up by people. Usually guys they call raw are freak athletes, and Vonleh isn't.

Skill-wise, he's shown flashes of good things in all aspects, but they're just flashes in low minutes. How confident is everyone in him developing all the varied aspects of his game? The only thing that we can be sure about is his rebounding, and that isn't someone you spend a lottery pick on if he isn't an incredible athlete.

[ManualRam]

Skinner had many low post moves in college, just like Kenny Thomas. Things can change for the worse when facing NBA competition. Derrick Williams had a "nice stroke" in college, it has translated well in the NBA. Vonleh is not a lock to have anything but his actual body carry over with him from the college level.

no he didn't. skinner was a brute, a big-bodied, deep position player in college. his offensive game was more comparable to e.okafor's. he was never projected to be anything other than what he became.
kenny thomas was far more skilled compared to skinner because he had a post and face up game with a jumper too in college.
vonleh's coordination and foundation of skill are WAY higher than skinner's was at the same stage.
sure, vonleh could become another skinner...if he regresses and NEVER improves offensively. i'm betting on that not happening.

Skinner was drafted in 1998, the same year as Dirk Nowitzki. The concept of "stretch 4" didn't exist, nor did a defensive 3 second rule. The game has changed to become more perimeter oriented and AAU basketball is more popular amongst the youth than back then. So you have a Noah Vonleh shooting college 3's on a small sample size pretty well. he made 16 total 3 point shots in 30 college games. That's a college 3 point shot, not an NBA 3 point shot. That's a midrange or "bad 2" in the NBA. As for Brian Skinner being a "brute" I don't know what that means to you. So I'll leave that as your opinion. He had low post basketball moves in college, drop steps, up and unders, etc... Did he shoot turn around fadeaways in college? Not really, so if the physical nature of how he used his close to the basket low post moves against college players means that he was a "brute," then I agree.

so what if the stretch 4 wasn't a viable concept in the late 90s? you compare their individual skillsets and vonleh's is still way ahead of skinner's at the same stage. for as long as vonleh's been on the scene as a prospect he was always seen as a inside outside threat. he did the majority of his work on the interior with his length, activity and touch around the rim, but he always had the capability to step out, hit jumpers and put the ball on the floor. he was getting comparisons to mashburn in HS because of his build and skillset. many were projecting him to be a future SF because of the skills he showed in HS. that narrative changed once he stepped onto the indiana campus and put on 20-25 lbs in one off-season in advance of being their starting C, in the process changing his body from that of a skinny tweener F to one of legit PF size. as a starting C he was asked to play on the block, in the paint and not in space, but he did have the capability to play in space.

skinner's offensive skill was always rudimentary, but he was able to get away with that in college because of his sheer size and strength. he hit the ground running in college because of his physical maturity, as well as starting his career in a weak ass and now defunct SWAC conference. his offensive game never extended beyond the low block and it never consisted of anything more advanced than deep hooks or drop steps. he was never projected to be an offensive threat beyond college.

[SelfishPlayer]

he was never projected to be an offensive threat beyond college.

Wait, they both have the same impact offensively. Vonleh is a contemporary AAU version of Skinner. You are overrating some of the AAU skills that Vonleh has while overlooking the rest of the boxes that he isn't checking off. They both have poor feel for the game of basketball. Vonleh dribbled the ball up the floor in HS a great deal, that obviously left an impression on you. That was reduced in college and certainly will be more reduced in the NBA. You are overlooking that he doesn't throw outlet passes well at all. That's a more impactful skill for the position that he will be playing in the NBA over his AAU style full court forays to the basket that will happen very infrequently for him against NBA level defenders. You are overvaluing AAU skills over what he needs to be able to do at his position in the NBA. Outlet passes, passes out of double teams, hitting cutters, all of the finer points of the game he needs to improve on if he ever is going to really be a more impactful player as a stretch 4 on the NBA level than Skinner "the brute." See Skinner's lack of passing ability mattered less in that era because organizations had a place for a black hole "brute." I don't see much of a place in the NBA for a stretch 4 black hole. That's assuming that he can even stretch the floor in the NBA.

[ManualRam]

he was never projected to be an offensive threat beyond college.

blah blah

stupid comparison. doesn't need to be addressed more than it already has.

[SelfishPlayer]

he was never projected to be an offensive threat beyond college.

blah blah

stupid comparison. doesn't need to be addressed more than it already has.

I never compared the two until you responded.

[ManualRam]

Brian Skinner... I ran across that name today and immediately thought of Noah Vonleh.

i'm sure you'll argue semantics.

[SelfishPlayer]

Brian Skinner... I ran across that name today and immediately thought of Noah Vonleh.

i'm sure you'll argue semantics.

Semantics: the study of the meanings of words and phrases in language.

Perhaps you should engage in that more. You'll probably make fewer reading comprehension errors that lead to posting assumptions. You know what they say about those that assume, or maybe you don't.. I wouldn't want to assume and make myself one...

[ManualRam]

Brian Skinner... I ran across that name today and immediately thought of Noah Vonleh.

i'm sure you'll argue semantics.

Semantics: the study of the meanings of words and phrases in language.

Perhaps you should engage in that more. You'll probably make fewer reading comprehension errors that lead to posting assumptions. You know what they say about those that assume, or maybe you don't.. I wouldn't want to assume and make myself one...

i engage as much as needed.

[Orlwillbeback]

he is rated about 4-8 spots higher than he should be because of his age and combine. I'd take both Gordon and randle before this guy.

[Orlwillbeback]

he reminds me of jason thompson

[Dukenukem23]

I think he's going to be a solid player, top 10 player from this draft. He's a little overrated right now because of the baseball mits he calls hands and the rest of the metrics but he will have a fine career and I wouldn't hesitate to draft him after pick 6 or 7.

[OrlandoDream]

This is my darkhorse of the draft.

[Notanoob]

I think he's going to be a solid player, top 10 player from this draft. He's a little overrated right now because of the baseball mits he calls hands and the rest of the metrics but he will have a fine career and I wouldn't hesitate to draft him after pick 6 or 7.

Has anyone noticed that despite having such big hands he can't catch the ball? Dude is a TO machine.

[McStunna]

His best case is Jermaine O'Neal imo.

[Sonrisen]

This is my darkhorse of the draft.

Based on what? Becauase it's certainly not anything that he's actually done on the court. Year, after year, after year, people hype up players due to "potential" overlooking the most important factor; actual on the court performance, or lack thereof.

[ManualRam]

I think he's going to be a solid player, top 10 player from this draft. He's a little overrated right now because of the baseball mits he calls hands and the rest of the metrics but he will have a fine career and I wouldn't hesitate to draft him after pick 6 or 7.

Has anyone noticed that despite having such big hands he can't catch the ball? Dude is a TO machine.

its not an issue of catching the ball. its about what he does after he catches it, not recognizing the help or exposing the ball. that comes with experience in the post.