All Things Luka Doncic

[burek3]

We shall see how he fares @ Eurobasket.

I believe Dragic can prove as a much better mentor/ball sharer than Llull.

[UcanUwill]

Doncic controls the game well, but I dont think that equals amazing passing. I mean he makes good passes, but thats about all I can say. Guy like Rubio can find teammate out of the blue at times, Doncic cant do that on regular bases.

[Mirotic12]

Oh and by the way - the first moment of truth should come on the 3rd of September. Eurobasket 2017 - Geeece vs Slovenia. I guess we should see some Antetokounmpo vs Doncic in that game.

Why? They play at totally different positions. Giannis isn't a point guard, despite what people claim. Doncic isn't going to be one either, not with Dragic on his team. Giannis will probably be a 3 or 4, and Doncic probably a 2.

Doncic controls the game well, but I dont think that equals amazing passing. I mean he makes good passes, but thats about all I can say. Guy like Rubio can find teammate out of the blue at times, Doncic cant do that on regular bases.

Doncic is a Diamantidis type of passer / play maker. Some people in Europe believe that is the best of the best, because a lot of European basketball teaches only to be that type of passer and play maker as proper and correct play.

In reality though, guys like Rubio, Huertas, Spanoulis, Teodosic, Papaloukas...those are much better passers and creators. They can simply do it through their own creation.

Then there are guys like Llull, S. Rodriguez, Diamantidis, Heurtel, Prigioni, Zisis, and Jasikevicius, that do almost everything through screens.....great at passing in that way, but not so creative over all.

Doncic is something between the Diamantidis and Zisis type passer and creator.

[Mirotic12]

double post

[Thespianoid]

He is elite at reading the game and controlling tempo, but he is no superstar passer.

That basically makes you a superstar passer in the NBA though. Everything else is flair. If you can read the game at a ridiculously high level and manage a team/game then you're already up there when it comes to passing.

What's left is the player's scoring ceiling and athleticism so that they're more than just a passing threat. You have to be able to punish every way the defense might attempt to play you if you are to become a star.

[SportsGuy8]

Doncic controls the game well, but I dont think that equals amazing passing. I mean he makes good passes, but thats about all I can say. Guy like Rubio can find teammate out of the blue at times, Doncic cant do that on regular bases.

Doncic is a Diamantidis type of passer / play maker. Some people in Europe believe that is the best of the best, because a lot of European basketball teaches only to be that type of passer and play maker as proper and correct play.

In reality though, guys like Rubio, Huertas, Spanoulis, Teodosic, Papaloukas...those are much better passers and creators. They can simply do it through their own creation.

Then there are guys like Llull, S. Rodriguez, Diamantidis, Heurtel, Prigioni, Zisis, and Jasikevicius, that do almost everything through screens.....great at passing in that way, but not so creative over all.

Doncic is something between the Diamantidis and Zisis type passer and creator.

I've said this quite a few times already, but Doncic is going to have something that the majority of listed players severely lacked, mostly because they just weren't strong enough - passing out of post-ups. It's something that can truly elevate his passing game above the levels of the likes of Rubio, Teodosic etc., even though he might not be as gifted of a passer as them.

It can be truly deadly, as shown by Jason Kidd, for example, or Andre Miller, who basically made a career out of it. And they were both much shorter than Doncic ... I think that this, along with P'n'Rs, is going to end up being the main weapon of his game, and is going to be the thing that elevates him to star levels.

It's also the main reason why Draymond Green isn't a negative on the offensive end. It's just so easy, you get so many easy opportunities for great passes if there's lots of movement, but so few players actually use it. Mostly because best passers usually aren't strong enough.

[Thespianoid]

Watch on YouTube

;t=335s

the following sentiment isn't tied to this post specifically...

but you know the saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity"?

its a huge lie. there's a threshold, and everything past that threshold is extremely negative. Something to keep in mind.

[pacersGM]

Doncic is made for the euroleague level. made to be an absolute crafty euroleague all time legend.

but the nba is a different beast. the nba is a role player league. / freaks - difference makers (lebron, kd, curry, anthony davis, KAT, giannis, westbrook, harden ... )

defensive specialists (the ones you almost didnt know about until the playoffs come around) - pat beverly, avery bradley, ( + a ton of overpaid one dimensional players).

shooters (korver, reddick, ingles ...)
----------------------------

now where do you see doncic fit in the nba in 5 years?
difference maker - i doubt that, wont happen 95% - to slow, to average
a defensive specialist - wont happen
shooter - maybe, could happen
point guard, point forward on a passing team? could happen, could be a 6th man, starter, with normal, solid numbers

is he worth a top 5 pick? i guess not.

he is the type of player with bodiroga smarts and iq, who could embarasse carmelo anthony and such in 1 or 2 games during a tournament, but didnt have the athletic ability to hang with then for 82 games.

forget him beeing a 1 or 2 option on a team. no team will rely on a average athletic white point forward, without a killer instinct scoring knack, and no opposing team will be affraid of such a 1-2 option.

[XTraderXL]

How do you figure he doesnt have a scoring knack? The guy played for Real Madrid, where his offensive game is severely limited. When he was playing youth competitions, he was regularly the best scorer of his team and had 50+ point games at times. If you put any other guy his age on Reals team, they would not average more than Doncic so by your logic nobody in his class has a scoring knack. Wait for him to have a bigger role on the team and then you can judge if he is a good scorer or not.

Besides, you wrote this a while back: "Jiri welsch was a generational talent." That says it all about your talent evaluation LOL

[ItsThatEasy]

Doncic is made for the euroleague level. made to be an absolute crafty euroleague all time legend.

but the nba is a different beast. the nba is a role player league. / freaks - difference makers (lebron, kd, curry, anthony davis, KAT, giannis, westbrook, harden ... )

defensive specialists (the ones you almost didnt know about until the playoffs come around) - pat beverly, avery bradley, ( + a ton of overpaid one dimensional players).

shooters (korver, reddick, ingles ...)
----------------------------

now where do you see doncic fit in the nba in 5 years?
difference maker - i doubt that, wont happen 95% - to slow, to average
a defensive specialist - wont happen
shooter - maybe, could happen
point guard, point forward on a passing team? could happen, could be a 6th man, starter, with normal, solid numbers

is he worth a top 5 pick? i guess not.

he is the type of player with bodiroga smarts and iq, who could embarasse carmelo anthony and such in 1 or 2 games during a tournament, but didnt have the athletic ability to hang with then for 82 games.

forget him beeing a 1 or 2 option on a team. no team will rely on a average athletic white point forward, without a killer instinct scoring knack, and no opposing team will be affraid of such a 1-2 option.

You've simplified the types of NBA players entirely too much.

What exactly makes someone a "difference maker"?

[reanimator]

How do you figure he doesnt have a scoring knack?

Underwhelming finisher, not a overly creative handler, no sign of a pull-up game....

[XTraderXL]

How do you figure he doesnt have a scoring knack?

Underwhelming finisher, not a overly creative handler, no sign of a pull-up game....

I think some of you keep forgetting he is playing with grown men, not kids and in one of the best teams in Europe at 18yo. How about wait another year and see how it goes before you claim all this stuff. If he was playing NCAA, his numbers would be doubled and then you would not be saying these things I guess.

The thing is we cant really compare him to the rest of his class because he plays against a much tougher competition and doesnt have the leading role on the team like other guys his age who play in HS, NCAA or Euro youth teams. We will all need to wait and see what he does this season with increased role and more freedom on offense.

[reanimator]

How do you figure he doesnt have a scoring knack?

Underwhelming finisher, not a overly creative handler, no sign of a pull-up game....

I think some of you keep forgetting he is playing with grown men, not kids and in one of the best teams in Europe at 18yo. How about wait another year and see how it goes before you claim all this stuff. If he was playing NCAA, his numbers would be doubled and then you would not be saying these things I guess

Doesn't matter what his production is....he hasn't shown tons of creativity as a handler, isn't an explosive leaper nor a pull-up.

[XTraderXL]

My point is that he would probably show more of all the mentioned minuses, if he played in a lower tier competition. I agree with the pull-up, he needs to show more of it. He can shoot the pull-up three so midrange pull-up should not be a problem. He showed some but he had many more opportunities to do so. I am sure he will improve on that and it will open up his game even more.

He is a 6-7, 230lb guy so he doesnt need to have Kyries handles to be effective. His handles are just fine and he will only improve. As far as leaping ability goes, he is not elite but he is not bad either. As his game is based on other things, I dont think this will be a big problem especially when he gets even stronger.

Also, he is not a finished product. The guy is still young, has 1 whole season to play in Europe before he even gets drafted and then whole summer of individual work in the US. He can and will improve on every aspect of his game for the next 5-6 years. He has been making huge improvements every season for the past 3 years and there is no reason not to think he will not keep it up.

This coming season should give us a much clearer picture of what he can do and what his place in the NBA could be.

[Mirotic12]

I've said this quite a few times already, but Doncic is going to have something that the majority of listed players severely lacked, mostly because they just weren't strong enough - passing out of post-ups. It's something that can truly elevate his passing game above the levels of the likes of Rubio, Teodosic etc., even though he might not be as gifted of a passer as them.

It can be truly deadly, as shown by Jason Kidd, for example, or Andre Miller, who basically made a career out of it. And they were both much shorter than Doncic ... I think that this, along with P'n'Rs, is going to end up being the main weapon of his game, and is going to be the thing that elevates him to star levels.

It's also the main reason why Draymond Green isn't a negative on the offensive end. It's just so easy, you get so many easy opportunities for great passes if there's lots of movement, but so few players actually use it. Mostly because best passers usually aren't strong enough.

Which is why I think most like Diamantidis as a passer. Diamantidis did a tremendous amount of damage from the low post, even sent Jason Kidd to the bench once in like 5 minutes, with his dominating in the low post. Not sure if Doncic has anywhere near the same physical tools as Diamantidis though. Diamantidis was really long (7-1 wingspan) and had a much stronger body.

How do you figure he doesnt have a scoring knack? The guy played for Real Madrid, where his offensive game is severely limited. When he was playing youth competitions, he was regularly the best scorer of his team and had 50+ point games at times. If you put any other guy his age on Reals team, they would not average more than Doncic so by your logic nobody in his class has a scoring knack. Wait for him to have a bigger role on the team and then you can judge if he is a good scorer or not.

Besides, you wrote this a while back: "Jiri welsch was a generational talent." That says it all about your talent evaluation LOL

Why would Doncic get a bigger role with his team though? He clearly already had too big of a role for his current level. Last year was like some kind of experiment by Laso. He smartly hid Doncic as a point guard on offense, which helped him shoot over smaller players and pass over smaller players, and he had him guarding mainly point guards or smaller two guards, and combo guards, which helped him defensively, so he didn't have to guard small forwards that are too strong for him.

And just being in one of the best and deepest teams, of course helps a young player tremendously. With that being said, Doncic was clearly not ready for any serious basketball. As soon as it came to the real serious basketball, and was about actually winning something (EuroLeague Final Four and ACB Finals), Doncic was basically totally useless to his team. As any 18 year old would have been at such levels.

Real Madrid isn't in the business of developing some teenager to play as a teenager, they want to actually win titles. Not going to happen with an 18 year old kid, as they learned last season, and very unlikely with a 19 year old kid also (Doncic next season). They need to have actual veteran players that can handle playoff level basketball in their team.

The chances Doncic has a bigger role in his team next season seem unlikely. It's pretty obvious also when Real Madrid made the decision to bring back Facundo Campazzo (who should be the 2nd point guard), and then also bring in Fabian Caseur, who should probably cover a lot of time at SG. They don't bring back Campazzo, and then sign a free agent guard like Caseur, if they intend to increase Doncic's role.

If anything, they probably intend to do like I said last season - move him to SF, where they have totally washed up has beens like Rudy and Maciulis (both should just retire already), and then Jeff Taylor, who is a pure role player, that can only dunk, play some defense, and occasionally hit a 3 pointer.

Regardless, Doncic playing 20 minutes a game at SF next season won't be a bigger role in the team, as compared to playing 19 minutes a game, as a point guard. They can't win anything serious with a teenager running the team for half the game.

[pacersGM]

How do you figure he doesnt have a scoring knack? The guy played for Real Madrid, where his offensive game is severely limited. When he was playing youth competitions, he was regularly the best scorer of his team and had 50+ point games at times. If you put any other guy his age on Reals team, they would not average more than Doncic so by your logic nobody in his class has a scoring knack. Wait for him to have a bigger role on the team and then you can judge if he is a good scorer or not.

Besides, you wrote this a while back: "Jiri welsch was a generational talent." That says it all about your talent evaluation LOL

did i say that or did come from one of the most respected draft experts? i suggest you check the facts before you talk

[pacersGM]

You've simplified the types of NBA players entirely too much.

What exactly makes someone a "difference maker"?

yes i did simplify the nba types. but it is a fact the nba is another type of game then europe. and doncic is in my opinion made for europleague legend status and a solid at most nba career.

a nba difference maker is someone who can get his team 40 wins almost by himself. it doesnt mean he can carry a team to a championship by himself. the closes to that was lebron james losing in the finals 3 years ago without kevin love, irving.

can doncic become a nba difference maker? in my opinion, not a chance.

[pacersGM]

How do you figure he doesnt have a scoring knack?

Underwhelming finisher, not a overly creative handler, no sign of a pull-up game....

I think some of you keep forgetting he is playing with grown men, not kids and in one of the best teams in Europe at 18yo. How about wait another year and see how it goes before you claim all this stuff. If he was playing NCAA, his numbers would be doubled and then you would not be saying these things I guess.

The thing is we cant really compare him to the rest of his class because he plays against a much tougher competition and doesnt have the leading role on the team like other guys his age who play in HS, NCAA or Euro youth teams. We will all need to wait and see what he does this season with increased role and more freedom on offense.

luke kennard is averaging 20 ppg and look where he was drafted? you think doncic would get 25 ppg at duke? forget about it. i dont compare kennard with doncic, but doncic wouldnt be scoring 25 ppg a night at duke even if he is getting 8 in euroleague. thats just not that type of a player he is. hes not a scorer

[SportsGuy8]

I honestly think that Doncic is more suited for the NBA than he is for Euro(league) basketball, at least offensively. Just look at Rubio. He's also not an elite athlete, yet he's a much better NBA player than he was a FIBA player.

When you're a passer, being surrounded by better athletes and faster game goes both ways. Sure, there are negatives, but on the other hand you also benefit a lot from having such teammates you can pass the ball to. When you combine that with bigger courts and rules that clearly hugely benefit offensive players ... I just don't see how he's going to fail offensively.

Defense is another story, obviously. But you can cover/hide a lot there just by being smart, a willing defender and in Doncic's case also strong. Sure he's going to get beat often when he's up against super fast and quick players, but he should be above average in other defensive aspects.

[SportsGuy8]

I've said this quite a few times already, but Doncic is going to have something that the majority of listed players severely lacked, mostly because they just weren't strong enough - passing out of post-ups. It's something that can truly elevate his passing game above the levels of the likes of Rubio, Teodosic etc., even though he might not be as gifted of a passer as them.

It can be truly deadly, as shown by Jason Kidd, for example, or Andre Miller, who basically made a career out of it. And they were both much shorter than Doncic ... I think that this, along with P'n'Rs, is going to end up being the main weapon of his game, and is going to be the thing that elevates him to star levels.

It's also the main reason why Draymond Green isn't a negative on the offensive end. It's just so easy, you get so many easy opportunities for great passes if there's lots of movement, but so few players actually use it. Mostly because best passers usually aren't strong enough.

Which is why I think most like Diamantidis as a passer. Diamantidis did a tremendous amount of damage from the low post, even sent Jason Kidd to the bench once in like 5 minutes, with his dominating in the low post. Not sure if Doncic has anywhere near the same physical tools as Diamantidis though. Diamantidis was really long (7-1 wingspan) and had a much stronger body.

Or somewhat of a mix of Diamantidis and Papaloukas.

Yes, Diamantidis had a freakish wingspan (the most underrated physical "tool"), which changes a lot. Doncic is taller and heavier, though, so he has potential to be a lot stronger. If his body keeps progressing he's going to be a perimeter-tank, something I don't think we have ever seen in a European player (at least not among the top players). Papaloukas is the only one that comes close, unless I'm forgetting someone.

With that being said, Doncic was clearly not ready for any serious basketball. As soon as it came to the real serious basketball, and was about actually winning something (EuroLeague Final Four and ACB Finals), Doncic was basically totally useless to his team. As any 18 year old would have been at such levels.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge him on that. Euroleague teams played almost an NBA-like schedule, it was expected that he's going to eventually hit the so-called "rookie wall" as it's called in the NBA, I was actually surprised it didn't happen sooner. Last season was a struggle even for many veterans, while Doncic had to go through it while being only 17 and 18.

Note that I'm not saying that was for sure the main reason for his late-season failures, but it's quite possible that his body was drained by then, severely influencing his play, so we really shouldn't draw too many conclusions from his late-season play.