James Wiseman

[TB]

To me Whiteside is the clear and away obvious comparison.

Everyone else has drastic differences in size/skill/athleticism... DAJ and Chandler were way more athletic but purely dunkers. Bosh was way more skilled and PF specific. KAT and Ayton already showed go-to post and mid post skillsets.

The Whiteside we now see in the NBA looks alot like Wiseman from a Size, Athleticism, and Skillset standpoint. Drafting Wiseman is simply up to the interviews and workouts to determine if you think you are getting Whiteside, or a player that takes Whitesides profile and actually maximizes it with improved bball iq and skill development.

I think it's as basic a concept as that, which is why i'd still have Wiseman as the number 1 pick. A floor of Whiteside isn't awful. But a version of that player that expands on the potential is easily worth the 1st pick in a weaker draft.

[No-Man]

DAJ offensive profile is similar to Tyson Chandler and Mitchell Robinson, statistically. A useful offensive player for sure and a ceiling raiser next to great offensive players, but hardly one of the best for his position.

He was the best offensive big in the league for a couple years by every metric, I don't care about his skill level, he just was

[The-Power]

DAJ offensive profile is similar to Tyson Chandler and Mitchell Robinson, statistically. A useful offensive player for sure and a ceiling raiser next to great offensive players, but hardly one of the best for his position.

He was the best offensive big in the league for a couple years by every metric, I don't care about his skill level, he just was

The best offensive big by every metric for a couple years? Yeah, that's just not true and obvious, unnecessary hyperbole. But feel free to substantiate your argument with all the data you believe is out there. Not to mention that you should care about skill level as far as it impacts resilience and portability. If a player only works well in a very specific team-context that is not easily reproducible, I have a hard time calling him ‘the best’ as a general statement.

[GQ Hot Dog]

DAJ offensive profile is similar to Tyson Chandler and Mitchell Robinson, statistically. A useful offensive player for sure and a ceiling raiser next to great offensive players, but hardly one of the best for his position.

He was the best offensive big in the league for a couple years by every metric, I don't care about his skill level, he just was

The best offensive big by every metric for a couple years? Yeah, that's just not true and obvious, unnecessary hyperbole. But feel free to substantiate your argument with all the data you believe is out there. Not to mention that you should care about skill level as far as it impacts resilience and portability. If a player only works well in a very specific team-context that is not easily reproducible, I have a hard time calling him ‘the best’ as a general statement.

I remember those couple years DAJ was draining threes like Curry. The no look passes like Magic. Mid-range jumpers like Jordan. He sure fell off.

[UcanUwill]

DAJ offensive profile is similar to Tyson Chandler and Mitchell Robinson, statistically. A useful offensive player for sure and a ceiling raiser next to great offensive players, but hardly one of the best for his position.

He was the best offensive big in the league for a couple years by every metric, I don't care about his skill level, he just was

He was so good he was borderline unplayable in 4th. quarters because everyone would hack him and send to the line. If you do offense for defense subs for one possession, out of all centers you would sub DAJ for an offensive possession, since hes so great? ROFL, this got to be a trolling job of the grandest order.

[Knicks365247]

James Wiseman is a future HOFer. Bookmark post this post to bump it in 17 years folks.

[NYG]

My way too early hot take is Okongwu goes ahead of Wiseman by whenever the time is that the draft gets here. I think teams will value Okongwu’s floor over Wiseman’s ceiling as well as the specific defensive skills Okongwu brings.

[KGdaBom]

and we're all seeing how stupid that decision ended up being tho

As much as the NBA draft mind has evolved and is improving there is still plenty of old school mentality left in the minds of the decision makers. This as a thought process isn't something i think goes away anytime soon.

i mentioned this on draft thread on the GSW board, but since 2012 these are the bigs (centers) drafted top5:

Anthony Davis
Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Karl-Anthony Towns
Jahlil Okafor
Kristaps Porzingis
Joel Embiid
Deandre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Jaren Jackson Jr

who are the busts on there? Zeller, Len and Okafor...guys who are neither legitimate 3-level scorers/playmakers or defensive forces.

two guys are also kinda in that mold, Ayton and Bagley, and in a 2018 redraft there's a good chance neither goes top 5 again.

we're left with Davis, Towns, KP, Embiid, and JJJ

Davis, Embiid, and JJJ were seen as ELITE defenders, while Towns and KP were seen as elite multi-level scorers and offensive players.

so...the question is...does Wiseman project to be either 1) an elite defender or 2) an elite multi-level offensive player? if he doesn't, you really shouldn't be taking him that high in today's NBA.

IMO he projects to be both. So definite top 5 pick. My Wolves already have KAT and I would still draft Wiseman #1 overall. Mostly because all the other options suck.

[KGdaBom]

Wiseman looks good. I don't think he will be hitting 3s on any level, but I think he could be a rich man's Jermaine O'Neal.

A rich man's Jermaine O'Neal seems like an easy #1 overall choice in this draft.

[CptCrunch]

Anthony Davis
Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Karl-Anthony Towns
Jahlil Okafor
Kristaps Porzingis
Joel Embiid
Deandre Ayton
Marvin Bagley
Jaren Jackson Jr

Piggy backing on this post, which players are even franchise players?

Franchise players:
Embiid

Borderline low-tier franchise players:
Davis
Towns

All-star lites:
Ayton
Porzingis
JJJ
Bagley

Role players:
Len
Okafor
Zeller

And even if you look at the franchise players here, do they actually win you anything? Davis with his decade losing in New Orleans or Embiid and his inability to carry the Sixers in the playoffs. Towns with his historic offensive splits in Minnesota while losing with and without Jimmy.

It seems that modern basketball makes big PF/C's obsolete. Rockets don't even have starting center on their roster. Jeff Green and PJ Tucker masquerading as centers aren't centers. You got a franchise center, so what? I rather gamble on LaMelo or Edwards despite their huge flaws for the chance of getting that next super deluxe Mike Bibby or poor man's James Harden.

[amcoolio]

I would take Wiseman at 3 because I would gamble that there are a lot better guards/wings in next years draft, and with Wiseman's hands, rebounding and at-the-rim shotblocking he can at the very least play 25 mpg in the regular season

[nolang1]

Piggy backing on this post, which players are even franchise players?

Franchise players:
Embiid

Borderline low-tier franchise players:
Davis
Towns

All-star lites:
Ayton
Porzingis
JJJ
Bagley

Role players:
Len
Okafor
Zeller

And even if you look at the franchise players here, do they actually win you anything? Davis with his decade losing in New Orleans or Embiid and his inability to carry the Sixers in the playoffs. Towns with his historic offensive splits in Minnesota while losing with and without Jimmy.

It seems that modern basketball makes big PF/C's obsolete. Rockets don't even have starting center on their roster. Jeff Green and PJ Tucker masquerading as centers aren't centers. You got a franchise center, so what? I rather gamble on LaMelo or Edwards despite their huge flaws for the chance of getting that next super deluxe Mike Bibby or poor man's James Harden.

There's not much winning to go around in the NBA, especially if you're using "carry your team to a playoff series win when the other team has 4 of the 5 best players in the series" as the bar, which even someone like James Harden has never met. At some point you have to judge the players on their own merits rather than 'which NBA star is about the same size as them' and realize that James Harden as a prospect (even before knowing how his career would play out) was on a totally different level of efficiency than any of the guards in the class and would be this draft's unanimous #1 pick.

[jdzimme3]

I see potential to be Tyson Chandler with better offense.

[EvanZ]

Read on Twitter

This is his path to utility. Pair him with shooters on the wing and it could be lethal transition offense. Not as useful in the halfcourt or crunch time.

[Roddy B for 3]

I would take Wiseman at 3 because I would gamble that there are a lot better guards/wings in next years draft, and with Wiseman's hands, rebounding and at-the-rim shotblocking he can at the very least play 25 mpg in the regular season

Y'all have a small roster, I think adding Wiseman would be a huge value.

If Wiseman isn't there who do you want?

[amcoolio]

I would take Wiseman at 3 because I would gamble that there are a lot better guards/wings in next years draft, and with Wiseman's hands, rebounding and at-the-rim shotblocking he can at the very least play 25 mpg in the regular season

Y'all have a small roster, I think adding Wiseman would be a huge value.

If Wiseman isn't there who do you want?

Wiseman also pairs well with Washington and Bridges, with Washington being our best potential for stardom.

Honestly I don't know if he isn't there, I personally would go Hayes. I just can't trust Ball or Edwards' IQ or shooting stroke. I've had enough with bad shooting forms in Charlotte.

[Roddy B for 3]

I would take Wiseman at 3 because I would gamble that there are a lot better guards/wings in next years draft, and with Wiseman's hands, rebounding and at-the-rim shotblocking he can at the very least play 25 mpg in the regular season

Y'all have a small roster, I think adding Wiseman would be a huge value.

If Wiseman isn't there who do you want?

Wiseman also pairs well with Washington and Bridges, with Washington being our best potential for stardom.

Honestly I don't know if he isn't there, I personally would go Hayes. I just can't trust Ball or Edwards' IQ or shooting stroke. I've had enough with bad shooting forms in Charlotte.

What about Devote Graham? You don't think he's the long-term answer at PG?

[amcoolio]

I think Hayes and Graham would be the backcourt pairing of the future

[KGdaBom]

I find the Whiteside comparison is pretty laughable. Whiteside wasn’t anywhere near advanced at the same age. Same with the Gobert comparison. Maybe he comes in as current Whiteside and can only develop up from there, but long term I can’t see Whiteside. I don’t see busy potential, I see a two-way Center, which is valuable because there aren’t a lot of them. And the ones that are in the league are all-stars. Sure, he’s probably more of a rim protector than a switcher, but if he can do that at a high level and is diverse offensively he can be that type of player. In this draft is have him pretty high because it’s a weak class, but I see him doing pretty well.

Plenty of great defensive teams employ drop schemes.. if Wiseman can be a dominant drop PnR defender + rim protector, who dominates the glass , finishes a high volume in the restricted area, and can close out games in the 4th quarter (since he can hit his FTs) all of those things are incredibly valuable to winning.

so IF he becomes a dominant rim protector, dominant PnR defender, dominant rebounder, who also finishes at an elite clip inside and can hit his FTs he will be valuable?

well, yea, of course. you're not really saying anything there tbh. that's like a J away from being Joel Embiid.

I think all of that is very likely.

[KGdaBom]

Wiseman is so obviously not going to be as impactful as Gobert has been if you are watching, and Bamba was obviously a pretty meh defensive prospect

We very clearly disagree about Wiseman overall, but I totally agree that it is very unlikely that Wiseman will become a better defender than Gobert. That said Wiseman could easily become a better player than Gobert. I think after Okongwu Wiseman is the most bust proof player in this draft.