Scoot Henderson

[EvanZ]

I just don't sense any sort of consistent logic here. If you aren't high on the kid's burst or shooting then just say that instead of arbitrary goalpost.

I already did say that. It wasn't my point about scoring a certain number of points. I was just correcting your false claim about someone else's point.

[reanimator]

So you have sparse data yet have deemed your arbitrary baselines as indicative of poor play.

I think amount of possessions is relevant but also so is the quality of competition. And no, I don't believe the SEC is fielding G league quality comp on a game to game basis. This is of course not even accounting for the age gap.

That said, does Scoot has some questions as a scorer? Sure, but not because he had an efficient 14 pt game where he generated a ton of looks for his team without turning over nor because he isn't scoring 40 per night which is something no one in his position has done historically.

You seem to be all over the place man. You are trying to say competition is better, when it is clearly much easier to score in the GLeague.

Also, confusing why you want to limit the data set to like 10 guys who were 19 yrs old predraft....

When I can point to 100 guys who are 19-20 post draft that are putting up better numbers than Scoot. Does being drafted automatically make them better at basketball overnight? You expect someone like Minott who was 45th pick to be better than Scoot simply because the Wolves used a draft pick on him?

Bryce McGowens is averaging 22 ppg in the gleague this year including 2 30+ games. He averaged under 17 ppg in college.
Josh Minnot is averaging 20 ppg in gleague this year, he averaged 6 ppg in college.

Most guys average more in the gleague then they did in college, because it is easier to score. The floor is better spaced, the pace is faster, the shot clock is shorter meaning more possessions and overall guys care less about defense.

So yes, if Scoot played in college vs "weaker competition" I would still expect him to average fewer ppg then he currently does in the Gleague.

If it is so much easier to score then name the players who did this as a 19 year old predraft. I'm not sure where the rocket science is involved in this.

And yes, I actually expect a year of development + an NBA regiment to create massive gains for a player.

This is why I said your Hardy example you initially put forth sabotaged your whole argument. It makes no sense.

McGowens has played 4 G league games and Minnot 9. Scoot has played 15. I don't know why you keep bringing these guys up but I don't think I need to indulge this further if you are going to cite dudes who are older, in an NBA regiment, and play way less G league games skewing their averages.

[reanimator]

I just don't sense any sort of consistent logic here. If you aren't high on the kid's burst or shooting then just say that instead of arbitrary goalpost.

I already did say that. It wasn't my point about scoring a certain number of points. I was just correcting your false claim about someone else's point.

Except his point makes no sense no matter what the semantics are. He did score 30 and the best comparable prospect since the inception of Ignite has not done that. Won't even get into the arbitrary nature of every argument made so far like why 30 and not 25, but mostly because I know the answer already.

[mattao313]

If Scoot is not a dominant shooter and he is not dominating at the rim in a league bereft of 5's, what is he doing?

This is where I'm at, isn't a shooter but also is this elite athlete but isn't dominating in the paint.

Good prospect but isn't in his own tier imo

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

[EvanZ]

If Scoot is not a dominant shooter and he is not dominating at the rim in a league bereft of 5's, what is he doing?

This is where I'm at, isn't a shooter but also is this elite athlete but isn't dominating in the paint.

Good prospect but isn't in his own tier imo

Sent from my SM-A528B using RealGM mobile app

I think if you're a Pistons fan you should be praying for Miller or Hendricks lol (I mean if you don't get #1)

[JMAC3]

If it is so much easier to score then name the players who did this as a 19 year old predraft. I'm not sure where the rocket science is involved in this.

Here are all the guys that played in the gleague predraft.
2022
Dyson Daniels averaged 12 ppg, went 8th, averaging 4.4 ppg
Beuchamp averaged 15 ppg, went 24th, averaging 5.5 ppg
Hardy averaged 19 ppg, went 37th, averaging 6.6 ppg
Michael Foster averaged 15 ppg, went undrafted, not in the NBA
2021
Jalen Green - averaged 18 ppg, went 3rd, now averaging 21.7 ppg
Jonathan Kuminga averaged 16 ppg, went 7th, now averaging 9 ppg
Isiah Todd averaged 12 ppg, went 31st, now averaging 1.5 ppg
Daishen Nix averaged 9 ppg, went undrafted, now averaging 4 ppg

Sooooo yeah I have a sample size of 8 guys to choose from, 4 of them being first round picks. One of those picks averaging over 10 ppg. You want to limit all analysis to using this list of players for Scoot? And really since you already pointed out you want to exclude Hardy and Daniels for some reason. So even less guys. Is your point we can only compare him to Jalen Green? Because that seems kind of a pointless sample to use.

McGowens has played 4 G league games and Minnot 9. Scoot has played 15. I don't know why you keep bringing these guys up but I don't think I need to indulge this further if you are going to cite dudes who are older, in an NBA regiment, and play way less G league games skewing their averages.

This is wrong again. Minnot has played 19 games and McGowens has played 10 games.

I am not even saying those guys are better prospects than Scoot, but they are rookies who are 19 and 20 years old playing against the same competition as Scoot and averaging more ppg. Idk about you but I would expect the #2 player to average more ppg than guys that went in the 40s.

I expect Scoot to be on a Paolo, Ivey or Mathurin type of level. My opinion is those guys would be smashing the gleague right now. Idk why it is so wild to expect the same of Scoot.

[reanimator]

If it is so much easier to score then name the players who did this as a 19 year old predraft. I'm not sure where the rocket science is involved in this.

Here are all the guys that played in the gleague predraft.
2022
Dyson Daniels averaged 12 ppg, went 8th, averaging 4.4 ppg
Beuchamp averaged 15 ppg, went 24th, averaging 5.5 ppg
Hardy averaged 19 ppg, went 37th, averaging 6.6 ppg
Michael Foster averaged 15 ppg, went undrafted, not in the NBA
2021
Jalen Green - averaged 18 ppg, went 3rd, now averaging 21.7 ppg
Jonathan Kuminga averaged 16 ppg, went 7th, now averaging 9 ppg
Isiah Todd averaged 12 ppg, went 31st, now averaging 1.5 ppg
Daishen Nix averaged 9 ppg, went undrafted, now averaging 4 ppg

Sooooo yeah I have a sample size of 8 guys to choose from, 4 of them being first round picks. One of those picks averaging over 10 ppg. You want to limit all analysis to using this list of players for Scoot? And really since you already pointed out you want to exclude Hardy and Daniels for some reason. So even less guys. Is your point we can only compare him to Jalen Green? Because that seems kind of a pointless sample to use.

McGowens has played 4 G league games and Minnot 9. Scoot has played 15. I don't know why you keep bringing these guys up but I don't think I need to indulge this further if you are going to cite dudes who are older, in an NBA regiment, and play way less G league games skewing their averages.

This is wrong again. Minnot has played 19 games and McGowens has played 10 games.

I am not even saying those guys are better prospects than Scoot, but they are rookies who are 19 and 20 years old playing against the same competition as Scoot and averaging more ppg. Idk about you but I would expect the #2 player to average more ppg than guys that went in the 40s.

I expect Scoot to be on a Paolo, Ivey or Mathurin type of level. My opinion is those guys would be smashing the gleague right now. Idk why it is so wild to expect the same of Scoot.

I'm not making arbitrary baselines for G league prospects, so I am not limiting anything and simply assessing their games by what I see and normal basketball data analysis. You are welcome to include all these players but it will only make Scoot look better. I singled out Green because he is the only one who fares well as a scorer vs Scoot as a Ignite player.

I have no reason to down that 14/9/9 game. It was efficient and there is no previous precedent where I can look at that and be down on it.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631121/

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/mcgowbr01d.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/minotjo01d.html

Could totally be looking in the wrong place but thats what I see.

McGowens and Minnot born in 2002, Scoot 2004. I already explained that I value such a large age gap and being put into an NBA regiment so we will just differ on that.

[JMAC3]

My argument against Scoot isn't that he sucks either. I am merely pointing out he has flaws as a prospect and I am making a case where I think he should possibly go maybe 4th-6th instead of a lock for 2nd.

Yet anyone who utters he isn't the 2nd prospect gets called a hater because every mock draft has him 2nd so therefore that is where he should/will go.

[JMAC3]

I'm not making arbitrary baselines for G league prospects, so I am not limiting anything and simply assessing their games by what I see and normal basketball data analysis. You are welcome to include all these players but it will only make Scoot look better. I singled out Green because he is the only one who fares well as a scorer vs Scoot as a Ignite player.

I have no reason to down that 14/9/9 game. It was efficient and there is no previous precedent where I can look at that and be down on it.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631121/

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/mcgowbr01d.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/minotjo01d.html

Could totally be looking in the wrong place but thats what I see.

McGowens and Minnot born in 2002, Scoot 2004. I already explained that I value such a large age gap and being put into an NBA regiment so we will just differ on that.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

You have to click season type and then click showcase+regular season to see the full amount of games they have played.

Again, I am just using Minnot and McGowens as data points. I am not trying to sell them as prospects or better than Scoot. IMO Scoot should be putting up better numbers as a supposed elite prospect than two guys that 80% of NBA fans probably don't even know their name.

RJ Hampton is averaging 22 ppg in 10 games and he was just cut. Scoring in the gleague is easy for borderline nba roster players.

[SeattleJazzFan]

My argument against Scoot isn't that he sucks either. I am merely pointing out he has flaws as a prospect and I am making a case where I think he should possibly go maybe 4th-6th instead of a lock for 2nd.

Yet anyone who utters he isn't the 2nd prospect gets called a hater because every mock draft has him 2nd so therefore that is where he should/will go.

agreed. i think we always need to be wary when a kid gets pegged as the 2nd overall pick when he's 17 (and not putting up great numbers) and then nobody moves him from that slot when he turns 18 and then 19 (and still putting up pedestrian numbers). especially when that guy doesn't have great length and struggles with his shooting. doesn't mean he won't be great some day or that he can't be the #2 overall pick, but it means people should be at the very least questioning it.

it's as if he was placed at #2 a year and a half ago and it's accepted as a draft requirement at this point everything else be damned.

[JMAC3]

My argument against Scoot isn't that he sucks either. I am merely pointing out he has flaws as a prospect and I am making a case where I think he should possibly go maybe 4th-6th instead of a lock for 2nd.

Yet anyone who utters he isn't the 2nd prospect gets called a hater because every mock draft has him 2nd so therefore that is where he should/will go.

agreed. i think we always need to be wary when a kid gets pegged as the 2nd overall pick when he's 17 (and not putting up great numbers) and then nobody moves him from that slot when he turns 18 and then 19 (and still putting up pedestrian numbers). especially when that guy doesn't have great length and struggles with his shooting. doesn't mean he won't be great some day or that he can't be the #2 overall pick, but it means people should be at the very least questioning it.

it's as if he was placed at #2 a year and a half ago and it's accepted as a draft requirement at this point everything else be damned.

Exactly! I am not quite sure why we are getting hung up on the 14 point outing. It is a very small data point. Just like his size. Defense. Shooting.

I personally have him as a worse prospect than Jaden Ivey.

[reanimator]

I'm not making arbitrary baselines for G league prospects, so I am not limiting anything and simply assessing their games by what I see and normal basketball data analysis. You are welcome to include all these players but it will only make Scoot look better. I singled out Green because he is the only one who fares well as a scorer vs Scoot as a Ignite player.

I have no reason to down that 14/9/9 game. It was efficient and there is no previous precedent where I can look at that and be down on it.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631121/

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/mcgowbr01d.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/minotjo01d.html

Could totally be looking in the wrong place but thats what I see.

McGowens and Minnot born in 2002, Scoot 2004. I already explained that I value such a large age gap and being put into an NBA regiment so we will just differ on that.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

You have to click season type and then click showcase+regular season to see the full amount of games they have played.

Again, I am just using Minnot and McGowens as data points. I am not trying to sell them as prospects or better than Scoot. IMO Scoot should be putting up better numbers as a supposed elite prospect than two guys that 80% of NBA fans probably don't even know their name.

RJ Hampton is averaging 22 ppg in 10 games and he was just cut. Scoring in the gleague is easy for borderline nba roster players.

Rj is a 3 year NBA vet and 22 years old. I think you severely underestimate how time/maturation can impact production especially at the lower levels but we all weigh things differently.

I don't think Scoot should be expected to do anything none of the other lotto Ignite guys didn't do beyond grade out at the top which he is at worst #2 with top 2 pick Jalen Gree in the mix.

[JMAC3]

I'm not making arbitrary baselines for G league prospects, so I am not limiting anything and simply assessing their games by what I see and normal basketball data analysis. You are welcome to include all these players but it will only make Scoot look better. I singled out Green because he is the only one who fares well as a scorer vs Scoot as a Ignite player.

I have no reason to down that 14/9/9 game. It was efficient and there is no previous precedent where I can look at that and be down on it.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631121/

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/mcgowbr01d.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/players/m/minotjo01d.html

Could totally be looking in the wrong place but thats what I see.

McGowens and Minnot born in 2002, Scoot 2004. I already explained that I value such a large age gap and being put into an NBA regiment so we will just differ on that.

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

You have to click season type and then click showcase+regular season to see the full amount of games they have played.

Again, I am just using Minnot and McGowens as data points. I am not trying to sell them as prospects or better than Scoot. IMO Scoot should be putting up better numbers as a supposed elite prospect than two guys that 80% of NBA fans probably don't even know their name.

RJ Hampton is averaging 22 ppg in 10 games and he was just cut. Scoring in the gleague is easy for borderline nba roster players.

Rj is a 3 year NBA vet and 22 years old. I think you severely underestimate how time/maturation can impact production especially at the lower levels but we all weigh things differently.

I don't think Scoot should be expected to do anything none of the other lotto Ignite guys didn't do beyond grade out at the top which he is at worst #2 with top 2 pick Jalen Gree in the mix.

Lol, I can't anymore. How many guys are you going to disqualify that I bring up? Again it seems like you are only interested in comparing him to Jalen Green and Jalen Green alone. Who is putting up empty numbers on the worst team in the league. Yes!!! Give me a guy that might be as good as him #2. No Questions asked. None. Lets ignore the guys who averaged 15ppg in the gleague predraft that are now fighting to get 10 mins per game in the NBA.

The Gleague development record right now looks pretty bad to me.

[reanimator]

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1631169/

You have to click season type and then click showcase+regular season to see the full amount of games they have played.

Again, I am just using Minnot and McGowens as data points. I am not trying to sell them as prospects or better than Scoot. IMO Scoot should be putting up better numbers as a supposed elite prospect than two guys that 80% of NBA fans probably don't even know their name.

RJ Hampton is averaging 22 ppg in 10 games and he was just cut. Scoring in the gleague is easy for borderline nba roster players.

Rj is a 3 year NBA vet and 22 years old. I think you severely underestimate how time/maturation can impact production especially at the lower levels but we all weigh things differently.

I don't think Scoot should be expected to do anything none of the other lotto Ignite guys didn't do beyond grade out at the top which he is at worst #2 with top 2 pick Jalen Gree in the mix.

Lol, I can't anymore. How many guys are you going to disqualify that I bring up? Again it seems like you are only interested in comparing him to Jalen Green and Jalen Green alone. Who is putting up empty numbers on the worst team in the league. Yes!!! Give me a guy that might be as good as him #2. No Questions asked. None. Lets ignore the guys who averaged 15ppg in the gleague predraft that are now fighting to get 10 mins per game in the NBA.

The Gleague development record right now looks pretty bad to me.

Once again, you can compare every Ignite player not just Green but I thought I'd help you out with isolating it to the only one who fares well in a comparison. Luckily, Scoot, while not quite the shooter, grades out as a much better playmaker at the same age so not really similar players but more so Green is a good litmus for "can this guy produce in the NBA."

If you don't see the issue comparing guys with 2-4 years age difference especially 1 with multiple NBA seasons under his belt than idk, but like I said not everyone values age/environment when projecting players so I get it and we can just agree to disagree.

[JMAC3]

Rj is a 3 year NBA vet and 22 years old. I think you severely underestimate how time/maturation can impact production especially at the lower levels but we all weigh things differently.

I don't think Scoot should be expected to do anything none of the other lotto Ignite guys didn't do beyond grade out at the top which he is at worst #2 with top 2 pick Jalen Gree in the mix.

Lol, I can't anymore. How many guys are you going to disqualify that I bring up? Again it seems like you are only interested in comparing him to Jalen Green and Jalen Green alone. Who is putting up empty numbers on the worst team in the league. Yes!!! Give me a guy that might be as good as him #2. No Questions asked. None. Lets ignore the guys who averaged 15ppg in the gleague predraft that are now fighting to get 10 mins per game in the NBA.

The Gleague development record right now looks pretty bad to me.

Once again, you can compare every Ignite player not just Green but I thought I'd help you out with isolating it to the only one who fares well in a comparison. Luckily, Scoot, while not quite the shooter, grades out as a much better playmaker at the same age so not really similar players but more so Green is a good litmus for "can this guy produce in the NBA."

If you don't see the issue comparing guys with 2-4 years age difference especially 1 with multiple NBA seasons under his belt than idk, but like I said not everyone values age/environment when projecting players so I get it and we can just agree to disagree.

Josh Minott is 1 year older than Scoot.... that is why I selected him lol.

This would be like someone saying man this prospect can't be in the good in the NBA because he is under 5'9'' then you saying well Isiaih Thomas was good... The sample size is too small to even glean anything from it.

But yes if you want to narrow the range to compare him to 8 guys then go for it. 7 of which have been pretty bad in the NBA. but yes, hang your hat on Jalen Green, who by most accounts has been one of the least effective players in the league by most advanced stats.

[JMAC3]

Michael Foster averaged nearly 16 ppg at age 18/19 in the Gleague. Went undrafted and is still not in the NBA even on 2way deal. Scoring in the Gleague is easy.

Statistically what Scoot is doing in the Gleague is average, not above average IMO.

[reanimator]

Lol, I can't anymore. How many guys are you going to disqualify that I bring up? Again it seems like you are only interested in comparing him to Jalen Green and Jalen Green alone. Who is putting up empty numbers on the worst team in the league. Yes!!! Give me a guy that might be as good as him #2. No Questions asked. None. Lets ignore the guys who averaged 15ppg in the gleague predraft that are now fighting to get 10 mins per game in the NBA.

The Gleague development record right now looks pretty bad to me.

Once again, you can compare every Ignite player not just Green but I thought I'd help you out with isolating it to the only one who fares well in a comparison. Luckily, Scoot, while not quite the shooter, grades out as a much better playmaker at the same age so not really similar players but more so Green is a good litmus for "can this guy produce in the NBA."

If you don't see the issue comparing guys with 2-4 years age difference especially 1 with multiple NBA seasons under his belt than idk, but like I said not everyone values age/environment when projecting players so I get it and we can just agree to disagree.

Josh Minott is 1 year older than Scoot.... that is why I selected him lol.

This would be like someone saying man this prospect can't be in the good in the NBA because he is under 5'9'' then you saying well Isiaih Thomas was good... The sample size is too small to even glean anything from it.

But yes if you want to narrow the range to compare him to 8 guys then go for it. 7 of which have been pretty bad in the NBA. but yes, hang your hat on Jalen Green, who by most accounts has been one of the least effective players in the league by most advanced stats.

Once again, you made the definitive claim about what G league data means not me lol. So yeah, you can't make the claim then complain when its acknowledged the data set isn't large. You are literally making my point for me.

Its a bit over a year but I've already stated that I thought even a year was significant.

I'll ignore the playmaking/creation gap and give you Foster even. You've cited a big forward who doesn't create much to make the claim that scoring is easy for Ignite draft prospects.

And I think there may be some comprehension issues going on. I'm not lauding Jalen Green merely using him as a meaningful baseline which makes more sense than a 22 year old NBA vet but by all means we can agree to disagree.

[JMAC3]

You are literally making my point for me.

You keep tossing this phrase in. Honestly I am not sure what you point is. Other than you think age matters, ignore production, ignore guys that aren't exact same position, exact same age...

And I think there may be some comprehension issues going on. I'm not lauding Jalen Green merely using him as a meaningful baseline which makes more sense than a 22 year old NBA vet but by all means we can agree to disagree.

Yeah, but he is the only baseline you are willing to acknowledge. You want to ignore every other player for one thing or another that you decide on the spot. You are clinging to this one comparison. Limiting the data set over and over.

It would be no different than if a prospect played at Weber State and I was comparing him to Dame. Then made you only use guys that were 22 years old and guys that also went to Weber State to prove my point. Anyone else I would dispute because they didn't fit my exact sample I want you to use.

If Scoot gets to the league and looks like Kuminga, Daniels or Hardy it is probably an awful pick at #2. Even if he does meet the Jalen Green threshold, still probably could of made a better pick.

[JMAC3]

I am giving Scoot the benefit of the doubt that he will in fact be one of the better players to come through Ignite program. The problem I see is he has to be the best player to do so in order to be worth the #2 pick.

Based on size, production, defensive potential, shooting, feel for the game I think I have him in the same tier as Thompson Twins, Whitmore and Miller.

If 3 years from now if Scoot is the 8th best player from this draft I won't be absolutely shocked. It is pretty easy to see that outcome. You can say this about anyone, but that is also why I do not die on the hill that any one prospect is a lock for 2nd pick.

[reanimator]

You are literally making my point for me.

You keep tossing this phrase in. Honestly I am not sure what you point is. Other than you think age matters, ignore production, ignore guys that aren't exact same position, exact same age...

And I think there may be some comprehension issues going on. I'm not lauding Jalen Green merely using him as a meaningful baseline which makes more sense than a 22 year old NBA vet but by all means we can agree to disagree.

Yeah, but he is the only baseline you are willing to acknowledge. You want to ignore every other player for one thing or another that you decide on the spot. You are clinging to this one comparison. Limiting the data set over and over.

It would be no different than if a prospect played at Weber State and I was comparing him to Dame. Then made you only use guys that were 22 years old and guys that also went to Weber State to prove my point. Anyone else I would dispute because they didn't fit my exact sample I want you to use.

If Scoot gets to the league and looks like Kuminga, Daniels or Hardy it is probably an awful pick at #2. Even if he does meet the Jalen Green threshold, still probably could of made a better pick.

Your very first example was Hardy....

Its not that we can't compare those guys which is what we've been doing for a page now. You simply think me mentioning basic differences in age, experience, positions/role is an unwillingness to compare.

The G league is not college where there is at least some uniformity in their development tracts. The G league has players whose basketball backgrounds are all over the place so no I don't think the analogy provided quite works in this instance. It is simply not a shock to me when NBA vets, guys multiple years older, etc are more inclined to produce in a G league setting than a Ignite prospect. I mean you mentioned Jaden Hardy and I think he is a good example of what a year can do in such a setting.

And yeah, I don't think the Ignite has fielded a great NBA player yet though I believe Daniels has a high floor and guys like Green/Kuminga/Hardy can still find their way. My point was not that Scoot is only as good as those guys but that he is at minimum not underperforming when compared to them.

I don't share the same concerns with his athleticism or his ability to put pressure on the rim but I do think there is the risk he will fall in love midrange jumpers and never have a league average 3ball which will nerf a lot of his playmaking. I don't think he is a lock for #2 in a redraft either but I don't think him not scoring 30 a bunch of times or having an efficient low turnover 14/9/9 game is the best argument for why he may underachieve.