Ben Simmons

[No-Man]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?

it is not his jumper, is what it means in terms of his playing style.
if he is that good, it wont matter because the net will be positive, but you never know, if he isnt and he forces the game to go his way or the highway, and it really seems to be that type of player that you need to build around to be succesfull, jeeze, that is tricky.
his ceiling is superduper high if the jumper gets going and he learns how to diversify offensively, play more off the ball, cut and all that like he did as a Jr., plus adding defensively, but his floor is dangerous.

depends on the team I have, but for most teams, Ingram is just easier, while comparable in terms of ceiling/floor +younger.
and it has nothing to do with today's basketball, both are modern basketball players, it is more about profiling, which can be unfair, to Ben.

[Dcebucks11]

I think Simmons is gonna be amazing but his jumper is ugly, lets be honest.. Shooting on the way down, legs hanging in the air.. That's awful form... Luckily for him, he doesn't need a good jumper.. He's got amazing speed and size and ball handling / passing

If you "like" his form or if its "pretty" or "ugly" doesnt say anything about his potential ability to become an average shooter wich would be more then enough for him.
His shot is not broken it needs finetuning by a NBA shooting Coach.

If a guy like Shawn Marion be a 33% shooter from three for his career Ben can do that too.
There are so many different "shooting forms" and very few have what you would call "perfekt form".. MOST Players get by with not optimal forms with practise and finetuning.

Why are so many people so adamant about a guy who has shown he can hit around or over 30% of his threes(in his HS Career and the LSU games in Australia) will NEVER develop ANY Jumper?

19yo Kids develop you know? they improve.. Why do you think almost everyone does have better shooting stats they age? Because with practice,NBA Shooting Coaches and experience your jumpshot is bound to get better.

Even a guy like Rondo is hitting 33% of his threes now.
A guy like Leonard who came into the League with almost NO Jumpshot who suddenly is one of the best Shooters
A guy like Ason Kidd who started developing a jumper and turned into Jason Kidd only once he turned 30..

Its not like players always stay what they are as College Freshman.. quite the opposite..

Dude, I never said he can't improve his jumper but lets not act like it's a given that he'll be a respected shooter..

Kidd / Leonard had good lower body form and aim, just needed minor tweaks.. Kawhi I know all he did was change his release point..
Rondo is still a crap shooter that teams ignore so Idk why he's on this list..

Point is, he has multiple issues with his jump shot, it needs an overhaul.. Is that a bad thing to say for a guy who has rarely taken a jumper this year?

Is Justice Winslow a good jump shooter cuz he hit 42% of his 3s in college?

[Duke4life831]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?

If the drat is today I'm still taking Simmons #1. But his jumper, lack of true low post moves and I don't ever see him being a presence defensively are the reasons Im not sold on him being the next great player and best prospect since Lebron. When all is said and done I think he's going to be a very similar career as Odom, maybe a little better and make a few all stars. Right now he's scoring off of being bigger and more athletic than everyone. I know Blake was able to score that way but Simmons is not the same explosive athlete Blake is.

So I think he's going to be a really good starter, just not sold on the superstar part

[Duke4life831]

I think Simmons is gonna be amazing but his jumper is ugly, lets be honest.. Shooting on the way down, legs hanging in the air.. That's awful form... Luckily for him, he doesn't need a good jumper.. He's got amazing speed and size and ball handling / passing

If you "like" his form or if its "pretty" or "ugly" doesnt say anything about his potential ability to become an average shooter wich would be more then enough for him.
His shot is not broken it needs finetuning by a NBA shooting Coach.

If a guy like Shawn Marion be a 33% shooter from three for his career Ben can do that too.
There are so many different "shooting forms" and very few have what you would call "perfekt form".. MOST Players get by with not optimal forms with practise and finetuning.

Why are so many people so adamant about a guy who has shown he can hit around or over 30% of his threes(in his HS Career and the LSU games in Australia) will NEVER develop ANY Jumper?

19yo Kids develop you know? they improve.. Why do you think almost everyone does have better shooting stats they age? Because with practice,NBA Shooting Coaches and experience your jumpshot is bound to get better.

Even a guy like Rondo is hitting 33% of his threes now.
A guy like Leonard who came into the League with almost NO Jumpshot who suddenly is one of the best Shooters
A guy like Ason Kidd who started developing a jumper and turned into Jason Kidd only once he turned 30..

Its not like players always stay what they are as College Freshman.. quite the opposite..

Dude, I never said he can't improve his jumper but lets not act like it's a given that he'll be a respected shooter..

Kidd / Leonard had good lower body form and aim, just needed minor tweaks.. Kawhi I know all he did was change his release point..
Rondo is still a crap shooter that teams ignore so Idk why he's on this list..

Point is, he has multiple issues with his jump shot, it needs an overhaul.. Is that a bad thing to say for a guy who has rarely taken a jumper this year?

Is Justice Winslow a good jump shooter cuz he hit 42% of his 3s in college?

Exactly! I think to many people are to quick to just say and assume "oh its shooting he will improve." There are plenty of examples of guys who people are still waiting to get a reliable jumper, like you said Rondo and there is also Rubio and Wall. That's just off the top of my head. And Ya Justise had a reliable jumper in college but his form is bad and then you get the massive jump up in level of defense played and you now see how much work his jumper needs. Simmons has a long long ways to go to ever have a reliable jumper

[Marcus]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?

just not sold on the superstar part

are you sold on any players in this class as "superstars"?

[Duke4life831]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?

just not sold on the superstar part

are you sold on any players in this class as "superstars"?

No. Simmons and Ingram are the only ones I see that have the potential to get there. Simmons is closer and because of that has a higher floor. I think Ingram the highest ceiling but as of right now he has the much lower floor

[Brapman]

Guys as big as Simmons have a lot of moving parts - a lot of mechanics to smooth out. Big men who aren't already great shooters at this stage of their career - who aren't already even average shooters at this stage of their development ....

I wouldn't be betting money on him becoming a plus shooter.

Does that mean he isn't the top player in this draft class? Of course not. I don't see anyone else who is in the mix. But, would anyone take him over Towns or Porzingis? You'd be crazy to say, "yes."

I don't see Magic Johnson in this kid. I suppose that's the hope, though.

[Cammo101]

Guys as big as Simmons have a lot of moving parts - a lot of mechanics to smooth out. Big men who aren't already great shooters at this stage of their career - who aren't already even average shooters at this stage of their development ....

I wouldn't be betting money on him becoming a plus shooter.

Does that mean he isn't the top player in this draft class? Of course not. I don't see anyone else who is in the mix. But, would anyone take him over Towns or Porzingis? You'd be crazy to say, "yes."

I don't see Magic Johnson in this kid. I suppose that's the hope, though.

I don't think we should expect him to become a dead-eye shooter, but he should be able to improve enough to keep guys honest. I don't see Magic Johnson either, but I do see a smarter Lamar Odom, and that's a pretty darn good player IMO.

[The Skyhook]

just not sold on the superstar part

are you sold on any players in this class as "superstars"?

No. Simmons and Ingram are the only ones I see that have the potential to get there. Simmons is closer and because of that has a higher floor. I think Ingram the highest ceiling but as of right now he has the much lower floor

How about Kris Dunn. What is your opinion of him. I think he has the potential to become a superstar player in this league as well. People tend to rate 2nd and 3rd year players differently because we are so used to 1 and dones.

[No-Man]

He is more aggressive that Odom, and quicker, better handle, but not smarter, Odom would've taken him to school in terms of playing inside-out and defense, Odom was more versatile and a better shooter.
A more aggressive Odom, both as a scorer and as rebounder, more focused if you want, but worse defensively and shooting, is what I expect.
That is likely a very good player

[Duke4life831]

are you sold on any players in this class as "superstars"?

No. Simmons and Ingram are the only ones I see that have the potential to get there. Simmons is closer and because of that has a higher floor. I think Ingram the highest ceiling but as of right now he has the much lower floor

How about Kris Dunn. What is your opinion of him. I think he has the potential to become a superstar player in this league as well. People tend to rate 2nd and 3rd year players differently because we are so used to 1 and dones.

I was not high on Dunn coming into the year because of his shooting. He's improved it enough where I feel more comfortable about him. I don't see superstar in him though. At best I think he will be one of those guards 10 years on his career you go "wait he hasn't made an all star? " I think he's going to be that borderline all star like a Lawson, Conley, Monta. Not saying he plays like them, just that level of impact where you get surprised they haven't squeezed into 1 all star game. A lot of people say Wade, I don't see it, Wade was a more explosive athlete. I just think who ever gets him is going to get a really solid two way guard. I just don't think he has that next level in him, very safe and smart pick though after 2 in this draft

[The Skyhook]

No. Simmons and Ingram are the only ones I see that have the potential to get there. Simmons is closer and because of that has a higher floor. I think Ingram the highest ceiling but as of right now he has the much lower floor

How about Kris Dunn. What is your opinion of him. I think he has the potential to become a superstar player in this league as well. People tend to rate 2nd and 3rd year players differently because we are so used to 1 and dones.

I was not high on Dunn coming into the year because of his shooting. He's improved it enough where I feel more comfortable about him. I don't see superstar in him though. At best I think he will be one of those guards 10 years on his career you go "wait he hasn't made an all star? " I think he's going to be that borderline all star like a Lawson, Conley, Monta. Not saying he plays like them, just that level of impact where you get surprised they haven't squeezed into 1 all star game. A lot of people say Wade, I don't see it, Wade was a more explosive athlete. I just think who ever gets him is going to get a really solid two way guard. I just don't think he has that next level in him, very safe and smart pick though after 2 in this draft

I admit I haven't seen him enough throughout this season to compare him to Wade but when I have watched him I've seen a few moves that were very Wade-esq which could be why the comparisons were drawn. I'm going to try to catch him play as often as a I watch Simmons and Ingram to get a better read on him now that conference play has started.

[Duke4life831]

How about Kris Dunn. What is your opinion of him. I think he has the potential to become a superstar player in this league as well. People tend to rate 2nd and 3rd year players differently because we are so used to 1 and dones.

I was not high on Dunn coming into the year because of his shooting. He's improved it enough where I feel more comfortable about him. I don't see superstar in him though. At best I think he will be one of those guards 10 years on his career you go "wait he hasn't made an all star? " I think he's going to be that borderline all star like a Lawson, Conley, Monta. Not saying he plays like them, just that level of impact where you get surprised they haven't squeezed into 1 all star game. A lot of people say Wade, I don't see it, Wade was a more explosive athlete. I just think who ever gets him is going to get a really solid two way guard. I just don't think he has that next level in him, very safe and smart pick though after 2 in this draft

I admit I haven't seen him enough throughout this season to compare him to Wade but when I have watched him I've seen a few moves that were very Wade-esq which could be why the comparisons were drawn. I'm going to try to catch him play as often as a I watch Simmons and Ingram to get a better read on him now that conference play has started.

He does have some Wade in him at the college level. But he is just a little smaller and less explosive than Wade so I don't know if it will translate all that well to the NBA. We gotta remember Wade is a rarity of a 2 guard being highly successful with no 3 point shot. We do have to take into consideration that Dunn is a senior and is 21 and will be 22 by the time March madness begins. So he is a lot more physically mature compared to a lot of guys he's playing against. Again I've come away very impressed with him, at the beginning of the season I thought he would be a solid starter maybe bench rotation guy. Now it seems he's definitely going to be a really good starter. Again I just don't see that thing that really puts him over, if we valued defense a little more in our guards than he may slip into an all star game.

I just feel Simmons and Ingram are the only guys that have it factor. That thing where you watch them and you go, ya if that dude keeps going he can be really good against anyone. Now the 2017 draft is a different story. There are multiple guys like that

[Illmatic12]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?

For me, my only 'knock' (and not really a knock so much as a playing style difference) is that he doesn't seem like he'll be a dominant offensive player in the half court. I know people have made the Blake Griffin comparison as far as Simmons not having a jumper, but Griffin was a dominant offensive force in the half court from day 1. You could run offense through him, if you have a player like Griffin you don't need to go out and find another #1 option.

I don't project Simmons as an NBA someone that you can run volume offense through, he's never been that guy. Yeah, he can punish mismatches and all that - but I think Simmons will generally need to play with other players who are better at shooting + creating their own offense. I also see a good defender, but not someone with incredible length or ability on that end.

Ingram being a year younger and showing signs of those dominant scoring instincts is really, really tempting. He's such a fluid and natural scorer already - once he physically settles in at the next level, he's going to do whatever he wants. I think he could be a great perimeter defender as well.

[scrabbarista]

But, would anyone take him over Towns or Porzingis? You'd be crazy to say, "yes."

I don't see Magic Johnson in this kid. I suppose that's the hope, though.

Crazy is an overstatement. A huge overstatement. Unless most of the scouts working for the NBA are crazy.

[splendidham]

was it this one?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2600060-nba-scouts-are-split-on-ben-simmons-only-imperfection

That would be the one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ItsThatEasy]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?

For me, my only 'knock' (and not really a knock so much as a playing style difference) is that he doesn't seem like he'll be a dominant offensive player in the half court. I know people have made the Blake Griffin comparison as far as Simmons not having a jumper, but Griffin was a dominant offensive force in the half court from day 1. You could run offense through him, if you have a player like Griffin you don't need to go out and find another #1 option.

I don't project Simmons as an NBA someone that you can run volume offense through, he's never been that guy. Yeah, he can punish mismatches and all that - but I think Simmons will generally need to play with other players who are better at shooting + creating their own offense. I also see a good defender, but not someone with incredible length or ability on that end.

Ingram being a year younger and showing signs of those dominant scoring instincts is really, really tempting. He's such a fluid and natural scorer already - once he physically settles in at the next level, he's going to do whatever he wants. I think he could be a great perimeter defender as well.

And yet all you see on this board and in every other basketball circle now a days is how successful teams shouldn't actually have "#1 options" anymore. Ball movement and hockey assists are supposed to be all an offense needs to truly be efficient. Not saying I agree with this thought process but it's currently running rampant right now.

[nurseryc]

Question for the board:

How many posters are looking at Ben's jumper as the sole reason why they wouldn't draft him number one in this class?

For me, my only 'knock' (and not really a knock so much as a playing style difference) is that he doesn't seem like he'll be a dominant offensive player in the half court. I know people have made the Blake Griffin comparison as far as Simmons not having a jumper, but Griffin was a dominant offensive force in the half court from day 1. You could run offense through him, if you have a player like Griffin you don't need to go out and find another #1 option.

I don't project Simmons as an NBA someone that you can run volume offense through, he's never been that guy. Yeah, he can punish mismatches and all that - but I think Simmons will generally need to play with other players who are better at shooting + creating their own offense. I also see a good defender, but not someone with incredible length or ability on that end.

Ingram being a year younger and showing signs of those dominant scoring instincts is really, really tempting. He's such a fluid and natural scorer already - once he physically settles in at the next level, he's going to do whatever he wants. I think he could be a great perimeter defender as well.

And yet all you see on this board and in every other basketball circle now a days is how successful teams shouldn't actually have "#1 options" anymore. Ball movement and hockey assists are supposed to be all an offense needs to truly be efficient. Not saying I agree with this thought process but it's currently running rampant right now.

After watching the below clip I was very impressed with Ben's mechanics on his outside shot. From what i can see Ben just needs to start taking some jumpers each LSU game and trusting himself. He is looking to create at LSU instead of backing his jumper, which he actually has decent form on. Check it out.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOrH2i2tzsI[/youtube]

[scrabbarista]

Good find. Unsurprisingly, it's exactly what scouts have been saying: it's not perfection, but it's not broke(n).

Watching him this season, I sometimes wonder if he's doing what Bird used to do and giving himself an artificial challenge to make the game more interesting for himself (i.e., no jumpers). I know he's probably not messing with his team's fortunes like that, but it's just a thought.

It seems like a lot of people are equating no/low attempts with no/low ability. Just silliness.

[crazy_me_87]

Good find. Unsurprisingly, it's exactly what scouts have been saying: it's not perfection, but it's not broke(n).

Watching him this season, I sometimes wonder if he's doing what Bird used to do and giving himself an artificial challenge to make the game more interesting for himself (i.e., no jumpers). I know he's probably not messing with his team's fortunes like that, but it's just a thought.

It seems like a lot of people are equating no/low attempts with no/low ability. Just silliness.

Ben said he wont take jumpers until HE feels he can hit them at a rate that satisfies him.
So it could very well be that he wont take more then 10 threes his rookie year.. 20 his sophmore.. and then suddenly shoots a respectable 32-35% his 3rd year on over 2 or 3 threes a game.

Its so unique to say "i will not shoot jumpers till i feel i am GOOD at shooting jumpers" .. we are not used to a 19yo Kid with THAT much amount of BBIQ and perfectionism.