Luka Doncic

[WalterBenjamin]

What skills does Porter have besides shooting that are fairly developed?

Shooting is a generic term so lets break it down
The ability to isolate and knock down pull ups or finish at the cup. The ability to play off ball as a shooter and filling in the lanes in transition.
Doncic's passing ability/spatial awareness isn't somehow more of a skill than Porter's.

Ok I understand that Porter will finish NBA possesions with quality but i think that aspect of the game is a bit overrated. If he can't create much he doesn't have as high as an upside as Doncic. Skills are skills but some have more value.

[reanimator]

What skills does Porter have besides shooting that are fairly developed?

Shooting is a generic term so lets break it down
The ability to isolate and knock down pull ups or finish at the cup. The ability to play off ball as a shooter and filling in the lanes in transition.
Doncic's passing ability/spatial awareness isn't somehow more of a skill than Porter's.

Ok I understand that Porter will finish NBA possesions with quality but i think that aspect of the game is a bit overrated. If he can't create much he doesn't have as high as an upside as Doncic. Skills are skills but some have more value.

Porter should have no issue creating his own shot and is further along in that aspect than Doncic.

[reanimator]

I didn't compare him to Fultz or Tatum in the first place so whatever you say. I was talking about Porters skill set, if you give Doncic elite athleticisim then I would call him borderline generational talent, at least for European standards. So you don't care what Doncic did against lower level competition and you claim Porter is more skilled than Doncic based on his performances against high schoolers? It's clear that you use this argument only when it suits your claims, when someone argues that Doncic is better than any other American prospect you don't hesitate to come up with stupid claims like you did earlier. Do I think Doncic is more skilled than Porter? yes I do and I think he proved it, but I also think Porter will turn out to be a more complete player and has a higher ceiling if he lives up to his potential.

I never said who is or isn't more skilled between Doncic and Porter...merely that Doncic isn't MORE skilled. I could have them in the same tier for all you know.

And I think the competition level thing goes both ways. No one is convincing me those European leagues field players with the length, verticality and speed that exist Stateside.

[soulzen]

I didn't compare him to Fultz or Tatum in the first place so whatever you say. I was talking about Porters skill set, if you give Doncic elite athleticisim then I would call him borderline generational talent, at least for European standards. So you don't care what Doncic did against lower level competition and you claim Porter is more skilled than Doncic based on his performances against high schoolers? It's clear that you use this argument only when it suits your claims, when someone argues that Doncic is better than any other American prospect you don't hesitate to come up with stupid claims like you did earlier. Do I think Doncic is more skilled than Porter? yes I do and I think he proved it, but I also think Porter will turn out to be a more complete player and has a higher ceiling if he lives up to his potential.

I never said who is or isn't more skilled between Doncic and Porter...merely that Doncic isn't MORE skilled. I could have them in the same tier for all you know.

And I think the competition level thing goes both ways. No one is convincing me those European leagues field players with the length, verticality and speed that exist Stateside.

Fair enough, I don't even feel comfortable comparing these two to begin with.

[Mirotic12]

I just said that Zisis is nearer to Calathes than to Doncic. And stats say I'm right.

Doncic 38% 3pt, 53% 2-pt.

Calathes 28%, 51%.

And leave this middle range shooting out of it, because we all know how basketball is being played last years.

Now I am doubting how much you actually follow European basketball. Saying Zisis is similar to Calathes shooting wise, is the NBA equivalent of saying that Rip Hamilton is similar to Ricky Rubio shooting wise..........

And stats mean almost nothing without proper context. Almost every single jump shot Calathes takes is with no defender within 10-15 feet of him, because every team just dares him to shoot, knowing he can't.

These two players (Zisis and Calathes) are light years apart, in terms of shooting ability.

And Giannis is an outlier with freakish NBA tool who is just now starting to fulfill some of his potential. He was more potential than production his first year in the NBA and was thrown in the fire not because he was warranted the minutes but to develop.

The point is that NBA starters have struggled at FIBA Euro youth tournaments, and you just seem to dismiss them out of hand as being simply inferior to EYBL ball...

Let's look at another Antetokounmpo, Kostas Antetokounmpo - he was tearing up US high school basketball circuits, then went to play in the under-20 FIBA European tournament, and he was easily, by far, the worst player on Greece's youth national team at that tournament.

So it's not true that EYBL high school basketball is superior to the top FIBA European youth tournaments. NCAA DI basketball is, but not USA high school basketball.

[Bob8]

I just said that Zisis is nearer to Calathes than to Doncic. And stats say I'm right.

Doncic 38% 3pt, 53% 2-pt.

Calathes 28%, 51%.

And leave this middle range shooting out of it, because we all know how basketball is being played last years.

Now I am doubting how much you actually follow European basketball. Saying Zisis is similar to Calathes shooting wise, is the NBA equivalent of saying that Rip Hamilton is similar to Ricky Rubio shooting wise..........

And stats mean almost nothing without proper context. Almost every single jump shot Calathes takes is with no defender within 10-15 feet of him, because every team just dares him to shoot, knowing he can't.

These two players (Zisis and Calathes) are light years apart, in terms of shooting ability.

I agree Calathes is worse shooter than Zisis. It's really difficult to be worse than him. But 30%, 47% and 78%, tells us that Zisis is at most pretty average shooter too.

I have watched Euroleague enough to win back2back Euroleague fantasy today. I hope I will see great F4 in Istanbul.

[reanimator]

The point is that NBA starters have struggled at FIBA Euro youth tournaments, and you just seem to dismiss them out of hand as being simply inferior to EYBL ball...

Let's look at another Antetokounmpo, Kostas Antetokounmpo - he was tearing up US high school basketball circuits, then went to play in the under-20 FIBA European tournament, and he was easily, by far, the worst player on Greece's youth national team at that tournament.

So it's not true that EYBL high school basketball is superior to the top FIBA European youth tournaments. NCAA DI basketball is, but not USA high school basketball.

Kostas didnt tear up the HS basketball circuit. He didn't produce much and was incredibly raw...reason Archie Miller redshirted him at Dayton.

You're the one dismissing the years of development between Giannis as a raw teenager and Giannis as a starter. Also dismissing that his trajectory is an extreme outlier.

[Mirotic12]

Kostas didnt tear up the HS basketball circuit. He didn't produce much and was incredibly raw...reason Archie Miller redshirted him at Dayton.

You're the one dismissing the years of development between Giannis as a raw teenager and Giannis as a starter. Also dismissing that his trajectory is an extreme outlier.

Giannis was a starter in NBA a few months after struggling in one of those FIBA youth tournaments. Kostas was considered one of the better players in USA in high school (he was ranked #88 I believe), and he was basically a scrub in the FIBA Euro youth tournament some months after that.

Sorry, but US high school basketball isn't better than the highest European-wide youth tournaments. If you are talking regional youth club competitions, or maybe even EuroLeague junior tournament, then maybe we have a discussion. No way is USA high school basketball better than the best FIBA Euro youth tournaments though.

I mean in the under 20 tournament, you have all kinds of NCAA players.

One last point, it was widely reported Kostas Antetokounmpo wasn't eligible due to grades and test scores. That's why he was red shirted. Not because the coach decided he was eligible, but wasn't going to play. So that's quite two totally different things.

[reanimator]

Giannis was a starter in NBA a few months after struggling in one of those FIBA youth tournaments. Kostas was considered one of the better players in USA in high school (he was ranked #88 I believe), and he was basically a scrub in the FIBA Euro youth tournament some months after that.

Kostas was ranked for his physical tools
Giannis only started 23 games in year one and that was only for development purposes, not production
Agree to disagree

I've seen guys like Markannen, Svi, etc dominate those tournaments then come over here and can't replicate that production.

[Mirotic12]

Kostas didnt tear up the HS basketball circuit. He didn't produce much and was incredibly raw...reason Archie Miller redshirted him at Dayton.

You're the one dismissing the years of development between Giannis as a raw teenager and Giannis as a starter. Also dismissing that his trajectory is an extreme outlier.

Giannis was a starter in NBA a few months after struggling in one of those FIBA youth tournaments. Kostas was considered one of the better players in USA in high school (he was ranked #88 I believe, or something like that), and he was basically a scrub in the FIBA Euro youth tournament some months after that.

Sorry, but US high school basketball isn't better than the highest European-wide youth tournaments. If you are talking regional youth club competitions, or maybe even EuroLeague junior tournament, then maybe we have a discussion. No way is USA high school basketball better than the best FIBA Euro youth tournaments though.

I mean in the under 20 tournament, you have all kinds of NCAA players.

One last point, it was widely reported Kostas Antetokounmpo wasn't eligible due to grades and test scores. That's why he was red shirted. Not because the coach decided he was eligible, but wasn't going to play. So that's quite two totally different things.

I have watched Euroleague enough to win back2back Euroleague fantasy today. I hope I will see great F4 in Istanbul.

Well, we have the 4 best teams in Europe for sure, that all did make it to the Final Four. So that's good. But since Fenerbahce is playing at home, it might ruin it. It pretty much ruined it 2 years ago when Real was playing at home. No one could compete with them on their home floor, and the same thing might happen again this time with Fener.

Kostas was ranked for his physical tools
Giannis only started 23 games in year one and that was only for development purposes, not production
Agree to disagree

I've seen guys like Markannen, Svi, etc dominate those tournaments then come over here and can't replicate that production.

Yeah, maybe in college, not in high school. You are claiming high school basketball is better. EYBL is high school, not college, so you can't compare how players perform in college, then say well yeah, that proves US high school is better.

[Mirotic12]

double post

[jinxed]

@mirotic12

Zisis is incredible bad shooter, very close to Calathes. And he's not good rebounder either. I don't see many similarities except movement.

Jaric is maybe more similar, but he's worse shooter than Doncic. I have the feeling that shooting ability will help Doncic a lot to overcome some athletic minuses.

Zisis is many, many times a better shooter than Calathes. Zisis is the best mid range shooter in Europe, and it's not even close either. He's an inconsistent and streaky 3 point shooter, but he definitely has deep range, and if you leave him open, he will make you pay most of the time.......he's miles and miles better than Calathes as a shooter. I can't believe you have ever seen Zisis play to compare those two in terms of shooting.

Jaric wasn't a bad shooter either. 3 point shooting wasn't his strength, but he had 3 point range, and he was a decent shooter. Either way, this is the player type Doncic is, same as another guy like Planinic, etc. I'm not saying he's the exact same player as these guys, but it's very obvious that he's that same player type as them.

He's definitely not a Bodiroga player type.

.

What are the main differences between him and Bodiroga?

When you say he is a Jaric type player, do you only expect him to be that good in the NBA?

[UcanUwill]

I just said that Zisis is nearer to Calathes than to Doncic. And stats say I'm right.

Doncic 38% 3pt, 53% 2-pt.

Calathes 28%, 51%.

And leave this middle range shooting out of it, because we all know how basketball is being played last years.

Now I am doubting how much you actually follow European basketball. Saying Zisis is similar to Calathes shooting wise, is the NBA equivalent of saying that Rip Hamilton is similar to Ricky Rubio shooting wise..........

And stats mean almost nothing without proper context. Almost every single jump shot Calathes takes is with no defender within 10-15 feet of him, because every team just dares him to shoot, knowing he can't.

These two players (Zisis and Calathes) are light years apart, in terms of shooting ability.

I agree Calathes is worse shooter than Zisis. It's really difficult to be worse than him. But 30%, 47% and 78%, tells us that Zisis is at most pretty average shooter too.

I have watched Euroleague enough to win back2back Euroleague fantasy today. I hope I will see great F4 in Istanbul.

congrats man, major props. have no idea how you did it, amazing acomplishment. maybe you will give me some fantasy pointers next year.

Sent from my SM-A510F using RealGM mobile app

[Bob8]

Now I am doubting how much you actually follow European basketball. Saying Zisis is similar to Calathes shooting wise, is the NBA equivalent of saying that Rip Hamilton is similar to Ricky Rubio shooting wise..........

And stats mean almost nothing without proper context. Almost every single jump shot Calathes takes is with no defender within 10-15 feet of him, because every team just dares him to shoot, knowing he can't.

These two players (Zisis and Calathes) are light years apart, in terms of shooting ability.

I agree Calathes is worse shooter than Zisis. It's really difficult to be worse than him. But 30%, 47% and 78%, tells us that Zisis is at most pretty average shooter too.

I have watched Euroleague enough to win back2back Euroleague fantasy today. I hope I will see great F4 in Istanbul.

congrats man, major props. have no idea how you did it, amazing acomplishment. maybe you will give me some fantasy pointers next year.

Sent from my SM-A510F using RealGM mobile app

Thanks.

[nolang1]

Yeah, maybe in college, not in high school. You are claiming high school basketball is better. EYBL is high school, not college, so you can't compare how players perform in college, then say well yeah, that proves US high school is better.

There are plenty of other examples. Jaylen Hoard is currently averaging less than 10 points per game (3rd on his team) on 40% shooting in the EYBL after finishing 2nd in scoring at FIBA U17.

[UcanUwill]

I think U19 competitions are very comparable to division 1 college. U16 and U17 not so much

[SportsGuy8]

Watching this year's playoffs, I've been trying to imagine how Doncic would do in certain situations, and I'm getting more and more confident that he's going to be absolutely deadly in p'n'r situations in today's NBA. Just the way the game is played, it's not hard to imagine him putting on a true p'n'r clinic.

Critics keep pointing out he's going to be having problems with beating defenders 1on1, but they fail to realize that even if that's true (I don't think it is), p'n'r changes things quite a bit, especially when someone is both an elite passer and a very good shooter. Adding 2 more players to the mix (the screener and his defender) makes it a whole new ballgame ... a new ballgame that plays to Doncic's advantage.

[UcanUwill]

How good is he at splitting the defenders? Most Euros cant do it at all, but the ones who can, it really opens new dimension to their game. If you want to be great perimeter player, you must be able to split defenders at will.

[SportsGuy8]

Unfortunately, this is something that's hard to tell with European players, simply because it's extremely difficult to split defenders in FIBA - defenders can easily combat it by simply being physical, so players rarely even try it. But we know defenders cannot do that in the NBA, especially not at the perimeter.

When you try to split 2 defenders, the room is already narrow as it is, when you add physicality from defenders, it quickly closes.

I think that he's going to have an unorthodox (especially for a European player) weapon for splitting defenders: bullying through them like a tank. But it's something we're going to have to wait and see.

[UcanUwill]

Unfortunately, this is something that's hard to tell with European players, simply because it's extremely difficult to split defenders in FIBA - defenders can easily combat it by simply being physical, so players rarely even try it. But we know defenders cannot do that in the NBA, especially not at the perimeter.

When you try to split 2 defenders, the room is already narrow as it is, when you add physicality from defenders, it quickly closes.

I think that he's going to have an unorthodox (especially for a European player) weapon for splitting defenders: bullying through them like a tank. But it's something we're going to have to wait and see.

Spanoulis does it all the time tho. One of the reasons why he is so deadly in Europe. Most Euros just doesn't have the handle, outside of Spain, no country seem to teach this particular skill well.