2024 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#821 » by EvanZ » Sat Dec 23, 2023 2:24 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Harrison Ingram could tease some people this year

I've been feeling like he'd be a late first for a while but almost every time I watch him I feel like he has an underwhelming game :lol:

But yah, 6-7 forward who can shoot and moves the ball well, that's exactly the kind of player that slides and makes people look dumb.


I don't think you got the point of my comment. The reason he's going to "tease" people is that he actually can't shoot. It looks like he's shooting right now because the 3P% is above 40. But it's a small sample and his FT% is still really bad. I'm not buying it. This is a potential Davion Mitchell situation, if UNC somehow goes deep in the tourney. A lot of folks will think Ingram looks like a better prospect than he is.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#822 » by EvanZ » Sat Dec 23, 2023 2:27 pm

BigGargamel wrote:Maybe it's my Colorado bias but I'd take Cody Williams over any other college freshman right now. Just wish he wasn't dealing with some stupid nagging injuries. I think he has the most upside and NBA friendly game. Should wind up as a top five pick.


What makes him better than Mgbako?
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#823 » by FarBeyondDriven » Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:51 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
BigGargamel wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:The Stephon Castle hype is getting a little weird at this point.

7 games played
Less than 20 MPG
7.7 PPG
2.7 APG
1/7 from three

He's a "hey, keep an eye on this guy for March" tier prospect... not a guy who should be projected in the lottery.


Not calling you out, but the thing about this draft. It sucks. Especially the freshman class. Some draft fans don't like when people say drafts suck, because there will still be good players taken, but overall...it sucks.

BUT

You still are going to have 14 guys go in the lottery. Castle is a lottery projection right now, because he is one of the 14 best prospects available.

Holland, Sarr, Collier, Buzelis, Topic, Walter, Castle, Sheppard, Williams, Risacher, Dillingham, Filipowski, Almansa, Proctor, Bradshaw. These are the guys that are available this year. I wouldn't tank for any of them, but it's just one of those drafts. 58 players are still going to be selected, no matter how good or ready they are.

I actually like a lot of guys projected to go a little later, and think they will carve out nice roles for playoff teams. Boswell, McCullar, Missi, Tyler Smith, Karaban, da Silva, Ighodaro, Kalkbrenner are a few guys I wouldn't mind Denver targeting late.


it might have something to do with the fact that the consensus from experts has been wrong especially the last decade or so. Seems like every year whether the consensus is good or bad, the opposite will end up being the reality. And since posters on here seem to just go with the consensus it means this board is usually wrong. Hence my skepticism and push back against the narrative. Hey, maybe 2024 will buck the trend
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#824 » by FarBeyondDriven » Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:53 am

Ndongo with a 22-12 game. He's really coming along. Too bad he's undraftable since he's so old :wink:

Walter with a giant game. He continues to look like a prospect that belongs in that Sharpe tier. Not the insane athlete Sharpe is but more polished and a better defender.
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2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#825 » by EvanZ » Sun Dec 24, 2023 8:59 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:Ndongo with a 22-12 game. He's really coming along. Too bad he's undraftable since he's so old :wink:

Walter with a giant game. He continues to look like a prospect that belongs in that Sharpe tier. Not the insane athlete Sharpe is but more polished and a better defender.

Literally no one said he’s undraftable dude. Now you’re going to play the ultra defensive woe is me card. The dude is old. Nothing is going to change that. Get over it.


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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#826 » by Colbinii » Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:11 am

EvanZ wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:Ndongo with a 22-12 game. He's really coming along. Too bad he's undraftable since he's so old :wink:

Walter with a giant game. He continues to look like a prospect that belongs in that Sharpe tier. Not the insane athlete Sharpe is but more polished and a better defender.

Literally no one said he’s undraftable dude. Now you’re going to play the ultra defensive woe is me card. The dude is old. Nothing is going to change that. Get over it.


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Yup.

Being old typically affects High End Outcome.

The earlier in the draft, typically teams prefer higher end outcomes for prospects.

Pretty simply concept. Older prospects are less valuable than younger prospects--all else equal.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#827 » by Gilles » Mon Dec 25, 2023 2:38 am

What are the thoughts on KJ Simpson, junior from Colorado? Team basically returned full rotation, added Cody Williams, and all of a sudden Simpson is producing very efficiently: per100poss. he went from 29/7.7/6.8/2.7s/4.6to to 38p/8.5/8.6/4.0s/3.1to, shooting splits changed from .457/.276/.817 to .624/.489/.901. KJ also leads team both offensively and defensively in advanced stats.
Colorado's schedule was soft up to this moment, but he looked good against both ranked teams, although athletic FSU shut him down.
Simpson is probably 6'1", maybe even 6'0", but he is a good passer, can get to the rim, change speed, pull up from midrange (haven't seen a floater from him yet) and from beyond the arc, while his spot shooting is also very good so far. Unlikely to be more than neutral defender due to size, but he works on that end, and if his offense holds, he looks like a good backup PG.
He will be 22 before the start of the next season. 2 starters and a key bench contributor are seniors, plus Williams is guaranteed to leave for NBA, so there's no sense to stay and risk regressing to last year stats, maybe even worse.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#828 » by King Ken » Tue Dec 26, 2023 4:32 am

Not in love with this class. Early so I can change but based on what I see.

Right now, no tiers, just raw rankings so far:

1. Reed Sheppard - Combination of Tyler Ulis and Tyler Herro. By far the best player in this draft. Unlike Ulis, his size and athleticism will translate to the NBA. His scoring and shooting definitely will.

2. Ja'Kobe Walter - Ray Allen like scorer but he can actually defend. He's definitely either #1 or #2 in this class.

3. Cody Williams - He's like a 35-pound lighter De'Andre Hunter on defense but offensively, he gives you a lot of Paul George upside. He's probably two years away from being where he will be physically and ability-wise but his upside makes him #3 overall for me.

4. Nikola Topic - I really see him as Ricky Rubio who can shoot within the mid-range and close to the basket. Maybe can't shoot 3s but he can shoot middys. I see a legit starting PG.

5. Ron Holland - After 4, it becomes role player and situational players draft for me. Ron is a taller Latrell Speewell without the polish. Some will compare him to Tari Eason. He doesn't play winning ball at all but he is extremely productive. I think he's too productive to fall out of the lottery but Eason and recently, Cam Whitmore has so teams are really avoiding the prototype of wings who can't play within a scheme with a passion seeing as those players have been either busts or overpaid, and became busts at insane rates.

6. Alex Sarr - Scouts love him for his what if. He can defend all 5 positions. He can shoot a bit. He moves effortlessly. He can create his own basket to a degree. He basically looks like a potential better JJJ with self-offensive creation skills but he isn't good at basketball. He's not good on defense. He's way too light. Doesn't really have a position. He's probably a 4 long-term. He's the player that could just be massively better in 3 years but he could also be the same and just rotten on a bench somewhere. He's not productive at all. JJJ was at this stage. I said avoid Wiseman and I was right. I would avoid Sarr but I do like Sarr chances a lot more than Wiseman. He's extremely talented but I been bit by the extremely talented, non-productive bug before in Cam Reddish. Buyer beware. That said, Sarr doesn't have anywhere near the flaws Cam had. He's just not any good right now.

7. Zaccharie Risacher - Big fan of Risacher as a 3/D wing with NBA athleticism and size. He can be a 2 or 3. He doesn't really have star upside but he could be a 18ppg scorer in an off-ball role. He's probably the one kid that really fits what we are lacking.

8. Kyle Filipowski - He's gotten 10-15 pounds bigger. He's a 5. He's can score with ease although struggles to get an easy basket. Man, this kid can pass his ass off. Sengun like as a passer but better. Superior defender to Sabonis and Sengun. Great basketball mind. Needs a rim protector next to him at the next level but not a liability at all. Best passing center since Jokic. I would be shocked if he fell out of the top 10. Athleticism might be his biggest issue but I like his game enough to where in time, I can see him being a key contributor.

9. Donovan Clingan - What I like about D. Clingan is he's just athletic enough to do what he does in college in the NBA. You are talking about a better-than-Vuc-level offensive player. Shooting will take time but he can play the PnR. Just impossible to guard in the paint, will remind you of Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. He can protect the paint too. Not really the best rim protector though. I love this kid but stamina is an issue. Probably a 26 mpg max player. For a star player, that might not be enough which is why I can see him sliding to the late lottery but he's a sure thing to me. He's one of the best at scoring an easy basket since Zion and likely better as his motor is superior. Stamina is an issue and likely will always be especially in the modern NBA.

10. Ryan Dunn - Best player left on the board. I only seen clips and he's probably going to be in my top 3 when it's all said and done. His athleticism and defensive metrics SCREAM, Shawn Marion. Offensively, not so much.

After 10, it becomes a crapshoot.

11. Collier - He's a really good player but no real strength for now. Some will compare him to Smart but he was a way better defender than Collier.

12. Buzelis - Another what if player who's not close. His talent is real like Collier so I'll keep him here.

13. Wagner - I like Wagner more than Dillingham even though Dillingham is better because Wagner has a lot of athletic traits I like, just like Maxey has plus the size (192). Wagner isn't the same quality of shooter Maxey was and that's where his bread will be buttered but Wagner is already a better PG than Maxey was at that time. Maxey is a better defender than Wagner was so Maxey is a tad better as a prospect over Wagner.

14. Dillingham - He's a way better player than Wagner but he's 174 and plays like Monta Ellis. I don't know if he's more than a high-end 6th man but that worked for Tyler Herro and Rob is better than Herro, just nowhere close to the same level of shooter.

15. Kevin McCullar - Best player left on the board

16. Terrance Shannon Jr. - Best player left on the board

17. Kel'el Ware - 3/D 5 but not much of a paint or rim protector. Good passer. He's a unique prospect.

18. Tyler Smith - Potential. Clear potential. Could move up the board.

The rest are clear as day, G-Leaguers. Some could be a lot more, most won't.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#829 » by King Ken » Tue Dec 26, 2023 5:07 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
CptCrunch wrote:Isaiah Collier is a confusing prospect.

Good size like Ant, solid build like Bledsoe, questionable playmaking like Cade.

I can see him becoming really good, but there is a huge chance that he becomes a less talented Cade, who is already not that talented from a point guard half court perspective. Prospects with huge turnover red flags scare me so much. Collier here is throwing the ball away up to 7 times in college! Negative assist to turnover ratio like Cade in college.


what Collier has over Cade is that he has an elite first step and can take guys off the dribble without needing the pick n roll. So he'll be able to ISO where Cade can't unless it's a mismatch by accident or high screen. Because they don't run the pick n roll as much or well in college you're not seeing Collier at his best. Collier will be most similar to guards like Booker, Michell and Edwards. He'll be a demon in the pick n roll and get assists off of that and when he drives and kicks in ISO. This is ideal. He's a great PG prospect because of this. His turnovers will therefore be way less. But I guess I can understand some of doubts and comparison to Cade based off both their college tapes.

That's what scouts think about him. They are high on him. Just watching USC, there isn't much to like.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#830 » by Hal14 » Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:19 pm

EvanZ wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:Harrison Ingram could tease some people this year

I've been feeling like he'd be a late first for a while but almost every time I watch him I feel like he has an underwhelming game :lol:

But yah, 6-7 forward who can shoot and moves the ball well, that's exactly the kind of player that slides and makes people look dumb.


I don't think you got the point of my comment. The reason he's going to "tease" people is that he actually can't shoot. It looks like he's shooting right now because the 3P% is above 40. But it's a small sample and his FT% is still really bad. I'm not buying it. This is a potential Davion Mitchell situation, if UNC somehow goes deep in the tourney. A lot of folks will think Ingram looks like a better prospect than he is.

And Ingram still has same issue he has always had - he's too slow. Just doesn't have the quickness/athleticism to play wing at the NBA level.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#831 » by zike_42 » Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:05 am

King Ken wrote:6. Alex Sarr - Scouts love him for his what if. He can defend all 5 positions. He can shoot a bit. He moves effortlessly. He can create his own basket to a degree. He basically looks like a potential better JJJ with self-offensive creation skills but he isn't good at basketball. He's not good on defense. He's way too light. Doesn't really have a position. He's probably a 4 long-term. He's the player that could just be massively better in 3 years but he could also be the same and just rotten on a bench somewhere. He's not productive at all. JJJ was at this stage. I said avoid Wiseman and I was right. I would avoid Sarr but I do like Sarr chances a lot more than Wiseman. He's extremely talented but I been bit by the extremely talented, non-productive bug before in Cam Reddish. Buyer beware. That said, Sarr doesn't have anywhere near the flaws Cam had. He's just not any good right now. .


Not sure how you can say that someone who is averaging 18ppg, 9rpg, 2apg and 2.5bpg per 36min is "not productive at all." He had 11 points, 7 rebounds and 3 assists in 15 minutes last night.
He's playing with one of the best NBL players of all time, he's not going to be averaging 30ppg. And to say he's "not good on defence" is an eye raiser.
This is a really surprising take on Sarr.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#832 » by King Ken » Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:50 am

zike_42 wrote:
King Ken wrote:6. Alex Sarr - Scouts love him for his what if. He can defend all 5 positions. He can shoot a bit. He moves effortlessly. He can create his own basket to a degree. He basically looks like a potential better JJJ with self-offensive creation skills but he isn't good at basketball. He's not good on defense. He's way too light. Doesn't really have a position. He's probably a 4 long-term. He's the player that could just be massively better in 3 years but he could also be the same and just rotten on a bench somewhere. He's not productive at all. JJJ was at this stage. I said avoid Wiseman and I was right. I would avoid Sarr but I do like Sarr chances a lot more than Wiseman. He's extremely talented but I been bit by the extremely talented, non-productive bug before in Cam Reddish. Buyer beware. That said, Sarr doesn't have anywhere near the flaws Cam had. He's just not any good right now. .


Not sure how you can say that someone who is averaging 18ppg, 9rpg, 2apg and 2.5bpg per 36min is "not productive at all." He had 11 points, 7 rebounds and 3 assists in 15 minutes last night.
He's playing with one of the best NBL players of all time, he's not going to be averaging 30ppg. And to say he's "not good on defence" is an eye raiser.
This is a really surprising take on Sarr.

Not really, high-end NBA prospects produce at their previous level unless they are extremely raw like Anthony Edwards who at least is ++ in size, strength, and athleticism. Look at Bilal Coulibaly. He produced positively. I am not high on drafting players been on everyone's radar for years and they have positive production issues unless they are ++ in all key areas. Sarr is ++ in size and mobility but athleticism isn't ++ and strength is meh even for his age. I pretty much was out on Wiseman even back then and caught hate for it. I am not out on Sarr, I do see positives like his mobility and how functional he is for that size but his athleticism isn't special. He's weak. I've heard comps to JJJ and JJJ was 245 at this age and he was weak too but he was far more productive and JJJ was stronger at this stage.

I like the kid to a degree. His mobility + his size is impressive. He can do a lot within an offense but he's not exactly good at anything and he's weak. You are really betting that he can be around 240-250. I don't see it, he got those Cam Reddish shoulders. If he gains 10 pounds in 5 years and it's not bad weight, I won't be surprised.

I heard some try to compare Sarr to Evan Mobley likely due to both being mobilty+size guys with solid athleticism. That's like comparing Jaylen Brown to GG Jackson. Just a completely different level of Basketball player, especially mentally.

I am not saying Sarr will be a bust but I am not counting on anything special happening.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#833 » by bravor » Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:27 am

His main issue remains his lack of toughness and his willingness to do the dirty job. Thinking of our past prospects, i have Johan Petro's vibe when i look at him (even though Petro was a true 5 and Sarr most likely a 4/5). when things get tough, he will rather throw a jumper (midrange, fade away or even a 3) instead of working a back to the basket play tro trigger some help & pass or to punish a single bad defender/mismatch. And defensively, from what i have seen he gambles a lot, and is too passive in 1&1 situations against guys of his size trying to post him. he is fast and runs back in transition though, but in half court situations i won't trust his defense in the post. The passing part is probably the thing that could turn him into something, yet this is also an area where he does not particulary shine.

At this age obviously things can change quite a lot, esp. with a good coaching staff but we had way too many softies in the past among our prospects to think he will figure it out (unfortunately, the guys with enough toughness are either too limited like Diabate or too raw/too fragile like Batcho). But he has years of development to be productive as a two ways frontcourt player so we will see.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#834 » by deepeeenn » Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:53 pm

Any thoughts on Tidjane Salaun? Saw him pop up in a mock the other day. Didn’t see a thread for him, just his name on some posters mocks or big boards.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#835 » by bigboi » Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:22 pm

King Ken wrote:Not in love with this class. Early so I can change but based on what I see.

Right now, no tiers, just raw rankings so far:

1. Reed Sheppard - Combination of Tyler Ulis and Tyler Herro. By far the best player in this draft. Unlike Ulis, his size and athleticism will translate to the NBA. His scoring and shooting definitely will.

2. Ja'Kobe Walter - Ray Allen like scorer but he can actually defend. He's definitely either #1 or #2 in this class.

3. Cody Williams - He's like a 35-pound lighter De'Andre Hunter on defense but offensively, he gives you a lot of Paul George upside. He's probably two years away from being where he will be physically and ability-wise but his upside makes him #3 overall for me.

4. Nikola Topic - I really see him as Ricky Rubio who can shoot within the mid-range and close to the basket. Maybe can't shoot 3s but he can shoot middys. I see a legit starting PG.

5. Ron Holland - After 4, it becomes role player and situational players draft for me. Ron is a taller Latrell Speewell without the polish. Some will compare him to Tari Eason. He doesn't play winning ball at all but he is extremely productive. I think he's too productive to fall out of the lottery but Eason and recently, Cam Whitmore has so teams are really avoiding the prototype of wings who can't play within a scheme with a passion seeing as those players have been either busts or overpaid, and became busts at insane rates.

6. Alex Sarr - Scouts love him for his what if. He can defend all 5 positions. He can shoot a bit. He moves effortlessly. He can create his own basket to a degree. He basically looks like a potential better JJJ with self-offensive creation skills but he isn't good at basketball. He's not good on defense. He's way too light. Doesn't really have a position. He's probably a 4 long-term. He's the player that could just be massively better in 3 years but he could also be the same and just rotten on a bench somewhere. He's not productive at all. JJJ was at this stage. I said avoid Wiseman and I was right. I would avoid Sarr but I do like Sarr chances a lot more than Wiseman. He's extremely talented but I been bit by the extremely talented, non-productive bug before in Cam Reddish. Buyer beware. That said, Sarr doesn't have anywhere near the flaws Cam had. He's just not any good right now.

7. Zaccharie Risacher - Big fan of Risacher as a 3/D wing with NBA athleticism and size. He can be a 2 or 3. He doesn't really have star upside but he could be a 18ppg scorer in an off-ball role. He's probably the one kid that really fits what we are lacking.

8. Kyle Filipowski - He's gotten 10-15 pounds bigger. He's a 5. He's can score with ease although struggles to get an easy basket. Man, this kid can pass his ass off. Sengun like as a passer but better. Superior defender to Sabonis and Sengun. Great basketball mind. Needs a rim protector next to him at the next level but not a liability at all. Best passing center since Jokic. I would be shocked if he fell out of the top 10. Athleticism might be his biggest issue but I like his game enough to where in time, I can see him being a key contributor.

9. Donovan Clingan - What I like about D. Clingan is he's just athletic enough to do what he does in college in the NBA. You are talking about a better-than-Vuc-level offensive player. Shooting will take time but he can play the PnR. Just impossible to guard in the paint, will remind you of Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. He can protect the paint too. Not really the best rim protector though. I love this kid but stamina is an issue. Probably a 26 mpg max player. For a star player, that might not be enough which is why I can see him sliding to the late lottery but he's a sure thing to me. He's one of the best at scoring an easy basket since Zion and likely better as his motor is superior. Stamina is an issue and likely will always be especially in the modern NBA.

10. Ryan Dunn - Best player left on the board. I only seen clips and he's probably going to be in my top 3 when it's all said and done. His athleticism and defensive metrics SCREAM, Shawn Marion. Offensively, not so much.

After 10, it becomes a crapshoot.

11. Collier - He's a really good player but no real strength for now. Some will compare him to Smart but he was a way better defender than Collier.

12. Buzelis - Another what if player who's not close. His talent is real like Collier so I'll keep him here.

13. Wagner - I like Wagner more than Dillingham even though Dillingham is better because Wagner has a lot of athletic traits I like, just like Maxey has plus the size (192). Wagner isn't the same quality of shooter Maxey was and that's where his bread will be buttered but Wagner is already a better PG than Maxey was at that time. Maxey is a better defender than Wagner was so Maxey is a tad better as a prospect over Wagner.

14. Dillingham - He's a way better player than Wagner but he's 174 and plays like Monta Ellis. I don't know if he's more than a high-end 6th man but that worked for Tyler Herro and Rob is better than Herro, just nowhere close to the same level of shooter.

15. Kevin McCullar - Best player left on the board

16. Terrance Shannon Jr. - Best player left on the board

17. Kel'el Ware - 3/D 5 but not much of a paint or rim protector. Good passer. He's a unique prospect.

18. Tyler Smith - Potential. Clear potential. Could move up the board.

The rest are clear as day, G-Leaguers. Some could be a lot more, most won't.


If a 6’3 Tyler herro is the best player by far then this is easily the worst draft of all time
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#836 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:24 pm

Anyone else think there is an outside shot that PJ Hall becomes a Naz Reid caliber bench big?

Lots to like outside the age.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#837 » by Hoopz Afrik » Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:55 pm

BlazersBroncos wrote:Anyone else think there is an outside shot that PJ Hall becomes a Naz Reid caliber bench big?

Lots to like outside the age.


I could see it. I think he's going to be drafted higher than we might expect.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#838 » by Hoopz Afrik » Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:58 pm

Where are you all with Johnell Davis and Alijah Martin as prospects? I think there is an NBA player in both of them, specifically Johnell. Alijah might end up being a harder sell.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#839 » by clyde21 » Thu Dec 28, 2023 7:09 pm

Hoopz Afrik wrote:Where are you all with Johnell Davis and Alijah Martin as prospects? I think there is an NBA player in both of them, specifically Johnell. Alijah might end up being a harder sell.


been talking about Johnell as a sleeper since last year, really like him as a second round flyer.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#840 » by babyjax13 » Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:49 am

For anyone who hasn't seen a full game of Tidjane Salaun:



The competition looks pretty bad, the American players for Antwerp played for Brown, Utah State, Middle Tennessee, and East Tennessee State. Butterworth was at least decent for Utah State back in the day, but it's still not great competition (and it doesn't look like it watching). That said, he really pops off the screen. The jumper is really nice, he has fantastic end-to-end speed. The lateral speed doesn't look elite, neither does the verticality, but it is just one game. Like what I saw, just wish he were in a better league. He and Topic will likely be the two youngest players selected in the draft.

And scrolling through here you can find Saluan and Risacher games: https://www.youtube.com/@BasketballCL/streams
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