clyde21 wrote:The-Power wrote:Wiseman was in a tough spot, Oregon really sold out to take him out of the game, always having a body on him and shading him with a second. Memphis should have gone to the PnR earlier but all in all I can't be too harsh on Wiseman. His presence alone changes the dynamic of games and I love that he does two underrated things: 1) go hard after rebounds and just naturally piles them up; and 2) set really good screens, which is rare in a highly-touted young big but will benefit him and his team tremendously in the future. If he can effectively patrol the paint and not get burned on switches, he can be an elite defender – that alone with his ability to pressure the rim and hit FTs makes him a great prospect.
this is why it's tough for me to take a C in the top-5 in today's NBA if you can't run the offense through him, you have to run plays FOR Wiseman but you can't really run plays/offense THRU him...and he's not an elite defender on top of it...i think we saw this with Deandre his freshmen year in the tournament, all they had to do was deny him the ball and he was really irrelevant out there...the question is will he be good enough on defense to still be a + guy on the court even when he's not getting his looks on offense
he's gonna be an elite rebounder that's for sure, incredible size/instincts on the boards...but we already have a close analog to that in the NBA in Andre Drummond...dude drops 20/20 every other game...but where has that even gotten Detroit at this point? the impact is just not what the raw stats indicate...because the majority of his offensive productions is just on lobs/rim running/put backs and he's not creating offense on his own and he's just above average defensively.
don't get me wrong he's definitely a top10 guy, just don't think I can take him over some of the top creators/wings at this point.
Fair enough regarding your last point.
And yeah, you definitely can't run the offense through Wiseman. However, that doesn't mean you have to run plays for him in order to have him be a positive on offense. By the way, I also wouldn't want to run my offense through Embiid – though clearly more skilled than Wiseman – but there's no denying that he's an elite player when he's on the court. I think the difference is expectations and assessment of defense.
On offense, I see Wiseman as potentially elite in a Clint Capela role. Be an elite PnR partner for your team's primary creator, be ready for passes close to the rim, crush the boards. Add to that the ability to capitalize on mismatches – I think Wiseman will get there. You can still be a 20 PPG player and virtually none of the offense is actually run through you; though of course you'll be set up quite a bit, but that's just smart basketball. If you then add a reliable midrange jumper, you're absolutely a clear positive.
Yet Wiseman's ultimate impact hinges on his defense. I would immediately agree that for Wiseman to be a top-tier prospect, he has to be able to anchor your defense. You don't believe he's an elite defender and that's fair, I cannot disprove that and will certainly look closely at his development. This concerns especially his ability to guard away from the rim. But let's be clear about one thing: Wiseman is going to be massive, he's already added a lot of mass over the summer. I think Wiseman has the chance to be as intimidating in the paint as anybody (as a rebounder, shot blocker, physical presence) – or anybody not named Embiid, who chose to pursue mass at the expense of some mobility. Add to this his motor and desire to play defense, and he can definitely reach DPoY level – I already said that watching him in HS.
If his median outcome is an improved Clint Capela on offense and a DPoY candidate, that's a top 3 pick to me – and that's how I view it. Or let's say Rudy Gobert with a midrange jumper and two post moves. If you don't believe in his defense, then that changes everything of course. Not saying you're wrong, nor saying you're right: just that we'll have to see more from him in college and hopefully when the draft comes, we'll know better whether he's elite, just above average, or anything in between.
