Lonzo Ball

[GimmeDat]

He barely ran pick and roll at UCLA plus he has no mid range or jumper off the dribble


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Yes, that's why I noted he'd look less impress in a more PnR dominated league.

Haha my bad I read that wrong but I agreed with you before the draft and now.


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Haha, all good

[saphan]

I think the combination is especially telling. He wasn't a great FT shooter at UCLA but was certainly better than 53%.

13 FTA is hardly a sample size where we should use percentages and draw conclusions based on that.

LOL, I didn't know it was only 13 FTA (although I probably could have figured, given how many games they've played!)

Yeah, I didn't noticed that small sample too, although his FT percentages correlate completely with his poor FG%. On the other hand it is interesting too that he has such a small sample. He is playing more then 33 MPG and only gets 1.3 FTA. He looks just so passive for long stretches...

[XTraderXL]

I was always under the impression that he'd look less impressive in the more PnR oriented NBA, but I'm not sure how you can say things like it was clear he would have problems shooting the ball. He shot extremely well at UCLA. The knocks on his shooting 'translating' was whether he could actually get his shot off, and that hasn't appeared to be a problem.

Then how did I predict this before the draft? It was quite easy to see actually. He has a horrible form so its hard for him to get the shots off cleanly when the defender is close. Defender doesnt even have to be in his space, he just needs to have his arm extended. That gives the defender extra 3-4feet to guard the drive and Lonzo has to change his shooting motion if he doesnt want to get stripped. In college he had no such problems because most teams are bad and a high % of players will never play pro ball, NBA is very different. He will improve his % but he will never be great player because he is not elite in any other way, not even passing. He is average passer in the half court, the only thing he is really good is passing on an open floor but thats it.

[Jkam31]

I was always under the impression that he'd look less impressive in the more PnR oriented NBA, but I'm not sure how you can say things like it was clear he would have problems shooting the ball. He shot extremely well at UCLA. The knocks on his shooting 'translating' was whether he could actually get his shot off, and that hasn't appeared to be a problem.

Then how did I predict this before the draft? It was quite easy to see actually. He has a horrible form so its hard for him to get the shots off cleanly when the defender is close. Defender doesnt even have to be in his space, he just needs to have his arm extended. That gives the defender extra 3-4feet to guard the drive and Lonzo has to change his shooting motion if he doesnt want to get stripped. In college he had no such problems because most teams are bad and a high % of players will never play pro ball, NBA is very different. He will improve his % but he will never be great player because he is not elite in any other way, not even passing. He is average passer in the half court, the only thing he is really good is passing on an open floor but thats it.

Ya he’s averaging in half court passing told people that before the draft to buy they wanna follow the hype. Also gonna are this long passes he had in SL he’d do it once a quarter now he can only do it once in a blue moon


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[doordoor123]

I was always under the impression that he'd look less impressive in the more PnR oriented NBA, but I'm not sure how you can say things like it was clear he would have problems shooting the ball. He shot extremely well at UCLA. The knocks on his shooting 'translating' was whether he could actually get his shot off, and that hasn't appeared to be a problem.

Then how did I predict this before the draft? It was quite easy to see actually. He has a horrible form so its hard for him to get the shots off cleanly when the defender is close. Defender doesnt even have to be in his space, he just needs to have his arm extended. That gives the defender extra 3-4feet to guard the drive and Lonzo has to change his shooting motion if he doesnt want to get stripped. In college he had no such problems because most teams are bad and a high % of players will never play pro ball, NBA is very different. He will improve his % but he will never be great player because he is not elite in any other way, not even passing. He is average passer in the half court, the only thing he is really good is passing on an open floor but thats it.

Ya he’s averaging in half court passing told people that before the draft to buy they wanna follow the hype. Also gonna are this long passes he had in SL he’d do it once a quarter now he can only do it once in a blue moon


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The Lakers have a bunch of issues and it's why they aren't running much and it's why Lonzo isn't effective enough.

#1. Lonzo needs to make his shots. If Lonzo was making them, he'd demand attention from opposing defenses and open up the floor a bit more. It would also help keep the team energized. It's draining for teammates to see guys shoot miss after miss.

#2. Teammates need to buy in. So far this season, too many guys either aren't paying attention on defense or they're holding the ball way too much. I know they're playing well, but both Clarkson and Randle are stopping the rest of the team from playing well because neither have a good feel for the game. Both need to pass it out rather than attacking all the time and they need to start making the right passes. Too often, the both of them have tunnel vision and pass to the wrong guy, when there is a guy wide open right next to them. They need to move the ball. This hurts the entire team because everyone needs to touch the ball in this offense.

#3. Need shooters. So far Kuzma is the only reliable shooter night in and night out on the team and that's an issue. And sometimes Lopez. The reason Lonzo passes so well in summer league is because the floor was so opened up with all the shooters they had. He was able to easily find the open guy at the three point line or rolling to the basket. Too many guys are hesitating. The Lakers hesitate WAY too much before they shoot and they miss every time. Honestly, look how many times they don't take the shot before they do, it's ridiculous. None have confidence in their shot, except Kuzma and sometimes Brook.


I know they're winning some games, but I watch every Laker game and these games are disgusting to watch in terms of the beauty of basketball. Phil Jackson is probably rolling his eyes all game watching this.

[reanimator]

The biggest issue with Lonzo is he needs another creator to let him play off-ball more.

The Lakers are asking him to create an unreasonable amount of offense given his skillset.

Too much ISO/PnR and not enough motion and catch + shoot opportunities.

[Illmatic12]

He can’t even hit wide open shots right now. I didn’t anticipate his shooting would be even this bad

That’s the low hanging fruit is to just bring up his wide open shooting % to a reasonable level, and convert more of his layups

[GIMME_DATT]

He lacks serious confidence out there

Another problem is zero fire from him seems like he doesn't like the game at all

[ILikeLollies]

Because sometimes things are obvious and the need to be right overtakes the ability to be introspective

what's the obvious part?

That he's not going to be anything but a player who's only elevated by the players around him.

And that's fine for a mid 1st rounder.

[ILikeLollies]

Also I'll add the problem with Lonzo is if he starts making his shots nba defences will just start really cramping the left of his body.

[atlantabbq99]

Its just really bad now. Lonzo Ball is on the verge of being one of the worst bust in sports history, because his bust status is based on his low skill and talent and not due to injury, or mental health, or poor life decisions. He is legitimately bad and really trying hard and working hard in being good, but just failing at it.

[PLO]

The biggest issue with Lonzo is he needs another creator to let him play off-ball more.

The Lakers are asking him to create an unreasonable amount of offense given his skillset.

Too much ISO/PnR and not enough motion and catch + shoot opportunities.

So he needs someone like DAngelo Russell?

[PLO]

Would be interested to read what the pro-Ball people have to say now. In particular the mods Marcus and Duke4Life. I'm not interested in "told you sos" more interested in if they have reassessed Ball from when we were arguing about Ball compared to CP3/Nash etc and if they have hope for him as a starting PG in the NBA and why he isn't converting his hyper-efficient college production into something remotely similar in the NBA.

[Marcus]

Would be interested to read what the pro-Ball people have to say now. In particular the mods Marcus and Duke4Life. I'm not interested in "told you sos" more interested in if they have reassessed Ball from when we were arguing about Ball compared to CP3/Nash etc and if they have hope for him as a starting PG in the NBA and why he isn't converting his hyper-efficient college production into something remotely similar in the NBA.

Never called him CP3 or Nash. Still think he'll get it right eventually. His confidence is way down. Still don't think the form is the problem Hes got the yips when it comes to his shot. Wind up aside he's prolonging it by thinking should I pass this time instead. Never was a Uber aggressive scorer but didnt think it would matter because he would hit his shots when he got his looks. I agree with the notion that he's on the ball too much right now and needs to play off it a bit. Fighting over picks better and more engaged defensively still needs a ton of work on angles though. Rebounding is good but yeah everything comes back to that shot. Hes got to get his confidence back and pick his body language up. Less hesitation and play instinctual again. Team construct is a problem but not enough to where Zo should be this affected by it. Hasn't been pretty at all but I'm still hopeful for him to get it.

[PLO]

Would be interested to read what the pro-Ball people have to say now. In particular the mods Marcus and Duke4Life. I'm not interested in "told you sos" more interested in if they have reassessed Ball from when we were arguing about Ball compared to CP3/Nash etc and if they have hope for him as a starting PG in the NBA and why he isn't converting his hyper-efficient college production into something remotely similar in the NBA.

Never called him CP3 or Nash. Still think he'll get it right eventually. His confidence is way down. Still don't think the form is the problem Hes got the yips when it comes to his shot. Wind up aside he's prolonging it by thinking should I pass this time instead. Never was a Uber aggressive scorer but didnt think it would matter because he would hit his shots when he got his looks. I agree with the notion that he's on the ball too much right now and needs to play off it a bit. Fighting over picks better and more engaged defensively still needs a ton of work on angles though. Rebounding is good but yeah everything comes back to that shot. Hes got to get his confidence back and pick his body language up. Less hesitation and play instinctual again. Team construct is a problem but not enough to where Zo should be this affected by it. Hasn't been pretty at all but I'm still hopeful for him to get it.

Thanks for the reply.

[Marcus]

Would be interested to read what the pro-Ball people have to say now. In particular the mods Marcus and Duke4Life. I'm not interested in "told you sos" more interested in if they have reassessed Ball from when we were arguing about Ball compared to CP3/Nash etc and if they have hope for him as a starting PG in the NBA and why he isn't converting his hyper-efficient college production into something remotely similar in the NBA.

Never called him CP3 or Nash. Still think he'll get it right eventually. His confidence is way down. Still don't think the form is the problem Hes got the yips when it comes to his shot. Wind up aside he's prolonging it by thinking should I pass this time instead. Never was a Uber aggressive scorer but didnt think it would matter because he would hit his shots when he got his looks. I agree with the notion that he's on the ball too much right now and needs to play off it a bit. Fighting over picks better and more engaged defensively still needs a ton of work on angles though. Rebounding is good but yeah everything comes back to that shot. Hes got to get his confidence back and pick his body language up. Less hesitation and play instinctual again. Team construct is a problem but not enough to where Zo should be this affected by it. Hasn't been pretty at all but I'm still hopeful for him to get it.

Thanks for the reply.

No problem

[XTraderXL]

He cant play off ball, he is standing around and watching his teammates. I have been saying he is overrated as a passer in the half court but somehow he is still considered elite because he can make 2-3 good outlet passes per game. He will get better for sure but we can all agree that he will never live up to the hype.

[J_T]

I think his father should have a thread here as well. Even odds that he'd be posting in it.

[Jkam31]

I think his father should have a thread here as well. Even odds that he'd be posting in it.

Lakerdynasty with all his troll baiting moronic posts


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[Mulhollanddrive]

Biggest difference in style of play is that he's not getting deep enough into the paint to pass out to open shooters, that was his primary mode of attack in college. Teams are also more aware of his transition passing, he has no pick and roll and can't shoot at the moment. That all makes up most of his game.