Alperen Şengün

[yoyoboy]

And you really need to drop the whole victim complex where you see everything as some attack on your guy.

Sengun isn't Mirotic's guy. His main point is how American media commonly doubts the size of European players and prospects.

And that’s great he played center 80% of the time overseas, but I promise you that won’t be the case in the NBA for him to be most effective.

Nah, he'll be a Center. It's similar to Sabonis, imo.

I think you can get away with playing Sabonis at center during the regular season, but come playoffs, that lack of rim protection will get quickly exposed. You can’t have a guy averaging 0.4 bpg and 0.3 bpg in the RS and PS respectively as your last line of defense if you hope to actually contend.

[K_chile22]

And you really need to drop the whole victim complex where you see everything as some attack on your guy.

Sengun isn't Mirotic's guy. His main point is how American media commonly doubts the size of European players and prospects.

And that’s great he played center 80% of the time overseas, but I promise you that won’t be the case in the NBA for him to be most effective.

Nah, he'll be a Center. It's similar to Sabonis, imo.

I think you can get away with playing Sabonis at center during the regular season, but come playoffs, that lack of rim protection will get quickly exposed. You can’t have a guy averaging 0.4 bpg and 0.3 bpg in the RS and PS respectively as your last line of defense if you hope to actually contend.

Sengun is actually fairly effective at the rim, it's defending, uh, everywhere else that gives concern. Think he will be a good player, because guys who do what he did at that age generally don't fail, but have a hard time seeing him be effective in the playoffs when teams target him

[Nuntius]

Nah, he'll be a Center. It's similar to Sabonis, imo.

Sabonis isn't a center.

How many times we have to go over this? If Sabonis is a center Turner would have been gone a long time ago.

I'm a Pacers fan and I watch Sabonis night in and night out. He is 100% a Center offensively.

Now, defensively Domas isn't a Center. He isn't a Power Forward either. If we're being honest, Domas doesn't quite have a position on the defensive end. He is best used next to a rim protector that can compensate for his lack of rim protection. That's why Turner hasn't been gone. It is because he is the kind of rim protector that can help cover for Domas defensively.

[Charm]

And you really need to drop the whole victim complex where you see everything as some attack on your guy.

Sengun isn't Mirotic's guy. His main point is how American media commonly doubts the size of European players and prospects.

And that’s great he played center 80% of the time overseas, but I promise you that won’t be the case in the NBA for him to be most effective.

Nah, he'll be a Center. It's similar to Sabonis, imo.

I think you can get away with playing Sabonis at center during the regular season, but come playoffs, that lack of rim protection will get quickly exposed. You can’t have a guy averaging 0.4 bpg and 0.3 bpg in the RS and PS respectively as your last line of defense if you hope to actually contend.

Do you think Sengun will be as bad a shot blocker as Sabonis? I just haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is a realistic outcome, barring some sort of debilitating injury. Sengun's block rate would have to decline by like 80%, and that degree of regression doesn't normally happen for a young, healthy prospect.

I don't think there's a case that his shot blocking numbers in Turkey are inflated either, as there haven't been any cases in recent years of random guys coming out of nowhere and putting up big block numbers.

[Nuntius]

Sengun isn't Mirotic's guy. His main point is how American media commonly doubts the size of European players and prospects.



Nah, he'll be a Center. It's similar to Sabonis, imo.

I think you can get away with playing Sabonis at center during the regular season, but come playoffs, that lack of rim protection will get quickly exposed. You can’t have a guy averaging 0.4 bpg and 0.3 bpg in the RS and PS respectively as your last line of defense if you hope to actually contend.

Do you think Sengun will be as bad a shot blocker as Sabonis? I just haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is a realistic outcome, barring some sort of debilitating injury. Sengun's block rate would have to decline by like 80%, and that degree of regression doesn't normally happen for a young, healthy prospect.

I don't think there's a case that his shot blocking numbers in Turkey are inflated either, as there haven't been any cases in recent years of random guys coming out of nowhere and putting up big block numbers.

Yeah, based on everything I've seen, Sengun doesn't strike me as an incapable shot blocker. He seems decent at it. He just isn't someone who can defend in space.

[Charm]

Yeah, based on everything I've seen, Sengun doesn't strike me as an incapable shot blocker. He seems decent at it. He just isn't someone who can defend in space.

And to me, that's not a huge concern given that he already brings a lot to the table defensively. Very good rebounder, good motor, solid shot blocker, very good basketball IQ, quick hands, good awareness of passing lanes, strong lower body, reasonably quick off the floor. If he was additionally a good perimeter defender in space, then considering his youth and the relatively high level of competition, he'd be a borderline elite defensive prospect. As it stands, he has some some clear strengths, some areas in which he's just okay, and some areas where he needs to improve defensively. The same could be said for virtually any other 18-year-old.

[Nuntius]

Yeah, based on everything I've seen, Sengun doesn't strike me as an incapable shot blocker. He seems decent at it. He just isn't someone who can defend in space.

And to me, that's not a huge concern given that he already brings a lot to the table defensively. Very good rebounder, good motor, solid shot blocker, very good basketball IQ, quick hands, good awareness of passing lanes, strong lower body, reasonably quick off the floor. If he was additionally a good perimeter defender in space, then considering his youth and the relatively high level of competition, he'd be a borderline elite defensive prospect. As it stands, he has some some clear strengths, some areas in which he's just okay, and some areas where he needs to improve defensively. The same could be said for virtually any other 18-year-old.

True. I'd also like to point something out about Domas, the player I talked about. It's not like he's unplayable defensively. Yeah, you definitely do not want him to be your defensive anchor but it's not like he outright kills you out there. If he plays next to a rim protector, he isn't any different than any offensive star who focuses primarily on offense and has others cover for him defensively.

So, if he's better than Domas on that end (something which definitely is likely) then he's gonna be at least passable.

[EvanZ]

Nah, he'll be a Center. It's similar to Sabonis, imo.

Sabonis isn't a center.

How many times we have to go over this? If Sabonis is a center Turner would have been gone a long time ago.

I'm a Pacers fan and I watch Sabonis night in and night out. He is 100% a Center offensively.

I mean...this ain't a compliment.

[Nuntius]

Sabonis isn't a center.

How many times we have to go over this? If Sabonis is a center Turner would have been gone a long time ago.

I'm a Pacers fan and I watch Sabonis night in and night out. He is 100% a Center offensively.

I mean...this ain't a compliment.

Compliment or not, it explains what I was talking about. Domas is better at operating inside the paint so that makes him a Center on the offensive end of the court. Same goes for someone like Embiid, for example. You don't want them operating in the perimeter even if they're skilled enough to do it.

PS: Obviously, I'm not trying to compare Domas and Embiid here. Embiid is the much more potent offensive weapon, I'm not trying to argue against that.

[EvanZ]

I'm a Pacers fan and I watch Sabonis night in and night out. He is 100% a Center offensively.

I mean...this ain't a compliment.

Compliment or not, it explains what I was talking about. Domas is better at operating inside the paint so that makes him a Center on the offensive end of the court. Same goes for someone like Embiid, for example. You don't want them operating in the perimeter even if they're skilled enough to do it.

PS: Obviously, I'm not trying to compare Domas and Embiid here. Embiid is the much more potent offensive weapon, I'm not trying to argue against that.

You understand that if someone is calling Sengun a center it's really about his position on defense right? Sabonis isn't a center because he's not able to defend the position, at least, not really well. Whether he's a center on the offensive side is more of a moot point to me. I think he's basically like a 90s PF.

[yoyoboy]

Sengun isn't Mirotic's guy. His main point is how American media commonly doubts the size of European players and prospects.



Nah, he'll be a Center. It's similar to Sabonis, imo.

I think you can get away with playing Sabonis at center during the regular season, but come playoffs, that lack of rim protection will get quickly exposed. You can’t have a guy averaging 0.4 bpg and 0.3 bpg in the RS and PS respectively as your last line of defense if you hope to actually contend.

Do you think Sengun will be as bad a shot blocker as Sabonis? I just haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this is a realistic outcome, barring some sort of debilitating injury. Sengun's block rate would have to decline by like 80%, and that degree of regression doesn't normally happen for a young, healthy prospect.

I don't think there's a case that his shot blocking numbers in Turkey are inflated either, as there haven't been any cases in recent years of random guys coming out of nowhere and putting up big block numbers.

No, definitely not. Again, Sengun is 3rd on my board. If I thought he would end up a helpless defender, even in spite of the fact I think he'll be great on offense, I probably wouldn't take him in the top half of the lottery just because I value defense from bigs so much. I have him 3rd on my board because I do believe he'll be decent on defense. But even if he can manage a block or so per game in the NBA, I still don't believe he'll provide the necessary rim protection at the center position in the NBA and is ideally suited for PF. It's easy to say that because his stocks and rebounds and IQ are so good at such a young age in a really high-level league, he's a shoe-in to translate to the NBA, but I just don't think he has the size or athleticism to compensate that would allow him to be a real deterrent at the rim against a higher level of athletes. And I don't think he projects as a super mobile switchy guy either, which could help him be defensively impactful at the 5 even without being a real rim protector. Physical factors ultimately cap upside, regardless of how advanced you are already at a certain age.

I'm confused though why people are so against the idea of him being a PF in the NBA? He clearly has the shooting upside to be a floor spacer. He has great size for the 4. And defensively, he won't be forced to guard the PnR as much.

[Nuntius]

You understand that if someone is calling Sengun a center it's really about his position on defense right?

Yes. And that's one of the reasons why I consider him a Center. He is not good at defending in space but does a good enough job as an interior defender which makes me believe that his best defensive position is Center.

Sabonis isn't a center because he's not able to defend the position, at least, not really well.

Sabonis cannot defend any position really well. But he does have a position, doesn't he? He isn't positionless

Whether he's a center on the offensive side is more of a moot point to me. I think he's basically like a 90s PF.

Yes, exactly. And 90s PFs are Centers in today's game.

[EvanZ]

To be clear the Rockets can play Sengun at center. Hell they could play him at point guard lol.

[clyde21]

he can be a PF but it really depends on who he's bookended by, preferably the 5 next to him would be a good rim protector who can stretch, and the 3 under him be able to switch onto 4s when needed

when people say he can't play the 4, i don't think they mean ever, I just think they mean as his primary position unless it's in a very special lineup or against a specific matchup.

that's essentially the problem with Sengun, as skilled as he is, he's just an awkward fit in a lot of the standard NBA lineups right now.

[Marcus]

he can be a PF but it really depends on who he's bookended by, preferably the 5 next to him would be a good rim protector who can stretch, and the 3 under him be able to switch onto 4s when needed

when people say he can't play the 4, i don't think they mean ever, I just think they mean as his primary position unless it's in a very special lineup or against a specific matchup.

that's essentially the problem with Sengun, as skilled as he is, he's just an awkward fit in a lot of the standard NBA lineups right now.

is the fit next to Garuba less than ideal with what we expect Garuba to do on the floor?

[clyde21]

he can be a PF but it really depends on who he's bookended by, preferably the 5 next to him would be a good rim protector who can stretch, and the 3 under him be able to switch onto 4s when needed

when people say he can't play the 4, i don't think they mean ever, I just think they mean as his primary position unless it's in a very special lineup or against a specific matchup.

that's essentially the problem with Sengun, as skilled as he is, he's just an awkward fit in a lot of the standard NBA lineups right now.

is the fit next to Garuba less than ideal with what we expect Garuba to do on the floor?

could be good if Garuba shot develops, but you're still kinda small too, Garuba is a good defender but he's not gonna block a lot of shots at the rim.

just, a lot of things have to go right to play Sengun @ the 4 full time. i think the safer bet is at the 5 hole, but even then you'd prefer a 4 that can block some shots too.

off top he'd be a good fit next to Jaren Jackson, wouldn't really matter who's the 5 or 4 in that scenario essentially.

[Marcus]

he can be a PF but it really depends on who he's bookended by, preferably the 5 next to him would be a good rim protector who can stretch, and the 3 under him be able to switch onto 4s when needed

when people say he can't play the 4, i don't think they mean ever, I just think they mean as his primary position unless it's in a very special lineup or against a specific matchup.

that's essentially the problem with Sengun, as skilled as he is, he's just an awkward fit in a lot of the standard NBA lineups right now.

is the fit next to Garuba less than ideal with what we expect Garuba to do on the floor?

could be good if Garuba shot develops, but you're still kinda small too, Garuba is a good defender but he's not gonna block a lot of shots at the rim.

just, a lot of things have to go right to play Sengun @ the 4 full time. i think the safer bet is at the 5 hole, but even then you'd prefer a 4 that can block some shots too.

off top he'd be a good fit next to Jaren Jackson, wouldn't really matter who's the 5 or 4 in that scenario essentially.

you going full trigger to Grizzlies fans

[yoyoboy]

If Garuba translates the way he’s expected to, then yeah he could probably make Sengun at center work. But that’s because Garuba’s a rare player who could have elite defensive center kind of impact at the forward position. I think alongside most PFs, you wouldn’t want Sengun slotted at the 5.

Houston had a great draft man. If only they picked Suggs or Mobley ahead of Green.

[clyde21]

Hou had a good draft but it's weird having 4 first round picks, i know it'd be a good problem to have but what if all 4 players (Green/Alpy/Garuba/JC) are up for rookie max extensions in four years

[Marcus]

Hou had a good draft but it's weird having 4 first round picks, i know it'd be a good problem to have but what if all 4 players (Green/Alpy/Garuba/JC) are up for rookie max extensions in four years

gotta make one of those Presti Harden or Ibaka decisions