Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012?

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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#21 » by Grits n Gravy » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:32 am

ManualRam wrote:
Grits n Gravy wrote:looks like he's got a pretty bad motor, no fire and pretty soft...only watched 1st half of illinois game.


Thats pretty much the opposite of what he is.
Cant see how you could come to that conclusion after watching this half. Hes working hard to get position and the guards were doing a sht job getting him the ball. When he did get touches he made stuff happen.

He does need to improve his defensive awareness. Also needs to go straight up on blocks instead of trying to swipe the ball.

i saw him being extremely stand offish on defense when one of maryland bigs grabs an offensive rebound or gets deep position....he doesn't pursue rebounds, he reminded me of soft pau of those 08 playoffs on defense...just not fighting and getting after it on the boards or in the paint on defense.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#22 » by peachbucket » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:33 am

Grits n Gravy wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
Grits n Gravy wrote:looks like he's got a pretty bad motor, no fire and pretty soft...only watched 1st half of illinois game.


Thats pretty much the opposite of what he is.
Cant see how you could come to that conclusion after watching this half. Hes working hard to get position and the guards were doing a sht job getting him the ball. When he did get touches he made stuff happen.

He does need to improve his defensive awareness. Also needs to go straight up on blocks instead of trying to swipe the ball.

i saw him being extremely stand offish on defense when one of maryland bigs grabs an offensive rebound or gets deep position....he doesn't pursue rebounds, he reminded me of soft pau of those 08 playoffs on defense...just not fighting and getting after it on the boards or in the paint on defense.


I think your both right. I think his motor is fine as I do see good effort on both offense and defense. What I'm not seeing is the physicality and aggression that you would like to see from someone with his size and athleticism (like Anthony Davis). Maybe its because he's afraid to get into foul trouble or maybe its because he doesn't like to get his hands dirty and bang....in any case, I think it's definitely correctable and will come. He does show some nastiness at times which is a good sign.

Agreed with the guards doing a **** job of getting him the ball. He should have had three times as many touches as they really should have been running most of their possessions through him in the half court set...that's on Bruce Weber. He shows really nice passing ability out of the post.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#23 » by Cammo101 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:03 pm

In other words, he is a talented big man who needs another year of college to refine his game.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#24 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:25 pm

Cammo101 wrote:In other words, he is a talented big man who needs another year of college to refine his game.

Yup. I watched the Maryland game last night, and that's the conclusion. There's a ton of upside, but there's also a lot of improvement he needs to make before he can play well in the NBA. I think he's a bit of a boom or bust type. Will he get tougher and learn to play hard on a consistent basis? Flip a coin.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#25 » by ManualRam » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:48 pm

Cammo101 wrote:In other words, he is a talented big man who needs another year of college to refine his game.

i've seen rawer big guys taken in the lotto.
it's not like he's completely raw though. hes already shown: fundamental understanding of positioning on offense (ie making himself available), nice touch in the paint area with the ability to turn over his left shoulder for either a jump hook or a short jumper, the ability to pass out of the post, mid-range jumper out to 15-17, can hit FTs, doesnt bite on pump fakes on defense and shows good outlet passing.

all that to go along with his athleticism and massive 7'1 wide shouldered, long armed frame and you got a kid who could easily be taken in the lotto on potential alone. considering the lack of depth at that position in this draft, i think he enters this yr and is taken high.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#26 » by peachbucket » Thu Dec 1, 2011 6:33 am

ManualRam wrote:
Cammo101 wrote:In other words, he is a talented big man who needs another year of college to refine his game.

i've seen rawer big guys taken in the lotto.
it's not like he's completely raw though. hes already shown: fundamental understanding of positioning on offense (ie making himself available), nice touch in the paint area with the ability to turn over his left shoulder for either a jump hook or a short jumper, the ability to pass out of the post, mid-range jumper out to 15-17, can hit FTs, doesnt bite on pump fakes on defense and shows good outlet passing.

all that to go along with his athleticism and massive 7'1 wide shouldered, long armed frame and you got a kid who could easily be taken in the lotto on potential alone. considering the lack of depth at that position in this draft, i think he enters this yr and is taken high.


I actually don't think he is raw at all. I see an awful lot of fundamentals and skill out there when I watch him play. I think that 20 lbs of muscle is what's keeping him from putting up 20 10 5 numbers in college which would have him in the discussion as a top three pick. An NBA strength program should be able to accomplish that fairly quickly and then you are talking about a player that can contribute at the next level as a rebounder and shotblocker and get significant minutes on the floor. A smart GM will see this...he won't drop out of the lottery.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#27 » by ManualRam » Thu Dec 1, 2011 7:17 am

if he's not the least bit raw then he's polished. i dont think he's polished. his post moves are very basic. he can pretty much drop step or turn over his left shoulder for hooks. he's gonna need more than that at the next level. a guy with his agility will need a face up game as well. he doesnt have one to speak of other than the face up jumper, but those are more of the catch and shoot variety. he also needs a lot of work on his defensive awareness (including defensive rebound positioning). he can block shots right now because he's so long and athletic, but he's out of position a lot.

as an aside, he'd need another coach to be a 20-10-5 player in college. he was effective in the post, but did you see how weber used him in the 2nd half in his "stall ball" offense? he was almost exclusively used as an off the ball screener down the stretch.
i'll stop there...no need for a weber rant on this board.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#28 » by peachbucket » Thu Dec 1, 2011 8:57 am

I guess maybe I misused the word raw. There is no question that he has a ways to go with all of the things you have mentioned and specifically developing his offense moves. All I meant was that I am seeing all the fundamentals in place (passing, shooting, and ballhandling) which leads me to believe that he will put it together much quicker that someone who still has to develop those basic skills. It will be interesting to see his progress at the end of this season.

I don't know much about Weber but I'm guessing his strength is as a recruiter and not an as an X's and O's guy/stratagist. If Manascalco doesn't go 5/8 from 3 then they lose that game to a much inferior Maryland opponent. Meyers must have had his man sealed with no weakside help about a half dozen times and the one time they made the proper pass he got an easy dunk. If they simply threw the ball to him in the post on a few consecutive possetions they would have forced Maryland to double and could have gotten open looks from all over the court. Instead Weber elects a scheme where the game is decided on who hits more threes...ridiculous. Granted, those guards are not the best passers, but there is clearly no directive from the coaching staff to get the ball down low.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#29 » by ManualRam » Thu Dec 1, 2011 10:00 pm

peachbucket wrote:I guess maybe I misused the word raw. There is no question that he has a ways to go with all of the things you have mentioned and specifically developing his offense moves. All I meant was that I am seeing all the fundamentals in place (passing, shooting, and ballhandling) which leads me to believe that he will put it together much quicker that someone who still has to develop those basic skills. It will be interesting to see his progress at the end of this season.

I don't know much about Weber but I'm guessing his strength is as a recruiter and not an as an X's and O's guy/stratagist. If Manascalco doesn't go 5/8 from 3 then they lose that game to a much inferior Maryland opponent. Meyers must have had his man sealed with no weakside help about a half dozen times and the one time they made the proper pass he got an easy dunk. If they simply threw the ball to him in the post on a few consecutive possetions they would have forced Maryland to double and could have gotten open looks from all over the court. Instead Weber elects a scheme where the game is decided on who hits more threes...ridiculous. Granted, those guards are not the best passers, but there is clearly no directive from the coaching staff to get the ball down low.


nah, you got the wrong impression of weber. he's a actually a really good x/o's guy who himself was not great at recruiting, thus the lull after bill self's holdovers left. his staff has done much better recruiting, in particular, jerrance howard.
weber just over-coaches and his motion offense is extremely stale. he coaches the same way regardless of the talent and likes to micro-manage everything.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#30 » by ManualRam » Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:01 am

no love for leonard outplaying sacre?
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#31 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Dec 4, 2011 3:15 am

I guess I'll need to DVR a game with him. I hadn't even been really aware of him as a prospect but from a statisstical standpoint he is certainly doing well this year.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#32 » by peachbucket » Sun Dec 4, 2011 6:07 am

21
ManualRam wrote:no love for leonard outplaying sacre?


Ok, I guess a little love is in order...

vs Gonzaga
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Meyers Leonard, C 24 9-11 0-0 3-4 2 6 1 0 1 0 4 21

Great game today by Leonard against Robert Sacre, a 7 ft 260 lb NBA prospect. Was most impressed with the 0 turnovers in this game as Leonard continued to show his great hands, solid passing and decision making, and feathery touch as he hit a few 12 foot jumpers and went 3 for 4 from the line. Would still like to see him crash the offensive glass a bit more and block a few more shots...again the passiveness in that department seems to have more to do with lack of lower body strength and fear of getting into foul trouble and not a lack of effortl.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#33 » by ManualRam » Sun Dec 4, 2011 4:11 pm

yeah sacre's one of he best C's in college basketball. he's a physical, legit 7 footer and meyers clearly outplayed him. that showed he could produce against players his own size.
im not worried about the 1 shot block. he couldnt leave sacre to help out on the weak side which is usually how blocks occur. he's done a fine job blocking shots all yr.

people will start paying attention sooner than later. this kid's made major strides in his game and his potential is immense.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#34 » by Kirsten19 » Wed Dec 7, 2011 9:51 am

Will declare in 2013, not summer 2012
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#35 » by ManualRam » Wed Dec 7, 2011 4:33 pm

Kirsten19 wrote:Will declare in 2013, not summer 2012

and this is based on what? his name not being on 2012 mocks?
imo, he's easily the 2nd best C prospect in college. he's not as raw as people think. he's got a huge frame which he's already added a good 20 lbs to. he's athletic and he's skilled.
just the other day vs gonzaga he pulled off some moves in the post that you just dont see from kids his age anymore. i already knew he had an ability to turn over his left shoulder for jump hooks, but that game he also pulled off a left hand hook across the lane, a KG shoulder fake turnaround jumper over his left shoulder and a dream shake turnaround fadeaway over his right shoulder over sacre to help ice the game.
the kid is improving very rapidly.
if he keeps playing at this level there's no reason why he should come back other than him wanting to accomplish something team-wise at U of I.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#36 » by RipCity71252 » Wed Dec 7, 2011 10:25 pm

He definitely needs to get stronger and his defense needs work. His fundamentals are fine and he moves well, it's the positioning that needs work, especially on pick and rolls. He routinely gets out of position were he's just over aggressive on his hedges.

His weaknesses are normal for a big his age though so there isn't a whole lot to be worried about with Leonard as prospect. He has the tools to be an all-star in the NBA, but even if he doesn't get there I don't see how he doesn't become at least a modest contributor. He's pretty smart, plays with fire, huge and athletic, he can pass, shows a smooth post game (the space he created with that turnaround J late against the Zags was very impressive), and a jumper. There's just too much there for him to not succeed on some level.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#37 » by peachbucket » Wed Dec 7, 2011 11:52 pm

ManualRam wrote:
Kirsten19 wrote:Will declare in 2013, not summer 2012

and this is based on what? his name not being on 2012 mocks?
imo, he's easily the 2nd best C prospect in college. he's not as raw as people think. he's got a huge frame which he's already added a good 20 lbs to. he's athletic and he's skilled.
just the other day vs gonzaga he pulled off some moves in the post that you just dont see from kids his age anymore. i already knew he had an ability to turn over his left shoulder for jump hooks, but that game he also pulled off a left hand hook across the lane, a KG shoulder fake turnaround jumper over his left shoulder and a dream shake turnaround fadeaway over his right shoulder over sacre to help ice the game.
the kid is improving very rapidly.
if he keeps playing at this level there's no reason why he should come back other than him wanting to accomplish something team-wise at U of I.


The dream shake was really impressive...just a move that you don't see players his size capable of making. I think professional level coaching and training will greatly expedite his development and he should be able to get 10-15 minutes a game in the NBA on a mediocre team next year. If he ends up being projected in the top half of the lottery, which I'm fairly certain he will after workouts and measurement, her will most likely come out this year.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#38 » by Kirsten19 » Thu Dec 8, 2011 1:18 am

But if he declares for 2013 draft, he'll be a top 3 pick most likely.

So u guys think he has a chance of being a top 8 pick this year if things continue??
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#39 » by harithak47 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:35 am

He's an incredibly improves player but I hate his attitude.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#40 » by ManualRam » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:32 am

harithak47 wrote:He's an incredibly improves player but I hate his attitude.

he's kinda goofy in a dwight kinda way, but i dont see anything wrong with his attitude. he's unselfish and he's a competitive.
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