Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012?

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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#81 » by Johnlac1 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:45 pm

I've watched Leonard about four or five games this year. While he has certain good physical tools, it would be better for Leonard if he stayed in school another year or two. He has nice but not great athleticism. For whatever negative things you want to say about Byron Mullens, much of them deserved, he is faster, quicker, and more fluid than Leonard. Watching Mullens with the Bobcats, he has made a number of athletic plays that were extremely athletic. I'm still waiting for Leonard to show me an athletic offensive move that stuns me. His post moves are really slow and robotic. His teammates do a poor job of getting him the ball, but when he does get it, he's does not resemble a polished post player. He lacks upper body strength and has the ball taken away from him by guards a foot shorter. On defense he lets a lot of small guards blow by him without attempting to block their shots. His jump shot does not look real good. Mullens, while having a poor post game, has a much better-looking jump shot. In short, Leonard has a ways to go. If he takes the money and goes pro next year, he'll get eaten up and ride the pines. He has the potential to be a solid NBA center, but that looks like two or three years of hard work down the road.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#82 » by DarkoNeedsAfro » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:36 pm

I have watched just about all of the U of I's games this year...or at least most of them before I have to turn the channel in disgust. Leonard is consistently inconsistent. There are times in which I see a future NBA all star, and times I see a guy calling Jereme Richmond for a pickup game in 5 years (ok...maybe that's a stretch).

Leonard is super athletic. That's been on display since his days in high school jumping over players in games and winning the state slam dunk contest. The problem I see is that he is not strong enough to play against men anytime soon. As I watch Illinois games Leonard always stands out. He's usually 4 to 5 inches taller than anyone else on the floor. But yet the numbers don't always demonstrate that inherent advantage. Even worse when he plays against opponents more similar to what he''' face at the next level he struglles. 3 rebounds vs. Indiana, 6 vs. Michigan State(with Green a non-factor), and 5 vs. Ohio State. He's 7'1" and can jump out of the gym...and falls flat against grown men. You also can look at his 10 games of 4+ fouls and wonder how he'll do when he doesn't have a physical advantage over his opponents.
He also does spend way too much time outside. His job is to screen and move. His six 3 point shots
over the Illini losing streak shows how bad their offense has been, and how bad Leonard is at deciding what a good shot is. He tries to do too much on the perimeter when he should be rolling to the hoop everytime.

That all being said he has potential. A lot of it. I would love for him to stay at Illinois, but I don't see it happening. How high he goes will depend a lot upon how long a team wants to wait. I don't think he has shown the ability to physically play with NBA level talent yet. With the talent and potential in this draft I see his draft slot as being very volatile. What might hurt him more than anything is The Fighting Illini fighting their best to secure an NIT bid. No NCAA tourney will mean a lot less exposure.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#83 » by Eoghan » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:44 am

Leonard's teammates do a craptacular job of getting him the ball. I watched the game against Purdue, quite possibly the worst post entry passing I've ever seen.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#84 » by Superiorblogman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:03 am

I am open-minded and call it like it is. If this dude ends up in the lotto he is being overrated. For him even to be in the running shows this draft is being overblown. Furthermore,if you are talking top 5 it needs to be a guy that would make any team better. This guy needs a team that is desperate for anything that resembles a Center to see any more than 12 minutes a game next season. On the other hand, a guy like Drummond who rebounds better and blocks shots better and will be able to finish can play 20-25 minutes next year, and the same goes for Davis, and Robinson can rebound right now in the NBA, and if you see what Brooks is doing for the Nets you have to think Lamb could contribute next year, and we have not even got into guys like Rivers who could be a Jamal Crawford spark plug for a team right now. Leonard is not a top 5 pick at all. Thabeet is making $5 million this year for being tall. Teams are not going to continue to repeat that type of stuff. No-one is going to pay him top 5 draft status for being tall. He does nothing else bigs do well enough.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#85 » by ManualRam » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:37 am

BrotherDave wrote:Leonard's teammates do a craptacular job of getting him the ball. I watched the game against Purdue, quite possibly the worst post entry passing I've ever seen.

yeah it's a huge problem, not for just the team, but across the board in college basketball. guards just arent used to playing with back to the basket bigs.
illinois' problem is magnified because they DO have a back to the basket big and no PG. also, because theyre such a poor 3 pt shooting team, the spacing isnt there since defenders can just sag off the shooters or even the entry passer to help dig in on leonard. opponents are fronting the post, making the entry pass even more difficult. the only player who can make a high low feed when leonard is fronted is tyler griffey and he's in and out of the rotation.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#86 » by ManualRam » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:41 am

Superiorblogman wrote:I am open-minded and call it like it is. If this dude ends up in the lotto he is being overrated. For him even to be in the running shows this draft is being overblown. Furthermore,if you are talking top 5 it needs to be a guy that would make any team better. This guy needs a team that is desperate for anything that resembles a Center to see any more than 12 minutes a game next season. On the other hand, a guy like Drummond who rebounds better and blocks shots better and will be able to finish can play 20-25 minutes next year, and the same goes for Davis, and Robinson can rebound right now in the NBA, and if you see what Brooks is doing for the Nets you have to think Lamb could contribute next year, and we have not even got into guys like Rivers who could be a Jamal Crawford spark plug for a team right now. Leonard is not a top 5 pick at all. Thabeet is making $5 million this year for being tall. Teams are not going to continue to repeat that type of stuff. No-one is going to pay him top 5 draft status for being tall. He does nothing else bigs do well enough.


drummond gets more PT his rookie yr over leonard based on what?
that .15 more rebound per minute? that .15 more reb per minute means that one player can rebound and the other cannot? please. if drummond leaves after this yr and gets developmental minutes, i guarantee he'll be looking more like kwame than rookie amare/dwight.
kid has a terrible feel for his position and currently has no translatable skill.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#87 » by Superiorblogman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:24 am

ManualRam wrote:
Superiorblogman wrote:I am open-minded and call it like it is. If this dude ends up in the lotto he is being overrated. For him even to be in the running shows this draft is being overblown. Furthermore,if you are talking top 5 it needs to be a guy that would make any team better. This guy needs a team that is desperate for anything that resembles a Center to see any more than 12 minutes a game next season. On the other hand, a guy like Drummond who rebounds better and blocks shots better and will be able to finish can play 20-25 minutes next year, and the same goes for Davis, and Robinson can rebound right now in the NBA, and if you see what Brooks is doing for the Nets you have to think Lamb could contribute next year, and we have not even got into guys like Rivers who could be a Jamal Crawford spark plug for a team right now. Leonard is not a top 5 pick at all. Thabeet is making $5 million this year for being tall. Teams are not going to continue to repeat that type of stuff. No-one is going to pay him top 5 draft status for being tall. He does nothing else bigs do well enough.


drummond gets more PT his rookie yr over leonard based on what?
that .15 more rebound per minute? that .15 more reb per minute means that one player can rebound and the other cannot? please. if drummond leaves after this yr and gets developmental minutes, i guarantee he'll be looking more like kwame than rookie amare/dwight.
kid has a terrible feel for his position and currently has no translatable skill.


Look at Kwame's career stats and they look a lot like De-Andre Jordan's minus the blocks, but that is besides the point. The point is Drummond does more things now that translate to the NBA than Leonard. Being 7 ft alone does not translate. He does nothing else that bigs need to do better. Dude is softer than Brook Lopez ever was and is not putting up Lopez type numbers and you see where Lopez dropped to 7ft tall and all? Dude is not a top 5 pick by any stretch of the imagination. Late lottery is even a stretch. Mid to late 1st rounder when it is all said and done.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#88 » by peachbucket » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:26 am

Superiorblogman wrote:I am open-minded and call it like it is. If this dude ends up in the lotto he is being overrated. For him even to be in the running shows this draft is being overblown. Furthermore,if you are talking top 5 it needs to be a guy that would make any team better. This guy needs a team that is desperate for anything that resembles a Center to see any more than 12 minutes a game next season. On the other hand, a guy like Drummond who rebounds better and blocks shots better and will be able to finish can play 20-25 minutes next year, and the same goes for Davis, and Robinson can rebound right now in the NBA, and if you see what Brooks is doing for the Nets you have to think Lamb could contribute next year, and we have not even got into guys like Rivers who could be a Jamal Crawford spark plug for a team right now. Leonard is not a top 5 pick at all. Thabeet is making $5 million this year for being tall. Teams are not going to continue to repeat that type of stuff. No-one is going to pay him top 5 draft status for being tall. He does nothing else bigs do well enough.


Smart GM's ini the upper lottery do not draft players who can most help them 'next' year at the expense of long term potential...otherwise, Okafur would have been taken over Howard.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#89 » by ManualRam » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:12 am

Superiorblogman wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
Superiorblogman wrote:I am open-minded and call it like it is. If this dude ends up in the lotto he is being overrated. For him even to be in the running shows this draft is being overblown. Furthermore,if you are talking top 5 it needs to be a guy that would make any team better. This guy needs a team that is desperate for anything that resembles a Center to see any more than 12 minutes a game next season. On the other hand, a guy like Drummond who rebounds better and blocks shots better and will be able to finish can play 20-25 minutes next year, and the same goes for Davis, and Robinson can rebound right now in the NBA, and if you see what Brooks is doing for the Nets you have to think Lamb could contribute next year, and we have not even got into guys like Rivers who could be a Jamal Crawford spark plug for a team right now. Leonard is not a top 5 pick at all. Thabeet is making $5 million this year for being tall. Teams are not going to continue to repeat that type of stuff. No-one is going to pay him top 5 draft status for being tall. He does nothing else bigs do well enough.


drummond gets more PT his rookie yr over leonard based on what?
that .15 more rebound per minute? that .15 more reb per minute means that one player can rebound and the other cannot? please. if drummond leaves after this yr and gets developmental minutes, i guarantee he'll be looking more like kwame than rookie amare/dwight.
kid has a terrible feel for his position and currently has no translatable skill.


Look at Kwame's career stats and they look a lot like De-Andre Jordan's minus the blocks, but that is besides the point. The point is Drummond does more things now that translate to the NBA than Leonard. Being 7 ft alone does not translate. He does nothing else that bigs need to do better. Dude is softer than Brook Lopez ever was and is not putting up Lopez type numbers and you see where Lopez dropped to 7ft tall and all? Dude is not a top 5 pick by any stretch of the imagination. Late lottery is even a stretch. Mid to late 1st rounder when it is all said and done.


what does drummond do? what are his translatable skills? he's a big and athletic guy who's good at being athletic..but not good at being big. his technique sucks across the board. again, he doesnt box out. he doesnt fight for position. he doesnt know how to make himself available for touches. he doesnt even have rudimentary footwork. he doesnt have a jump hook. he has poor touch in the paint. that is not gonna fly at the next level. drummond has no idea how to play to contact. in fact he AVOIDS contact, yet you wanna call meyers soft? at least leonard consistently fights for position on both ends of the floor.

in a C starved draft, leonard is a legit athletic C prospect with prototype size and real skill. you cant tell me those qualities are common and arent valued. he'll be lotto easily.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#90 » by Jazzfan12 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:32 pm

Illinois is down by 28 to a terrible Nebraska team and Leonard has been outscored by Ubel with eight minutes to go.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#91 » by Johnlac1 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:55 pm

I'm watching this godawful exhibition of poor basketball by Illinois, and while Leonard is more potential than good player, I'd have to blame the coach for this fiasco. I actually think Illinois would be a lot better off using a passing offense utilizing Leonard at the high post. I''m not an Illinois fan, but this is painful to watch. Leonard can't get open, and when he does get open for a second or two, the other Illinois players are almost completely unable to get the ball to him. When he finally does get, he's frequently out of position to do anything. After seeing the last four Illinois games, their Leonard-focused offense looks awful. They waste most of the shot clock trying to force it in. They'd be better off using Meyers to set screens and roll to the basket. They just look horrible on offense. I will say Leonard finally showed me a good move with a nice turnaround jump shot from fifteen feet when the game was still in question. At any rate, jusing him on the high post has to better than what they're doing now.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#92 » by Jazzfan12 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:07 am

Meyers Leonard crying on the bench:

http://twitpic.com/8lpuoe

Might be a good sign (show that he cares about winning) or bad or he's just young.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#93 » by Eoghan » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:09 am

I'd be crying too if my coach was Bruce Weber.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#94 » by ManualRam » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:15 am

Johnlac1 wrote:I'm watching this godawful exhibition of poor basketball by Illinois, and while Leonard is more potential than good player, I'd have to blame the coach for this fiasco. I actually think Illinois would be a lot better off using a passing offense utilizing Leonard at the high post. I''m not an Illinois fan, but this is painful to watch. Leonard can't get open, and when he does get open for a second or two, the other Illinois players are almost completely unable to get the ball to him. When he finally does get, he's frequently out of position to do anything. After seeing the last four Illinois games, their Leonard-focused offense looks awful. They waste most of the shot clock trying to force it in. They'd be better off using Meyers to set screens and roll to the basket. They just look horrible on offense. I will say Leonard finally showed me a good move with a nice turnaround jump shot from fifteen feet when the game was still in question. At any rate, jusing him on the high post has to better than what they're doing now.


i really dont know what kind of offense they could run. they have no point guard and their perimeter players either cant shoot, are poor decision makers or both. inside/out SHOULD be the better plan because leonard draws doubles and gets the ball out well, which would allow them to attack teh weakside, but the perimeter players dont move the ball quick enough and cant shoot well enough to take advantage of the scrambling defenses. weakside defenses shade towards the middle and even the entry passers are being dared to shoot the ball while their defender sits in leonard's lap.
just look at their best perimeter player. brandon paul is a slasher, but a reluctant one. he's not a good shooter and he's an awful decision maker. yet because they lack a point guard he has to handle the ball so much.

one things for sure though, that's the nail in the coffin for bruce weber. hopefully they at least keep his assistants to recruit.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#95 » by RipCity71252 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:43 pm

Draft Express has Portland getting Leonard at 14 currently. I've admittedly only watched a couple Illinois games, but came away pretty impressed.

Is he a good fit with Aldridge?

Portland needs help inside next year with Camby gone unless he's willing to resign on the cheap. He's still productive though so that isn't likely imo. Kurt Thomas is showing his age after a good start to the season and Craig Smith is your 5th big on most teams.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#96 » by ManualRam » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:18 pm

RipCity71252 wrote:Draft Express has Portland getting Leonard at 14 currently. I've admittedly only watched a couple Illinois games, but came away pretty impressed.

Is he a good fit with Aldridge?

Portland needs help inside next year with Camby gone unless he's willing to resign on the cheap. He's still productive though so that isn't likely imo. Kurt Thomas is showing his age after a good start to the season and Craig Smith is your 5th big on most teams.


not sure it'd be the greatest fit for leonard to reach his potential, but he does have the basic offensive skills to function with LA offensively since he can shoot and pass. leonard likes to post though. that's where he does the majority of his work, but LA is already a good post player. offensively, there'd be some redundancy, but since aldridge is the established player, that'd reduce leonard to being an opportunist who finds holes in the d and plays off of LA, which he has no experience doing.

it also depends how he develops defensively. right now his defensive instincts are not great, but he moves well laterally and can block shots off his length and athleticism alone. what i think he can do on the offensive end in time (he'll need time to further develop) is interchange with LA, posting or playing high post. if he develops they'd be able to play some high/low as well. the good thing about leonard is that because of his basic skills, he can function next to just about any type of big, but functioning and flourishing are 2 different things. solid fit for the blazers considering they need a center, but not the greatest fit for leonard to reach his potential.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#97 » by Kirsten19 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:26 pm

I think he'll stay in college, and won't declare.

That is way better for him. He isn't ready for NBA yet
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#98 » by ManualRam » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:30 pm

Kirsten19 wrote:I think he'll stay in college, and won't declare.

That is way better for him. He isn't ready for NBA yet

you keep saying this but offer no reasoning.
there are more reasons for meyers to go than stay.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#99 » by Jazzfan12 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:58 am

Leonard seems pretty inactive on defense and pretty soft in general AND his fundamentals seem to suck (no big man should hold the ball as low as he does and he holds it for way too long when he doesn't have an easy basket it seems), but he seems good. He's big and athletic and that can allow him to score.
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Re: Meyers Leonard Watch....Top 5 bound in 2012? 

Post#100 » by Kirsten19 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:45 am

I think Meyers Leonard can go as high as 7th in this draft.

I m sure the Pistons will be interested in him. They need size and athleticism inside, since Monroe lacks length (yes, he is nearly 7ft but not long) and is rather unathletic

But if they're reaching, 6'11" John Henson who is more NBA ready mentally, even more ahtletic and longer, has supreme defensive game......will be an option for the pistons too

But what Leonard worries me most is not his "soft" game n averaging rebounding ability......its his mental toughness and motor.

Another year in college wont hurt.

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