RealGM

Yes, Dion is a little shorter but I watched this guy and he looks better than Beal. So why is Beal being held higher in regard? Dion looks like an actual NBA star.

Im pretty high on both, but I like Beal better. Beal is a better shooter, more of a team player, has better size, and didnt play in a zone in college. Better rebounder and younger too. He looks more of the part of a starting SG.

Beal has a long release on his shot, I don't think it will be as effective in the NBA where players get up faster to block your shot. He reminds me of Jimmer Fredette. I think people will regret picking Beal.

Jimmer isnt struggling because he cant get his shot off. its everything else. Beal is much more of a complete player. They arent even close

kd35sneighbor wrote:Beal has a long release on his shot, I don't think it will be as effective in the NBA where players get up faster to block your shot. He reminds me of Jimmer Fredette. I think people will regret picking Beal.

i dont know what beal has done to separate himself from the other SG prospects. maybe it's because he's a safe pick who's just solid across the board.
what stand out qualities does he have? spot up shooting? i'll give him that. i think he'll be exceptional shooting from static positions. rebounding for a guard? thats great, but it isnt a characteristic i look for in a guard. that's more of a plus. how often do you hear teams say they need more rebounding from their 2 guard?

there are a ton of questions that i have about beal that arent answered in scouting report blurbs or discussions about him:

how good is his ability off the bounce, whether creating his own shot or slashing and finishing?
how good is his handle in 1 on 1 situations?
is he a shifty enough player to be a good slasher or 1 on 1 player? is he explosive enough vertically or in terms of first step (dont quote combine numbers)?
laterally, is he quick enough to be an above average defender?
will he need ball screens to get to where he needs to go on the court?
is he quick enough to create separation while running around screens?
does he have the type of release to shoot accurately while off-balance, on the move without getting his legs completely under him?

as for waiters, he has a bunch of holes in his game (namely his shooting) and his size isnt great, but i think he can be the best slasher, finisher and playmaker with the best combo guard ability out of this group of 2's.

From a thread yesterday, http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1187916

kd35sneighbor wrote:

mcfly1204 wrote:

kd35sneighbor wrote:A 6-2 guy (Waiters) to pair with Irving? No thanks.

6' 4" in shoes with a 6' 7" wingspan, you are selling him a bit short. Cleveland does not strike me as a team that would make a promise to someone, especially that high.

You should focus on what his height is without shoes. It is 6-2.5. Think about that for a sec. He is shorter than Beal by almost an inch, and Beal is already short as is. He will get owned by other shooting guards, period.

At 6-2.5 he is shorter than Sam Cassell. Just think about Cassell having to guard other shooting guards. Cleveland will not draft this guy, he simply does not fit.

You really changed your tune on Waiters in the last 24 hours.

Comparing their freshman seasons (which is really all you can go by) and Beal was clearly the more impressive player.

Question why are people falling in love with this height without shoes measure, when a player will never play in a game without shoes and every common metric for today's current nba player is their height with shoes?

HeyIt'sMe wrote:Comparing their freshman seasons (which is really all you can go by)

no, its not.
compare their player attributes.

joeysicko wrote:Question why are people falling in love with this height without shoes measure, when a player will never play in a game without shoes and every common metric for today's current nba player is their height with shoes?

it's just a means of standardizing height measurements to get an idea of how tall they truly are.

mayo and beal measured out the same height without shoes. beal measured taller with shoes. is beal taller?

And as to the question I think it depends on team needs. Neal is a safer bet with a more established skill set while waiters is more based on potential but he already has better handle and creative abilities than beal. Waiters projects to take more of the ball handling load way from pg while beal will probably initially score more

ManualRam wrote:

joeysicko wrote:Question why are people falling in love with this height without shoes measure, when a player will never play in a game without shoes and every common metric for today's current nba player is their height with shoes?

it's just a means of standardizing height measurements to get an idea of how tall they truly are.

mayo and beal measured out the same height without shoes. beal measured taller with shoes. is beal taller?

But how important is a quarter of an inch anyway? Neither player will dominate bc of their height and I don't think with will be at a great disadvantage bc of it either. The real question gms willbe asking is whether waiters playing zone has made him a defensive liability, is beal too deferential seeing his college performance, is waiters j reliable enough, can beal handle enough to create his own shot, etc

joeysicko wrote:

ManualRam wrote:

joeysicko wrote:Question why are people falling in love with this height without shoes measure, when a player will never play in a game without shoes and every common metric for today's current nba player is their height with shoes?

it's just a means of standardizing height measurements to get an idea of how tall they truly are.

mayo and beal measured out the same height without shoes. beal measured taller with shoes. is beal taller?

But how important is a quarter of an inch anyway?

not much at all, but w/out shoes is still a more accurate way of comparing height among players.

as far as waiters' height goes i dont think it'll be a huge disadvantage. he's a slasher and he'll still have the strength, athleticism and creativity to finish. where his height would come into play is in shot contests on both ends of the floor. will he be able to contest shots effectively and will his shots from the outside be effected more by bigger guards?

kd35sneighbor wrote:Yes, Dion is a little shorter but I watched this guy and he looks better than Beal. So why is Beal being held higher in regard? Dion looks like an actual NBA star.

Hollinger's player rater, released yesterday, rated Waiters quite a bit higher than Beal.

joeysicko wrote:

ManualRam wrote:

joeysicko wrote:Question why are people falling in love with this height without shoes measure, when a player will never play in a game without shoes and every common metric for today's current nba player is their height with shoes?

it's just a means of standardizing height measurements to get an idea of how tall they truly are.

mayo and beal measured out the same height without shoes. beal measured taller with shoes. is beal taller?

But how important is a quarter of an inch anyway? Neither player will dominate bc of their height and I don't think with will be at a great disadvantage bc of it either. The real question gms willbe asking is whether waiters playing zone has made him a defensive liability, is beal too deferential seeing his college performance, is waiters j reliable enough, can beal handle enough to create his own shot, etc

The big difference is their standing reach, not their height. Beal has no neck and a longer wingspan. Beal's standing reach is 8'4". Waiters' is 8'2". 2 inches is significant. Especially when Beal himself is at the lower end of the acceptable height for SG. Waiters is definitely undersized.

Beal is about the same size as Rodney Stuckey and Brandon Roy. Waiters is built like Avery Bradley and Kyrie Irving.

mcfly1204 wrote:You really changed your tune on Waiters in the last 24 hours.

Why hasn't anyone addressed this ownage yet? I thought the same thing when I read the OP.

mcfly1204 wrote:From a thread yesterday, http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1187916




You really changed your tune on Waiters in the last 24 hours.

I never said anything about how Dion sucks. I was saying he's a bad fit for Cleveland because of how short he is. So... you got nothing there. This really made me scratch my head.

it's just a means of standardizing height measurements to get an idea of how tall they truly are.

mayo and beal measured out the same height without shoes. beal measured taller with shoes. is beal taller?[/quote]

But how important is a quarter of an inch anyway? Neither player will dominate bc of their height and I don't think with will be at a great disadvantage bc of it either. The real question gms willbe asking is whether waiters playing zone has made him a defensive liability, is beal too deferential seeing his college performance, is waiters j reliable enough, can beal handle enough to create his own shot, etc[/quote]
The big difference is their standing reach, not their height. Beal has no neck and a longer wingspan. Beal's standing reach is 8'4". Waiters' is 8'2". 2 inches is significant. Especially when Beal himself is at the lower end of the acceptable height for SG. Waiters is definitely undersized.

Beal is about the same size as Rodney Stuckey and Brandon Roy. Waiters is built like Avery Bradley and Kyrie Irving.[/quote]

I feel you with all the metrics and the 2 inch standing reach disadvantage but like dennis green said, waiters is who we think he is. None of this is surprising and the reach advatage would not be the reason I took beal over waiters at all. If I were a gm this may play a small role in my decision but for that to be emphasized is ridiculous. In addition bradley is 180, irving 190, waiters 220 they are hardly comparable on either end.