Walter Tavares

[Ruzious]

He is very comparable to Rudy Gobert, drafted last year by the Utah Jazz.
He's even bigger than Gobert, but less explosiveness/motor.

I think he's physically ready to produce good stats in short playing time in NBA, as Gobert did this year with the Jazz.

Good call, and I like Gobert better for those reasons and the fact that he's still younger. Plus, he put some great numbers in the 8 games he played in the D League.

[Onus]

He is very comparable to Rudy Gobert, drafted last year by the Utah Jazz.
He's even bigger than Gobert, but less explosiveness/motor.

I think he's physically ready to produce good stats in short playing time in NBA, as Gobert did this year with the Jazz.

Good call, and I like Gobert better for those reasons and the fact that he's still younger. Plus, he put some great numbers in the 8 games he played in the D League.

I don't think Gobert is all that much more explosive than Tavares. Gobert isn't very explosive to begin with. He just has more experience and is only 3 months younger than Tavares.

The 2 have pretty much the same measurables but Tavares is 30lbs heavier. Tavares is avg 6 and 6 (20 min) in the ACB vs Gobert's 8 and 5 (22min) last year in the french league. Gobert's fg% was significantly in his favor but I think that goes to his experience. I think they'll be similar players but Tavares' weight makes me lean towards him.

[abark]

Wow, on DX it says that he was discovered at age 17 while working in his mother's convenience store on a small island off of Senegal. He had never picked up a basketball. 4 years later...

[Tave]

He is very comparable to Rudy Gobert, drafted last year by the Utah Jazz.
He's even bigger than Gobert, but less explosiveness/motor.

I think he's physically ready to produce good stats in short playing time in NBA, as Gobert did this year with the Jazz.

Haha, before I read any responses, I was about to say he looks like a less-skilled, less-athletic version of Rudy Gobert.

I'm not seeing it with Tavares, dude just doesn't move like a pro athlete. I guess it's hard to tell with big guys though, they can develop power/speed so fast as their weight catches up to their height.

[coutournant]

He is very comparable to Rudy Gobert, drafted last year by the Utah Jazz.
He's even bigger than Gobert, but less explosiveness/motor.

I think he's physically ready to produce good stats in short playing time in NBA, as Gobert did this year with the Jazz.

Good call, and I like Gobert better for those reasons and the fact that he's still younger. Plus, he put some great numbers in the 8 games he played in the D League.

I don't think Gobert is all that much more explosive than Tavares. Gobert isn't very explosive to begin with. He just has more experience and is only 3 months younger than Tavares.

The 2 have pretty much the same measurables but Tavares is 30lbs heavier. Tavares is avg 6 and 6 (20 min) in the ACB vs Gobert's 8 and 5 (22min) last year in the french league. Gobert's fg% was significantly in his favor but I think that goes to his experience. I think they'll be similar players but Tavares' weight makes me lean towards him.

Gobert is very explosive for his size. Don't trust his predraft athletic measurements, he was injured and got foot surgery after Orlando Summer League .
Look at what he has done with the Jazz in his short playing time, running the fast-breaks and always going hard to the rim or for blocking shots on defense.
Tavares is not as athletic as him, he hasn't the same motor, but he's stronger (Gobert improved his body last year though).

[LloydFree]

I don't understand how he's not being talked about as a lottery pick. This dude looks like a monster


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He is not being talked about as a lottery pick because he is currently a 'stiff'.
The guy runs and moves like Calvin Booth. He won't get off the bench in the NBA.

[Onus]

I don't understand how he's not being talked about as a lottery pick. This dude looks like a monster


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He is not being tied about as a lottery pick because he is currently a 'stiff'.
The guy runs and moves like Calvin Booth. He won't get off the bench in the NBA.

He runs awkwardly, granted, but he can move his feet laterally pretty well atleast better than Hibbert can. At some point in his career he'll be a rim protector and a decent to good rebounder. i think that's more valuable than a wing that won't be a great perimeter defender, is a mediocre shooter, and won't really be able to create shots for himself (Harris and Young).

[LloydFree]

I don't understand how he's not being talked about as a lottery pick. This dude looks like a monster


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

He is not being tied about as a lottery pick because he is currently a 'stiff'.
The guy runs and moves like Calvin Booth. He won't get off the bench in the NBA.

He runs awkwardly, granted, but he can move his feet laterally pretty well atleast better than Hibbert can. At some point in his career he'll be a rim protector and a decent to good rebounder. i think that's more valuable than a wing that won't be a great perimeter defender, is a mediocre shooter, and won't really be able to create shots for himself (Harris and Young).

There have been many wings in the NBA that couldn't create their own shots, that have gone on to become All-stars (Doug Collins, Rip Hamilton, etc). A Center that moves like Calvin Booth, is a 12th man, and nothing more than 6 more fouls for the coach to use. If you think Tavers is a better prospect than James Young, I don't know if this conversation is worth continuing.

[Marcus]

He runs awkwardly, granted, but he can move his feet laterally pretty well atleast better than Hibbert can. At some point in his career he'll be a rim protector and a decent to good rebounder. i think that's more valuable than a wing that won't be a great perimeter defender, is a mediocre shooter, and won't really be able to create shots for himself (Harris and Young).

At 22 POSSIBLY coming over this year how many minutes do you give him per game?

How long are you giving him as a project to develop into this "rim protector and decent to good rebounder" you're projecting for him?

Also whats make you think two kids under 20 with years of understanding under their basketball belts WON'T be able to develop into AT LEAST decent to good perimeter defenders, better shooters, and better ball-handler/shot creators given the time they should see and ready NBA skillsets?

But you think Tavares WILL meaning guaranteed "at some point in his career" pan out into what you expect despite his limited basketball knowledge/skillset and late development in the game?

[Onus]

He is not being tied about as a lottery pick because he is currently a 'stiff'.
The guy runs and moves like Calvin Booth. He won't get off the bench in the NBA.

He runs awkwardly, granted, but he can move his feet laterally pretty well atleast better than Hibbert can. At some point in his career he'll be a rim protector and a decent to good rebounder. i think that's more valuable than a wing that won't be a great perimeter defender, is a mediocre shooter, and won't really be able to create shots for himself (Harris and Young).

There have been many wings in the NBA that couldn't create their own shots, that have gone on to become All-stars (Doug Collins, Rip Hamilton, etc). A Center that moves like Calvin Booth, is a 12th man, and nothing more than 6 more fouls for the coach to use. If you think Tavers is a better prospect than James Young, I don't know if this conversation is worth continuing.

I'm not old enough to have seen Doug Collins play, but Rip Hamilton is nothing like Harris and Young.

He runs awkwardly, granted, but he can move his feet laterally pretty well atleast better than Hibbert can. At some point in his career he'll be a rim protector and a decent to good rebounder. i think that's more valuable than a wing that won't be a great perimeter defender, is a mediocre shooter, and won't really be able to create shots for himself (Harris and Young).

At 22 POSSIBLY coming over this year how many minutes do you give him per game?

How long are you giving him as a project to develop into this "rim protector and decent to good rebounder" you're projecting for him?

Also whats make you think two kids under 20 with years of understanding under their basketball belts WON'T be able to develop into AT LEAST decent to good perimeter defenders, better shooters, and better ball-handler/shot creators given the time they should see and ready NBA skillsets?

But you think Tavares WILL meaning guaranteed "at some point in his career" pan out into what you expect despite his limited basketball knowledge/skillset and late development in the game?

I'd give Tavares about 3-5 years to develop so he'll be 25-27 when he reaches his prime. He's a project and big men usually take longer to develop. Hell he may not even get many minutes his first year. But the fact he's able to produce and get minutes in the 2nd best league in the ACB in only 4 years of playing basketball, to me means he's got potential.

Becoming a better ball-handler/shot creator isn't really something prospects develop. Either you come into the league with that skill and hone it or you never really have it. Has there ever really been a prospect that has developed into a better shot creator without having the skill coming in? I just see their ceiling's at best as role players, whereas Tavares can be a rim protector role player, like Hibbert. I'll take the big rim protector role player over a wing role player everyday. Is it a guarantee that Tavares gets there, no. But there's no guarantee that Harris or Young make that development either.

[Marcus]

I'd give Tavares about 3-5 years to develop so he'll be 25-27 when he reaches his prime. He's a project and big men usually take longer to develop. Hell he may not even get many minutes his first year. But the fact he's able to produce and get minutes in the 2nd best league in the ACB in only 4 years of playing basketball, to me means he's got potential.

Becoming a better ball-handler/shot creator isn't really something prospects develop. Either you come into the league with that skill and hone it or you never really have it. Has there ever really been a prospect that has developed into a better shot creator without having the skill coming in? I just see their ceiling's at best as role players, whereas Tavares can be a rim protector role player, like Hibbert. I'll take the big rim protector role player over a wing role player everyday. Is it a guarantee that Tavares gets there, no. But there's no guarantee that Harris or Young make that development either.

Potential in Tavares given the physical tools is there, won't deny that. Just don't see taking a lottery chance on him. But we'll see what happens come the 26th.

As far as developing into a better ball handler/shot creator,

KD, Westbrook, PG even Bron and Harden to a smaller extent have all improved in that regard since coming into the league.

JJ Redick on a lower scale (usage and talent wise) has also.

Even in this draft kids like Wiggins, Gordon, Jeremi Grant will have to in order to reach their potential. Point is it can/does happen.

Not saying Young/Harris will reach those levels. But its not that far out of the spectrum for them to improve. They'll more than likely be catch and shoot guys until teams take that away from them, which would leave them with little choice but to improve other phases of their game.

[Onus]

Potential in Tavares given the physical tools is there, won't deny that. Just don't see taking a lottery chance on him. But we'll see what happens come the 26th.

As far as developing into a better ball handler/shot creator,

KD, Westbrook, PG even Bron and Harden to a smaller extent have all improved in that regard since coming into the league.

JJ Redick on a lower scale (usage and talent wise) has also.

Even in this draft kids like Wiggins, Gordon, Jeremi Grant will have to in order to reach their potential. Point is it can/does happen.

Not saying Young/Harris will reach those levels. But its not that far out of the spectrum for them to improve. They'll more than likely be catch and shoot guys until teams take that away from them, which would leave them with little choice but to improve other phases of their game.

I'd say Westbrook, Bron and Harden had much higher starting points for handling the ball and creating shots. KD is a freak and can shoot the hell out of the ball. He still struggles to create for himself at the top of the key in isolation or pick and roll, which is why Westbrook does a lot of the handling and decision making. PG struggles with this as well and most of the plays he makes are off the ball in catch and shoot situations cuz he's an exceptional shooter. I don't think PG is in that same tier with the others you mentioned. I don't think he'll ever be able to get there either, because of his lack of ball handling. KD needs to start working in the post more anyway and rely less on handling. So PG and KD both still struggle handling the ball, while Bron, Westbrook, and Haren exceed the standards set forth by Young/Harris. They can move into an adequate stage if given free reign and ample opportunity which I don't think Young and Harris will receive because they're not on the same tier as KD and PG.

[Marcus]

I'd say Westbrook, Bron and Harden had much higher starting points for handling the ball and creating shots. KD is a freak and can shoot the hell out of the ball. He still struggles to create for himself at the top of the key in isolation or pick and roll, which is why Westbrook does a lot of the handling and decision making. PG struggles with this as well and most of the plays he makes are off the ball in catch and shoot situations cuz he's an exceptional shooter. I don't think PG is in that same tier with the others you mentioned. I don't think he'll ever be able to get there either, because of his lack of ball handling. KD needs to start working in the post more anyway and rely less on handling. So PG and KD both still struggle handling the ball, while Bron, Westbrook, and Haren exceed the standards set forth by Young/Harris. They can move into an adequate stage if given free reign and ample opportunity which I don't think Young and Harris will receive because they're not on the same tier as KD and PG.

like i said Young and Harris won't be the players mentioned. they more than likely won't handle the ball that much and won't be in the position to have the offense ran through them. They'll be catch and shoot guys until its taken away which is why i mentioned Redick.

Not saying KD and PG are elite ball handler/shot creators. But they are better than they were when they came in which is what you asked. KD didn't appear to struggle to create for himself or anybody else during that run that Russ was out the lineup.

Westbrook wasn't even considered a guy that could play the position coming in due to ball handling and decision making and i said Bron and Harden to a lesser extent because they've improved upon what they were coming in and added to their arsenal, but omit them if you want because I guess that can fall under honing as opposed to improving since they came in as primary ball-handlers.

On topic - still don't see Tavares as a lottery pick but we'll what happens between now and draft day.

[dolphinatik]

if he gets picked up by a good team he is screwed. if he gets on a team situation like the sixers last year where he will get tons of undeserved minutes then he has a chance to be serviceable. The kid needs time on the court ot figure it out. any prolonged time on the bench and he wont make it.

couple bigs worth tanking for like Townes next year. I could see a team like the Lakers willing to tank one more year and play Tavares huge minutes.

[Onus]

I highly doubt he gets taken in the lottery ... I just think it'll be a mistake

[Novocaine]

What makes Tavares an interesting prospect isn't really who he is, his current strengths and weaknesses, or his potential per se.

It's about his evolution. How fast and steadily he's developed throughout this season. That's why I like him more than mock drafts. It's not an increase in production, it's not about him growing up and becoming bigger than the competition. He's moving faster, better and smarter, making better decisions. It's the kind of stuff Asik -a player with a similar story, although Asik started playing much sooner- also showed. I don't see any reason to believe he's anywhere near a plateau. Especially after he increases his lower body strength. Numbers don't show the full extent of how much better he is today than at the start of the season.

If Tavares was exactly the player he is today after a normal developmental path, then I don't think he'd be worth more than a late first rounder at the very best. But players who show constant, almost exponential, evolution, with no signs of slowing down, are more likely to stay in the same path.