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nickforthreee wrote:

Orlwillbeback wrote:yea the combine probably hurt adams stock more than any other player. That just means he'll be a steal for whever gets him now.

I don't really understand why? We all knew he couldn't jump that shouldn't be a suprise. I think the fact that he slimmed down should have more of an impact than his vert.

not being able to jump is one thing, but he was near the bottom in nearly every test.

nickforthreee wrote:

Orlwillbeback wrote:yea the combine probably hurt adams stock more than any other player. That just means he'll be a steal for whever gets him now.

I don't really understand why? We all knew he couldn't jump that shouldn't be a suprise. I think the fact that he slimmed down should have more of an impact than his vert.

i dont get why a vert is important for a guard, but adams also did poorly on the agility drills.

Adams and Harris probably hurt themselves. I still think he can be an effective player though

SBM wrote:Adams and Harris probably hurt themselves. I still think he can be an effective player though

Yeah, I think Adams and Harris are the top two shooting guards... but both have red flags now.

Golabki wrote:

SBM wrote:Adams and Harris probably hurt themselves. I still think he can be an effective player though

Yeah, I think Adams and Harris are the top two shooting guards... but both have red flags now.

if they get drafted in the 1st rd, it was a good move, if not, they should have stayed in school if for no other reason than getting a diploma.

miltk wrote:
i dont get why a vert is important for a guard, but adams also did poorly on the agility drills.

What you mean you don't know why vert is important for a guard?

A guard drives the lane, he has to be able to get over the top of a defender, a guard shoots off the dribble, he has to be able to shoot over a defender. Vert is an all around indicator of athleticism for the most part. Now some a lot of times vert doesn't translate like OJ Mayo and Derozan to actual basketball stuff like driving the lane or blowing by their man.
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DX has Jordan Adams going to the Heat. I hope that the Heat doesn't draft this dude. This dude is plays basketball like a YMCA player. He can't jump, he can't dribble, he can't shoot off the dribble, he can't blow by anybody, he can't run a pick and roll. He is an inconsistent jumpshooter. I mean he sucks for an NBA player. He got Luke Harangody game as a 6'5 guard.

And people are comparing this guy to James Harden, only thing that they got in common is that they are both African American, 6'5, and bulky body type. James Harden actually had GAME. He was a point guard for Arizona. And he didn't have a 29 inch max vert

Jordan Adams plays like an less athletic more crude Shabazz Muhammad. I wouldn't want this guy drafted by the Heat, I would vomit in my mouth.

There are WNBA players more athletic than Jordan Adams. I bet Candance Parker could beat this dude in a game of 21.

CablexDeadpool wrote:

miltk wrote:
i dont get why a vert is important for a guard, but adams also did poorly on the agility drills.

What you mean you don't know why vert is important for a guard?

A guard drives the lane, he has to be able to get over the top of a defender, a guard shoots off the dribble, he has to be able to shoot over a defender. Vert is an all around indicator of athleticism for the most part. Now some a lot of times vert doesn't translate like OJ Mayo and Derozan to actual basketball stuff like driving the lane or blowing by their man.
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lot's, in fact most i think, of players release their shot IN FRONT of their face...lots like curry which is classic - slightly above his head http://www.nba.com/media/hoop/20130228_SCurry.jpg or chris paul https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... A1iQDw2VQT ,,,and they don't releae off a 36" vert. in other words, by any measure all their shots are "blockable" yet they don't get blocked. but they run through screen and create separation to get off their shots, or players give them space if they have a great drive to the basket. but their vert is not how they shoot off the dribble. and most layups are just that,,,layups, not dunks.

the game is still played under the rim. that's why good players beat good leapers all the time.

miltk wrote:
lot's, in fact most i think, of players release their shot IN FRONT of their face...lots like curry which is classic - slightly above his head http://www.nba.com/media/hoop/20130228_SCurry.jpg or chris paul https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/imag ... A1iQDw2VQT ,,,and they don't releae off a 36" vert. in other words, by any measure all their shots are "blockable" yet they don't get blocked. but they run through screen and create separation to get off their shots, or players give them space if they have a great drive to the basket. but their vert is not how they shoot off the dribble. and most layups are just that,,,layups, not dunks.

the game is still played under the rim. that's why good players beat good leapers all the time.

Those are wide open spot up shots. I am talking about a jumpshot off the dribble or a curl.

All you gotta do is watch players go off the dribble or off a curl into a jumpshot and see how important it is to be able to elevate on a shot. Look at how high Russell Westbrook gets, look at how high Jamal Crawford gets, Bradley Beal gets, Isaiah Thomas, even Kyle Korver gets high into his shot, even Stephen Curry and he shoots the ball from his waist, even JJ Reddick.

Some examples




Their shots are unblockable.

Players that shoot set shots off the dribble like James Harden, Paul Pierce and D Wade have good to great isoball handling and a good pump fake - that's how they create space. It's hard to block somebody when you don't know if they are going to shoot or not. Other players create space by elevating on their shot.

Jordan Adams is a crap athlete, and he shoots a set shot. He is already an inconsistent shooter, he already can't come off of curls and shoot because it takes being a decent athlete to come off a curl and turn around in the air and shoot the ball on balance.

He can't do it consistently. He's strictly a spot up shooter and a cutter.

Which is my point about having a good vert and in the NBA the average is 33 inches. You don't have to be Gerald Green, but if you are a guard and you got a freaking 29 inch vert and we see you play and you can't even elevate on your shot when you come off a curl to avoid getting it swatted, you have a problem.

Good athletes make good basketball players. Crap athletes make crap basketball players and Jordan Adams is a crap athlete and probably would get his shot tossed into the stands unless he's wide open and by himself. I can see D Wade just knocking his shot back into his face.

I knew he wasn't a top athlete, but wow - coming in dead last - slower than Bachynski and other centers. And this is after he lost a lot of weight. Maybe I'm stubborn, but I gotta think there was something physically wrong with him.

Whats more hillarious is that these new age number nerds were saying he should go #1 beasue of his steal rate haha now you see how dumb it is to use any college stats as end all be all on how theyll do in the pros

He got steals because he gambled alot since he was too slow footed too guard anyone not because he was some great athlete which the analytic nerds figured without actually watching him

Jordan Adams (only saying this because he lost weight which proves he's willing to work) should be in the lottery. He would've been the second best prospect if he was this good last year.

CablexDeadpool wrote:Good athletes make good basketball players. Crap athletes make crap basketball players

such flawed logic. athleticism isn't the end all be all when it comes to whether or not someone can actually play the game. its an aide, a tool, a gift in some cases. but IQ and know how goes a lot further which is how guys not only stay around but stay effective once that athleticism leaves them if they ever had it in the first place. Plenty of vets running around in the league that are still effective today without being plus to average athletes and just as many kids that can run and jump with the best of them but get no burn because they have no idea what they're doing or where to be out on the court.

Jordan having a bad vert is a flag to an extent but it isn't the end all be all to say whether or not he can be successful in the league. He'll have to work on being crafty, using footwork, ball fakes, and screens effectively. He already moves fairly well without the ball and that's gonna have to continue moving forward. He's got a few things working against him but its not set in stone that just because he can't jump high that he can't find a way to give solid minutes.

I'm not saying he's gonna be an all-star or even an average player for that matter. I just don't believe that just because a guy's vert isn't great even as a guard that they can't find a way to be effective with good old-fashioned know how on the court.

Marcus wrote:such flawed logic. athleticism isn't the end all be all when it comes to whether or not someone can actually play the game. its an aide, a tool, a gift in some cases. but IQ and know how goes a lot further which is how guys not only stay around but stay effective once that athleticism leaves them if they ever had it in the first place. Plenty of vets running around in the league that are still effective today without being plus to average athletes and just as many kids that can run and jump with the best of them but get no burn because they have no idea what they're doing or where to be out on the court.

Oh please Basketball IQ don't mean crap if you can't move your body.

People overexaggerate how bad of an athlete guys like JJ Reddick and Jimmer Fredette are to prop up an extremely terrible athlete like Jordan Adams.

There are absolutely no athletes of Jordan Adams caliber that are getting minutes. It'll be hard to find one.

Basketball is a run and jump sport, athleticism almost decides whether you play or not. There are tons of guys with an NBA skill level with YMCA athleticism that destroyed the NCAA and the D-League and they don't play in the NBA, they are in Europe somewhere or still in the Dleague, while somebody like Birdman can break through and only thing he is good at his weakside shot blocking and dunking.

Point is, athleticism almost 9 times out of 10, trump mythical basketball IQ that somehow trumps athleticism.

Find me a bad athlete that is a good NBA player, there ain't none.

CablexDeadpool wrote:Find me a bad athlete that is a good NBA player, there ain't none.

Andre Miller for one.

In a nutshell, what i've seen from him is:

Not an eye-popping player now, but he has much room to improve in a lot of aspects and more importantly, it'll be easy for him to improve. He plays the right way imo, has good size and he's not even 20 years old yet. I think he is undervalued at the end of the 1st round and should be higher.

Adams is not a "extremely bad" athlete. The combine measurements are worthless, the only thing that matters is in game action where he does have reasonable speed in halfcourt and transition. If he's a worse athlete than guys like Irving and Harden it's not by all that much

skills pay the bills, show me players with more skills than Jordan Adams. You can't, because it's about skills

he has no burst. he was very reliant on head of steam drives on his forays to the hoop where he used his big body to shed college defenders. his body isn't as big anymore and it looks like he received minimal, if any gains athletically.
on top of that he has no vertical, is not shifty and is slow laterally.
sounds like a bad athlete to me.

Michael Redd 2.0 possibly?

ultimately doesn't matter in JA's case. everyone knew they were NOT getting an athlete. they know he can shoot, they know he has smarts and skillset, and they know they're NOT drafting a starter. in other words, they know exactly what they're getting, more so than a projected "potential" talent.

so at what point in the draft do teams place athletic + "potential" on the back burner and go for skillset and IQ. or do teams look for that lightning in the bottle until the last pick in the draft??, which at some point becomes a bigger gamble than lotto. adams has had to depend on IQ/skillset his whole basketball life, like a few other former bruins i can think of.