Future draft classes

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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1561 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:07 am

DirtyDez wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Saw a little bit of Ayton in person. His team barely lost and he basically didn't give much effort. Lived outside and the only shots I saw him take were long two's which he made. What's incredible is his size and body. He already has an NBA body yet he has the frame to still as strength. I think he could look like Dwight in only a couple years.

Gary Trent Jr is really good but his dad... lol he's a piece of work from the sidelines.


Thats exactly the problem with Ayton. You see him and you just say, that dude is exactly what you would draw up as a perfect 5 in the NBA today. Basically 7 feet, long wingspan, only 18 but already built very well and you can tell this dude is going to be huge when he gets in a NBA training facility. Then add his agility and athleticism. Physically hes basically a perfect prospect for todays 5. Then you see he has the skills as well, solid jumper already and good handle and touch.

But half the time you watch him play, you kinda just sit there and go, man this dude just doesnt do anything. He should be dominating down low and just working his opponents. But the very next game he does just that, scores 30, grabs close to 20 boards and gets a few blocked shots and thats when you go my god he can be one of the best bigs in the NBA if he really wants it. Hes definitely not a safe pick, but his potential is sky high.

Lol when it comes to Gary Trent Jr, he is quite the character himself, maybe the most confident/cocky guy in the past few classes. He is extremely cocky during games and in interviews he is quite the character haha. Im personally not to high on his NBA potential, but glad hes going to Duke.


When Ayton goes thru the motions nobody says anything to him. Teammates nor coaches which isn't surprising. At the next level that won't be acceptable for Ayton just like it wasn't for Stanley Johnson. He needs to realize that emotion and motor are two different things. He shows emotions as a result of something he did rather than between the whistles.

Trent seemed quiet and confident. His dad was shouting stuff at kids half his age. I wonder if the Don K will have him muffled if he oversteps his limits. Wasn't Doc constantly trying to tell K how to use Austin? :wavefinger:


That's surprising about Trent being quiet. Again he's usually comes off very confident/cocky.

From all reports Doc was very hands off. Just sat back and let K do his thing, kinda like David Robinson right now. But K definitely has had his share of helicopter parents. Jabari's mom cussed him out because K benched him one game, Derryck Thornton's dad despised K. Was pissed Grayson and Ingram were the focus points on the offense over him. Rumors around the AAU scene was Thornton wanted to stay, really liked Duke and his teammates, but his dad really pushed him to leave. But ya from all accounts K and Tent Sr get along very well, not worried about that one.

Just a side note cause you brought up Stanley. One of my favorite moments of Stanley in college was he was going back and forth with a player on the other team and I believe he got T'd up or got a warning. But he kept talking then all of a sudden you hear TJ McConnell scream, "Stanley shut up!" Stanley stopped talking after that haha. TJ was a great senior college player.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1562 » by EricAnderson » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:37 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
B-Ball Freak wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
His potential is definitely off the charts defensively. He's going to have the longest wingspan in the NBA when he's drafted. And when I say Anthony Davis I'm speaking strictly his athleticism not his offensive game as well.

Bamba is as raw as you get offensively. Doesn't ever use his left hand in the post, even when going over his right shoulder uses his right hand. The one thing he has going for him is he does have a nice soft touch. So I think there might be hope he can get a 15-18ft jumper.

But if you draft this kid you're drafting him to be your defensive anchor and this is a kid that really should end up competing for DPOY very early on and for a long time.



Would you have his potential ceiling higher than Ayton's?


Ayton definitely has the higher 2 way potential. Ayton has crazy high potential, Ive said that Ayton has the potential to be a better KAT. He has elite physical tools, great measurements, really strong already and moves freakishly well for a guy his size. He also has the ball skills where he can shoot from deep (inconsistent from there but improving) or drive and use his size to score inside.

The thing is with him is he has all the tools and skills you could hope for but doesnt seem to have it in between the ears. His motor is a big question, his work ethic has been questioned many times, doesnt play with the intensity that you would like consistently. Some games he could look like the most dominant big man prospect since Oden then the next game he can just float around and float out to the perimeter too much and you barely notice he played.

I think Bamba is the safer choice because I have a hard time not seeing him being a top 5 defensive C in a worst case scenario. But Ayton is much more of a wild card, if he puts it all together you could be looking at maybe the best 2 way C in the game in his prime. But his red flags are really big especially for a big man.


Where would you put Bagley amongst those two as a NBA prospect?
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1563 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:15 pm

Zion Williamson looks like young Barkley
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1564 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:34 pm

EricAnderson wrote:
Where would you put Bagley amongst those two as a NBA prospect?


Ive always been a huge fan of Bagley's. 6'11 with inside/outside ability. But if im being objective he hasnt really grown much as a player since he was 15. If anything hes fallen in love with his jumper more and thats not a good thing. Im starting to get a feeling he might just be one of those guys who just matured earlier than everyone else and that is why he looked so dominant and hes still kinda just riding off of that hype.

Hes definitely still a really good prospect, should be a really good stretch 4 in the NBA. But I think Ayton and Bamba have better potential than Bagley. Im not even sure Bagley is going to go #1 in his draft. Zion Williamson is a rising star and built like a tank and is a freak athlete.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1565 » by EricAnderson » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:06 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:
Where would you put Bagley amongst those two as a NBA prospect?


Ive always been a huge fan of Bagley's. 6'11 with inside/outside ability. But if im being objective he hasnt really grown much as a player since he was 15. If anything hes fallen in love with his jumper more and thats not a good thing. Im starting to get a feeling he might just be one of those guys who just matured earlier than everyone else and that is why he looked so dominant and hes still kinda just riding off of that hype.

Hes definitely still a really good prospect, should be a really good stretch 4 in the NBA. But I think Ayton and Bamba have better potential than Bagley. Im not even sure Bagley is going to go #1 in his draft. Zion Williamson is a rising star and built like a tank and is a freak athlete.


I figured that. Thought it was odd that as a freshmen he was already talked about as one of the best pro prospects in hs then a few months later he's not even the #1 ranked player in his own class
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1566 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:42 pm

EricAnderson wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:
Where would you put Bagley amongst those two as a NBA prospect?


Ive always been a huge fan of Bagley's. 6'11 with inside/outside ability. But if im being objective he hasnt really grown much as a player since he was 15. If anything hes fallen in love with his jumper more and thats not a good thing. Im starting to get a feeling he might just be one of those guys who just matured earlier than everyone else and that is why he looked so dominant and hes still kinda just riding off of that hype.

Hes definitely still a really good prospect, should be a really good stretch 4 in the NBA. But I think Ayton and Bamba have better potential than Bagley. Im not even sure Bagley is going to go #1 in his draft. Zion Williamson is a rising star and built like a tank and is a freak athlete.


I figured that. Thought it was odd that as a freshmen he was already talked about as one of the best pro prospects in hs then a few months later he's not even the #1 ranked player in his own class


I think many just thought he was either going to keep growing or as he matured his explosion would get better or his jumper or some part of his game would take the next step. But none of that really happened. With the success of Draymond at the 4, I think there is a legit chance Zion goes number 1. Long arms, strong as an ox and just a freak athlete, it doesnt look right that a guy as thick as him is as explosive and fast as he is.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1567 » by Marcus » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:54 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ive always been a huge fan of Bagley's. 6'11 with inside/outside ability. But if im being objective he hasnt really grown much as a player since he was 15. If anything hes fallen in love with his jumper more and thats not a good thing. Im starting to get a feeling he might just be one of those guys who just matured earlier than everyone else and that is why he looked so dominant and hes still kinda just riding off of that hype.

Hes definitely still a really good prospect, should be a really good stretch 4 in the NBA. But I think Ayton and Bamba have better potential than Bagley. Im not even sure Bagley is going to go #1 in his draft. Zion Williamson is a rising star and built like a tank and is a freak athlete.


I figured that. Thought it was odd that as a freshmen he was already talked about as one of the best pro prospects in hs then a few months later he's not even the #1 ranked player in his own class


I think many just thought he was either going to keep growing or as he matured his explosion would get better or his jumper or some part of his game would take the next step. But none of that really happened. With the success of Draymond at the 4, I think there is a legit chance Zion goes number 1. Long arms, strong as an ox and just a freak athlete, it doesnt look right that a guy as thick as him is as explosive and fast as he is.


I still haven't really watched him yet. what should I expect to see?
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1568 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:09 pm

Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:
I figured that. Thought it was odd that as a freshmen he was already talked about as one of the best pro prospects in hs then a few months later he's not even the #1 ranked player in his own class


I think many just thought he was either going to keep growing or as he matured his explosion would get better or his jumper or some part of his game would take the next step. But none of that really happened. With the success of Draymond at the 4, I think there is a legit chance Zion goes number 1. Long arms, strong as an ox and just a freak athlete, it doesnt look right that a guy as thick as him is as explosive and fast as he is.


I still haven't really watched him yet. what should I expect to see?


Zion?

Expect to see a guy that looks like he should be a below the rim type player with how he is built. But the second the game starts, super athletic, very explosive and quick and just moves so freaking well its weird to see it coming from him.

With his improving ball handling the best way I can describe him is a more athletic Draymond. Really great rebounder, and can push it right when he gets the ball. Can be a really good defender when he wants to. Hes a 6'7 PF just like Draymond, not a great jump shot but if he is feeling it, he can make a few. Has a tremendous feel for the game on both sides of the ball.

It really depends on who he is playing, if it is a normal high school team he will probably put up close to 40 with just using his strength and athleticism. If its a legit opponent you still see the athleticism but you see his overall feel for the game much better. Hes also extremely efficient, doesnt ever really take dumb shots. Will take a 3 if he is feeling it, but if it misses you wont see him take another one. Really smart player. Youre going to see a lot of Draymond or Barkley comparisons with him for sure.

Probably the most entertaining player in high school ball in my opinion. So fun to watch.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1569 » by dalton749 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:00 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
I think many just thought he was either going to keep growing or as he matured his explosion would get better or his jumper or some part of his game would take the next step. But none of that really happened. With the success of Draymond at the 4, I think there is a legit chance Zion goes number 1. Long arms, strong as an ox and just a freak athlete, it doesnt look right that a guy as thick as him is as explosive and fast as he is.


I still haven't really watched him yet. what should I expect to see?


Zion?

Expect to see a guy that looks like he should be a below the rim type player with how he is built. But the second the game starts, super athletic, very explosive and quick and just moves so freaking well its weird to see it coming from him.

With his improving ball handling the best way I can describe him is a more athletic Draymond. Really great rebounder, and can push it right when he gets the ball. Can be a really good defender when he wants to. Hes a 6'7 PF just like Draymond, not a great jump shot but if he is feeling it, he can make a few. Has a tremendous feel for the game on both sides of the ball.

It really depends on who he is playing, if it is a normal high school team he will probably put up close to 40 with just using his strength and athleticism. If its a legit opponent you still see the athleticism but you see his overall feel for the game much better. Hes also extremely efficient, doesnt ever really take dumb shots. Will take a 3 if he is feeling it, but if it misses you wont see him take another one. Really smart player. Youre going to see a lot of Draymond or Barkley comparisons with him for sure.

Probably the most entertaining player in high school ball in my opinion. So fun to watch.


You forgot to add dunks like he turned his my player dunking up to 99
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1570 » by EricAnderson » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:48 pm

How does Trevon Duval compare to the elite pgs in the 2016 class?
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1571 » by peachbucket » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:40 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
I think many just thought he was either going to keep growing or as he matured his explosion would get better or his jumper or some part of his game would take the next step. But none of that really happened. With the success of Draymond at the 4, I think there is a legit chance Zion goes number 1. Long arms, strong as an ox and just a freak athlete, it doesnt look right that a guy as thick as him is as explosive and fast as he is.


I still haven't really watched him yet. what should I expect to see?


Zion?

Expect to see a guy that looks like he should be a below the rim type player with how he is built. But the second the game starts, super athletic, very explosive and quick and just moves so freaking well its weird to see it coming from him.

With his improving ball handling the best way I can describe him is a more athletic Draymond. Really great rebounder, and can push it right when he gets the ball. Can be a really good defender when he wants to. Hes a 6'7 PF just like Draymond, not a great jump shot but if he is feeling it, he can make a few. Has a tremendous feel for the game on both sides of the ball.

It really depends on who he is playing, if it is a normal high school team he will probably put up close to 40 with just using his strength and athleticism. If its a legit opponent you still see the athleticism but you see his overall feel for the game much better. Hes also extremely efficient, doesnt ever really take dumb shots. Will take a 3 if he is feeling it, but if it misses you wont see him take another one. Really smart player. Youre going to see a lot of Draymond or Barkley comparisons with him for sure.

Probably the most entertaining player in high school ball in my opinion. So fun to watch.


He's ridiculous. His size/explosiveness combo is really unique for any level. Then you add in the fact that he's only 16 and you may be looking at a generational talent.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1572 » by Marcus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:30 pm

peachbucket wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
I still haven't really watched him yet. what should I expect to see?


Zion?

Expect to see a guy that looks like he should be a below the rim type player with how he is built. But the second the game starts, super athletic, very explosive and quick and just moves so freaking well its weird to see it coming from him.

With his improving ball handling the best way I can describe him is a more athletic Draymond. Really great rebounder, and can push it right when he gets the ball. Can be a really good defender when he wants to. Hes a 6'7 PF just like Draymond, not a great jump shot but if he is feeling it, he can make a few. Has a tremendous feel for the game on both sides of the ball.

It really depends on who he is playing, if it is a normal high school team he will probably put up close to 40 with just using his strength and athleticism. If its a legit opponent you still see the athleticism but you see his overall feel for the game much better. Hes also extremely efficient, doesnt ever really take dumb shots. Will take a 3 if he is feeling it, but if it misses you wont see him take another one. Really smart player. Youre going to see a lot of Draymond or Barkley comparisons with him for sure.

Probably the most entertaining player in high school ball in my opinion. So fun to watch.


He's ridiculous. His size/explosiveness combo is really unique for any level. Then you add in the fact that he's only 16 and you may be looking at a generational talent.


He definitely looks the part in the highlight packets but you can't always accept those as truth especially when a player is clearly more physically advanced than the rest of the kids on the court. I only saw a full game in the UA Elite 24 game but that's a glorified street ball game at best so obviously nothing to really see outside of the fact he doesn't look like a 16 year old.

I'm hearing so many great things and have always felt like Barkley would kill in this era with his versatility so would love to see a Barkleyesque player in the league. Definitely putting him on the radar. I appreciate the inputs.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1573 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:53 pm

EricAnderson wrote:How does Trevon Duval compare to the elite pgs in the 2016 class?


I personally would have him 4th behind the 3 that always get talked about but ahead of Fox.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1574 » by DirtyDez » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:12 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:How does Trevon Duval compare to the elite pgs in the 2016 class?


I personally would have him 4th behind the 3 that always get talked about but ahead of Fox.


Haven't seen much besides youtube stuff but he looks incredible. Like a flashier Fultz.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1575 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:26 pm

DirtyDez wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:How does Trevon Duval compare to the elite pgs in the 2016 class?


I personally would have him 4th behind the 3 that always get talked about but ahead of Fox.


Haven't seen much besides youtube stuff but he looks incredible. Like a flashier Fultz.


If he had a better jumper I might toss him up there with those 3 guys. But his jumper is just so bad, I also don't see much potential with it either. Derrick Rose type athleticism when it comes to lateral quickness and speed, not quite the same hops though, probably Lillard level hops. Elite handles, probably better than DSJ and I'd actually put his handles above Kyrie's at the same stage. Perfect size for the position, phenomenal finisher with either hands, with his handles and finishing ability that's why you see a lot of Kyrie comparisons, it's just that freaking jumper, it's so bad. The 3 PGs this year don't have a weakness like that. DSJ has put up the worst jump shooting numbers but people aren't really worried about it, always been a streaky shooter but has good consistent form and is a good FT shooter. He projects to be a solid shooter. Duval is Rubio/Rondo bad.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1576 » by No-Man » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:54 pm

Is Duval really that bad of a shooter? I thought he was more at the Smith level, as an inconsistent guy but not a lost cause.
I love his skills and scoring potential, not sure about him running an offense 100%, same problem we got with DSJ and in the past with Kyrie, albeit they are all different prospects.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1577 » by Chuck Everett » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:06 pm

I saw those Zion Williamson clips, but I'm sorry, I need to see him on the summer circuit. The talent he is playing against is useless as far as evaluation goes.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1578 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:19 pm

Fischella wrote:Is Duval really that bad of a shooter? I thought he was more at the Smith level, as an inconsistent guy but not a lost cause.
I love his skills and scoring potential, not sure about him running an offense 100%, same problem we got with DSJ and in the past with Kyrie, albeit they are all different prospects.


In my opinion he is that bad of a shooter. Always seem to hover around mid 50s on his FT, I believe his fg% on jumpers is around mid to high 20s. I know 3 point % has always hovered around 20%. One thing I will say is he has seemed to start to tighten up his form and it has become more consistent. So there is signs he's clearly working on it, just has a long long ways to go.

Just on a side note, I'm not worried about DSJ's facilitating, I think he's going to be a monster in the PnR and I can see him with like a Lowry average of around maybe 7-8 assists a game. I also have Duval above Kyrie at this stage when it came to facilitating.
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1579 » by Upperclass » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:45 pm

Duval isnt a PG imo.. he's a smaller Tyreke Evans. I dont think he has the mental capacities to run a team, or improve his game enough to even be a full nba starter.. time will tell.. but he doesnt scream standout or impact to me
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Re: Future draft classes 

Post#1580 » by Marcus » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:58 am

Hey Marvin Bagley is playing on ESPN 2 in about 3 minutes if anybody wants to see him for themselves.

Billy Preston and Matt Coleman will also be playing btw.
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