Future draft classes

[ManualRam]

The Woods vs. Smith debate is going to be a heated debate. I would not say he is much better, considering that the last time they went head to head Woods dropped 42 points on him, Smith had 23. Smith's HS team is much more talented and beat Woods' team handily.

I wish they were playing on the same circuit to see how they compare. I would give Smith the nod right now as he is more of a pure PG, but Woods has a better frame to put on muscle and IMHO has a higher upside. The 2016 class is loaded.

i think they share a very similar athletic and physical profile. both still look like they're kids, bc they are, but they both play stronger than their build. they're both super athletic in terms of leaping, speed and quickness too. woods looks like he has more definition, but he could be an early maturer. while woods is an athletic freak, i think he's a tier below the westbrook and rose's of PGs in terms of being a physical specimen. he has already been measured and his wingspan was a little disappointing for his height. i don't think smith has been measured yet.

i think smith has surpassed woods mentally (i wouldn't even rate woods the 2nd best pg in that class). smith's more skilled, has better vision, change of speed/direction and is the more creative finisher. smith is more aggressive and he does a better job combining his scoring with playmaking. woods looks like he's thinking too much on the court. like he's trying to be too fine of a PG instead of just playing instinctively. maybe it'll click with woods and he'll figure out which direction is more comfortable for him going forward.

[ManualRam]

Also with Tatum i love the skillset but is he hampered by an injury of some sort or does he just lack explosion and burst? I ask about an injury because i noticed the brace/pad on one knee and not the other and his movements seem labored.

tatum's not very athletic. he could be experiencing growing pains. maybe he'll gain more explosion once he's done growing and settled into his body, but i just don't think he's particularly athletic which is why i think his spot in the top 3-4 in his class is tenuous.

[Marcus]

Also with Tatum i love the skillset but is he hampered by an injury of some sort or does he just lack explosion and burst? I ask about an injury because i noticed the brace/pad on one knee and not the other and his movements seem labored.

tatum's not very athletic. he could be experiencing growing pains. maybe he'll gain more explosion once he's done growing and settled into his body, but i just don't think he's particularly athletic which is why i think his spot in the top 3-4 in his class is tenuous.

Same thing I was thinking, and given the growth from Smith and Jackson it might be difficult for Tatum to hold that spot with the high skill levels of the other two combined with their superior athletic prowess.

What do you think about VJ King?

[skiz2]

7. VJ King

Is there something with VJ im missing? because i don't quite see what all the hype surrounding him is.

Also with Tatum i love the skillset but is he hampered by an injury of some sort or does he just lack explosion and burst? I ask about an injury because i noticed the brace/pad on one knee and not the other and his movements seem labored.

What concerns you about King? I will admit he is much more of a prospect than a player at this stage. I see big upside in him. His movements remind me of Nic Batum, and I can see him as a similar high level glue guy.

Tatum, I am not sure if he has an injury, but I do know he is going through a growth spurt. Was 6'6 this time last year and is now a legit 6'8, and doctors say he can reach around 6'10 when it is all said and done. It could be growing pains/getting used to his knew body. All I know is that he was hands down the best player at the circuit a few weeks ago, nothing short of unstoppable. He already possesses pro moves and as he gets used to his new body...watch out.

[skiz2]

The Woods vs. Smith debate is going to be a heated debate. I would not say he is much better, considering that the last time they went head to head Woods dropped 42 points on him, Smith had 23. Smith's HS team is much more talented and beat Woods' team handily.

I wish they were playing on the same circuit to see how they compare. I would give Smith the nod right now as he is more of a pure PG, but Woods has a better frame to put on muscle and IMHO has a higher upside. The 2016 class is loaded.

i think they share a very similar athletic and physical profile. both still look like they're kids, bc they are, but they both play stronger than their build. they're both super athletic in terms of leaping, speed and quickness too. woods looks like he has more definition, but he could be an early maturer. while woods is an athletic freak, i think he's a tier below the westbrook and rose's of PGs in terms of being a physical specimen. he has already been measured and his wingspan was a little disappointing for his height. i don't think smith has been measured yet.

i think smith has surpassed woods mentally (i wouldn't even rate woods the 2nd best pg in that class). smith's more skilled, has better vision, change of speed/direction and is the more creative finisher. smith is more aggressive and he does a better job combining his scoring with playmaking. woods looks like he's thinking too much on the court. like he's trying to be too fine of a PG instead of just playing instinctively. maybe it'll click with woods and he'll figure out which direction is more comfortable for him going forward.

I for sure agree with your last statement, Woods does seem to think a lot on the court. He has said in a lot of recent interviews that he is trying to refine his PG skills, which could explain a dip in scoring numbers etc. A lot of the same things were said about Rose in the season rising to his jr. year, that seemed to pay off as he is one of the few that combines freak athleticism with a high b-ball IQ.

I love both of them as prospects and they are good friends. There have been rumblings about them wanting to play with each other as well. Could you imagine trying to guard that backcourt?

Should be fun to watch both of them develop.

[ManualRam]

Also with Tatum i love the skillset but is he hampered by an injury of some sort or does he just lack explosion and burst? I ask about an injury because i noticed the brace/pad on one knee and not the other and his movements seem labored.

tatum's not very athletic. he could be experiencing growing pains. maybe he'll gain more explosion once he's done growing and settled into his body, but i just don't think he's particularly athletic which is why i think his spot in the top 3-4 in his class is tenuous.

Same thing I was thinking, and given the growth from Smith and Jackson it might be difficult for Tatum to hold that spot with the high skill levels of the other two combined with their superior athletic prowess.

What do you think about VJ King?

VJ's good but i probably wouldn't have him in my top 10 for his class. he's got really good length for a wing. he's smooth, but not an explosive athlete and skill-wise doesn't have one aspect of his game that stands out. maybe his ability to get his own shot from mid, but that's about it.

[reanimator]

Thoughts on Jalen Coleman? I'm thinking a Ben Gordon type, close?

Miles Bridges? Jamal Murray? TJ Leaf? Josh Langford? Amir Coffey? Jermaine Haley?

How would you guys rank the top 5 PGs in 2016?

[Marcus]

7. VJ King

Is there something with VJ im missing? because i don't quite see what all the hype surrounding him is.

Also with Tatum i love the skillset but is he hampered by an injury of some sort or does he just lack explosion and burst? I ask about an injury because i noticed the brace/pad on one knee and not the other and his movements seem labored.

What concerns you about King? I will admit he is much more of a prospect than a player at this stage. I see big upside in him. His movements remind me of Nic Batum, and I can see him as a similar high level glue guy.

Tatum, I am not sure if he has an injury, but I do know he is going through a growth spurt. Was 6'6 this time last year and is now a legit 6'8, and doctors say he can reach around 6'10 when it is all said and done. It could be growing pains/getting used to his knew body. All I know is that he was hands down the best player at the circuit a few weeks ago, nothing short of unstoppable. He already possesses pro moves and as he gets used to his new body...watch out.

as unfair of a statement as it might be, nothing about King impresses me. no great tools, not overly quick, explosive, nothing seems outstanding about the kid. Don't see great court vision or breakdown ability. His jumper falls but thats about it. I'll acknowledge that he's long but i don't see anything else with him that makes him an upper ech player. Like everything he gives you can be found in any other prospect ranked above him and those other prospects will do those things better. I feel extra critical of the kid because he may turn into something special but i just don't see it.

sidenote, found what appeared to be more recent footage of Tatum. no brace, looked bigger though still with a small build but their was more explosion and more fluidity in his movements. So whatever was hampering him whether it be growth spurt or injury seems to have worked itself out and Tatum looked as impressive as he was the first time i saw him. Still not the upper tier athlete that some of his peers are but more than serviceable and the skillset was never really a question in my eyes.

[reanimator]

ESPN 2016 rankings

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/baske ... order/true

Jaylen Fisher is that good or is the UK connection? Tons of 17 year olds on that list...

[ManualRam]

Thoughts on Jalen Coleman? I'm thinking a Ben Gordon type, close?

Miles Bridges? Jamal Murray? TJ Leaf? Josh Langford? Amir Coffey? Jermaine Haley?

How would you guys rank the top 5 PGs in 2016?

i do like jalen coleman. he's a great shooter, maybe the best in his class when factoring in versatility and shot selection. he's a sniper from deep with a pull up game as well. idk what type of pro prospect he'll be, but i think he'll be a heck of a college player. BG had a pretty unique combination of shooting, shot-creation, strength and elevation. coleman doesn't have some of that. if he's done growing he should work on his point skills. i think he's smart and good defensively enough to learn how to play a george hill or mario chalmers type of role at the point. otherwise, he's a small 6'3-6'4 because of his smallish frame. maybe he could be a juan dixon type of guard.

i've never seen haley. i have seen coffey but only in passing in matchups with tyus jones. i didn't pay enough attention to have an opinion on him. i've only seen murray at the hoop summit and he just looked like a poised shooter who plays the point.

i have seen langford, leaf and bridges though.
bridges is a tough has nails, tweener type forward. long arms, strong build. straight line driver with good footwork. ambidextrous finisher. reminds me a little bit of a lefty bonzi wells. he'll need to improve his ugly jumper and advanced ball skills.

i really like langford. i touched a little bit on him on the first page of this thread i think. he's a powerfully built slasher and playmaker with good spring on his jumper. he gets after it defensively and has a good enough handle/playmaking ability to run the point for stretches. he was once a top 10 player, but had a couple of setbacks with nagging injuries. i think we'll see him back in the top 10 before he's done with HS.

leaf will inevitably get compared to kyle wiltjer and players of his ilk because he's 6'9, white, can shoot, high iq... blah blah. but leaf actually has pretty good mobility both in the open floor and putting it on the deck in the halfcourt. to go with the aforementioned skills he's got long arms and can pass it.

[ManualRam]

ESPN 2016 rankings

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/baske ... order/true

Jaylen Fisher is that good or is the UK connection? Tons of 17 year olds on that list...

i find that list strange to say the least. good thing we have composite rankings.

[ManualRam]

as for 2016 PGs, my personal order from what i've seen would be:

1. dennis smith jr
2. derryck thornton
3. lonzo ball
4. seventh woods
5. kobi simmons

[Marcus]

as for 2016 PGs, my personal order from what i've seen would be:
2. derryck thornton

Derryck looks to have filled out a little more in some of the latest vids i've seen. seems like he kept the quicks with it too. holding out hope for him to grow another inch or 2.

[ManualRam]

as for 2016 PGs, my personal order from what i've seen would be:
2. derryck thornton

Derryck looks to have filled out a little more in some of the latest vids i've seen. seems like he kept the quicks with it too. holding out hope for him to grow another inch or 2.

that's what happens when players sit out the circuits and work on their bodies and games. that's what thornton did, same thing a kid like karl towns did. it might hurt their rankings in the short term, but they'll come out of the summer as better players.
i think players can improve more by working on themselves and attending camps as opposed to the usual travel games and camps.

[Marcus]

as for 2016 PGs, my personal order from what i've seen would be:
2. derryck thornton

Derryck looks to have filled out a little more in some of the latest vids i've seen. seems like he kept the quicks with it too. holding out hope for him to grow another inch or 2.

that's what happens when players sit out the circuits and work on their bodies and games. that's what thornton did, same thing a kid like karl towns did. it might hurt their rankings in the short term, but they'll come out of the summer as better players.
i think players can improve more by working on themselves and attending camps as opposed to the usual travel games and camps.

don't think it hinders the sharpness in their game by taking time away from playing competitively or does the AAU circuit not really hold a high enough competitive level on the court for that to even matter?

[ManualRam]

Derryck looks to have filled out a little more in some of the latest vids i've seen. seems like he kept the quicks with it too. holding out hope for him to grow another inch or 2.

that's what happens when players sit out the circuits and work on their bodies and games. that's what thornton did, same thing a kid like karl towns did. it might hurt their rankings in the short term, but they'll come out of the summer as better players.
i think players can improve more by working on themselves and attending camps as opposed to the usual travel games and camps.

don't think it hinders the sharpness in their game by taking time away from playing competitively or does the AAU circuit not really hold a high enough competitive level on the court for that to even matter?

players don't need to be sharp to be successful on the AAU circuit. its good to see the best going against each other, but it's not good basketball. there's very little coaching or structure. i don't know how much kids learn by playing those games. now with all the competing major circuits the talent gets diluted too. the best aren't playing the best...just some of them.

[Marcus]

that's what happens when players sit out the circuits and work on their bodies and games. that's what thornton did, same thing a kid like karl towns did. it might hurt their rankings in the short term, but they'll come out of the summer as better players.
i think players can improve more by working on themselves and attending camps as opposed to the usual travel games and camps.

don't think it hinders the sharpness in their game by taking time away from playing competitively or does the AAU circuit not really hold a high enough competitive level on the court for that to even matter?

players don't need to be sharp to be successful on the AAU circuit. its good to see the best going against each other, but it's not good basketball. there's very little coaching or structure. i don't know how much kids learn by playing those games. now with all the competing major circuits the talent gets diluted too. the best aren't playing the best...just some of them.

so basically a way to keep their name buzzing and make a new mixtape showing highlights. but no real basketball.

[Marcus]

that's what happens when players sit out the circuits and work on their bodies and games. that's what thornton did, same thing a kid like karl towns did. it might hurt their rankings in the short term, but they'll come out of the summer as better players.
i think players can improve more by working on themselves and attending camps as opposed to the usual travel games and camps.

Looks like Tyus Battle took that route as well because I hadn't heard/seen much from him till recently. Kidd looks much bigger than he was before and looked to be smoother with his movements than the last time i saw him like he wasn't fighting so much for space as he was just naturally creating it for himself.

Better SG size than Monk and Ferguson how do the 3 of them rank to you?

[ManualRam]

that's what happens when players sit out the circuits and work on their bodies and games. that's what thornton did, same thing a kid like karl towns did. it might hurt their rankings in the short term, but they'll come out of the summer as better players.
i think players can improve more by working on themselves and attending camps as opposed to the usual travel games and camps.

Looks like Tyus Battle took that route as well because I hadn't heard/seen much from him till recently. Kidd looks much bigger than he was before and looked to be smoother with his movements than the last time i saw him like he wasn't fighting so much for space as he was just naturally creating it for himself.

Better SG size than Monk and Ferguson how do the 3 of them rank to you?

tyus is playing. he's playing up with the u17s on the EYBL circuit, but not playing particularly well. i still like him though. he does have good size and he's a better ball-handler and 3 pt shooter than say, vj king.

i'd rank him behind monk and in front of terrance ferguson. monk has a dynamite combination of athleticism and scoring instincts. he's also improving as a playmaker too. ferguson is a track athlete so he does have a ton of potential, but if his 3's aren't going in, he doesn't seem to know how to impact the game. he can run, jump and shoot 3's but the rest of his game needs a lot of work.

[Marcus]

that's what happens when players sit out the circuits and work on their bodies and games. that's what thornton did, same thing a kid like karl towns did. it might hurt their rankings in the short term, but they'll come out of the summer as better players.
i think players can improve more by working on themselves and attending camps as opposed to the usual travel games and camps.

Looks like Tyus Battle took that route as well because I hadn't heard/seen much from him till recently. Kidd looks much bigger than he was before and looked to be smoother with his movements than the last time i saw him like he wasn't fighting so much for space as he was just naturally creating it for himself.

Better SG size than Monk and Ferguson how do the 3 of them rank to you?

tyus is playing. he's playing up with the u17s on the EYBL circuit, but not playing particularly well. i still like him though. he does have good size and he's a better ball-handler and 3 pt shooter than say, vj king.

i'd rank him behind monk and in front of terrance ferguson. monk has a dynamite combination of athleticism and scoring instincts. he's also improving as a playmaker too. ferguson is a track athlete so he does have a ton of potential, but if his 3's aren't going in, he doesn't seem to know how to impact the game. he can run, jump and shoot 3's but the rest of his game needs a lot of work.

Monk look like a combo guard long term or can he make that transition to PG?