Marvin Bagley

[RookieStar]

Wait.. is someone actually saying Bagley is 6'7-6'8? Dude is 6'11.

[nolang1]

Wait.. is someone actually saying Bagley is 6'7-6'8? Dude is 6'11.

It’s somewhat of a meme among the people with the contrarian anti-Bagley takes. Not only are his points/rebounds not legitimate because he’s bigger and more athletic than the competition, but his height itself is not the right kind of height because his neck is too long.

[ItsThatEasy]

How are we comparing a prospect with a possibly all time great motor with Michael freakin' Beasley?

I LOVED Beasely at KSU, his motor on the glass was actually pretty darn good, but in general? No so much.

Super lazy comp IMO.

[Duke4life831]

Are Duke better defensively in the last 3 games?

Yes but the main reason for this is not because of no Bagley, it's because K finally went to playing zone full time. It's been obvious all year Duke was better in zone, it just took K awhile to figure it out.

[Justwar]

Bagley playing only center is gonna be the difference maker, dukes lineup is not capable due to liabilities to play pick and roll defense. And offense the spacing is not good for that style k uses normally

[Duke4life831]

Bagley playing only center is gonna be the difference maker, dukes lineup is not capable due to liabilities to play pick and roll defense. And offense the spacing is not good for that style k uses normally

The thing is the 3 games Bagley went down our spacing has gotten even worse because Javin or Bolden are out there the entire game and they bring no spacing at all. Bagley guards the PnR better than any other Duke big but that isnt really going to matter though because Duke is playing nothing but the 2-3 zone and Bagley is going to be in one of the corners for the zone so hes not going to be dealing with too much PnR.

[Justwar]

The problem is other than Syracuse what teams in the last twenty years have been zone teams to be elite in a tournament format? I agree on a individual level Bagley is helped because they have some liabilities on defense. I think it's very hard judge pro prospects on Duke, lots of just bad fits.

[Alatan]

From what ive seen Bagley doesnt have good rim protection or help defense instincts. He also has a smallish wingspan and a short standing reach. I wouldnt be so trusting of him being able to play the C position full time. Sure he can jump high and fast but that is a secondary or tertiary quality for a big defender. Length, reach, size, mobility, awareness, timing, positioning, instincts and fundamentals are what makes a good big man defender. Bagley hasn't shown any of those except mobility.

[bwgood77]

From what ive seen Bagley doesnt have good rim protection or help defense instincts. He also has a smallish wingspan and a short standing reach. I wouldnt be so trusting of him being able to play the C position full time. Sure he can jump high and fast but that is a secondary or tertiary quality for a big defender. Length, reach, size, mobility, awareness, timing, positioning, instincts and fundamentals are what makes a good big man defender. Bagley hasn't shown any of those except mobility.

Duke has been far better on defense without its star big man
By Ben Leonard | 02/20/2018

Marvin Bagley III is a truly special talent—on offense. But as it has shown recently, Duke is better served without him on defense.
In their last three games, the Blue Devils have been locked in on defense in a way few thought would be possible. Certainly, its offense has taken a hit, but overall, Duke has netted nearly four points per game better without him in conference play. After downing Virginia Tech and Clemson, the Blue Devils have held two straight conference opponents to fewer than 60 points for the first time since 2015.

Bagley is worse than frontcourt mates Wendell Carter Jr. and Javin DeLaurier in defensive rating, and he has looked overmatched defensively for much of the year. Although he is a transcendent offensive talent, he hasn’t been able to protect the rim for much of the season. He has a putrid 3.2 percent block rate—that’s five times worse than the national leader.

And though Bagley has strong post moves on offense, he hasn’t been able to translate that to the defensive end of the floor. He has struggled in particular when he plays against someone his own size—take Wake Forest’s Doral Moore, for example. The 7-foot-1 Demon Deacon center embarrassed Bagley, throwing down dunk after dunk and scoring 14 points in the first half. Krzyzewski says the only way Duke could guard him was fouling him, a strategy that eventually worked, but not without a cost—Bagley got into foul trouble and DeLaurier fouled out after just 12 minutes.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/02/no-defending-marvin-bagley-iiis-biggest-weakness

[Justwar]

Nba college apples and oranges. Julius Randle looked like more of a sf then a center like now.

[nolang1]

Bagley is worse than frontcourt mates Wendell Carter Jr. and Javin DeLaurier in defensive rating, and he has looked overmatched defensively for much of the year.

Bagley plays pretty much every possible non-garbage time minute. When he's on the court and Carter isn't, it means Duke is playing a good offensive team that has exposed Carter by making him defend pick-and-rolls. Duke has played Georgia Tech (and actually Georgia Tech's game against Duke was its 2nd-highest offensive output of the past month), Virginia Tech, and Clemson minus two starters in the last three games.

And though Bagley has strong post moves on offense, he hasn’t been able to translate that to the defensive end of the floor. He has struggled in particular when he plays against someone his own size—take Wake Forest’s Doral Moore, for example. The 7-foot-1 Demon Deacon center embarrassed Bagley, throwing down dunk after dunk and scoring 14 points in the first half. Krzyzewski says the only way Duke could guard him was fouling him, a strategy that eventually worked, but not without a cost—Bagley got into foul trouble and DeLaurier fouled out after just 12 minutes.

This is particularly wild. Carter started out guarding Moore that game; as has been the case every time Duke plays man-to-man defense, Bagley guards the player who is more of a threat from the perimeter. I distinctly remember Moore victimizing Wendell Carter on the offensive boards that game and Bagley switching onto him in the 2nd half and keeping him off the glass. I rewatched the 1st half and the one basket Moore scored on Bagley was a contested midrange jumper that had the announcers surprised because an overwhelming percentage of Moore's baskets for the season were dunks or right around the rim. Bagley had two fouls in the first half; one was offensive and the other was on a guard. Moore shot zero free throws for the game. I'm having a hard time finding a single factual statement in that paragraph.

[bwgood77]

Bagley is worse than frontcourt mates Wendell Carter Jr. and Javin DeLaurier in defensive rating, and he has looked overmatched defensively for much of the year.

Bagley plays pretty much every possible non-garbage time minute. When he's on the court and Carter isn't, it means Duke is playing a good offensive team that has exposed Carter by making him defend pick-and-rolls. Duke has played Georgia Tech (and actually Georgia Tech's game against Duke was its 2nd-highest offensive output of the past month), Virginia Tech, and Clemson minus two starters in the last three games.

And though Bagley has strong post moves on offense, he hasn’t been able to translate that to the defensive end of the floor. He has struggled in particular when he plays against someone his own size—take Wake Forest’s Doral Moore, for example. The 7-foot-1 Demon Deacon center embarrassed Bagley, throwing down dunk after dunk and scoring 14 points in the first half. Krzyzewski says the only way Duke could guard him was fouling him, a strategy that eventually worked, but not without a cost—Bagley got into foul trouble and DeLaurier fouled out after just 12 minutes.

This is particularly wild. Carter started out guarding Moore that game; as has been the case every time Duke plays man-to-man defense, Bagley guards the player who is more of a threat from the perimeter. I distinctly remember Moore victimizing Wendell Carter on the offensive boards that game and Bagley switching onto him in the 2nd half and keeping him off the glass. I rewatched the 1st half and the one basket Moore scored on Bagley was a contested midrange jumper that had the announcers surprised because an overwhelming percentage of Moore's baskets for the season were dunks or right around the rim. Bagley had two fouls in the first half; one was offensive and the other was on a guard. Moore shot zero free throws for the game. I'm having a hard time finding a single factual statement in that paragraph.

More from the Duke news article...

The same was true against St. John’s, when 6-foot-11 forward Tariq Owens forced his way into the post for 17 points. Bagley is quick and nimble, but lacks the physicality necessary to be an effective post defender at this point. A combination of DeLaurier and Bolden has worked surprisingly well at matching up with the strength of conference opponents. Now, that pairing cannot replace Bagley’s offensive production, but the offense is still running at a satisfactory level with Grayson Allen emerging as the go-to option.

Bagley’s absence has hurt Duke’s scoring totals, but the defense has more than made up for it. The offense isn’t fundamentally worse—it just looks different. With Allen running the show, the captain has been able to drive and kick much more—freeing up his own shot. Allen is doing what he does best—shooting from deep. Even so, the offense has dropped roughly 10 points per game without Bagley, but the defense has been nearly 14 points better per game.

It’s a tradeoff that Duke fans should welcome for now. Bagley being back would be ideal, but right now, the team is playing as well as it has all season. The Blue Devils’ offense has never been a problem. Plain and simple: their defense lost them every single game they have dropped so far, even against Virginia.

The best bet for a team that drafts him is that they have a defensive force in the middle, like a Gobert.

[RookieStar]

Is he playing against Lousiville? I really think he is hurting his stock if he doesn't play in games. People might wonder stuff like is his injury more serious than previously thought or something.

[Duke4life831]

Im not saying I think that Bagley is a stud defender or anything, but I think that article wanted to create a headline that would get some clicks. The fact that the article basically brushes past the point that Duke finally switched to a 2-3 zone, this is what they said about the change of defense.

It might have something to do with the trapping 2-3 zone that head coach Mike Krzyzewski implemented against the Hokies and the Tigers. But a change in defense alone would not make that drastic of a difference.

The problem I have is with the bold, theyre basically implying that Bagley being out is the main reason there has been a drastic change in defense. As a Duke fan and you can ask any other Duke fan, its been clear as day from the start of the season Duke's defense has been drastically better in the zone than in man. I cant count how many times Jay Bilas, Jay Williams, Seth Greenberg and who ever ESPN has on at half all say, "Duke needs to become a full time zone defensive team." Its been clear as day and I dont think Ive been to quiet on how K has not been doing a good job this year but Im glad he finally realized to go zone.

I think Javin is a good defender and played a good 2nd half his last game. But the dude has been extremely inconsistent and usually puts the opposing team in the bonus extremely quick because he has a foul rate of 8.4 per 40. Also there is a probable top 10 drafted big on Duke that has been benched numerous times because of his defense and its not Bagley, its Wendell Carter.

Also the block thing, ya Ive said it numerous times that Ive been disappointed with Bagley's rim protection. He was a really good shot blocker in high school and it hasnt transitioned to college. But he does play out on the perimeter a fair amount of time since he guards the 4s while Carter guards the 5s, plus Ive heard from a good amount of people that K tells Bagley to focus on boards to stay out of foul trouble. So to say the nation leader has a 5x higher Blk% is kind of miss leading since Bagley doesnt play the 5 and plays alongside a good shot blocker in Carter. Plus in conference play the dude is almost averaging a block and a half a game.

Again Im not saying Bagley is a stud defender or shot blocker. But to basically say the 3 game turnaround on defense is because he isnt there is, Im sorry clickbait. Im not the only Duke fan that has said Bagley has been Duke's most consistent defender, again not saying much when looking at the team but still. It has been clear as day all year that Duke needed to switch defensive systems, they just happen to do it when Bagley went down and they had a very easy stretch in their schedule. Lets see how that defense looks with Bagley back and playing a similar level opponent.

Rant is over.

[Duke4life831]

Is he playing against Lousiville? I really think he is hurting his stock if he doesn't play in games. People might wonder stuff like is his injury more serious than previously thought or something.

Game time decision.

Edit: Just came out that Bagley will be out.

[RookieStar]

Again? Seriously? What kind of injury is that?

[Duke4life831]

Again? Seriously? What kind of injury is that?

Haha the rumors are swirling around. Ive heard people say completely opposite things, I heard it was a gurantee that Bagley would play today and Ive also heard Bagley is thinking about hanging it up for the season and either just going to get ready for the draft or pull a Kyrie and just return at the start of the Tournament even though he could return much sooner.

With Duke and K you really have no idea because they release basically 0 information when it comes to injuries. Ive heard from my buddy connected to the team that he was limping when he missed the 1st game but has looked perfectly fine since. He has no clue what is going on.

Ive already said if I was Bagley I wouldnt come back, especially now with Duke playing zone the entire time. I think zone is a much better system for this Duke team but does absolutely nothing to help Bagley with his draft stock. Im on record that I think Bagley should just start working out with a personal trainer like a Drew Hanlen and work 8-10 hours a day on his handle and shot up until the draft.

[RookieStar]

Well... my team also has a rookie player with a "minor" knee sprain that took him out for months already.

[Duke4life831]

Well... my team also has a rookie player with a "minor" knee sprain that took him out for months already.

Ya thats true. But Ive heard plenty from different people that Bagley looks just fine and has passed all medical tests, its just up to him and K on when they want him to play again.

[doordoor123]

Nba college apples and oranges. Julius Randle looked like more of a sf then a center like now.

If Julius could make a jumper he COULD be an SF. Problem is he can’t and his offensive rebounding is too valuable to put him at the perimeter.