Kris Dunn

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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#241 » by Prez » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:16 pm

Really hoping NOLA can get him, he and Davis would be electric.
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#242 » by SelfishPlayer » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:32 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote: Why not look at assists? Asst% can be manipulated by the head coach by simply initiating set plays with the same guy. Dunn dominated the basketball for Providence and had a high scoring forward in Ben Bentil averaging 21ppg that he could give the ball to on set plays.. Dunn reminds me of another 22 year old turnover machine out of Providence that was simply allowed to "do his thing," MarShon Brooks. People thought that MarShon Brooks would be a much better pro than Klay Thompson.

Sorry, if you think Dunn was allowed to 'do his thing' at PU, you simply didn't watch the team last year. Very structured offense, with Dunn sharing the ball on the perimeter with two other ball-handlers/initiators, and almost no room for Dunn to just grab the ball and attack (aside from transition). He played along with that too much, and it's probably the biggest reason why it's hard to get a confident read on him now.

I don't like Dunn that much, think he'll have a hard time scoring in the NBA. But I don't understand how reasons that are this poorly though-out can lead you to any conclusion. Your points here are:
--that Dunn's coach attempted to inflate his assist rate by running set plays for him, and apparently otherwise not letting him handle the ball (which would've brought his assist rate down). Though you also insist Dunn dominated the ball.
--that Marshon Brooks, who plays a different position than Dunn and played under a totally different coach with different players, is very relevant for evaluating Kris Dunn's future because they both averaged about the same amount of TOs (and because some people overrated him coming out of college)


Dunn averaged 3.5 turnovers per game and he WASN'T allowed to do his thing? :crazy:
He was a turnover machine even while playing with a legit NBA forward in Ben Bentil so there is no excuse that he was simply playing by himself and was trying to make the best out of a horrific situation. The ball should have never been in his hands to such a degree and people see him as an NBA point guard? :noway: He's already 22 years of age for anyone that will want to try to compare him to 18-20 year olds that may have been the same sort of turnover prone "point guards" in college but developed out of it in the NBA. Marshon Brooks was allowed to do his thing for the same university and turned out to be a horrible complimentary NBA player. Dunn was a turnover machine and even played with Ben Bentil who could get drafted in the 1st round. The moral of the story is that I've seen players produce pretty well when given expanded roles but it doesn't scale up in competition or even settle very well into role player status. Examples? Kevin Love to Cleveland, Marshon Brooks as an NBA reserve. Dunn in the NBA translates to even more turnover prone with even better players around him against even better competition. That is if he's to be a point guard...
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#243 » by Patsfan1081 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:13 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote: Why not look at assists? Asst% can be manipulated by the head coach by simply initiating set plays with the same guy. Dunn dominated the basketball for Providence and had a high scoring forward in Ben Bentil averaging 21ppg that he could give the ball to on set plays.. Dunn reminds me of another 22 year old turnover machine out of Providence that was simply allowed to "do his thing," MarShon Brooks. People thought that MarShon Brooks would be a much better pro than Klay Thompson.

Sorry, if you think Dunn was allowed to 'do his thing' at PU, you simply didn't watch the team last year. Very structured offense, with Dunn sharing the ball on the perimeter with two other ball-handlers/initiators, and almost no room for Dunn to just grab the ball and attack (aside from transition). He played along with that too much, and it's probably the biggest reason why it's hard to get a confident read on him now.

I don't like Dunn that much, think he'll have a hard time scoring in the NBA. But I don't understand how reasons that are this poorly though-out can lead you to any conclusion. Your points here are:
--that Dunn's coach attempted to inflate his assist rate by running set plays for him, and apparently otherwise not letting him handle the ball (which would've brought his assist rate down). Though you also insist Dunn dominated the ball.
--that Marshon Brooks, who plays a different position than Dunn and played under a totally different coach with different players, is very relevant for evaluating Kris Dunn's future because they both averaged about the same amount of TOs (and because some people overrated him coming out of college)


Dunn averaged 3.5 turnovers per game and he WASN'T allowed to do his thing? :crazy:
He was a turnover machine even while playing with a legit NBA forward in Ben Bentil so there is no excuse that he was simply playing by himself and was trying to make the best out of a horrific situation. The ball should have never been in his hands to such a degree and people see him as an NBA point guard? :noway: He's already 22 years of age for anyone that will want to try to compare him to 18-20 year olds that may have been the same sort of turnover prone "point guards" in college but developed out of it in the NBA. Marshon Brooks was allowed to do his thing for the same university and turned out to be a horrible complimentary NBA player. Dunn was a turnover machine and even played with Ben Bentil who could get drafted in the 1st round. The moral of the story is that I've seen players produce pretty well when given expanded roles but it doesn't scale up in competition or even settle very well into role player status. Examples? Kevin Love to Cleveland, Marshon Brooks as an NBA reserve. Dunn in the NBA translates to even more turnover prone with even better players around him against even better competition. That is if he's to be a point guard...


As somone from the area that watched a good amount of PC basketball I don't really agree with you. They do run a pretty set offense through their coach. Most athletic pg's like Dunn that attack the rim tend to turn the ball over, Westbrook is a good examples since there have been some comps, but I do think he can cut them down in the pros. Big Ben is a monster on the offensive boards, Providence didn't just have Dunn dishing to him every time down. Brooks is a horrible comparison, Dunn is a excellent defender, a good chunk of his points came off of transition turnovers. He can play without the ball in his hands and will get his points without a high use %.
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#244 » by HotelVitale » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:39 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote: Dunn averaged 3.5 turnovers per game and he WASN'T allowed to do his thing? He was a turnover machine even while playing with a legit NBA forward in Ben Bentil so there is no excuse that he was simply playing by himself and was trying to make the best out of a horrific situation. The ball should have never been in his hands to such a degree and people see him as an NBA point guard?... Marshon Brooks was allowed to do his thing for the same university and turned out to be a horrible complimentary NBA player.
Sure, turnovers are a weakness but they won't make or break him. His TOs per game and TO% weren't great but weren't extremely high for a drive-first PG, you can check that out on your own. And the PU offense wasn't 'do your thing, Dunn'--it was a lot of shuffling around the perimeter, very little pn'r, and it led to Dunn taking a lot of bail-out jumpers at the end of the clock. I'm not making excuses for him, and I'm not particularly high on him. But I'm not a lawyer or agent for Dunn so I'm not interested in making a case for him to someone who is more or less admitting they hate him without having seen him.

And the fact that you're still trying to make Marshon Brooks relevant is sad.
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#245 » by SelfishPlayer » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:40 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:Sorry, if you think Dunn was allowed to 'do his thing' at PU, you simply didn't watch the team last year. Very structured offense, with Dunn sharing the ball on the perimeter with two other ball-handlers/initiators, and almost no room for Dunn to just grab the ball and attack (aside from transition). He played along with that too much, and it's probably the biggest reason why it's hard to get a confident read on him now.

I don't like Dunn that much, think he'll have a hard time scoring in the NBA. But I don't understand how reasons that are this poorly though-out can lead you to any conclusion. Your points here are:
--that Dunn's coach attempted to inflate his assist rate by running set plays for him, and apparently otherwise not letting him handle the ball (which would've brought his assist rate down). Though you also insist Dunn dominated the ball.
--that Marshon Brooks, who plays a different position than Dunn and played under a totally different coach with different players, is very relevant for evaluating Kris Dunn's future because they both averaged about the same amount of TOs (and because some people overrated him coming out of college)


Dunn averaged 3.5 turnovers per game and he WASN'T allowed to do his thing? :crazy:
He was a turnover machine even while playing with a legit NBA forward in Ben Bentil so there is no excuse that he was simply playing by himself and was trying to make the best out of a horrific situation. The ball should have never been in his hands to such a degree and people see him as an NBA point guard? :noway: He's already 22 years of age for anyone that will want to try to compare him to 18-20 year olds that may have been the same sort of turnover prone "point guards" in college but developed out of it in the NBA. Marshon Brooks was allowed to do his thing for the same university and turned out to be a horrible complimentary NBA player. Dunn was a turnover machine and even played with Ben Bentil who could get drafted in the 1st round. The moral of the story is that I've seen players produce pretty well when given expanded roles but it doesn't scale up in competition or even settle very well into role player status. Examples? Kevin Love to Cleveland, Marshon Brooks as an NBA reserve. Dunn in the NBA translates to even more turnover prone with even better players around him against even better competition. That is if he's to be a point guard...


As somone from the area that watched a good amount of PC basketball I don't really agree with you. They do run a pretty set offense through their coach. Most athletic pg's like Dunn that attack the rim tend to turn the ball over, Westbrook is a good examples since there have been some comps, but I do think he can cut them down in the pros. Big Ben is a monster on the offensive boards, Providence didn't just have Dunn dishing to him every time down. Brooks is a horrible comparison, Dunn is a excellent defender, a good chunk of his points came off of transition turnovers. He can play without the ball in his hands and will get his points without a high use %.



So you're describing an Iman Shumpert/Marcus Smart type player? Or is he more special than they are simply because he hasn't stepped on an NBA court yet? He's already 22...
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#246 » by FreakMaster » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:57 am

It's hard to envision T-Wolves HC Tom Thibodeau passing up on Kris Dunn. That's probably more of a sure bet than Philly selecting Ben Simmons.
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#247 » by Snotbubbles » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:05 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Patsfan1081 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
Dunn averaged 3.5 turnovers per game and he WASN'T allowed to do his thing? :crazy:
He was a turnover machine even while playing with a legit NBA forward in Ben Bentil so there is no excuse that he was simply playing by himself and was trying to make the best out of a horrific situation. The ball should have never been in his hands to such a degree and people see him as an NBA point guard? :noway: He's already 22 years of age for anyone that will want to try to compare him to 18-20 year olds that may have been the same sort of turnover prone "point guards" in college but developed out of it in the NBA. Marshon Brooks was allowed to do his thing for the same university and turned out to be a horrible complimentary NBA player. Dunn was a turnover machine and even played with Ben Bentil who could get drafted in the 1st round. The moral of the story is that I've seen players produce pretty well when given expanded roles but it doesn't scale up in competition or even settle very well into role player status. Examples? Kevin Love to Cleveland, Marshon Brooks as an NBA reserve. Dunn in the NBA translates to even more turnover prone with even better players around him against even better competition. That is if he's to be a point guard...


As somone from the area that watched a good amount of PC basketball I don't really agree with you. They do run a pretty set offense through their coach. Most athletic pg's like Dunn that attack the rim tend to turn the ball over, Westbrook is a good examples since there have been some comps, but I do think he can cut them down in the pros. Big Ben is a monster on the offensive boards, Providence didn't just have Dunn dishing to him every time down. Brooks is a horrible comparison, Dunn is a excellent defender, a good chunk of his points came off of transition turnovers. He can play without the ball in his hands and will get his points without a high use %.



So you're describing an Iman Shumpert/Marcus Smart type player? Or is he more special than they are simply because he hasn't stepped on an NBA court yet? He's already 22...


Marcus Smart seems like a pretty decent comparison.
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#248 » by Coeur » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:29 pm

Milbuck wrote:Really hoping NOLA can get him, he and Davis would be electric.

Really? Or do you have some jrue to bucks trades?

I want him to no also. But thats with hopes of Jrue to Knicks trade
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#249 » by 51X3RF4N » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:02 pm

Settle an argument for me please, oh draft board followers...

My buddy at work is telling me that based on watching just a few minutes of Kris Dunn in his pre-draft workout, he feels Dunn is a bust, and is "just not a good basketball player". He likes Murray a lot more, and Buddy Hield too.

I feel that Dunn is much better than my friend is feeling. What does everyone think Dunn's bust potential is? What is his ceiling? Floor?

Now that we're closer to the draft, has anyone's opinions changed?

Thanks
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#250 » by PELICANSFAN » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:13 pm

Coeur wrote:
Milbuck wrote:Really hoping NOLA can get him, he and Davis would be electric.

Really? Or do you have some jrue to bucks trades?

I want him to no also. But thats with hopes of Jrue to Knicks trade

Holiday can play off the ball as well. I could see both in the backcourt together.
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#251 » by nybluemeadow » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:55 pm

I watch alot of Big East basketball. I really don't know why Dunn is getting this much hype. Maybe because its such a weak draft. But Dunn is just frustrating to watch. Not a good passer, not a good shooter, great a running and finishing the break, but his first step isn't that great and get jammed up alot when ever he tries to penetrate and forces alot of bad shots.

This kind of reminds me when Jonny Flynn got alot of hype because of his great athleticism (and poor shooting)

Dunn has poor PG skills. and is really a SG. I think Dunn is the next Jamaal Crawford. I think just like Jamaal Crawford, which ever team will draft Dunn will force him to play PG for a year or two, then find out he can't do it, then move him to shooting guard, and just like Jamaal, is better suited to be a 6th man than a starter.
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Re: Kris Dunn 

Post#252 » by Coeur » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:05 pm

PELICANSFAN wrote:
Coeur wrote:
Milbuck wrote:Really hoping NOLA can get him, he and Davis would be electric.

Really? Or do you have some jrue to bucks trades?

I want him to no also. But thats with hopes of Jrue to Knicks trade

Holiday can play off the ball as well. I could see both in the backcourt together.

I agree they could play together. Just dont want the pelicans to believe they should keep jrue if they draft dunn.

2017&2019 pick swawps, 2018 1st, calderon
for
jrue, 2nd

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