Potential sleepers

[King Ken]

I've been saying this for awhile now, And people were acting like I was crazy or something. But for my part, He does remind me of a mix of three players mostly:

1- Fred Van Vleet. His poise/ clutch shot making, etc. Strong playmaking POTENTIAL ( should he develop it fully, pesky defense ( when he's locked in, and committed).
2- Prime Deron Williams. His elite ability to penetrate/ breakdown defenses and score super efficiently around/at the rim.
3- Kyrie Irving. His burst, advanced ballhandling skills, elite isolation scoring ability too. Just very clever and crafty as an iso scorer.

I think he's a big time sleeper that projects best in the 17- 25 range of the draft.

I agree with that range but I doubt he will be a 1st rounder.

7/7.5 PG prospects usually tend to be in this range but sadly, this is a year where the PG class is insanely deep. I think he may fall to the 2nd round just due to the draft's positional depth. We saw this happen last year with the center position.

What makes you think Riller won't be a first rounder?

Elite 6th man potential with a high floor. Guys that don't have starting potential generally aren't 1st rounders in the modern NBA unless someone thinks much higher of them like Malik Monk. With so many potential starting PGs in this draft. I can see him slipping to the 2nd round with ease, to be honest. I just don't see a case where 12 PGs will be drafted in the first round.

[getrichordie]

I agree with that range but I doubt he will be a 1st rounder.

7/7.5 PG prospects usually tend to be in this range but sadly, this is a year where the PG class is insanely deep. I think he may fall to the 2nd round just due to the draft's positional depth. We saw this happen last year with the center position.

What makes you think Riller won't be a first rounder?

Elite 6th man potential with a high floor. Guys that don't have starting potential generally aren't 1st rounders in the modern NBA unless someone thinks much higher of them like Malik Monk. With so many potential starting PGs in this draft. I can see him slipping to the 2nd round with ease, to be honest. I just don't see a case where 12 PGs will be drafted in the first round.

I guess that's where I would disagree. I think Riller has a solid chance to be a starter. Just love his offensive repertoire. The elite first step. The handles. The OTD shotmaking. He can play on ball or off ball. One of the safest picks in the draft and someone who is going to give you an immediate impact. Wouldn't be shocked if his career turns out better than Cole Anthony's.

[King Ken]

What makes you think Riller won't be a first rounder?

Elite 6th man potential with a high floor. Guys that don't have starting potential generally aren't 1st rounders in the modern NBA unless someone thinks much higher of them like Malik Monk. With so many potential starting PGs in this draft. I can see him slipping to the 2nd round with ease, to be honest. I just don't see a case where 12 PGs will be drafted in the first round.

I guess that's where I would disagree. I think Riller has a solid chance to be a starter. Just love his offensive repertoire. The elite first step. The handles. The OTD shotmaking. He can play on ball or off ball. One of the safest picks in the draft and someone who is going to give you an immediate impact. Wouldn't be shocked if his career turns out better than Cole Anthony's.

I agree with the bolded. Not sure about the starter part is all. That said, once he becomes elite at it in the NBA, I can see a team giving him a chance as they did with IT0.

The issues are passing, playmaking in general, defense (all around), high TO rate. 99.99% of teams will see him as a 6th man game one and will likely stick with that notice moving forward.

7.5 potential is elite for a 6th man type like Riller. Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams are 7.5 types with 9 on offense. The starting requirements are too high for a PG to be lacking what Grant lacks at this stage.

[getrichordie]

Nikos Rogavopoulos is a guy I could see getting picked up. About 6 months older than Pokusevski. 6'8/200.

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[pad300]

Nikos Rogavopoulos is a guy I could see getting picked up. About 6 months older than Pokusevski. 6'8/200.

Watch on YouTube

Can't see him staying in with no buzz and that young.

[getrichordie]

Nikos Rogavopoulos is a guy I could see getting picked up. About 6 months older than Pokusevski. 6'8/200.

Watch on YouTube

Can't see him staying in with no buzz and that young.

Don’t have to have buzz to get drafted. I remember quite a few times where some “surprise” international names were picked late 2nd round.

[Catchall]

Carter was just better, straight up, another level as an athlete, shooter, passer, way better on D, just in terms of playing bigger (way longer) physicality, IQ, dunno, not even in the same convo really

Carey's likely a NBA pro for a while as a bench big, just not something that valuable really

Sorry, I have a hard time discounting Vernon Carey over 3 inches of wingspan. His college stats--including FG%, 3pt FG%, Rebound Rate, Steal Rate, PER, OWS, ORtg, DRtg--compare quite well to Karl Towns at UK.

He's not a high-level rim protector, due to the length issue. But that said, his freshman block and steal numbers are better than Bam Adebayo's, and no one complained about Bam being 6'10" / 260 lbs.

This kid is a 1st-round prospect. He's just way too productive to be overlooked.

[getrichordie]

Carter was just better, straight up, another level as an athlete, shooter, passer, way better on D, just in terms of playing bigger (way longer) physicality, IQ, dunno, not even in the same convo really

Carey's likely a NBA pro for a while as a bench big, just not something that valuable really

Sorry, I have a hard time discounting Vernon Carey over 3 inches of wingspan. His college stats--including FG%, 3pt FG%, Rebound Rate, Steal Rate, PER, OWS, ORtg, DRtg--compare quite well to Karl Towns at UK.

He's not a high-level rim protector, due to the length issue. But that said, his freshman block and steal numbers are better than Bam Adebayo's, and no one complained about Bam being 6'10" / 260 lbs.

This kid is a 1st-round prospect. He's just way too productive to be overlooked.

I agree with this, but don't think he is a FRP. Three inches might not seem like a lot, but ask a woman, and she will tell you different. In all seriousness, 3 inches is a big deal when it comes to wingspan. If your wingspan is longer it is usually indicative of better overall athleticism and has obvious impact on standing reach measurements and in the world's best basketball league, even inches matter. The one thing that stands out when watching Carey is his short arms when he tries to contest a shot when he's recovering or how he can be pretty easy to score over at times.

[Stillwater]

Carter was just better, straight up, another level as an athlete, shooter, passer, way better on D, just in terms of playing bigger (way longer) physicality, IQ, dunno, not even in the same convo really

Carey's likely a NBA pro for a while as a bench big, just not something that valuable really

Sorry, I have a hard time discounting Vernon Carey over 3 inches of wingspan. His college stats--including FG%, 3pt FG%, Rebound Rate, Steal Rate, PER, OWS, ORtg, DRtg--compare quite well to Karl Towns at UK.

He's not a high-level rim protector, due to the length issue. But that said, his freshman block and steal numbers are better than Bam Adebayo's, and no one complained about Bam being 6'10" / 260 lbs.

This kid is a 1st-round prospect. He's just way too productive to be overlooked.

I agree with this, but don't think he is a FRP. Three inches might not seem like a lot, but ask a woman, and she will tell you different. In all seriousness, 3 inches is a big deal when it comes to wingspan. If your wingspan is longer it is usually indicative of better overall athleticism and has obvious impact on standing reach measurements and in the world's best basketball league, even inches matter. The one thing that stands out when watching Carey is his short arms when he tries to contest a shot when he's recovering or how he can be pretty easy to score over at times.

Hes a somewhat slow 4 in the nba or a non rim protection rotation 5 early on just going by apparent meh measurements but may not be done growing. Wingspan matters more for guards with short heads trying to defend more than 1 position unless its a guy with Superstar potential on the wing as s result of ridiculous length. A extremely explosive 5 with the same length can be a solid rim protector and esp valuable if also fast enough to defrnd mid range and perimeter players.The odds he goes late first with few other as skilled offensively are pretty good but hes definitely never likely going to make a fat sister quiver.fyi ive been around enough to know not all woman parts are the same so yep size matters but not like you think young blood.

[pad300]

Nikos Rogavopoulos is a guy I could see getting picked up. About 6 months older than Pokusevski. 6'8/200.

Watch on YouTube

Can't see him staying in with no buzz and that young.

Don’t have to have buzz to get drafted. I remember quite a few times where some “surprise” international names were picked late 2nd round.

Yep, players get drafted without buzz. But players want that first round guarantee. Why would he stay in, this early is his eligibility?

[No-Man]

Rogkavopoulos is not staying in

[babyjax13]

I'm just 'scouting w/highlights' so, not scientific at all...I'm curious how differently these pairs of prospects are viewed by people?

Onyeka Okongwu v. Paul Reed
Kira Lewis v. Grant Riller
Deni Avdija v. Leandro Bolmaro

I have Onyeka and Reed as looking like a push, Riller over Kira, and a biggish but not absurd gap between Avdija and Bolmaro (not sure they end up playing the same position, obviously, but both can play some 3 and have tantalizing on-ball skills).

[getrichordie]

I'm just 'scouting w/highlights' so, not scientific at all...I'm curious how differently these pairs of prospects are viewed by people?

Onyeka Okongwu v. Paul Reed
Kira Lewis v. Grant Riller
Deni Avdija v. Leandro Bolmaro

I have Onyeka and Reed as looking like a push, Riller over Kira, and a biggish but not absurd gap between Avdija and Bolmaro (not sure they end up playing the same position, obviously, but both can play some 3 and have tantalizing on-ball skills).

When you say, "looking like a push," what do you mean? I think you are dead on about Bolmaro v. Avdija. It's a gap, but not an absurd one. Kira has more long-term potential. Riller is ready now. Kira is the better value due to age, but Riller is better value for teams who want a win-now piece.

[babyjax13]

I'm just 'scouting w/highlights' so, not scientific at all...I'm curious how differently these pairs of prospects are viewed by people?

Onyeka Okongwu v. Paul Reed
Kira Lewis v. Grant Riller
Deni Avdija v. Leandro Bolmaro

I have Onyeka and Reed as looking like a push, Riller over Kira, and a biggish but not absurd gap between Avdija and Bolmaro (not sure they end up playing the same position, obviously, but both can play some 3 and have tantalizing on-ball skills).

When you say, "looking like a push," what do you mean? I think you are dead on about Bolmaro v. Avdija. It's a gap, but not an absurd one. Kira has more long-term potential. Riller is ready now. Kira is the better value due to age, but Riller is better value for teams who want a win-now piece.

I don't see a big difference between Onyeka and Reed as prospects. Reed seems to have a bit more on offense (mainly the balls skills, I think he's a really interesting prospect) but Onyeka has a little bit more potential as a rim protector. IDK I like them both a lot.

[getrichordie]

I'm just 'scouting w/highlights' so, not scientific at all...I'm curious how differently these pairs of prospects are viewed by people?

Onyeka Okongwu v. Paul Reed
Kira Lewis v. Grant Riller
Deni Avdija v. Leandro Bolmaro

I have Onyeka and Reed as looking like a push, Riller over Kira, and a biggish but not absurd gap between Avdija and Bolmaro (not sure they end up playing the same position, obviously, but both can play some 3 and have tantalizing on-ball skills).

When you say, "looking like a push," what do you mean? I think you are dead on about Bolmaro v. Avdija. It's a gap, but not an absurd one. Kira has more long-term potential. Riller is ready now. Kira is the better value due to age, but Riller is better value for teams who want a win-now piece.

I don't see a big difference between Onyeka and Reed as prospects. Reed seems to have a bit more on offense (mainly the balls skills, I think he's a really interesting prospect) but Onyeka has a little bit more potential as a rim protector. IDK I like them both a lot.

I feel like you are comparing apples to oranges here. I don't see Okongwu as a 4 unless in maybe an older style of basketball (Spurs?). Reed is clearly a 4 who can moonlight as a 3 and play some small ball 5.

[babyjax13]

When you say, "looking like a push," what do you mean? I think you are dead on about Bolmaro v. Avdija. It's a gap, but not an absurd one. Kira has more long-term potential. Riller is ready now. Kira is the better value due to age, but Riller is better value for teams who want a win-now piece.

I don't see a big difference between Onyeka and Reed as prospects. Reed seems to have a bit more on offense (mainly the balls skills, I think he's a really interesting prospect) but Onyeka has a little bit more potential as a rim protector. IDK I like them both a lot.

I feel like you are comparing apples to oranges here. I don't see Okongwu as a 4 unless in maybe an older style of basketball (Spurs?). Reed is clearly a 4 who can moonlight as a 3 and play some small ball 5.

I think Reed's best position might be center, tbh. But if Reed does end up having that kind of positional versatility (I don't think he will play any 3), he seems like he should be drafted before Okongwu.

[getrichordie]

I don't see a big difference between Onyeka and Reed as prospects. Reed seems to have a bit more on offense (mainly the balls skills, I think he's a really interesting prospect) but Onyeka has a little bit more potential as a rim protector. IDK I like them both a lot.

I feel like you are comparing apples to oranges here. I don't see Okongwu as a 4 unless in maybe an older style of basketball (Spurs?). Reed is clearly a 4 who can moonlight as a 3 and play some small ball 5.

I think Reed's best position might be center, tbh. But if Reed does end up having that kind of positional versatility (I don't think he will play any 3), he seems like he should be drafted before Okongwu.

I mean, I've been lower on Okongwu than most due to physical limitations, but I don't think that happens. Reed has question marks about being able to bang down low. No question marks there for Okongwu. Reed would have to get a little bigger, IMO. His shot is going to require a lot of re-working if it is to get better, but I see Reed having a pretty clear path towards being a solid role player. Hit corner 3s and smother 4s and 3s and some 5s on switches. If he can knock down 34% from the corner, he's a clear starting 4.

Not sure Okongwu is a clear starting 5, tbh, so yeah, I guess I agree that they are closer than most would consider.

[getrichordie]

Did anyone actually watch Dayton this year? Can anyone tell me about Ibi Watson?

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[UcanUwill]

Kind of liking Rokas Jokubaitis. Has potential to be a nice 6'4 back up point in the league.

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Guy who embarrassed Ball in head to head match up. I am not overly optimistic with him, but he is worthy of late second rounder, will be disappointed if he is not drafted. Drafting him you would expect Beno Udrih caliber pick up.

[No-Man]

I think Rokas could be worth a late 1st but I don't think he stays in this year's draft