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With multiple mock drafts putting him in Denver's range, I've been trying to read about more about him and I really am not finding anything impressive.

At this point, his draft stocks is based on almost all potential right now due to his physical attributes.

But otherwise:
- Poor feel for the game.
- No outside/FT shooting.
- GOOD at getting to the basket, POOR at finishing.
- Below average defender but has potential to be a very good defender.

Anyhow someone help me find something good about him.

Yep with everything you said. Even though he has a poor feel for the game, he makes a few good passes. His biggest attributes are his size (could potentially guard 4 positions) and his athleticism (that is overrated). The thing people love about him is his ability to get to the basket since not a lot of guys his size can do that and most of those guys become good players. The issue is his free throw shooting/shooting in general, which everyone is always iffy about because it really depends on how strong his muscle memory is and how adaptable he is (these are hard things to measure).
I personally see bust written all over him offensively, but his defense should keep him in games and give himself the opportunity to improve. I think he's going to be at least a solid player. If I were picking and this were a deeper draft, he would be picked after the lotto.

He's potential right now. I don't know if I'd say he's got a bad feel for the game, more that he's got bad decision making (although you can argue they're similar enough either way). Good at driving, bad at shooting, hasn't learnt how to finish yet and his defence comes and goes.

I'd pass personally. Right now he's in the Stanley Johnson/Justice Winslow range and he's leagues away from either as a prospect. Goes to show how weak this draft is I suppose.

His basement is Jae Crowder, who was just below and all star this year.

Brown is quicker and more explosive than Winslow and Stanley. At the next level with all the extra space he's going to get to the rim, and the ft line, at will.

"Poor feel for the game" and "below average defender" are inaccurate. He's already a good defender, and he just needs to cut down on his turnovers.

Envelope wrote:Brown is quicker and more explosive than Winslow and Stanley. At the next level with all the extra space he's going to get to the rim, and the ft line, at will.

"Poor feel for the game" and "below average defender" are inaccurate. He's already a good defender, and he just needs to cut down on his turnovers.

Stanley is slow and not explosive at all, so I get that and Winslow is just as explosive as Brown, but he's also quicker. He's an average defender IMO right now. The issue is that if he gets to the rim in the NBA, does he convert? Can't seem to do that right now. And if he can continuously get to line, can he make his free throws? I actually think both Brown and Winslow have similar upside even if they're different physically.

Reminds me of James Johnson. I think he'll endup a specialist off the bench

I'm not a big fan either OP. His whole game is basically relying on his quickness to blow by people, but his handle isn't even that advanced. Pair that with his poor vision and he's a turnover machine. The fact that he can't shoot hurts a ton.

On defense, sure he's got great athleticism, but great defenders show it on the court with their instincts and effort pretty much always- everyone was talking about how Andrew Wiggins' athleticism meant that he'd be a good defender when he was nothing special at Kansas, and low and behold he's nothing special in the NBA on defense. Don't think that I'm saying Brown isn't a pretty solid defender- he's above average from what I can tell (not on the West coast), but I wouldn't expect Tony Allen out of him.

Given how raw he is on offense, I'd say he's bottom-lottery type, likely bust.

Notanoob wrote:I'm not a big fan either OP. His whole game is basically relying on his quickness to blow by people, but his handle isn't even that advanced. Pair that with his poor vision and he's a turnover machine. The fact that he can't shoot hurts a ton.

On defense, sure he's got great athleticism, but great defenders show it on the court with their instincts and effort pretty much always- everyone was talking about how Andrew Wiggins' athleticism meant that he'd be a good defender when he was nothing special at Kansas, and low and behold he's nothing special in the NBA on defense. Don't think that I'm saying Brown isn't a pretty solid defender- he's above average from what I can tell (not on the West coast), but I wouldn't expect Tony Allen out of him.

Given how raw he is on offense, I'd say he's bottom-lottery type, likely bust.

Brown doesn't just rely on his quickness. His quickness + strength is an elite combo. He's 225 of muscle and explosive athleticism. And he's only getting stronger. He'll be like DWade or Harden but at SF, as far as using elite quickness and strength to get to the rim and live at the FT line.

Wiggins sucks at defense because he doesn't play with heart or intensity on defense. That's not Brown at all. Brown plays hard, and is a great defender. And Brown has a lot more strength than Wiggins, who is about 20-25 lbs weaker. Strength plays a big role in defense, and Wiggins doesn't have any. And Wiggins likes it that way, or he'd follow team orders and start lifting weights. Instead he refuses to, because he wants to stay at SG where he can be a pussy.

Brown needs to learn how to play within the flow of an offense, most of his scoring came unassisted and he relies on bulllyball putting his head down and barreling into defenders instead of taking what they give him, he won't get to the charity stripe at will in the NBA. He has a better handle than either Winslow/Stanimal and can create for himself using a jab step in isolation, he almost exclusively goes left. He's an absolute freight train in transiton with a head of steam. His developmental upside is through the roof, would be steal outside the Top 5 where teams want to roll the dice rather than play it safe. If he develops a running floater that will make up a little for his lack of a faceup game, he can already exploit mismatches and post up smaller players

Brown has an amazing combination of quickness, strength, hops, body control and ball handling ability. That makes him a very smooth player and a force going to the rim. Right now his IQ is not very developed and his shot is poor but if he can figure it out he could reach superstar level. Those are big ifs though.

I like him but it really depends which team drafts him. If he'll have solid vets to bring him along he could become special.

Envelope wrote:His basement is Jae Crowder, who was just below and all star this year.

No one outside of elite, once-every-couple-years prospects have a basement of 'borderline all star.' Tim Duncan for example had the basement, since he barely needed to improve at all to get there. 'Basement' means the very worst outcome, I think you mean something closer 'the worst case scenario if he still develops at a slightly better-than-average rate than most prospects do.'

Crowder for instance developed extremely well and has improved impressively to get where he's at. So he's already at maybe the 85th or 90th percentile for prospects. If Brown can learn to shoot a lot better than he does now, play nearly perfect defense (in terms of rotation, timing, etc), and contribute much better team offense then he has a chance to be as good as Crowder is now. He's starting out as the better athlete and transition player, worse in every other aspect of the game. For reference, Brown's offensive rating was like 25% lower than Crowder's was either of his two years at Marquette (Brown's 98.4 vs Crowder's 124.5/15.7).

I really hope someone falls in love with him before the Wolves, as I have zero interest in him. Each time I watched him he was a trainwreck waiting to happen. No feel for the game at all, just an athletic, physical specimen.

HotelVitale wrote:

Envelope wrote:His basement is Jae Crowder, who was just below and all star this year.

No one outside of elite, once-every-couple-years prospects have a basement of 'borderline all star.' Tim Duncan for example had the basement, since he barely needed to improve at all to get there. 'Basement' means the very worst outcome, I think you mean something closer 'the worst case scenario if he still develops at a slightly better-than-average rate than most prospects do.'

Crowder for instance developed extremely well and has improved impressively to get where he's at. So he's already at maybe the 85th or 90th percentile for prospects. If Brown can learn to shoot a lot better than he does now, play nearly perfect defense (in terms of rotation, timing, etc), and contribute much better team offense then he has a chance to be as good as Crowder is now. He's starting out as the better athlete and transition player, worse in every other aspect of the game. For reference, Brown's offensive rating was like 25% lower than Crowder's was either of his two years at Marquette (Brown's 98.4 vs Crowder's 124.5/15.7).

Brown is smart, humble, and a hard worker. If he was arrogant, like Ben Simmons, or immature, like DRussell, or very low self-esteem, like Perry Jones, or lazy, like a lot of players, there would be less certainty about Jaylen Brown developing more in the NBA.
But when a player is smart, humble, hard working, and gifted with absolutely elite tools, there's just little question about their basement being high.

People don't pay any attention to these intangibles, and that's why they misjudge players so often that they start insisting there's no way to know how they'll develop in the future.

If people paid more attention to "little" things like intelligence, maturity, humility, and work ethic, there would be a lot less draft mistakes.

Stanley Johnson, Winslow, RHJefferson, Powell, these guys all had/have great intangibles, along with their elite bodies and athleticism.

Neither Jaylen Brown nor Jae Crowder are great passers or have exceptional shooting talent. But they're both hard working, humble, intelligent, and mature. And Brown has much better explosive athleticism than Crowder. He also has significantly better standing reach. Crowder's a great defender, but his low standing reach costs him regularly, and he can be scored over regularly. Brown's longer arms and higher standing reach will allow him to contest and block more shots, and get in more passing lanes (he already has great instincts here). His superior athleticism/jumping will also allow him to block and contest more shots than Crowder is able to do.

The explosiveness will also make it easier for Brown to get his shot off around the rim and everywhere else for that matter.

So Brown will be able to be a less talented defender than Crowder, but still make similar impact because of his superior length, quickness, and athleticism. He's a safe bet to be a plus defender in the NBA.

And offensively, Brown's 3 point shot can lag and he can still be as good offensively as Crowder, because of his superior quickness, athleticism, ball handling, and juke instincts.

I watch Crowder every single game, from the day he showed up from Dallas last year. Jaylen Brown can do what Crowder does, easily, with a couple years in the league. And his upside is an all star or MVP candidate version of Crowder. And Brown won't need to be a great passer to be that level of player.

Envelope wrote:

HotelVitale wrote:

Envelope wrote:His basement is Jae Crowder, who was just below and all star this year.

No one outside of elite, once-every-couple-years prospects have a basement of 'borderline all star.' Tim Duncan for example had the basement, since he barely needed to improve at all to get there. 'Basement' means the very worst outcome, I think you mean something closer 'the worst case scenario if he still develops at a slightly better-than-average rate than most prospects do.'

Crowder for instance developed extremely well and has improved impressively to get where he's at. So he's already at maybe the 85th or 90th percentile for prospects. If Brown can learn to shoot a lot better than he does now, play nearly perfect defense (in terms of rotation, timing, etc), and contribute much better team offense then he has a chance to be as good as Crowder is now. He's starting out as the better athlete and transition player, worse in every other aspect of the game. For reference, Brown's offensive rating was like 25% lower than Crowder's was either of his two years at Marquette (Brown's 98.4 vs Crowder's 124.5/15.7).

Brown is smart, humble, and a hard worker. If he was arrogant, like Ben Simmons, or immature, like DRussell, or very low self-esteem, like Perry Jones, or lazy, like a lot of players, there would be less certainty about Jaylen Brown developing more in the NBA.
But when a player is smart, humble, hard working, and gifted with absolutely elite tools, there's just little question about their basement being high.

People don't pay any attention to these intangibles, and that's why they misjudge players so often that they start insisting there's no way to know how they'll develop in the future.

If people paid more attention to "little" things like intelligence, maturity, humility, and work ethic, there would be a lot less draft mistakes.

Stanley Johnson, Winslow, RHJefferson, Powell, these guys all had/have great intangibles, along with their elite bodies and athleticism.

Neither Jaylen Brown nor Jae Crowder are great passers or have exceptional shooting talent. But they're both hard working, humble, intelligent, and mature. And Brown has much better explosive athleticism than Crowder. He also has significantly better standing reach. Crowder's a great defender, but his low standing reach costs him regularly, and he can be scored over regularly. Brown's longer arms and higher standing reach will allow him to contest and block more shots, and get in more passing lanes (he already has great instincts here). His superior athleticism/jumping will also allow him to block and contest more shots than Crowder is able to do.

The explosiveness will also make it easier for Brown to get his shot off around the rim and everywhere else for that matter.

So Brown will be able to be a less talented defender than Crowder, but still make similar impact because of his superior length, quickness, and athleticism. He's a safe bet to be a plus defender in the NBA.

And offensively, Brown's 3 point shot can lag and he can still be as good offensively as Crowder, because of his superior quickness, athleticism, ball handling, and juke instincts.

I watch Crowder every single game, from the day he showed up from Dallas last year. Jaylen Brown can do what Crowder does, easily, with a couple years in the league. And his upside is an all star or MVP candidate version of Crowder. And Brown won't need to be a great passer to be that level of player.

1. Players fail a lot of the time with elite tools and the intangibles. Raw players that don't develop are pretty much all of them. I think the fact that he's still so young and only had a year in college means he can only trend upward. I think it's unlikely he busts for that reason. He's going to have a lot of chances to make something of himself.

2. Ben Simmons is not "immature." I dont even know where you're getting this from. If anything, this means you're way too judgmental and quick to jump on things that aren't there.

3. The only thing that matters is intelligence. The thing is that everyone's brain develops differently. You can have a high work ethic, but if you can't develop and start putting two and two together, you'll never get better. It takes a really rare player to improve that much (Brown has a lot for work to do).

4. "Stanley Johnson, Winslow, RHJefferson, Powell, these guys all had/have great intangibles, along with their elite bodies and athleticism. "

Those guys were a lot more skilled.

5. Literally all you talk about is his explosiveness when he doesn't have an elite explosion.

doordoor123 wrote:

Envelope wrote:

HotelVitale wrote:
No one outside of elite, once-every-couple-years prospects have a basement of 'borderline all star.' Tim Duncan for example had the basement, since he barely needed to improve at all to get there. 'Basement' means the very worst outcome, I think you mean something closer 'the worst case scenario if he still develops at a slightly better-than-average rate than most prospects do.'

Crowder for instance developed extremely well and has improved impressively to get where he's at. So he's already at maybe the 85th or 90th percentile for prospects. If Brown can learn to shoot a lot better than he does now, play nearly perfect defense (in terms of rotation, timing, etc), and contribute much better team offense then he has a chance to be as good as Crowder is now. He's starting out as the better athlete and transition player, worse in every other aspect of the game. For reference, Brown's offensive rating was like 25% lower than Crowder's was either of his two years at Marquette (Brown's 98.4 vs Crowder's 124.5/15.7).

Brown is smart, humble, and a hard worker. If he was arrogant, like Ben Simmons, or immature, like DRussell, or very low self-esteem, like Perry Jones, or lazy, like a lot of players, there would be less certainty about Jaylen Brown developing more in the NBA.
But when a player is smart, humble, hard working, and gifted with absolutely elite tools, there's just little question about their basement being high.

People don't pay any attention to these intangibles, and that's why they misjudge players so often that they start insisting there's no way to know how they'll develop in the future.

If people paid more attention to "little" things like intelligence, maturity, humility, and work ethic, there would be a lot less draft mistakes.

Stanley Johnson, Winslow, RHJefferson, Powell, these guys all had/have great intangibles, along with their elite bodies and athleticism.

Neither Jaylen Brown nor Jae Crowder are great passers or have exceptional shooting talent. But they're both hard working, humble, intelligent, and mature. And Brown has much better explosive athleticism than Crowder. He also has significantly better standing reach. Crowder's a great defender, but his low standing reach costs him regularly, and he can be scored over regularly. Brown's longer arms and higher standing reach will allow him to contest and block more shots, and get in more passing lanes (he already has great instincts here). His superior athleticism/jumping will also allow him to block and contest more shots than Crowder is able to do.

The explosiveness will also make it easier for Brown to get his shot off around the rim and everywhere else for that matter.

So Brown will be able to be a less talented defender than Crowder, but still make similar impact because of his superior length, quickness, and athleticism. He's a safe bet to be a plus defender in the NBA.

And offensively, Brown's 3 point shot can lag and he can still be as good offensively as Crowder, because of his superior quickness, athleticism, ball handling, and juke instincts.

I watch Crowder every single game, from the day he showed up from Dallas last year. Jaylen Brown can do what Crowder does, easily, with a couple years in the league. And his upside is an all star or MVP candidate version of Crowder. And Brown won't need to be a great passer to be that level of player.

1. Players fail a lot of the time with elite tools and the intangibles. Raw players that don't develop are pretty much all of them. I think the fact that he's still so young and only had a year in college means he can only trend upward. I think it's unlikely he busts for that reason. He's going to have a lot of chances to make something of himself.

2. Ben Simmons is not "immature." I dont even know where you're getting this from. If anything, this means you're way too judgmental and quick to jump on things that aren't there.

3. The only thing that matters is intelligence. The thing is that everyone's brain develops differently. You can have a high work ethic, but if you can't develop and start putting two and two together, you'll never get better. It takes a really rare player to improve that much (Brown has a lot for work to do).

4. "Stanley Johnson, Winslow, RHJefferson, Powell, these guys all had/have great intangibles, along with their elite bodies and athleticism. "

Those guys were a lot more skilled.

5. Literally all you talk about is his explosiveness when he doesn't have an elite explosion.

I believe he referred to Simmons as arrogant and DRussell as immature....don't know of the Simmons thing but I can agree with the DRussell thing for sure !

doordoor123 wrote:

Envelope wrote:

HotelVitale wrote:
No one outside of elite, once-every-couple-years prospects have a basement of 'borderline all star.' Tim Duncan for example had the basement, since he barely needed to improve at all to get there. 'Basement' means the very worst outcome, I think you mean something closer 'the worst case scenario if he still develops at a slightly better-than-average rate than most prospects do.'

Crowder for instance developed extremely well and has improved impressively to get where he's at. So he's already at maybe the 85th or 90th percentile for prospects. If Brown can learn to shoot a lot better than he does now, play nearly perfect defense (in terms of rotation, timing, etc), and contribute much better team offense then he has a chance to be as good as Crowder is now. He's starting out as the better athlete and transition player, worse in every other aspect of the game. For reference, Brown's offensive rating was like 25% lower than Crowder's was either of his two years at Marquette (Brown's 98.4 vs Crowder's 124.5/15.7).

Brown is smart, humble, and a hard worker. If he was arrogant, like Ben Simmons, or immature, like DRussell, or very low self-esteem, like Perry Jones, or lazy, like a lot of players, there would be less certainty about Jaylen Brown developing more in the NBA.
But when a player is smart, humble, hard working, and gifted with absolutely elite tools, there's just little question about their basement being high.

People don't pay any attention to these intangibles, and that's why they misjudge players so often that they start insisting there's no way to know how they'll develop in the future.

If people paid more attention to "little" things like intelligence, maturity, humility, and work ethic, there would be a lot less draft mistakes.

Stanley Johnson, Winslow, RHJefferson, Powell, these guys all had/have great intangibles, along with their elite bodies and athleticism.

Neither Jaylen Brown nor Jae Crowder are great passers or have exceptional shooting talent. But they're both hard working, humble, intelligent, and mature. And Brown has much better explosive athleticism than Crowder. He also has significantly better standing reach. Crowder's a great defender, but his low standing reach costs him regularly, and he can be scored over regularly. Brown's longer arms and higher standing reach will allow him to contest and block more shots, and get in more passing lanes (he already has great instincts here). His superior athleticism/jumping will also allow him to block and contest more shots than Crowder is able to do.

The explosiveness will also make it easier for Brown to get his shot off around the rim and everywhere else for that matter.

So Brown will be able to be a less talented defender than Crowder, but still make similar impact because of his superior length, quickness, and athleticism. He's a safe bet to be a plus defender in the NBA.

And offensively, Brown's 3 point shot can lag and he can still be as good offensively as Crowder, because of his superior quickness, athleticism, ball handling, and juke instincts.

I watch Crowder every single game, from the day he showed up from Dallas last year. Jaylen Brown can do what Crowder does, easily, with a couple years in the league. And his upside is an all star or MVP candidate version of Crowder. And Brown won't need to be a great passer to be that level of player.

1. Players fail a lot of the time with elite tools and the intangibles. Raw players that don't develop are pretty much all of them. I think the fact that he's still so young and only had a year in college means he can only trend upward. I think it's unlikely he busts for that reason. He's going to have a lot of chances to make something of himself.

2. Ben Simmons is not "immature." I dont even know where you're getting this from. If anything, this means you're way too judgmental and quick to jump on things that aren't there.

3. The only thing that matters is intelligence. The thing is that everyone's brain develops differently. You can have a high work ethic, but if you can't develop and start putting two and two together, you'll never get better. It takes a really rare player to improve that much (Brown has a lot for work to do).

4. "Stanley Johnson, Winslow, RHJefferson, Powell, these guys all had/have great intangibles, along with their elite bodies and athleticism. "

Those guys were a lot more skilled.

5. Literally all you talk about is his explosiveness when he doesn't have an elite explosion.

you didn't read carefully: "or immature, like DRussell," Russell immature, not Simmons

Envelope wrote: Brown is smart, humble, and a hard worker. If he was arrogant, like Ben Simmons, or immature, like DRussell, or very low self-esteem, like Perry Jones, or lazy, like a lot of players, there would be less certainty about Jaylen Brown developing more in the NBA. But when a player is smart, humble, hard working, and gifted with absolutely elite tools, there's just little question about their basement being high.

If it were only that simple. You listed one example of a player who didn't reach his ceiling (PJIII) for a particular mental reason, but anyone can give you three dozen more who failed to become stars for the simple fact that NBA basketball is really really hard to excel at. Jerryd Bayless, Brandon Rush, Jeff Green, Jordan Hill, Al Aminu, Ekpe Udoh, etc. There's nothing 'wrong' with any of those guys and they were all great athletes who all improved a ton over their NBA careers. They were/are all decent players with okay heads on their shoulders, there's just a huge gap between being good enough to play some in the league and being a star--and that gap is where like 93% of guys with NBA bodies, athleticism, and/or skills end up. You don't just need to be a nice, smart kid with a good body and decent all-around skills to become an all-star.

Jeff Green lacks passion for the game. Multiple reports out of the Memphis locker room this year that "Green has no heart".

I watched Green play every game in Boston. 5 out of 6 nights he showed no aggression, and when he did, he'd have a huge night.

Brown seems to be aggressive every game, maybe even every possession. You guys are talking about him just putting his head down and attacking the rim like it's a bad thing, but a lot of guys like Jeff Green never had enough heart and aggression to do it regularly.

You're also confusing "good body" with Jaylen Brown's Aaron Gordon level body and athleticism. Brown's strength and athleticism are so rare that it's hard to find a great NBA comparison at his size, present day or historically.

Envelope wrote:His basement is Jae Crowder, who was just below and all star this year.

Wow! Basement, Jae Crowder? Come on now. Jae is one of the better SF's in the NBA. I would say top 15 and you would say someone who is as raw as Brown has the same floor is pretty much a far reach.

I see him as a very high risk-reward player. Think McLemore.