Tyler Ulis

[RationalGaze]

He may not have played against 1 starting level nba point guard the entire year. Its college, not the NBA. The only one whom is even being considered in the 1st round is Baldwin. I am definitely on the skeptics side. He is less athletic than others that have played at his height and he is significantly smaller at 149lbs as well. I don't see it.

Neither did Kris Dunn unless you think Valentine is a point guard. Everyone knows it's college competition, but that doesn't discredit what the players do. College is the next step then the Nba. Ulis has quickness and speed that he has in full control. He doesn't explode to the basket, but the other 2 attributes will help him out constantly.
If anyone watched Baldwin you'd see easily he's not first round talent, but people love to forget what someone did in a season and just bring out the measuring stick. Lol players might as well skip college ball all together and get paid internationally. Ulis flat out balls and Baldwin doesn't.

If one guy is arguing he doesn't believe a guy in college is going to be able to guard a NBA level point guard with his height, size, and athleticism and you point towards him guarding college kids that really doesn't help your case. TThe people he was playing against wont be in the league becasue they are not good enough and the defenses are different at the college level. Everything is stacked against him. There is not 1 player that size in the league. Not 1.

It's perspective given Ulis is a smaller dude and he should have been an easy target for College coaches, but it turns out that size didn't play a factor against Ulis. People are arguing that he won't be able to handle himself against size when he did it all last season playing heavy minutes running the offense and defending well.
The only thing stacked against him are uninformed people who didn't watch him play. You ripped on the kid not being a defender when everyone who watched Ulis saw he's quite the defender. It's quite obvious on the offensive end Ulis was the driving force for Kentucky as well.

[RationalGaze]

That's great that he can win defensive awards against college players, but point guard is the premier position in the NBA. He just isn't going to be able to match up with the physicality of the point guards in the league right now unless he packs on at least a solid 20 pounds. I liked Ulis in college and think he has the skill to have a role on a NBA team, but there's no way he's going to see the court when he's going to be guarding an NBA-caliber point guard that is 5 inches taller and 50+ pounds heavier than him.

Yeah it's pretty neat that a guy goes to a premiere college and where all the high school talent across the country gets condensed and still dominates the bigger competition at a higher level making difficult plays look easy every game. Kid defended awfully well against competition he's not supposed to and did it better than anyone else in the conference.
The kid puts on 20lbs of muscle and then what? He can all of a sudden do the things he's doing now? The muscle addition is going to help him with the Nba grind, but he can play for any open position until he gets the muscle added over the course of 24 months to ease anyone with thoughts of durability issues that might rise up.
Dragan, Ingram, Furkan, and Poeltl need more muscle, but are those guys just role players in the meantime? They can play regardless of their current weight as I see it and with more muscle an even higher level.

Yeah because outside of Kentucky, the SEC is just filled to the brim with NBA talent these days right?

He puts on at least 20 pounds of muscle and he isn't going to be a rag doll on defense. You can act like size doesn't matter all you want, but it does. Point guards these days can just take him down in the post and go to work on him, he won't be able to do anything about it when they have at least 40 pounds on him and can just go right over the top of him. He needs to be a lot stronger to be able to compete against grown ass men at the deepest, most talented position in the league. Just about every single player he goes up against is going to be MUCH better, stronger, and faster than any of the point guards he went up against in the SEC. Every position on the court physically dominates him top to bottom, he's a defensive liability no matter what. There's a chance that he comes into the league as the least physically mature player in the entire league.

I don't get how you can compare Ulis's situation with Bender, Ingram, Korkmaz, or Poeltl. They are all players that are going to be able to compensate for their low weight with their height and length, which pretty obviously not a strength of Ulis.

Idk it did have Simmons and Baldwin in the conference. Had Qualls, Martin, and Mickey last year as well as the Kentucky team. Why don't you go ask those players how good Ulis is? I'm sure they'll vouch for him.
No conference is filled with Nba talent. You go from High School to College to Nba and those are the steps usually. You pass the first 2 with flying colors and you'll be drafted in the first round.

I'm comparing, because you stated that Ulis will be treated like a rag doll. How do you think Ingram is going to fair since he's the player that needs 40lbs of muscle? How are the players I mentioned going to compensate when opposing players can go right through them? They need weight so I guess they should be on the bench until they put on weight? Maybe they're Nba players themselves just like Ulis and that's what actually matters. Such a revelation.

[darealjuice]

Idk it did have Simmons and Baldwin in the conference. Had Qualls, Martin, and Mickey last year as well as the Kentucky team. Why don't you go ask those players how good Ulis is? I'm sure they'll vouch for him.
No conference is filled with Nba talent. You go from High School to College to Nba and those are the steps usually. You pass the first 2 with flying colors and you'll be drafted in the first round.

I'm comparing, because you stated that Ulis will be treated like a rag doll. How do you think Ingram is going to fair since he's the player that needs 40lbs of muscle? How are the players I mentioned going to compensate when opposing players can go right through them? They need weight so I guess they should be on the bench until they put on weight? Maybe they're Nba players themselves just like Ulis and that's what actually matters. Such a revelation.

You compared them to him before I said he'd be a rag doll, but alright. Ingram is going to fair poorly against players that try to muscle him that are more physical than him if he doesn't put on weight, I never said he wouldn't. But he, and every single one of your other examples, has height and length at their position to partially compensate for that weakness. I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand that the players Ulis is going to be defending are the best players at the best position in the league, and that they're all significantly taller, stronger, and more physical than him while being at least equally skilled and athletic. He's at a physical disadvantage against every player on the floor, and it's going to be exploited. You can dance around it and talk about other players being skinny too all you want, but that's reality. Players who are liabilities on the defensive end don't get playing time, which is why he needs to get a lot stronger so he can match up physically. I have no doubt he's skilled enough to run an offense and be in the NBA, I saw him play more than enough at Kentucky, but the physicality of the NBA is another level and he is undeniably at a disadvantage on defense, even if he was able to overcome it in college.

But by all means, you can continue being condescending and pretend you're some sort of expert who knows more than everyone else because they disagree on your opinion that a 5' 10", 150 pound point guard is going to be a successful starter in the NBA.

[RationalGaze]

Idk it did have Simmons and Baldwin in the conference. Had Qualls, Martin, and Mickey last year as well as the Kentucky team. Why don't you go ask those players how good Ulis is? I'm sure they'll vouch for him.
No conference is filled with Nba talent. You go from High School to College to Nba and those are the steps usually. You pass the first 2 with flying colors and you'll be drafted in the first round.

I'm comparing, because you stated that Ulis will be treated like a rag doll. How do you think Ingram is going to fair since he's the player that needs 40lbs of muscle? How are the players I mentioned going to compensate when opposing players can go right through them? They need weight so I guess they should be on the bench until they put on weight? Maybe they're Nba players themselves just like Ulis and that's what actually matters. Such a revelation.

You compared them to him before I said he'd be a rag doll, but alright. Ingram is going to fair poorly against players that try to muscle him that are more physical than him if he doesn't put on weight, I never said he wouldn't. But he, and every single one of your other examples, has height and length at their position to partially compensate for that weakness. I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand that the players Ulis is going to be defending are the best players at the best position in the league, and that they're all significantly taller, stronger, and more physical than him while being at least equally skilled and athletic. He's at a physical disadvantage against every player on the floor, and it's going to be exploited. You can dance around it and talk about other players being skinny too all you want, but that's reality. Players who are liabilities on the defensive end don't get playing time, which is why he needs to get a lot stronger so he can match up physically. I have no doubt he's skilled enough to run an offense and be in the NBA, I saw him play more than enough at Kentucky, but the physicality of the NBA is another level and he is undeniably at a disadvantage on defense, even if he was able to overcome it in college.

But by all means, you can continue being condescending and pretend you're some sort of expert who knows more than everyone else because they disagree on your opinion that a 5' 10", 150 pound point guard is going to be a successful starter in the NBA.

I figured you would be able to pick up on players not needing their prime weight right away and excel to a degree. All players have strengths and weaknesses coming into the league, but they can still play just like everyone else.
How am I being condescending? You're the one who sarcastically pointed out that it was great of Ulis to win the Sec defensive player of the year award. Everyone knows that if you're lacking 20lbs of muscle then you'll need to put it on at some point. I've stated several times that Ulis needs to be around 170 for his future, but in the meantime he can still play and with more weight he'll play at a higher level. The point position is more about skill and control than it is physical unless you're game is centered around being a bull.

[Cuban Pete]

I have faith in Tyler Ulis being able to hold his ground against bigger competition. But I had that same faith with Trey Burke.

In my opinion, it has to do with the team fit. I do not really see him as a second rounder, and Philly having 2 picks late in the first round worries me. I don't want him in Philly but he's gonna get good opportunities there.

Anyways, I always thought of Ulis as someone who can make the same impact as Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf.

Trey Burke wasn't as quick or as long as Ulis. Ulis is also a lot smarter than Burke was with the ball. I honestly can't remember the last player that controlled the game so well in college.

Just to add, Ulis is a superior FT shooter. .846 in his 2-year career compared to .777 in Burke's 2 years at Michigan.

In contrast, Burke was better in DRB and Block rates.

All of the other relevant numbers are nearly the same, including Assist, TO, and Steal Rates.

The underlined comment WBD at the combine. The bold comment is subjective.

[EMG518]

Neither did Kris Dunn unless you think Valentine is a point guard. Everyone knows it's college competition, but that doesn't discredit what the players do. College is the next step then the Nba. Ulis has quickness and speed that he has in full control. He doesn't explode to the basket, but the other 2 attributes will help him out constantly.
If anyone watched Baldwin you'd see easily he's not first round talent, but people love to forget what someone did in a season and just bring out the measuring stick. Lol players might as well skip college ball all together and get paid internationally. Ulis flat out balls and Baldwin doesn't.

If one guy is arguing he doesn't believe a guy in college is going to be able to guard a NBA level point guard with his height, size, and athleticism and you point towards him guarding college kids that really doesn't help your case. TThe people he was playing against wont be in the league becasue they are not good enough and the defenses are different at the college level. Everything is stacked against him. There is not 1 player that size in the league. Not 1.

It's perspective given Ulis is a smaller dude and he should have been an easy target for College coaches, but it turns out that size didn't play a factor against Ulis. People are arguing that he won't be able to handle himself against size when he did it all last season playing heavy minutes running the offense and defending well.
The only thing stacked against him are uninformed people who didn't watch him play. You ripped on the kid not being a defender when everyone who watched Ulis saw he's quite the defender. It's quite obvious on the offensive end Ulis was the driving force for Kentucky as well.

OK, you go ahead and keep pointing towards him guarding college kids. Like I already said it really doesn't prove anything to me because my concerns for him were not for the college level but the NBA level. You can't seem to separate the two.

[RationalGaze]

If one guy is arguing he doesn't believe a guy in college is going to be able to guard a NBA level point guard with his height, size, and athleticism and you point towards him guarding college kids that really doesn't help your case. TThe people he was playing against wont be in the league becasue they are not good enough and the defenses are different at the college level. Everything is stacked against him. There is not 1 player that size in the league. Not 1.

It's perspective given Ulis is a smaller dude and he should have been an easy target for College coaches, but it turns out that size didn't play a factor against Ulis. People are arguing that he won't be able to handle himself against size when he did it all last season playing heavy minutes running the offense and defending well.
The only thing stacked against him are uninformed people who didn't watch him play. You ripped on the kid not being a defender when everyone who watched Ulis saw he's quite the defender. It's quite obvious on the offensive end Ulis was the driving force for Kentucky as well.

OK, you go ahead and keep pointing towards him guarding college kids. Like I already said it really doesn't prove anything to me because my concerns for him were not for the college level but the NBA level. You can't seem to separate the two.

I can separate the 2, but people need to quit relying on size as a reason when judging Ulis. People are crowning Baldwin based soley on measures and not play as an example. He's done nothing to prove he'll be a starter other than his physical build.

Let's look at some starters throughout the league
Boston - Isaiah Thomas 5'9" 185 27 years old
Toronto Raptors - Kyle Lowy 6'0" 205 30 years old
Chicago Bulls - Derrick Rose 6'3" 190 27 years old
Cleveland Cavaliers - Kyrie Irving 6'3" 194 24 years old
Detroit Pistons - Reggie Jackson 6'3" 208 26 years old
Indiana Pacers - George Hill 6'3" 188 30 years old
Atlanta - Dennis Schroeder 6'1" 172 22 years old
Charlotte - Kemba Walker 6'1" 184 26 years old
Miami - Goran Dragic 6'3" 190 30 years old
Orlando - Elfrid Payton 6'4" 185 22 years old
Washington - John Wall 6'4" 195 25 years old
Golden Stater Warriors Stephen Curry 6'3" 190 28 years old
Los Angeles Clippers Chris Paul 6'0" 175 31 years old
Phoenix Suns - Eric Bledsoe 6'1" 190 26 years old
Denver Nuggets - Emmanuel Mudiay 6'5" 200 20 years old
Minnesota Timberwolves - Ricky Rubio 6'4" 194 25 years old
Oklahoma City Thunder - Russell Westbrook 6'3" 200 27 years old
Portland Trail Blazers - Damian Lillard 6'3" 195 25 years old

Those are the premier Nba Point Guards and there are 18 of them. That leaves 12 teams open for a point and to acquire one this free agency or draft. Mike Conley and Rondo being 2 available, but Rondo sorta lives in his own world. We'll see about Teague.
Which of these guys are tier defenders? Rubio, Paul, Wall, Lowry, Conley, and Bledsoe? Why should Ulis be held to a standard that most premier points guards aren't held to? Even then the guys I mentioned get scored upon.
More of these points guards have quickness and speed like Ulis. Few of them have his level of Floor General with Rubio, Wall, and Paul being the current players with better vision since they're more used to the Nba.
Ulis puts on 20lbs of muscle and he'll hold himself even better against these guys and be an even better defender than some since those guys aren't exactly wowing anyone with their defense even though they have the size.

[tedwilliams1999]

You kind of have to rely on size as a reason to judge Ulis though; if it weren't for his size, he'd be a top 3 pick with his skill-set. My thing with him is that putting on 20 pounds of muscle over the course of one off season is incredibly difficult. He's going to be playing basketball every day, burning so many calories that he'll need to eat a crap ton of food just to break even. It might take a few years for him to get 20-30 pounds heavier and stronger.

If he stays at 150 pounds like he is now, he's going to get demolished. All of those point guards you mentioned have the size necessary to at least hold their own when the opposing teams force switches. Ulis would be giving up 80+ pounds to most of the big guys in the NBA. With that kind of disadvantage, even some one like Omir Asik would be able to score every single time.