2018 NBA Draft

[Justwar]

Rim protection is kinda overrated. Team defense, ability of all 5 to switch is more important.

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[anthony00]

Rim protection is kinda overrated. Team defense, ability of all 5 to switch is more important.

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ehh

[Justwar]

Your correct about Boston blaze just not about Bagley. Defensively is he athletic to guard the pick, roll, pop is more important, to temporarily defend people. He's defending further away from the basket consistently more than he would in the nba surrounding by other freshman whom are learning to play defense or not good enough athletically to switch. It's not easy to make freshmen look good defensively. He's athletic, if he's poor defensively at the end of the year then worry

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[Justwar]

Towns is a better shot blocker than them but never would say he's a rim protector. They just challenge him a lot occasionally he wins

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[Duke4life831]

I don't see that pairing work on the defensive end, lack of rim protection.

Boston is the best defensive team in the league and they have some of the worst rim protection in the league. They've started games with Marcus Morris and Horford as their 4 and 5. There are good chunks of the game where it's Tatum and Horford at the 4 and 5. Bagley/Lauri would bring more rim protection than what Boston is bringing out. Even when they go Horford and Baynes, Baynes isn't known for his rim protection.

Yeah, no... you are wrong.

Boston is the best defensive team in the league because of Baynes and how good Hoform and him work as a pair on the defensive end.
Baynes is not a bad rim protector, the fact that he doesn't many blocks doesn't take away from the fact that he is one of the better defenders in the league. He knows how to use the rule of verticality extremely well at the rim, one of the best post up defenders and is currently the best defending big man at challenging 3 point shooters.

You argument doesn't hold much ground because Marcus and Horford have been very bad together on the defensive end. With Tatum at the 4 they are able to switch defenively at en elite level, something Bagley and Lauri will never be able to do. Besides, that 4/5 with Tatum and Horford is there to provide elite spacing and great offense, not for defense.

Bagley/Lauri will be an abysmal defensive pair that will not even come close to what Baynes and Horford are doing.

Bringing in Baynes was one of the most underrated moves in the off-season. If he weren't on the roster Boston would have been a middle of the pack team... He is that good for them.

I still dont get how anything you just said proved that I was wrong. The idea that Bagley/Lauri cant work defensively because neither are elite rim protectors isnt true. I brought up Boston who is the best defensive team in the league and they dont have any elite rim protectors. I never once said Baynes was a bad defender, Baynes is a really good defender but no hes is not a great rim protector. 6ft and in people are shooting 60% against Baynes, that is about 3% lower than their average, so again a good defender but not a great rim protector. Baynes without a doubt makes Boston's defense better, but Baynes only plays 17 minutes a game and Horford spend about 70% of his time at the 5. So Boston still plays the majority of the game without Baynes on the court.

Also why would Boston be able to switch everything with Tatum at the 4 but Chicago wouldnt be able to with Bagley/Lauri? Bagley moves better than Tatum and Lauri moves better than Horford. There is plenty of potential there for a lot of switching with those guys as your front court. Also Chicago can still go out and sign a defensive big to come off the bench and play 15 minutes to fill that Baynes role.

[toussaud]

Daniel Gafford was 8/8 from the field , 7 rebounds, 6 blocks in 21 MINTUES against minnosota saturday

he's WCS with more intensity. i thought he was a 2019 draft pick.. i'd take him in the lottery this year honesty. he can defenend the 1 -5 . he can defend on the perimeter.

[No-Man]

He is different than WCS, but yeah he is good, I'd say more like Capela

[Ruzious]

Daniel Gafford was 8/8 from the field , 7 rebounds, 6 blocks in 21 MINTUES against minnosota saturday

he's WCS with more intensity. i thought he was a 2019 draft pick.. i'd take him in the lottery this year honesty. he can defenend the 1 -5 . he can defend on the perimeter.

If he wasn't having fouling issues, he'd be one of the top players in the nation. A lot of similarities to John Collins but seems to have more defensive potential and seems like he's gotten bigger.

[Kolkmania]

do you think bagley is a good fit with markkanen? is chicago going to go with the best player available or best fit?

I don't see that pairing work on the defensive end, lack of rim protection.

Boston is the best defensive team in the league and they have some of the worst rim protection in the league. They've started games with Marcus Morris and Horford as their 4 and 5. There are good chunks of the game where it's Tatum and Horford at the 4 and 5. Bagley/Lauri would bring more rim protection than what Boston is bringing out. Even when they go Horford and Baynes, Baynes isn't known for his rim protection.

Well and when they pair Morris with Horford their defensive rating drops to one of the worst defenses in the league. Defense with Horford + Tatum without Baynes and Theis is also significantly worse.

Bringing up Boston is a bit of a reach to me as well, they're such an outlier because their entire defensive scheme is so sound. Their perimeter defense is so good that it can cover up some of the lack of rim protection imo. That said Al Horford and Daniel Theis affect shots at the rim at a great rate.

On top of that has neither Bagley nor Markkanen the defensive instincts Al Horford has, I personally think that Bagley's ability to defend on the perimeter is a big question mark as well. He gets into a deep stance, but I feel that his hip mobility prevents him from containing quick guards. Markkanen doesn't have the hands to deflect passes and steal the ball, not the length to bother shots and mediocre quickness. Perhaps the label "lack of rim protection" isn't nuanced enough, but I do think that pairing lacks defense.

[Alatan]

do you think bagley is a good fit with markkanen? is chicago going to go with the best player available or best fit?

I don't see that pairing work on the defensive end, lack of rim protection.

Boston is the best defensive team in the league and they have some of the worst rim protection in the league. They've started games with Marcus Morris and Horford as their 4 and 5. There are good chunks of the game where it's Tatum and Horford at the 4 and 5. Bagley/Lauri would bring more rim protection than what Boston is bringing out. Even when they go Horford and Baynes, Baynes isn't known for his rim protection.

Horford is one of the better defending bigs in the league and Baynes is a big, tough, smart guy that play with effort and hustle. Saying they dont bring rim protection is laughable to me.

[Duke4life831]

I don't see that pairing work on the defensive end, lack of rim protection.

Boston is the best defensive team in the league and they have some of the worst rim protection in the league. They've started games with Marcus Morris and Horford as their 4 and 5. There are good chunks of the game where it's Tatum and Horford at the 4 and 5. Bagley/Lauri would bring more rim protection than what Boston is bringing out. Even when they go Horford and Baynes, Baynes isn't known for his rim protection.

Horford is one of the better defending bigs in the league and Baynes is a big, tough, smart guy that play with effort and hustle. Saying they dont bring rim protection is laughable to me.

Im not saying theyre bad defenders. Both are really good defenders, are they your traditional elite rim protectors? No. Same goes for OKC, OKC has the 2nd best defense in the league. Theyre 19th in blocks per 100, Paul George starts at the 4 for OKC. Steven Adams is a really good defender but hes not a great rim protector. He doesnt block that many shots and guys shoot 58% against him within 6ft, which is 3% below their average. Not saying Adams is a bad defender or poor rim protector, but hes not an elite rim protector by any means.

All Im saying the idea that a defense needs at least one elite rim protector out there to be a good defense isnt true. Scheme and overall team defensive ability is more important. Boston is such a good defense because you can have a lineup of Rozier/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford out on the court. Where is the weakness in that defense? You got all 5 guys that are good defensively and a ton of versatility.

[Alatan]

Boston is the best defensive team in the league and they have some of the worst rim protection in the league. They've started games with Marcus Morris and Horford as their 4 and 5. There are good chunks of the game where it's Tatum and Horford at the 4 and 5. Bagley/Lauri would bring more rim protection than what Boston is bringing out. Even when they go Horford and Baynes, Baynes isn't known for his rim protection.

Horford is one of the better defending bigs in the league and Baynes is a big, tough, smart guy that play with effort and hustle. Saying they dont bring rim protection is laughable to me.

Im not saying theyre bad defenders. Both are really good defenders, are they your traditional elite rim protectors? No. Same goes for OKC, OKC has the 2nd best defense in the league. Theyre 19th in blocks per 100, Paul George starts at the 4 for OKC. Steven Adams is a really good defender but hes not a great rim protector. He doesnt block that many shots and guys shoot 58% against him within 6ft, which is 3% below their average. Not saying Adams is a bad defender or poor rim protector, but hes not an elite rim protector by any means.

All Im saying the idea that a defense needs at least one elite rim protector out there to be a good defense isnt true. Scheme and overall team defensive ability is more important. Boston is such a good defense because you can have a lineup of Rozier/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford out on the court. Where is the weakness in that defense? You got all 5 guys that are good defensively and a ton of versatility.

The thing is Bagley is not only a bad shot blocker, he is a bad defender period. Pairing him up with someone who is not a good defender in general including shot blocking is a recipe for a bad defense.

[Alatan]

Is there an example of a bad college defender becoming a good NBA defender, especially at the center position?

[Justwar]

Bam adebayo defense sucked a lot of the year. Now he's pretty solid in the nba. Didn't look like a rim protector most of his freshman year.

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[The-Power]

All Im saying the idea that a defense needs at least one elite rim protector out there to be a good defense isnt true. Scheme and overall team defensive ability is more important. Boston is such a good defense because you can have a lineup of Rozier/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford out on the court. Where is the weakness in that defense? You got all 5 guys that are good defensively and a ton of versatility.

But this is the exception, not the rule. We can phrase it differently: when did we see the last defense where both big men were below average to average interior defenders? Not only in terms of shot blocking but also in terms of positioning, timing of rotations and help defense, coordinating perimeter players in front, post defense. Whether you call it lack of rim protection or something else: Markkanen and Bagley together is probably going to be bad defensively and even with more experience, development and a good system it's going to be average at best.

Do you believe the offensive synergie and dominance would be overwhelming enough to justify picking Bagley and modeling their entire defensive scheme as well as building their roster with the purpose of covering their (shared) defensive weaknesses? Because that would be necessary, you cannot casually have a decent defense with two big men who are underwhelming in terms of strength and length, provide not much help defense and are not known for involving themselves in most defensive plays with positive contributions (e.g. being quarterbacks of the defense as vocal leaders who know where to be at any time and how to help their teammates out without compromising the defense).

[Justwar]

Anthony Davis defense his freshman year and noel are more of the exception rather than the rule. How many freshmen were good at the beginning of that year?

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[The-Power]

Bam adebayo defense sucked a lot of the year. Now he's pretty solid in the nba. Didn't look like a rim protector most of his freshman year.

Still doesn't look like a rim protector and the Heat defense has been terrible with him on the floor. He racks up more steals and less blocks than in college adjusted for pace and minutes, and this is with players attacking him more frequently than in Kentucky because he's an inexperienced Rookie who can be taken advantage of.

[No-Man]

Bam can stay with smalls in switches but that's about it, he is clueless most of the time and def can't protect the rim.

He is a fine big, a guy to maybe pay 4-5m$ to be your starting big, rack up rebounds and play 20minpg max

Picking that player in the lotto is **** criminal

[Duke4life831]

All Im saying the idea that a defense needs at least one elite rim protector out there to be a good defense isnt true. Scheme and overall team defensive ability is more important. Boston is such a good defense because you can have a lineup of Rozier/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford out on the court. Where is the weakness in that defense? You got all 5 guys that are good defensively and a ton of versatility.

But this is the exception, not the rule. We can phrase it differently: when did we see the last defense where both big men were below average to average interior defenders? Not only in terms of shot blocking but also in terms of positioning, timing of rotations and help defense, coordinating perimeter players in front, post defense. Whether you call it lack of rim protection or something else: Markkanen and Bagley together is probably going to be bad defensively and even with more experience, development and a good system it's going to be average at best.

Do you believe the offensive synergie and dominance would be overwhelming enough to justify picking Bagley and modeling their entire defensive scheme as well as building their roster with the purpose of covering their (shared) defensive weaknesses? Because that would be necessary, you cannot casually have a decent defense with two big men who are underwhelming in terms of strength and length, provide not much help defense and are not known for involving themselves in most defensive plays with positive contributions (e.g. being quarterbacks of the defense as vocal leaders who know where to be at any time and how to help their teammates out without compromising the defense).

Im not claiming that a Lauri/Bagley front court is ever going to be considered an elite defensive front court. Do I think they can ever become just an average to solid defensive front court? Ya I do. You would have basically 2 7 footers, one with tremendous athleticism and a crazy motor, Lauri moves his feet really well for someone his size as well. Also both are smart players with no questions of work ethic. I think they can become average-solid defensively. Plus again you can sign a big tough defender to play 15 minutes off the bench if matchups worry you.

Now do I think if those two become average-solid defensively will that be good enough? Yes. Because offensively I think theyre a tremendous fit together. Both guys have the potential to be really good inside/out scorers. Bagley is the better inside scorer while Lauri is the better 3 point shooter, but Bagley is shooting 33% from 3 this year which isnt great but definitely shows potential for long term growth. Also both guys arent ball dominant players offensively, they can find ways to score without needing to pound the rock.

I think they can become a scary offensive front court, average defensive front court and with Bagley you wont have any worries rebounding either.

[Alatan]

Anthony Davis defense his freshman year and noel are more of the exception rather than the rule. How many freshmen were good at the beginning of that year?

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Ok i agree that its the beginning of the year and players have much to learn but neither Bagley, Ayton or Porter strike me as plus defenders and i doubt it will change. Its a shame for a guy of Aytons physical attributes to be a bad defender at any level of competition.