Markelle Fultz

[oddwolfhooligan]

Does anyone think Brandon Roy is a good comparison instead of Wade? The SG type who is a primary ball handler, not the freak athlete of a top guy, but still good, has a shooters game, that type of thing?

I've personally likened Fultz to a slightly more dynamic and better passing version of Roy. I also think Roy is an excellent example of why Fultz will be just fine without elite athleticism.

[SelfishPlayer]

Doesn't use picks heavily to get into the paint in college is a nonsensical way of categorizing real NBA PGs.

It's an indication of a player that can't get anywhere on the floor that he wants, which historically is something that good NBA PGs can do. If he needs picks to score 20+ ppg against horrible college players, then is he really worth the #1 pick? No...

No it's actually not. Fox has some great handles and fantastic speed/burst but his inability to shoot from range definitely impacts his ability to get where he wants in the halfcourt.

Picks are an ever-present part of the game. It's bizarre that you continue to view Fultz proficiency in using them as a negative. Steve Nash and Steph Curry won MVPs on the back of picks. (James Harden is a leading candidate to win another as the most PNR-prolific guard in the league). Neither Nash nor Curry were/are Fox-style blow-by guys in one-on-one settings. And Fultz is bigger, more athletic and more explosive than both.

Are you convinced that Fultz won't be able to turn the corner or split the PNR against NBA PNR D? That he won't be able to attack bigs on switches? That his jumpshot won't translate to NBA 3 range? While I'd disagree, those at least would be arguments.

Did Curry, Harden, or Nash enter the NBA utilizing as many pick and roll opportunities as they did during their most productive seasons? No. They had to earn that right. Well, to a degree, when you play for Mike D'antoni he'll let any lead guard run countless pick and rolls, remember Linsanity? So two out of the three guys you named played for the same coach, and the other guy has the best jump shot ever. You need more examples. If it were all about the pick & roll the Lakers would simply use DLo like Harden, Nash, Linsanity and never look back. Wait, that Mike D'antoni guy again, you are a fan of his aren't you?

[DK-All Day]

Idk why but I get a CP3 vibe from Fultz.

[Patsfan1081]

Fultz is basically a poormans wade with better shot but slightly less athleticsm

Wade is arguably the best slasher ever and Fultz can't get to the rim without a pick in college. They're nothing alike at all.

Yeah, you've obviously haven't watched this kid at all if you say he can't get to the rim. Despite not being a super athlete he has blown by plenty of defenders, he has a excellent first step and hesitations moves. I get it though, no chance he ends up with us so let's hate on the guy......

[E-Balla]

Fultz is basically a poormans wade with better shot but slightly less athleticsm

Wade is arguably the best slasher ever and Fultz can't get to the rim without a pick in college. They're nothing alike at all.

Yeah, you've obviously haven't watched this kid at all if you say he can't get to the rim. Despite not being a super athlete he has blown by plenty of defenders, he has a excellent first step and hesitations moves. I get it though, no chance he ends up with us so let's hate on the guy......

Without a pick? He can't. You obviously didn't watch him. He gets to the rim as well as DLo did and not only did I see that but its a statistical fact. There's a reason he's the worst of the projected first round PGs in isolation ppp and it isn't that he's good at driving. Lonzo had him locked down and hos man defense is a weakness. And his first step is basura.

And its funny you're playing the "you're only saying that because you won't get him" card because I've said this all year and I said nothing about him as an overall player. Just that Dwyane Wade should smack fire outta anyone trying his life with that terrible comparison.

[E-Balla]

Does anyone think Brandon Roy is a good comparison instead of Wade? The SG type who is a primary ball handler, not the freak athlete of a top guy, but still good, has a shooters game, that type of thing?

I've personally likened Fultz to a slightly more dynamic and better passing version of Roy. I also think Roy is an excellent example of why Fultz will be just fine without elite athleticism.

Roy was a great athlete he just played slow. I mean he had a 41 inch vertical and was blowing by guys like it was nothing with that first step. Fultz actually is slow. Plus Roy is one of the 5 best passing SGs ever. He lead a number one offense at the age of like 25 and his assist numbers were only low because he wasn't always handling the ball. Fultz ain't close to Roy as a passer.

I still think its a decent comparison but there's no way a BETTER Brandon Roy should be the comparison.

[ph1sh55]

Does anyone think Brandon Roy is a good comparison instead of Wade? The SG type who is a primary ball handler, not the freak athlete of a top guy, but still good, has a shooters game, that type of thing?

I've personally likened Fultz to a slightly more dynamic and better passing version of Roy. I also think Roy is an excellent example of why Fultz will be just fine without elite athleticism.

You undersell Roy here, Roy was a much better passer and extremely well rounded. And he had an elite 41inch vert, he was just exceptional about changing the speeds he played at, and looked slower because he didn't play at 100% speed all the time. But he had the explosiveness to get by guys consistently. I remember Kobe trying to stay in front of him so many times, and even later when he got hobbled he could still go to work on him.

[Slartibartfast]

Wade is arguably the best slasher ever and Fultz can't get to the rim without a pick in college. They're nothing alike at all.

Yeah, you've obviously haven't watched this kid at all if you say he can't get to the rim. Despite not being a super athlete he has blown by plenty of defenders, he has a excellent first step and hesitations moves. I get it though, no chance he ends up with us so let's hate on the guy......

Without a pick? He can't. You obviously didn't watch him. He gets to the rim as well as DLo did and not only did I see that but its a statistical fact. There's a reason he's the worst of the projected first round PGs in isolation ppp and it isn't that he's good at driving. Lonzo had him locked down and hos man defense is a weakness. And his first step is basura.

And its funny you're playing the "you're only saying that because you won't get him" card because I've said this all year and I said nothing about him as an overall player. Just that Dwyane Wade should smack fire outta anyone trying his life with that terrible comparison.

What stat are you referring to? Because the data from this article - https://fansided.com/2017/05/19/markelle-fultz-incredible-upside-finisher/ - has him almost doubling up DLo in unassisted rim attempts per 40.

Meanwhile his first step doesn't look great but there's not much on tape - he doesn't do much triple threat. But that's not the only way to drive the ball. Ridiculous to say so in fact when we've seen guys like Nash live in the paint with meh burst. Or how about prime D-Will - dude did just about all of his damage with side to side crossovers and hesitation moves to freeze guys afraid of his deadly pull-up.

Does anyone think Brandon Roy is a good comparison instead of Wade? The SG type who is a primary ball handler, not the freak athlete of a top guy, but still good, has a shooters game, that type of thing?

I've personally likened Fultz to a slightly more dynamic and better passing version of Roy. I also think Roy is an excellent example of why Fultz will be just fine without elite athleticism.

Roy was a great athlete he just played slow. I mean he had a 41 inch vertical and was blowing by guys like it was nothing with that first step. Fultz actually is slow. Plus Roy is one of the 5 best passing SGs ever. He lead a number one offense at the age of like 25 and his assist numbers were only low because he wasn't always handling the ball. Fultz ain't close to Roy as a passer.

I still think its a decent comparison but there's no way a BETTER Brandon Roy should be the comparison.

You talk about Fultz like he's Kyle Anderson slow. It's ridiculous. The guy isn't as a fast as a freak like Fox, but his hesitation moves wouldn't work if he didn't have some burst. There's a spectrum of guard speed. You've got sloths like Anderson on one end and speedsters like John Wall on the other but there's a lot in between. Fultz is somewhere in the middle in terms of acceleration, slightly above average in the open court (long strides) and well above average in terms of side to side quickness (his spin moves are as electric as John Wall's).

As for Roy, they are different. A bigger guy. More wing isos. Probably a better first step but you are way overrating how important it (and his vertical) was to his game. Did a lot of his halfcourt creation working out of PNR and/or using hang dribbles and cross overs to wrong foot his defender and then used his ambidexterity to drive by them. Once he got into the paint he was a shifty below the rim player other than a few statement dunks with plenty of time to wind up.

And you are gushing over a 25 year old Roy while crapping all over an 18 year old Fultz. Fultz just obliterates Roy at 18-19. Roy's range was more like Evan Turner's at that age and he was a turnover machine - far less efficient as a passer and scorer than Fultz.
Some healthy skepticism is warranted but you are venturing into mindless hater territory here.

[cksdayoff]

I respectfully disagree with E-Balla here when he compares Fultz to DLo at getting to the rim. I've watched a ton of Russell at Ohio St. and a ton of Fultz. Russell was straight up ass at getting to the rim and i knew he would have to pick his spots in the NBA if he ever decided to attack the paint. Fultz got to the rim despite terrible spacing, with the paint clogged and with 2-3 defenders guarding the basket. You just can't compare the two.

[SelfishPlayer]

Fultz, Kris Dunn, DLo, Reggie Jackson, without a pick they scare no NBA defenders...

[E-Balla]

Without a pick? He can't. You obviously didn't watch him. He gets to the rim as well as DLo did and not only did I see that but its a statistical fact. There's a reason he's the worst of the projected first round PGs in isolation ppp and it isn't that he's good at driving. Lonzo had him locked down and his man defense is a weakness. And his first step is basura.

And its funny you're playing the "you're only saying that because you won't get him" card because I've said this all year and I said nothing about him as an overall player. Just that Dwyane Wade should smack fire outta anyone trying his life with that terrible comparison.

What stat are you referring to? Because the data from this article - https://fansided.com/2017/05/19/markelle-fultz-incredible-upside-finisher/ - has him almost doubling up DLo in unassisted rim attempts per 40.

He used a lot more possessions. If someone gets the ball 10 times and takes 2 shots at rim are they worse than getting to the rim than someone taking 4 shots in 20 possessions? As a percentage of their possessions they're about even with Fultz having a slight lead. And that's not just taking isolation into account like I am. Fultz is great in the PNR. His ability to work without a pick is horrible tho.

Meanwhile his first step doesn't look great but there's not much on tape - he doesn't do much triple threat. But that's not the only way to drive the ball. Ridiculous to say so in fact when we've seen guys like Nash live in the paint with meh burst. Or how about prime D-Will - dude did just about all of his damage with side to side crossovers and hesitation moves to freeze guys afraid of his deadly pull-up.

Nash was quick when younger. Yeah 32 year old Nash needed picks he was an old man. Chris Paul needs picks now too. Not only is that completely irrelevant but you're also comparing being unable to get by defenders in the NBA to not being able to get by them in COLLEGE. Keep in mind we're talking about this in context to a comparison I've consistently seen to Dwyane **** Wade here. The best slasher ever vs a guy that needs picks to get to the paint. And he doesn't have Deron or Kyrie's crossover either. He's the worst PG in the draft when it comes to operating without a pick. Period. This happens every year where a player comes out with a reputation nothing like they play and people eat it up. The same people saying Fultz plays like D. Wade were trying to convince me Jabari wasn't athletic as hell a few years back.

You talk about Fultz like he's Kyle Anderson slow. It's ridiculous. The guy isn't as a fast as a freak like Fox, but his hesitation moves wouldn't work if he didn't have some burst. There's a spectrum of guard speed. You've got sloths like Anderson on one end and speedsters like John Wall on the other but there's a lot in between. Fultz is somewhere in the middle in terms of acceleration, slightly above average in the open court (long strides) and well above average in terms of side to side quickness (his spin moves are as electric as John Wall's).

I talk about him like he's DLo slow because he is. Fultz has below average speed on drives. Full court when he gets the strides going he's good. He's a player that needs some momentum behind him. On Madden he'd have a 90 speed with a 60 acceleration. There's a reason he was so trash 1 on 1 and a guy that actually has average side to side speed like Lonzo kept him in a ball and chain. Fultz has his other strengths that make him in my top tier along with Ball, Smith, and Jackson but his ability to drive ain't one. At all.

As for Roy, they are different. A bigger guy. More wing isos. Probably a better first step but you are way overrating how important it (and his vertical) was to his game. Did a lot of his halfcourt creation working out of PNR and/or using hang dribbles and cross overs to wrong foot his defender and then used his ambidexterity to drive by them. Once he got into the paint he was a shifty below the rim player other than a few statement dunks with plenty of time to wind up.

And you are gushing over a 25 year old Roy while crapping all over an 18 year old Fultz. Fultz just obliterates Roy at 18-19. Roy's range was more like Evan Turner's at that age and he was a turnover machine - far less efficient as a passer and scorer than Fultz.
Some healthy skepticism is warranted but you are venturing into mindless hater territory here.

Yes because when I said "I still think its a decent comparison but there's no way a BETTER Brandon Roy should be the comparison" I was clearly being a mindless hater. GTFO with that bs. You just said what I said (that calling him a better Roy is absurd) but I'm a hater for it? Whatever. This is almost as crazy as when I got sig quoted for saying Hezonja would be a bust.

[oddwolfhooligan]

Does anyone think Brandon Roy is a good comparison instead of Wade? The SG type who is a primary ball handler, not the freak athlete of a top guy, but still good, has a shooters game, that type of thing?

I've personally likened Fultz to a slightly more dynamic and better passing version of Roy. I also think Roy is an excellent example of why Fultz will be just fine without elite athleticism.

Roy was a great athlete he just played slow. I mean he had a 41 inch vertical and was blowing by guys like it was nothing with that first step. Fultz actually is slow. Plus Roy is one of the 5 best passing SGs ever. He lead a number one offense at the age of like 25 and his assist numbers were only low because he wasn't always handling the ball. Fultz ain't close to Roy as a passer.

I still think its a decent comparison but there's no way a BETTER Brandon Roy should be the comparison.

Couple things—One, you have to keep in mind that Brandon Roy came into the league when he was 22. So when I compare the two, I'm not comparing a 19 year old Fultz to a 22 year old Roy(or a 25 year old Roy like you'r doing). I'm comparing Markelle Fultz to what Brandon Roy was as around the same age. And yes, Markelle Fultz is a better passer than Brandon Roy was at a similar stage in their development. Two, I'm comparing these guys as basketball players so I'm much more concerned with how they use their athleticism in games than I am with their combine numbers. Regardless of how Roy tested coming into the league, he really didn't rely on athleticism all that much in order to be productive. If you go back and watch old tape of Brandon Roy and you're not going to see him doing a whole lot athletically that Fultz can't do.

Don't get me wrong, I totally loved Brandon Roy during his time with the Blazers and in no way do I not understand how great he was at his peak. However, when you consider their similar skillsets, similar playing style, and that a 19 year old Fultz is much further along as a player than a 19 year old Roy was, it seems completely reasonable to pitch Fultz's ceiling as a slightly better version of Brandon Roy.

[E-Balla]

I've personally likened Fultz to a slightly more dynamic and better passing version of Roy. I also think Roy is an excellent example of why Fultz will be just fine without elite athleticism.

Roy was a great athlete he just played slow. I mean he had a 41 inch vertical and was blowing by guys like it was nothing with that first step. Fultz actually is slow. Plus Roy is one of the 5 best passing SGs ever. He lead a number one offense at the age of like 25 and his assist numbers were only low because he wasn't always handling the ball. Fultz ain't close to Roy as a passer.

I still think its a decent comparison but there's no way a BETTER Brandon Roy should be the comparison.

Couple things—One, you have to keep in mind that Brandon Roy came into the league when he was 22. So when I compare the two, I'm not comparing a 19 year old Fultz to a 22 year old Roy(or a 25 year old Roy like you'r doing). I'm comparing Markelle Fultz to what Brandon Roy was as around the same age. And yes, Markelle Fultz is a better passer than Brandon Roy was at a similar stage in their development. Two, I'm comparing these guys as basketball players so I'm much more concerned with how they use their athleticism in games than I am with their combine numbers. Regardless of how Roy tested coming into the league, he really didn't rely on athleticism all that much in order to be productive. If you go back and watch old tape of Brandon Roy and you're not going to see him doing a whole lot athletically that Fultz can't do.

Don't get me wrong, I totally loved Brandon Roy during his time with the Blazers and in no way do I not understand how great he was at his peak. However, when you consider their similar skillsets, similar playing style, and that a 19 year old Fultz is much further along as a player than a 19 year old Roy was, it seems completely reasonable to pitch Fultz's ceiling as a slightly better version of Brandon Roy.

He's better than plenty of 19 year olds that were late bloomers. You can't even compare 19 year old Brandon Roy to 22 year old Brandon Roy. He wasn't
even remotely close to being the same player.

[nolang1]

He needs a pick OR he needs a teammate or two who can score enough for the defense to pay attention to. I can count the number of players in the league who can consistently get to the basket 1-on-5 on one hand, and Fultz projects to be a much better outside shooter than all of them.

[Marcus]

He needs a pick OR he needs a teammate or two who can score enough for the defense to pay attention to. I can count the number of players in the league who can consistently get to the basket 1-on-5 on one hand, and Fultz projects to be a much better outside shooter than all of them.

except for Kyrie.

[reanimator]

He's better than plenty of 19 year olds that were late bloomers. You can't even compare 19 year old Brandon Roy to 22 year old Brandon Roy. He wasn't
even remotely close to being the same player.

Fultz is a late bloomer himself and is nothing like the player he was as a Jr and Sr in HS.

[E-Balla]

He's better than plenty of 19 year olds that were late bloomers. You can't even compare 19 year old Brandon Roy to 22 year old Brandon Roy. He wasn't
even remotely close to being the same player.

Fultz is a late bloomer himself and is nothing like the player he was as a Jr and Sr in HS.

No one averaging 23/6/6 at 18 in the Pac 12 can be described as a late bloomer. Period.

[mattao313]

Fultz, Kris Dunn, DLo, Reggie Jackson, without a pick they scare no NBA defenders...

What does this matter? Reggie was top 10 drives and shot 50% of his shots within 10 feet of the rim in 15-16 and Fultz looks to have more moves and just as good of a handle than him. The NBA is a pnr league.

[SelfishPlayer]

Fultz, Kris Dunn, DLo, Reggie Jackson, without a pick they scare no NBA defenders...

What does this matter? Reggie was top 10 drives and shot 50% of his shots within 10 feet of the rim in 15-16 and Fultz looks to have more moves and just as good of a handle than him. The NBA is a pnr league.

Sorry, never heard of a drive stat...

[reanimator]

He's better than plenty of 19 year olds that were late bloomers. You can't even compare 19 year old Brandon Roy to 22 year old Brandon Roy. He wasn't
even remotely close to being the same player.

Fultz is a late bloomer himself and is nothing like the player he was as a Jr and Sr in HS.

No one averaging 23/6/6 at 18 in the Pac 12 can be described as a late bloomer. Period.

Lol this is just silly.

To go from unranked midway through your Jr year to top 30 as a senior to consensus #1 as a college freshman while making huge gains as a shooter, passer and physically definitely qualifies. Many of you were questioning if he could even shoot the 3 prior to the season given his HS body of work and he obliterated those concerns. One of the youngest prospects in the draft and made considerable gains every year and no reason to believe he has topped out.