Lonzo Ball

[madmaxmedia]

I think that is a totally valid observation, but is more reflective of how early the season is, and that they haven't had any down to the wire games yet. He's played great ball that has increased his team's effectiveness, which is exactly what you want from a pure point guard. It has nothing to do with committing to a certain team style. Their most athletic big man missed the first few games of the year and just started playing more minutes, I think he'll end up being the best PnR partner.

That being said- you are right in that we need to see how he performs in a tight game, what he does when the defense is bearing down in those critical possessions with a couple of minutes left. Hopefully we'll get a chance to see that today against Kentucky.

I am not a fan of how little he does on ball, great that he keeps the rock moving and great that he has confidence playing off-ball, although shooting is gonna need refinement, but he doesnt drive at all, doesnt play PnR, like his style is alright if your coach is gonna committ to it, something similar to what the Warriors do, off-ball stuff, little PnR, but he is more a complimentary piece, a more athletic Livingston with better shooting, which is a really good player, than a stud on-ball creator I'd say.
Still valuable esp if you trust the shooting translating somehow, but I dont think he should warrant top half of the lotto consideration honestly, he puts 0 pressure on the defense.

[Marcus]

I think that is a totally valid observation, but is more reflective of how early the season is, and that they haven't had any down to the wire games yet. He's played great ball that has increased his team's effectiveness, which is exactly what you want from a pure point guard. It has nothing to do with committing to a certain team style. Their most athletic big man missed the first few games of the year and just started playing more minutes, I think he'll end up being the best PnR partner.

That being said- you are right in that we need to see how he performs in a tight game, what he does when the defense is bearing down in those critical possessions with a couple of minutes left. Hopefully we'll get a chance to see that today against Kentucky.

I am not a fan of how little he does on ball, great that he keeps the rock moving and great that he has confidence playing off-ball, although shooting is gonna need refinement, but he doesnt drive at all, doesnt play PnR, like his style is alright if your coach is gonna committ to it, something similar to what the Warriors do, off-ball stuff, little PnR, but he is more a complimentary piece, a more athletic Livingston with better shooting, which is a really good player, than a stud on-ball creator I'd say.
Still valuable esp if you trust the shooting translating somehow, but I dont think he should warrant top half of the lotto consideration honestly, he puts 0 pressure on the defense.

But didn't we get some of that in the A&M game? Every time UCLA needed a big play to thwart an Aggies run or turn the tide Lonzo was the catalyst.

The shot block on Davis led to a quick 5 point run and took momentum back.
Took the challenge against DJ Hoog in the post and got the block.
Beat his man off the dribble for a lay up when the Bruins needed a bucket.
And of course that nasty step back where he cleared out the rest of his teammates and took Hoog one on one.

Is he doing it every trip down the floor? No, but when they needed something he delivered.

I know A&M isn't UK but lets not act like all the kid does is throw the ball around the perimeter and sit back while everybody else hits jumpers.

[Bakomagic]

Yea I agree with you there. It's Easier to rack up assist in a heavy pick n roll offense. You you get a pick set gain a step on your man or gain the advantage of a plodding big man switching on to you, force the help and make th easy pass to the open man.

Ball "passes people open" the sign of an elite playmaker kind of like a great NFL QB.

[Bakomagic]

The whole I want to see if he can run the pick and roll is dumb to me. It's the most simplistic (and effective) play in basketball. Old dudes at parks run it with perfection throughout the world haha, albeit in slow motion.

[XTC]

Honestly Lonzo's IQ, vision, and style really remind me of Jason Kidd.

[Supreme-]

struggling offensively this game, but just hit a huge three and his defense / iq is superb

[Marcus]

struggling offensively this game, but just hit a huge three and his defense / iq is superb

He's forced some shots for sure definitely more settled this second half though in general.

[Kolkmania]

The whole I want to see if he can run the pick and roll is dumb to me. It's the most simplistic (and effective) play in basketball. Old dudes at parks run it with perfection throughout the world haha, albeit in slow motion.

Yea I agree with you there. It's Easier to rack up assist in a heavy pick n roll offense. You you get a pick set gain a step on your man or gain the advantage of a plodding big man switching on to you, force the help and make th easy pass to the open man.

Ball "passes people open" the sign of an elite playmaker kind of like a great NFL QB.

No it is not easy at all. You have to burst past your opponent while putting pressure on the defense, keep your opponent on your heels with good handle and keep court vision to make the right decision between scoring on your own of kicking/dishing.

UCLA's floppy sets are so effective, Ball's pinpoint accuracy is impressive, but it's easier than creating on your own.

[Synciere]

I mean, he's a good ball player, but his handle is extremely suspect. Playing against Fox, he had five turnovers early and was taken off point for the majority of the rest of the game. He'll struggle mightily in the pros, but he does pass very well and makes the routine play that helps his team win.

[Bakomagic]

The whole I want to see if he can run the pick and roll is dumb to me. It's the most simplistic (and effective) play in basketball. Old dudes at parks run it with perfection throughout the world haha, albeit in slow motion.

Yea I agree with you there. It's Easier to rack up assist in a heavy pick n roll offense. You you get a pick set gain a step on your man or gain the advantage of a plodding big man switching on to you, force the help and make th easy pass to the open man.

Ball "passes people open" the sign of an elite playmaker kind of like a great NFL QB.

No it is not easy at all. You have to burst past your opponent while putting pressure on the defense, keep your opponent on your heels with good handle and keep court vision to make the right decision between scoring on your own of kicking/dishing.

UCLA's floppy sets are so effective, Ball's pinpoint accuracy is impressive, but it's easier than creating on your own.

So it's harder to beat your man off the dribble with no screen, then to get past your man one he's being screened ? No way, if they switch then it's most likely going to be a bigger man on you with less mobility... I.E. Slower in his back peddle, lateral movement. Then the baseline defender usually comes over then you kick it out to the baseline for the three witch is already in your line of sight naturally as you see the help coming from that direction.

That's why players set screens, because it almost guarantees the defense to help and adjust, making it easier for players to get ill pen opportunities. When You can't get by your guy to penetrate (iso) what do you do ? Call for a screen.

If Lonso has shown he can get by his man and force the defense to react. We can assume he can do it even more easily with the use of a screen right. I mean am I alone here haha.

[TheBunk]

Those turnovers came(for the most part) on errant passes. His handle looked fine. More disconcerting is his lack of penetration.

[Bakomagic]

I will say that if he's no threat to hit the midrange jump shot, then that will create problems as teams go under screens and dare him to shoot I.E. Elf Payton.

But having the handle and quickness to get into the lane and having the IQ to know when to pass or score is your argument against Ball, then you couldn't be anymore wrong.

Decision making, ball handling,quickness, and finishing at the rim are Lonzo best Attributes. Doesn't take much studying of him to determine that.

[Marcus]

I mean, he's a good ball player, but his handle is extremely suspect. Playing against Fox, he had five turnovers early and was taken off point for the majority of the rest of the game. He'll struggle mightily in the pros, but he does pass very well and makes the routine play that helps his team win.

Fox sped him up in the first half and he took himself off the ball in the second until a play needed to be made.

Definitely not his best game. Didn't shoot well. Numbers look bad on offense. Defense was very good, the vision was expected, Had some steals and forced Briscoe to turn the rock over a bunch of times.

I know it's not his game but he definitely needs to at least look at the rim when he gets by his man. Completely played for the pass on his drives.

[Goner]

Those turnovers came(for the most part) on errant passes. His handle looked fine. More disconcerting is his lack of penetration.

He wasn't getting ball screens very often in that game, idk why, but it looked like Kentucky's length was bothering him a lot early in the game. He cleaned it up in the second half and seemed to make adjustments.

[Marcus]

Those turnovers came(for the most part) on errant passes. His handle looked fine. More disconcerting is his lack of penetration.

Yeah it's one thing to not force it which I've applauded him for but he has to at least provide the threat. Goes back to the floater statement from earlier. He shows that for respect at that level of the floor and he'll open up much more for himself and others like he wants to.

[Marcus]

Those turnovers came(for the most part) on errant passes. His handle looked fine. More disconcerting is his lack of penetration.

He wasn't getting ball screens very often in that game, idk why, but it looked like Kentucky's length was bothering him a lot early in the game. He cleaned it up in the second half and seemed to make adjustments.

He got a bunch of Ball screens just didn't attack the bigs enough. Settled a bit too much for jumpers on those switches. Needed to penetrate a little more.

[Worm122]

Lonzo Ball could be a poor Rajon Rondo?

[GimmeDat]

Lonzo Ball could be a poor Rajon Rondo?

Or a better one. More size, better shooter, less over-dribbling.

[CptCrunch]

I'm not sold on Lonzo. I believe he is on one of those hot shooting streaks. He was never a good shooter in high school and has extremely questionable shot mechanics.

This game, he struggled against NBA caliber guards disrupting his game during the first half.

[Marcus]

I'm not sold on Lonzo. I believe he is on one of those hot shooting streaks. He was never a good shooter in high school and has extremely questionable shot mechanics.

This game, he struggled against NBA caliber guards disrupting his game during the first half.

Wait so 58/44/80 over his high school career means never a good shooter?