Dennis Smith Jr

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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#321 » by JMac1 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:39 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:DSJ is my clear cut #1 guy. He was my #1 before the year (had him and Tatum back and forth), he dropped a little during the season, mostly because State was just not relevant. Once the season was over and all the smoke cleared and my emotions calmed, I got him back as my #1 guy. His game is made to succeed as a PG in todays game and is going to explode once in the NBA.

You've watched 10+ games of every prospect?


Of the college prospects? Yes. I dont watch Euro ball so have no clue about guys from overseas. And Im not making my decision based just off of the college season. Sadly Ive been watching these guys as prospects since they were Sophomores and Juniors in high school. Ive actually seen the majority of the games for all of the top prospects. Im a die-hard college basketball fan. I will say out of say the top 20 guys, Justin Patton is the one dude I have not seen 10+ times. Ive only seen him play a few times.



Where do you have Tatum?
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#322 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:53 pm

JMac1 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Pinkyring wrote:You've watched 10+ games of every prospect?


Of the college prospects? Yes. I dont watch Euro ball so have no clue about guys from overseas. And Im not making my decision based just off of the college season. Sadly Ive been watching these guys as prospects since they were Sophomores and Juniors in high school. Ive actually seen the majority of the games for all of the top prospects. Im a die-hard college basketball fan. I will say out of say the top 20 guys, Justin Patton is the one dude I have not seen 10+ times. Ive only seen him play a few times.



Where do you have Tatum?


2-5 for me is basically a wash, I got Fultz, Ball, Tatum and Jackson as all neck and neck. If you make an argument for any of those guys over any of the other 3, I could totally get it and probably wouldnt disagree. But if right now gun to my head, who do I think will be looked at as the best players in this draft 10 years from now Id go

1. DSJ
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Fultz
5. Jackson

Ball is just a winner wherever he goes and I think he is going to be living in the playoffs every year (much sooner than people think) and he is going to be running one of the better offenses probably as well. Tatum's explosiveness around the rim is the only reason I dont have him #1. To me he is really good everywhere else in his game and just because hes one of the better ISO scorers we have seen in awhile doesnt mean he is a ball stopper on offense. Fultz I think is going to be a really good scorer but I can see people turning on him and saying you cant win with him (like Kyrie, IT) because of his defense and I dont think he will be a great primary facilitator. Jackson really all depends on that jumper, if it ever becomes consistent watch out, but I think he will end up being like a 35% shooter from 3 and will be good enough to make an impact offensively and not hurt teams, but not enough to be a star offensively.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#323 » by damecurry » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:43 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Of the college prospects? Yes. I dont watch Euro ball so have no clue about guys from overseas. And Im not making my decision based just off of the college season. Sadly Ive been watching these guys as prospects since they were Sophomores and Juniors in high school. Ive actually seen the majority of the games for all of the top prospects. Im a die-hard college basketball fan. I will say out of say the top 20 guys, Justin Patton is the one dude I have not seen 10+ times. Ive only seen him play a few times.



Where do you have Tatum?


2-5 for me is basically a wash, I got Fultz, Ball, Tatum and Jackson as all neck and neck. If you make an argument for any of those guys over any of the other 3, I could totally get it and probably wouldnt disagree. But if right now gun to my head, who do I think will be looked at as the best players in this draft 10 years from now Id go

1. DSJ
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Fultz
5. Jackson

Ball is just a winner wherever he goes and I think he is going to be living in the playoffs every year (much sooner than people think) and he is going to be running one of the better offenses probably as well. Tatum's explosiveness around the rim is the only reason I dont have him #1. To me he is really good everywhere else in his game and just because hes one of the better ISO scorers we have seen in awhile doesnt mean he is a ball stopper on offense. Fultz I think is going to be a really good scorer but I can see people turning on him and saying you cant win with him (like Kyrie, IT) because of his defense and I dont think he will be a great primary facilitator. Jackson really all depends on that jumper, if it ever becomes consistent watch out, but I think he will end up being like a 35% shooter from 3 and will be good enough to make an impact offensively and not hurt teams, but not enough to be a star offensively.

You are much, much lower on Fultz than I, I think his defensive issues were largely systematic/team related and he is a very underrated passer but otherwise I largely agree with your assessment. DSJ is my clear #2 guy behind Fultz, I think he easily has the most upside as nebulous a concept as that is, and he can tear it up at the next level, another guy who's problems were largely situation/team-related imo. Tatum I'm not quite as high on but I might take him over JJ just because I trust his jumper a lot more and if JJ just can't shoot at all then he's basically MKG if he fills out and toughens up, and that's just not that valuable imo. SO I'd probably go: 1) Fultz, 2) DSJ, 3) Ball, 4) Tatum, 5) JJ, I might be tempted to toss Issac up there but I don't think his upside is that high, he'll be a 3&D 4, not a wing creator or something, so yeah that'd be my list. And I will admit I haven't seen nearly as much of these guys as you but I have seen a few games of all the top prospects as well as quite a bit of film/cuts/draftexpress videos/youtube highlights and read a lot of scouting reports and such. That'd be my prediction for the future and thus also my big board probably.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#324 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:55 pm

damecurry wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:

Where do you have Tatum?


2-5 for me is basically a wash, I got Fultz, Ball, Tatum and Jackson as all neck and neck. If you make an argument for any of those guys over any of the other 3, I could totally get it and probably wouldnt disagree. But if right now gun to my head, who do I think will be looked at as the best players in this draft 10 years from now Id go

1. DSJ
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Fultz
5. Jackson

Ball is just a winner wherever he goes and I think he is going to be living in the playoffs every year (much sooner than people think) and he is going to be running one of the better offenses probably as well. Tatum's explosiveness around the rim is the only reason I dont have him #1. To me he is really good everywhere else in his game and just because hes one of the better ISO scorers we have seen in awhile doesnt mean he is a ball stopper on offense. Fultz I think is going to be a really good scorer but I can see people turning on him and saying you cant win with him (like Kyrie, IT) because of his defense and I dont think he will be a great primary facilitator. Jackson really all depends on that jumper, if it ever becomes consistent watch out, but I think he will end up being like a 35% shooter from 3 and will be good enough to make an impact offensively and not hurt teams, but not enough to be a star offensively.

You are much, much lower on Fultz than I, I think his defensive issues were largely systematic/team related and he is a very underrated passer but otherwise I largely agree with your assessment. DSJ is my clear #2 guy behind Fultz, I think he easily has the most upside as nebulous a concept as that is, and he can tear it up at the next level, another guy who's problems were largely situation/team-related imo. Tatum I'm not quite as high on but I might take him over JJ just because I trust his jumper a lot more and if JJ just can't shoot at all then he's basically MKG if he fills out and toughens up, and that's just not that valuable imo. SO I'd probably go: 1) Fultz, 2) DSJ, 3) Ball, 4) Tatum, 5) JJ, I might be tempted to toss Issac up there but I don't think his upside is that high, he'll be a 3&D 4, not a wing creator or something, so yeah that'd be my list. And I will admit I haven't seen nearly as much of these guys as you but I have seen a few games of all the top prospects as well as quite a bit of film/cuts/draftexpress videos/youtube highlights and read a lot of scouting reports and such. That'd be my prediction for the future and thus also my big board probably.


I am definitely a little lower on Fultz than most and I will be the first to acknowledge Im in the minority with that thinking. I think Fultz is a good passer, I just dont think he has the facilitating mindset, I think he has a score 1st, 2nd and 3rd mindset. Which is totally fine with me because he is a fantastic scorer.

But I totally see why you and others have him at #1. Again I find it very difficult to argue these top 5 guys because I think they all have legit claims as being the top guy. Even before the year I thought this was a class where you could make an argument for 5-6 guys for the top pick. Giles was the 6th guy and as the season played out we saw that was no longer the case. But these 5 guys are all legit. I think its really splitting hairs and more what style of player you like between the 5 of them.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#325 » by damecurry » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:33 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
damecurry wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
2-5 for me is basically a wash, I got Fultz, Ball, Tatum and Jackson as all neck and neck. If you make an argument for any of those guys over any of the other 3, I could totally get it and probably wouldnt disagree. But if right now gun to my head, who do I think will be looked at as the best players in this draft 10 years from now Id go

1. DSJ
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Fultz
5. Jackson

Ball is just a winner wherever he goes and I think he is going to be living in the playoffs every year (much sooner than people think) and he is going to be running one of the better offenses probably as well. Tatum's explosiveness around the rim is the only reason I dont have him #1. To me he is really good everywhere else in his game and just because hes one of the better ISO scorers we have seen in awhile doesnt mean he is a ball stopper on offense. Fultz I think is going to be a really good scorer but I can see people turning on him and saying you cant win with him (like Kyrie, IT) because of his defense and I dont think he will be a great primary facilitator. Jackson really all depends on that jumper, if it ever becomes consistent watch out, but I think he will end up being like a 35% shooter from 3 and will be good enough to make an impact offensively and not hurt teams, but not enough to be a star offensively.

You are much, much lower on Fultz than I, I think his defensive issues were largely systematic/team related and he is a very underrated passer but otherwise I largely agree with your assessment. DSJ is my clear #2 guy behind Fultz, I think he easily has the most upside as nebulous a concept as that is, and he can tear it up at the next level, another guy who's problems were largely situation/team-related imo. Tatum I'm not quite as high on but I might take him over JJ just because I trust his jumper a lot more and if JJ just can't shoot at all then he's basically MKG if he fills out and toughens up, and that's just not that valuable imo. SO I'd probably go: 1) Fultz, 2) DSJ, 3) Ball, 4) Tatum, 5) JJ, I might be tempted to toss Issac up there but I don't think his upside is that high, he'll be a 3&D 4, not a wing creator or something, so yeah that'd be my list. And I will admit I haven't seen nearly as much of these guys as you but I have seen a few games of all the top prospects as well as quite a bit of film/cuts/draftexpress videos/youtube highlights and read a lot of scouting reports and such. That'd be my prediction for the future and thus also my big board probably.


I am definitely a little lower on Fultz than most and I will be the first to acknowledge Im in the minority with that thinking. I think Fultz is a good passer, I just dont think he has the facilitating mindset, I think he has a score 1st, 2nd and 3rd mindset. Which is totally fine with me because he is a fantastic scorer.

But I totally see why you and others have him at #1. Again I find it very difficult to argue these top 5 guys because I think they all have legit claims as being the top guy. Even before the year I thought this was a class where you could make an argument for 5-6 guys for the top pick. Giles was the 6th guy and as the season played out we saw that was no longer the case. But these 5 guys are all legit. I think its really splitting hairs and more what style of player you like between the 5 of them.

Well I still can't act like I saw a bunch more of him than you but I did watch as much washington as I could (had some pac-12 network access being on the west-coast) and saw about 8 or 9 full games as well as a lot of tape of him so I'm more confident on him than most. I think in the right system he will be a shockingly good facilitator. He averaged 6 apg when guys would literally just fumble the ball away or brick wide open 3s constantly, and he still tried to get them the ball. I think his score 1st mentality did manifest itself at times as a result of being sick to death of watching his great set-ups come to nothing, anyone would. I think people really undervalue just how awful that team was aside from him and how that would affect anyone's play. In a system like Boston where you have a ton of good finishers just waiting for someone to create for them, I would honestly not be surprised if in his 3rd year he's starting, they've let IT go, and he's averaging 22/5/8 and leading them deep in the playoffs. Idk, we'll see but I really believe you get him with a bunch of good players, complimentary players, and an awesome coach who will force him to be an unselfish guy who makes the right play whether for himself or teammates, he'll blossom way beyond the craziness we saw in college this year.

Sorry to derail a DSJ thread with Fultz talk, but I think they're actually really similar in this aspect, both have a lot of ? because they played for bad teams in rough situations with poor coaches and both clearly gave up defensively and at times loafed or didn't give full effort or make the smart/best plays. Is that a defect of their character/play-style that will continue in the nba or is it situational, temporary and destined to change drastically when they enter a much better situation. I'm not sure but I'm betting on the latter in both cases because I actually do think those two have tools and abilities beyond the rest of this class. I'm not huge on Tatum becoming an amazing wing scorer, a modern melo or something, and if he's not that what is he? A slightly better Rudy Gay? I'm just not sure what he's actually great at that has a ton of value in the modern game. JJ I think the shot is a huge concern, Ball I don't think can be a primary scorer/attacker off the dribble. He'll be great, I do think a slightly better shooting Jason Kidd is very likely, the kid is basically a basketball genius by all acounts and I just don't see how that doesn't work so I like him at 3 cause his floor is pretty darn high to me. I mean a better shooting, worse defending Rubio is really his floor in my mind and that's a valuable player. So I do have a prettty clear 1-3, 4-6 is murky with the wings for me Tatum/JJ/Issac. After that it gets much murkier for me, I don't how I feel about most of the later lottery guys, Lauri I like but can he play defense or is he a limited, situational big? Frank N I'm just not sure about, is a he a pg? Can he be a true 2? Monk should be a very solid pickup in the 8-10 range but a disaster if he goes like 3 as some are predicting. Idk I'm derailing again, better quit while I'm... just this far behind... :lol: :lol:

But yeah, Love DSJ, if someone gets him in the 8-10 range (please don't be sacto, worst situation for him) they're going to get a massive, franchise changing steal in my mind. He would wreak absolute havoc in Dallas, that dude with Carlisle? That's a future top 10 player man, okay maybe 15 but seriously that would be great. If they take Frank N over him they're nuts. Hoping he comes off before 9 though, he'd make a ton of sense in Orlando where they can move Payton to the backup role he belongs in. I'd take him at 3 if I were philly or 4 if I were Phoenix but that doesn't seem to be the vibe out there so we'll see. Hoping the best for the kid, I think he's misunderstood and will really explode if he gets the right situation.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#326 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:48 pm

damecurry wrote:Well I still can't act like I saw a bunch more of him than you but I did watch as much washington as I could (had some pac-12 network access being on the west-coast) and saw about 8 or 9 full games as well as a lot of tape of him so I'm more confident on him than most. I think in the right system he will be a shockingly good facilitator. He averaged 6 apg when guys would literally just fumble the ball away or brick wide open 3s constantly, and he still tried to get them the ball. I think his score 1st mentality did manifest itself at times as a result of being sick to death of watching his great set-ups come to nothing, anyone would. I think people really undervalue just how awful that team was aside from him and how that would affect anyone's play. In a system like Boston where you have a ton of good finishers just waiting for someone to create for them, I would honestly not be surprised if in his 3rd year he's starting, they've let IT go, and he's averaging 22/5/8 and leading them deep in the playoffs. Idk, we'll see but I really believe you get him with a bunch of good players, complimentary players, and an awesome coach who will force him to be an unselfish guy who makes the right play whether for himself or teammates, he'll blossom way beyond the craziness we saw in college this year.

Sorry to derail a DSJ thread with Fultz talk, but I think they're actually really similar in this aspect, both have a lot of ? because they played for bad teams in rough situations with poor coaches and both clearly gave up defensively and at times loafed or didn't give full effort or make the smart/best plays. Is that a defect of their character/play-style that will continue in the nba or is it situational, temporary and destined to change drastically when they enter a much better situation. I'm not sure but I'm betting on the latter in both cases because I actually do think those two have tools and abilities beyond the rest of this class. I'm not huge on Tatum becoming an amazing wing scorer, a modern melo or something, and if he's not that what is he? A slightly better Rudy Gay? I'm just not sure what he's actually great at that has a ton of value in the modern game. JJ I think the shot is a huge concern, Ball I don't think can be a primary scorer/attacker off the dribble. He'll be great, I do think a slightly better shooting Jason Kidd is very likely, the kid is basically a basketball genius by all acounts and I just don't see how that doesn't work so I like him at 3 cause his floor is pretty darn high to me. I mean a better shooting, worse defending Rubio is really his floor in my mind and that's a valuable player. So I do have a prettty clear 1-3, 4-6 is murky with the wings for me Tatum/JJ/Issac. After that it gets much murkier for me, I don't how I feel about most of the later lottery guys, Lauri I like but can he play defense or is he a limited, situational big? Frank N I'm just not sure about, is a he a pg? Can he be a true 2? Monk should be a very solid pickup in the 8-10 range but a disaster if he goes like 3 as some are predicting. Idk I'm derailing again, better quit while I'm... just this far behind... :lol: :lol:

But yeah, Love DSJ, if someone gets him in the 8-10 range (please don't be sacto, worst situation for him) they're going to get a massive, franchise changing steal in my mind. He would wreak absolute havoc in Dallas, that dude with Carlisle? That's a future top 10 player man, okay maybe 15 but seriously that would be great. If they take Frank N over him they're nuts. Hoping he comes off before 9 though, he'd make a ton of sense in Orlando where they can move Payton to the backup role he belongs in. I'd take him at 3 if I were philly or 4 if I were Phoenix but that doesn't seem to be the vibe out there so we'll see. Hoping the best for the kid, I think he's misunderstood and will really explode if he gets the right situation.


I do agree both are similar where I almost just put both of their seasons as a wash. 2 weeks into the season you saw how obvious it was that both guys were on terrible teams (obvious prior to the season) and were massive fish in tiny ponds. We didnt get to see how they would play when they are playing alongside people the same (or close) caliber as them.

Again I think Fultz has good vision and good passing ability. I look at him like Russell, Kyrie, Lillard and IT. I think all of thsoe guys have decent to good vision and passing (especially Russell) but all of them are wired as score first guys. I think youre in great shape if theyre your secondary facilitator, its just that theyre wired to score first even if they have good vision and passing ability. I think Fultz is going to fall into that group of guys as well. Fultz has always been a score-first guy, even in high school and international play. But who knows you maybe right and he surprises me.

Im also with you with DSJ to Dallas. Ive been saying DSJ to Dallas or Miami would be best case scenario for him as a player and for those teams. Carlisle would do amazing things with him and in Miami Spo would coach him up as well and a PnR combo with him and Whiteside would be filthy.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#327 » by damecurry » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:55 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Im also with you with DSJ to Dallas. Ive been saying DSJ to Dallas or Miami would be best case scenario for him as a player and for those teams. Carlisle would do amazing things with him and in Miami Spo would coach him up as well and a PnR combo with him and Whiteside would be filthy.


I don't think it's gonna happen but if Dallas somehow found a way to walk away from draft night with DSJ and Lauri Markkanen I think they would just absolutely destory draft night and be the clear winners down the road. Because Lauri can spend a year or 2 learning directly from Dirk how to make his game work at this level, then take over for him, and play next to Nerlens who I blieve would basically be a perfect foil for all of Lauri's issues and visa-versa, I think they'd be amazing together and if you've got DSJ at the point of attack coordinating everything, dear god that could be nasty a few years from now. HB could move back towards his 3&D GSW role and that group would really be set up well imo.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#328 » by Marcus » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:20 pm

damecurry wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Im also with you with DSJ to Dallas. Ive been saying DSJ to Dallas or Miami would be best case scenario for him as a player and for those teams. Carlisle would do amazing things with him and in Miami Spo would coach him up as well and a PnR combo with him and Whiteside would be filthy.


I don't think it's gonna happen but if Dallas somehow found a way to walk away from draft night with DSJ and Lauri Markkanen I think they would just absolutely destory draft night and be the clear winners down the road. Because Lauri can spend a year or 2 learning directly from Dirk how to make his game work at this level, then take over for him, and play next to Nerlens who I blieve would basically be a perfect foil for all of Lauri's issues and visa-versa, I think they'd be amazing together and if you've got DSJ at the point of attack coordinating everything, dear god that could be nasty a few years from now. HB could move back towards his 3&D GSW role and that group would really be set up well imo.


that sounds friggin amazing actually.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#329 » by reanimator » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:58 pm

Best collegiate years:

Fultz 35.5 AST%/13.4 TOV on a crappy high major squad at 18/19

Russell 30.1 AST%/ 14.8 TOV on a high major tournament team at 18/19

Kyrie 29.8 AST%/ 16.4 TOV on a loaded high major tournament team in 11 games at 18/19

Lillard 27.1 AST%/ 10.7 TOV on a 25-7 team in a mid major conference at 21/22

IT 32.7 AST%/ 16.6 TOV on a high major tournament team at 20/21

In HS, Fultz was thought of as a utility guard, not a gunner FYI. Surrounded by less talent, less spacing, and generally younger than these comps yet a higher assist rate and lower turnover rate. Some will be shocked in the future, I'm guessing.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#330 » by reanimator » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:27 am

Also, if you think DSJ is decisively the best PnR PG in this draft:

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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#331 » by doordoor123 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:32 am

Marcus wrote:
damecurry wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Im also with you with DSJ to Dallas. Ive been saying DSJ to Dallas or Miami would be best case scenario for him as a player and for those teams. Carlisle would do amazing things with him and in Miami Spo would coach him up as well and a PnR combo with him and Whiteside would be filthy.


I don't think it's gonna happen but if Dallas somehow found a way to walk away from draft night with DSJ and Lauri Markkanen I think they would just absolutely destory draft night and be the clear winners down the road. Because Lauri can spend a year or 2 learning directly from Dirk how to make his game work at this level, then take over for him, and play next to Nerlens who I blieve would basically be a perfect foil for all of Lauri's issues and visa-versa, I think they'd be amazing together and if you've got DSJ at the point of attack coordinating everything, dear god that could be nasty a few years from now. HB could move back towards his 3&D GSW role and that group would really be set up well imo.


that sounds friggin amazing actually.


If the Mavericks get Jrue Holiday do they still draft a guard?
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#332 » by damecurry » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:38 am

doordoor123 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
damecurry wrote:
I don't think it's gonna happen but if Dallas somehow found a way to walk away from draft night with DSJ and Lauri Markkanen I think they would just absolutely destory draft night and be the clear winners down the road. Because Lauri can spend a year or 2 learning directly from Dirk how to make his game work at this level, then take over for him, and play next to Nerlens who I blieve would basically be a perfect foil for all of Lauri's issues and visa-versa, I think they'd be amazing together and if you've got DSJ at the point of attack coordinating everything, dear god that could be nasty a few years from now. HB could move back towards his 3&D GSW role and that group would really be set up well imo.


that sounds friggin amazing actually.


If the Mavericks get Jrue Holiday do they still draft a guard?

The draft happens before FA does so your question doesn't make sense.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#333 » by doordoor123 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:15 am

damecurry wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
that sounds friggin amazing actually.


If the Mavericks get Jrue Holiday do they still draft a guard?

The draft happens before FA does so your question doesn't make sense.


Yes, but its been reported both Jrue and his brother could go to the Mavericks. Would the Mavericks draft a point guard to make them a back up? Or would they want them to start? Why does that rumor exist if they've been talking about drafting a point guard? Maybe the rumor is false then. But I think the Mavericks want to compete right now with Dirk's career dwindling and I don't think they could do that by starting a rookie point guard.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#334 » by Pinkyring » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:07 am

doordoor123 wrote:
damecurry wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
If the Mavericks get Jrue Holiday do they still draft a guard?

The draft happens before FA does so your question doesn't make sense.


Yes, but its been reported both Jrue and his brother could go to the Mavericks. Would the Mavericks draft a point guard to make them a back up? Or would they want them to start? Why does that rumor exist if they've been talking about drafting a point guard? Maybe the rumor is false then. But I think the Mavericks want to compete right now with Dirk's career dwindling and I don't think they could do that by starting a rookie point guard.

If we draft monk or nkilina yes because both can play off ball ifwe draft smith then probably not fwiw i been callimg jrue ro dallas for months
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#335 » by damecurry » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:21 am

doordoor123 wrote:
damecurry wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
If the Mavericks get Jrue Holiday do they still draft a guard?

The draft happens before FA does so your question doesn't make sense.


Yes, but its been reported both Jrue and his brother could go to the Mavericks. Would the Mavericks draft a point guard to make them a back up? Or would they want them to start? Why does that rumor exist if they've been talking about drafting a point guard? Maybe the rumor is false then. But I think the Mavericks want to compete right now with Dirk's career dwindling and I don't think they could do that by starting a rookie point guard.

I'm sorry, I don't base my plans around rumors about who may or may not potentially be interested in possibly coming to my team in FA. That stuff is incredibly nebulous and changes constantly, Maybe they both want to go there today and tomorrow they both decide to team up in NO instead? I would draft the best player that makes sense on my team which is almost anyone for Dal as they are very up in the air, Carlisle has a history of bringing the best out of PGs and Smith is a potential franchise piece in my mind, Jrue Holiday is most certainly not, so no I would not let any potential FA rumors of any kind dictate my decisions on draft night but that's just me I guess.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#336 » by Novocaine » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:37 am

reanimator wrote:Best collegiate years:

Fultz 35.5 AST%/13.4 TOV on a crappy high major squad at 18/19

Russell 30.1 AST%/ 14.8 TOV on a high major tournament team at 18/19

Kyrie 29.8 AST%/ 16.4 TOV on a loaded high major tournament team in 11 games at 18/19

Lillard 27.1 AST%/ 10.7 TOV on a 25-7 team in a mid major conference at 21/22

IT 32.7 AST%/ 16.6 TOV on a high major tournament team at 20/21

In HS, Fultz was thought of as a utility guard, not a gunner FYI. Surrounded by less talent, less spacing, and generally younger than these comps yet a higher assist rate and lower turnover rate. Some will be shocked in the future, I'm guessing.


Don't think Ast/Tov rates are particularly enlightening statistics to make the point, but Fultz is arguably the best passer in this draft and very likely the best passer off the pick'n'roll. And he's not only a creative passer, he's also a very altruistic player. He's the kind of player who will pass on an open shot for himself to pass the ball to a better positioned teammate- say, not shoot an open midranger to pass the pall to an opean teammate in the corner. I feel bamboozled that others see Fultz so drastically differently. To me he's a better passer and a far better game-manager than DSJ - and DSJ isn't horrible.

What worries me more about DSJ is his jump-shot. I think there are way too many moving parts and bad habits. Sometimes he shoots with both his elbows sticking out in a very wide angle.I feel there's a disconnect between his mechanics and his shooting % and that in the long run, mechanics will win out (till he fixes them, hopefully). Also, while he's a very good slasher (actually quite better than Fultzs, imo), he isn't a great finisher. Way too many and unnecessary acrobatics. Makes life hard on himself.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#337 » by NightmanCometh » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:19 am

Are there anybody who's feeling totally split on projecting DSJ and Fox? I feel almost dizzy at this stage in trying to anyalyse the talent pool.


Longtime observer around these parts. Just thought i'd throw that personal anecdote in there like it matters.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#338 » by toussaud » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:44 am

i ain't go lie

i have never seen DS jr play. ever. every time i tried to watch him either he was hurt or they were getting blown out or a better game was on., talk about a kid who made the absoute wrong decision to go to a school.

i just made myself watch his highlights and half way through i had to cut it off. i'm a believer.

if i were boston, i would take josh jackson because. i like fox more than smith still, but but if not, there is no world where i take MF over smith jr.

maybe questions about his attitude i don't know. he is an elite athlete.

this is the tyep of kid that has to go to the perfect org. if you put him in miami he will be all nba in 4 years. if you put him in brooklyn he will be a trouble maker
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#339 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:50 am

toussaud wrote:i ain't go lie

i have never seen DS jr play. ever. every time i tried to watch him either he was hurt or they were getting blown out or a better game was on., talk about a kid who made the absoute wrong decision to go to a school.

i just made myself watch his highlights and half way through i had to cut it off. i'm a believer.

if i were boston, i would take josh jackson because. i like fox more than smith still, but but if not, there is no world where i take MF over smith jr.

maybe questions about his attitude i don't know. he is an elite athlete.

this is the tyep of kid that has to go to the perfect org. if you put him in miami he will be all nba in 4 years. if you put him in brooklyn he will be a trouble maker


A lot of talk that Adidas kind of forced his decision to State. Its not really talked about all that much but shoe companies can play a pretty big role for some of these players for what school they choose. DSJ's AAU team were an adidas team and State is an Adidas school. It was pretty well known that he wanted to stay in state, I know Duke was pushing really hard for him then basically just stopped all of a sudden. Duke and UNC are both Nike schools.

He definitely didnt handle the State situation well, but that was one of the more dysfunctional programs I have seen in a long time. Definitely something to keep in mind, but still holding out hope he wont be a negative for a locker room for wherever he goes. He does have a great reputation with everyone he plays with, has always been a really popular guy with the rest of the kids in this class.
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Re: Dennis Smith Jr 

Post#340 » by cksdayoff » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:24 am

markelle futz shoots better than dsj in all 3 levels. shoots better off the dribble as well, I believe.

dsj is more athletic, and has better handles.
#failforfultz

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