Zion Williamson

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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1441 » by Zeitgeister » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:48 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Ambrose wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Gronk ran 4.6, Peppers ran 4.7. I also think you can count on 1 hand the guys on Zion's level athletically.


Gronk ran a 4.68 at 264 lbs. Peppers ran a 4.68 at 283. Myles Garrett is probably Zion's best comparison running a 4.64 at 272 but he still didn't do it.


I think you definitely make a fair point. I do think Zion is a rare athlete even compared to these guys. But ya it is definitely rare for a guy his size to get below 4.6. With that said I think everyone can be in agreement that Shannon and Skip are really off questioning if Zion could crack sub 5 for the 40.


Brock Lesnar ran a sub 5 40 at 300 lbs, no question Zion would do that and more.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1442 » by Zeitgeister » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:04 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
InTheNBADraft wrote:I feel like there's no way he doesn't tear his ACL at some point. I hope to death he stays healthy for a long time, but his size, his leaping ability, and his style of play, it always happens.


He's really not all that much heavier than LeBron was in Miami. LeBron has had no knee issues in his career.


While this is true, he's 18 years old, so it stands to reason that he will get considerably bigger unless he's really careful about his diet. LeBron came into the NBA at 245 lbs not 265.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1443 » by bigboi » Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:05 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ambrose wrote:
Gronk ran a 4.68 at 264 lbs. Peppers ran a 4.68 at 283. Myles Garrett is probably Zion's best comparison running a 4.64 at 272 but he still didn't do it.


I think you definitely make a fair point. I do think Zion is a rare athlete even compared to these guys. But ya it is definitely rare for a guy his size to get below 4.6. With that said I think everyone can be in agreement that Shannon and Skip are really off questioning if Zion could crack sub 5 for the 40.


Brock Lesnar ran a sub 5 40 at 300 lbs, no question Zion would do that and more.


I think Zion could get sub 5, that said NBA aren’t as fast as you guys think. The NBA court magnifies everything significantly. I think Zion is a freak, but he wouldn’t look nearly as athletic as he does on the court. Remember that there are some legit Olympic level sprinters in the NFL.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1444 » by Hoopz Afrik » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Coeur wrote:Of course Zion would fit any team and any roster, but which potential lottery contestants would be the best fits FOR Zion?

Suns: between booker and Ayton could be pretty fun to see esp if the ever got a good guard to play with them

Knicks: freak next to freak could be awesome. You know the NBA would love this

Dallas: doncic and Zion could be really interesting. I still am a believer in dsj.



Really don't want to see him in the mess that is Atlanta, Sacramento, or Memphis. Orlando I can't figure out if they're too much of a mess to get him either


Atlanta would be a great fit for him and I think he'd really flourish alongside the youth they have (Trae, Collins, T-Prince, Huerter, and Spellman) and the direction that Lloyd Pierce and Travis Schlenk are taking this team. I hope he ends up in Atlanta....but if not then Dallas, New York, Phoenix, and Brooklyn would make me happy as well. I just want him to flourish.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1445 » by clyde21 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:52 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
InTheNBADraft wrote:I feel like there's no way he doesn't tear his ACL at some point. I hope to death he stays healthy for a long time, but his size, his leaping ability, and his style of play, it always happens.


He's really not all that much heavier than LeBron was in Miami. LeBron has had no knee issues in his career.


While this is true, he's 18 years old, so it stands to reason that he will get considerably bigger unless he's really careful about his diet. LeBron came into the NBA at 245 lbs not 265.


Not necessarily true. He hasn't hit an NBA program training and nutrition program yet. There's no reason to think this dude is just gonna balloon.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1446 » by NDave79 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:04 pm

Coeur wrote:Of course Zion would fit any team and any roster, but which potential lottery contestants would be the best fits FOR Zion?

Suns: between booker and Ayton could be pretty fun to see esp if the ever got a good guard to play with them

Knicks: freak next to freak could be awesome. You know the NBA would love this

Dallas: doncic and Zion could be really interesting. I still am a believer in dsj.



Really don't want to see him in the mess that is Atlanta, Sacramento, or Memphis. Orlando I can't figure out if they're too much of a mess to get him either


I'm a Bulls fan, so maybe I'm biased, but I think he could be an interesting fit with Lavine, Markkanen and Wendell Carter. Here is a post I just put on the Bulls board regarding Zion.

NDave79 wrote:I think it's likely that Zion ends up as more of a 4, but it is hard to predict imo because he is such an unusual physical specimen.

Also, who knows what he is going to look like working with NBA trainers and nutritionists. It looks like he has already made big strides since high school. Maybe he ends up being a ripped 255-260 pound piece of granite. I'm guessing that's around what Lebron's playing weight has been most of his career.

If he can get in great shape, I think he might be best off defending 3's as it appears he has quick feet and his lack of length would be less of an issue.

I also think that the current Bulls core is an intriguing fit for Zion at the 3.

Lauri and Wendell would provide spacing for Zion (Wendell has been a little off lately, but I am confident he will become a legit threat from range) on the offensive end to attack the basket and then defensively they all have good size and quick feet so the three of them could defensively switch with each other without compromising much.

There are some things that make me a little nervous about Zion, but as of now, I don't see how you can risk passing on him.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1447 » by Marcus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:25 pm

Thoughts on the SDSU game are as follows.

liked the way he handled the doubles for the most part, when he took his time he made the right play more than not. He needs to learn to attack with his head up considering the blitz he may see this year when he catches it on the block because rest assured this will be the blueprint for Zion going forward. He progressively did a better job picking his spots on the drives to the basket. The vision was there as usual. The extra effort was there as well. He answered another question for me here similar to the 2nd half of the Army game, what happens when he's not scoring? he does other things, set picks, extra effort on the glass, didn't force offense and made the right passes. Understood who had it going and got the ball around.

I still absolutely hate his general lack of fundamentals on defense and with rebounding. Since these are things that he can be taught at the next level and he probably won't be taught at this current one this is something that will irk me to no end this year, i can feel it. Way too upright in his stance which takes away from his mobility. Closeouts lack effort but he makes up for it with athleticism, gets lost when he's not targeted on the ball, only really engaged when there's a play to be made. THAT is the most glaring irritation in the whole thing because he makes plays seemingly without trying. he had a couple steals last night when he was wayyyyy outta position and he just happened to reach out or dart in the direction of the pass. If this kid buckled down and played completely locked in on the defensive end of the floor he has ALL the tools outside of height to be a real problem on that side of the floor.

With rebounding I honestly watch and wonder if this kid has any idea that he's between 270 - 280 lbs. A box out would go an extremely long way with this kid.

I feel like i might be nitpicking because he's sooooo young but I see where he can be if he sat down and put the effort in completely and he's essentially just scratching the surface on that end despite the numbers.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1448 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:35 pm

Marcus wrote:Thoughts on the SDSU game are as follows.

liked the way he handled the doubles for the most part, when he took his time he made the right play more than not. He needs to learn to attack with his head up considering the blitz he may see this year when he catches it on the block because rest assured this will be the blueprint for Zion going forward. He progressively did a better job picking his spots on the drives to the basket. The vision was there as usual. The extra effort was there as well. He answered another question for me here similar to the 2nd half of the Army game, what happens when he's not scoring? he does other things, set picks, extra effort on the glass, didn't force offense and made the right passes. Understood who had it going and got the ball around.

I still absolutely hate his general lack of fundamentals on defense and with rebounding. Since these are things that he can be taught at the next level and he probably won't be taught at this current one this is something that will irk me to no end this year, i can feel it. Way too upright in his stance which takes away from his mobility. Closeouts lack effort but he makes up for it with athleticism, gets lost when he's not targeted on the ball, only really engaged when there's a play to be made. THAT is the most glaring irritation in the whole thing because he makes plays seemingly without trying. he had a couple steals last night when he was wayyyyy outta position and he just happened to reach out or dart in the direction of the pass. If this kid buckled down and played completely locked in on the defensive end of the floor he has ALL the tools outside of height to be a real problem on that side of the floor.

With rebounding I honestly watch and wonder if this kid has any idea that he's between 270 - 280 lbs. A box out would go an extremely long way with this kid.

I feel like i might be nitpicking because he's sooooo young but I see where he can be if he sat down and put the effort in completely and he's essentially just scratching the surface on that end despite the numbers.


Agreed with all of this. Im not sure Ive seen him box out once this year. The dude could end up being an elite rebounder on the NBA level if he boxes out (even without out that, he will still probably be an 8+ a game type guy). Defensively like the first possession of the game I saw him kind of get into a defensive crouch, but was never seen again. His defense only relies on his athleticism and nothing more at the moment. But he is such a freak athlete that he ends up making 7-10 huge defensive plays a game.

But the weird thing is, things like the two things above is also one of the reasons I have him creeping near that AD/KD/Oden level of prospect. If he adds some of these fundamentals to his game, I can see huge improvements to his game which is crazy to think about. He also doesnt have the work ethic questions or is head screwed on right questions like you got from guys like Michael Beasley. Yesterday SDSU clearly gameplanned on stopping Zion and even with that and in just 18 minutes of play, the dude still made a really big impact.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1449 » by Marcus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:03 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:Thoughts on the SDSU game are as follows.

liked the way he handled the doubles for the most part, when he took his time he made the right play more than not. He needs to learn to attack with his head up considering the blitz he may see this year when he catches it on the block because rest assured this will be the blueprint for Zion going forward. He progressively did a better job picking his spots on the drives to the basket. The vision was there as usual. The extra effort was there as well. He answered another question for me here similar to the 2nd half of the Army game, what happens when he's not scoring? he does other things, set picks, extra effort on the glass, didn't force offense and made the right passes. Understood who had it going and got the ball around.

I still absolutely hate his general lack of fundamentals on defense and with rebounding. Since these are things that he can be taught at the next level and he probably won't be taught at this current one this is something that will irk me to no end this year, i can feel it. Way too upright in his stance which takes away from his mobility. Closeouts lack effort but he makes up for it with athleticism, gets lost when he's not targeted on the ball, only really engaged when there's a play to be made. THAT is the most glaring irritation in the whole thing because he makes plays seemingly without trying. he had a couple steals last night when he was wayyyyy outta position and he just happened to reach out or dart in the direction of the pass. If this kid buckled down and played completely locked in on the defensive end of the floor he has ALL the tools outside of height to be a real problem on that side of the floor.

With rebounding I honestly watch and wonder if this kid has any idea that he's between 270 - 280 lbs. A box out would go an extremely long way with this kid.

I feel like i might be nitpicking because he's sooooo young but I see where he can be if he sat down and put the effort in completely and he's essentially just scratching the surface on that end despite the numbers.


Agreed with all of this. Im not sure Ive seen him box out once this year. The dude could end up being an elite rebounder on the NBA level if he boxes out (even without out that, he will still probably be an 8+ a game type guy). Defensively like the first possession of the game I saw him kind of get into a defensive crouch, but was never seen again. His defense only relies on his athleticism and nothing more at the moment. But he is such a freak athlete that he ends up making 7-10 huge defensive plays a game.

But the weird thing is, things like the two things above is also one of the reasons I have him creeping near that AD/KD/Oden level of prospect. If he adds some of these fundamentals to his game, I can see huge improvements to his game which is crazy to think about. He also doesnt have the work ethic questions or is head screwed on right questions like you got from guys like Michael Beasley. Yesterday SDSU clearly gameplanned on stopping Zion and even with that and in just 18 minutes of play, the dude still made a really big impact.


i'm just glad somebody understands my conflict frustration lol. Just some fundamentals will take this kid a longggggg way. I'm just hoping wherever he lands he lands in a spot with some good coaching.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1450 » by azcatz11 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:51 am

Zion coming on in 9 min!
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1451 » by Chi town » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:33 am

I think he can play 3-5 in the league.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1452 » by reanimator » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:41 am

I think ball control might be a far bigger issue than shooting in terms of his viability as an on ball playmaker at the next level.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1453 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:52 am

Rough night for Zion's handle. He didn't handle the pressure defense well tonight.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1454 » by No-Man » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:01 am

reanimator wrote:I think ball control might be a far bigger issue than shooting in terms of his viability as an on ball playmaker at the next level.

agreed, I mean Duke isn't the best setting for him to have a huge role as a shot-creator, but I don't think he can really do it unless it's in transition at this point, that's gonna be a knock on him, he is just not that natural, he can still be the best prospect out there without that though

I'd like to see a shooters+Zion+DeLaurier line-up to see if he can pull it off for some possessions in a row, but I highly doubt K ever goes there
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1455 » by Hoopz Afrik » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:11 pm

He's come back down to Earth in Maui and I think that's a good thing for him. He looked really out of sorts against Auburn with some of those turnovers and like a few of you all mentioned, had some trouble creating with the ball in his hands early.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1456 » by Marcus » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:07 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Rough night for Zion's handle. He didn't handle the pressure defense well tonight.


Forced more tonight than i'm used to seeing from him and he was definitely pressing to get something going in that game. Never really looked engaged in this game, spirits stayed high but he looked like he was willing to take the backseat. That being said he's a 18 year old kid that being loaded up on. It's good he's seeing this early and hopefully it leads to him making some adjustments, just add this to the data bank and figure out the best ways to play it because it won't be the last time your going to see it in your basketball life young man.

those fundamentals though?!!!! sheesh, just having and using those basics would make his game last night look much MUCH different.

I'd put him on a scale and in a mirror daily to remind him he's massive and it's ok to use it.

Sidenote: You can't tell me this isn't who Bolden was supposed to be when he signed to Duke. Last night was ri friggin diculous.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1457 » by Duke4life831 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:22 pm

Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Rough night for Zion's handle. He didn't handle the pressure defense well tonight.


Forced more tonight than i'm used to seeing from him and he was definitely pressing to get something going in that game. Never really looked engaged in this game, spirits stayed high but he looked like he was willing to take the backseat. That being said he's a 18 year old kid that being loaded up on. It's good he's seeing this early and hopefully it leads to him making some adjustments, just add this to the data bank and figure out the best ways to play it because it won't be the last time your going to see it in your basketball life young man.

those fundamentals though?!!!! sheesh, just having and using those basics would make his game last night look much MUCH different.

I'd put him on a scale and in a mirror daily to remind him he's massive and it's ok to use it.

Sidenote: You can't tell me this isn't who Bolden was supposed to be when he signed to Duke. Last night was ri friggin diculous.


Ya I'm not knocking Zion as a prospect because of last night's game. Last night just didn't look like his night. There was a stretch where he just couldn't put the ball on the court comfortably it looked like. We have all seen his handle and know it's better than what he showed last night. I just think last night was an off night, happens to everyone. I mean there were a solid amount of early AD games at UK where he didn't have his biggest impact and was way more quiet than you would've liked. So ya I think this brutal non conference schedule (one of the toughest I can remember) is going to be good for Zion.

Bolden last night was the definition of bittersweet. Where has that been!! That was the Bolden that was talked about his senior year and summer heading into Duke when he was shooting up recruiting rankings. I kept hearing how he was going to be the college version of Whiteside. Teams wouldn't be able to go inside the paint with him. For 2 freaking years I've been waiting to see a glimpse of this. Last night in that 2nd half, he just flat out said, ya you guys aren't getting anymore shots off in the paint. If Duke just gets 80% of that Bolden for the rest of the year, watch out. 1-5 we will be set.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1458 » by Marcus » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:30 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Rough night for Zion's handle. He didn't handle the pressure defense well tonight.


Forced more tonight than i'm used to seeing from him and he was definitely pressing to get something going in that game. Never really looked engaged in this game, spirits stayed high but he looked like he was willing to take the backseat. That being said he's a 18 year old kid that being loaded up on. It's good he's seeing this early and hopefully it leads to him making some adjustments, just add this to the data bank and figure out the best ways to play it because it won't be the last time your going to see it in your basketball life young man.

those fundamentals though?!!!! sheesh, just having and using those basics would make his game last night look much MUCH different.

I'd put him on a scale and in a mirror daily to remind him he's massive and it's ok to use it.

Sidenote: You can't tell me this isn't who Bolden was supposed to be when he signed to Duke. Last night was ri friggin diculous.


Ya I'm not knocking Zion as a prospect because of last night's game. Last night just didn't look like his night. There was a stretch where he just couldn't put the ball on the court comfortably it looked like. We have all seen his handle and know it's better than what he showed last night. I just think last night was an off night, happens to everyone. I mean there were a solid amount of early AD games at UK where he didn't have his biggest impact and was way more quiet than you would've liked. So ya I think this brutal non conference schedule (one of the toughest I can remember) is going to be good for Zion.

Bolden last night was the definition of bittersweet. Where has that been!! That was the Bolden that was talked about his senior year and summer heading into Duke when he was shooting up recruiting rankings. I kept hearing how he was going to be the college version of Whiteside. Teams wouldn't be able to go inside the paint with him. For 2 freaking years I've been waiting to see a glimpse of this. Last night in that 2nd half, he just flat out said, ya you guys aren't getting anymore shots off in the paint. If Duke just gets 80% of that Bolden for the rest of the year, watch out. 1-5 we will be set.



BRUH!!!!

The block and then leak out in transition had me crying thug tears. He looked like an NBA prospect last night lol. Bilas has been running that health angle for a few games now. If Bolden can sell that to potential NBA teams and keep THIS type of play up. Ya never know, which is absolutely insane to say about this kid at this point because he had lost cause written all over him. At this rate he might find himself with his own thread around here lol.

anyway

sorry for the derail fellas. Back on topic, I agree with you, I'm not downing Zion for this performance, I just saw a young kid not fully engaged and he didn't present any new weaknesses to me. So i'll just say 1 mediocre and 2 bad games now and you still can't say he didn't have any impact in those 3 so, yeah, still onboard.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1459 » by The-Power » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:40 am

On offense, I liked his free throw shooting but for most of the game, I just didn't see a great offensive NBA player. Effective by seizing opportunities and exploiting scrambled defenses? Absolutely, but this doesn't appear to be all that reliable. Then he had this one drive to the rim and showed a glimpse of being unstoppable towards the rim. I hope he can do this more consistently, but for now I consider it much more likely that he'll become an opportunistic scorer and playmaker – even though his athleticism will provide him with some more opportunities than most others – than a go-to player.

Could very well end up #1 on my board but as I wrote before, I just don't see a generational talent. Actually, I'd probably peg him as maybe an average first pick at best at the moment compared to previous years. Obviously still a very good prospect, though.
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Re: Zion Williamson 

Post#1460 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:55 am

The-Power wrote:On offense, I liked his free throw shooting but for most of the game, I just didn't see a great offensive NBA player. Effective by seizing opportunities and exploiting scrambled defenses? Absolutely, but this doesn't appear to be all that reliable. Then he had this one drive to the rim and showed a glimpse of being unstoppable towards the rim. I hope he can do this more consistently, but for now I consider it much more likely that he'll become an opportunistic scorer and playmaker – even though his athleticism will provide him with some more opportunities than most others – than a go-to player.

Could very well end up #1 on my board but as I wrote before, I just don't see a generational talent. Actually, I'd probably peg him as maybe an average first pick at best at the moment compared to previous years. Obviously still a very good prospect, though.
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