Zach Collins

[No-Man]

Zach and John Collins could both end up in the 2017 lotto - both favorites of mine. I'd like to see Zach wait a year so he can add a year of physical maturity and confidence.

I literally see 0 venue for John Collins to end up in the lotto honestly.
Zach could, but he needs to show improvement in several areas, his awareness isnt there and his effort isnt the same on one side than on the other, same with and without touches.
his archetype doesnt really help his case either.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I know that you're your own biggest fan and I've never seen you admit that you're wrong about something, but you're dead wrong about this. One of ZC's best assets is his motor; he never quits. His awareness is uncanny for a true freshman. I've been a diehard Zag fan for 20 years and know that I'm predisposed to bias, but being objective, the only thing he has to work on is silly fouls (like most freshman) and building muscle (like most freshman).

I am not saying he doesnt have a motor, but he is a ball focused player and I think that's obvious in the way he plays on O particularly, I am big Gonzaga believer, had them 1st in my rankings preseason, and I like Zach, just think that he has to show more in terms of strength and physicality like you said, and for me bigs have to be elite to have enough leverage to go high, he is fairly similar to Patton, i like Justin's passing more, and neither does it for me just yet, so maybe with another year he could show those traits and I'd be comfortable with him in the lotto.

This is going to sound funny but you can find many examples of me saying how wrong I was about several topics, not a difficult find.

[pantalones]

I literally see 0 venue for John Collins to end up in the lotto honestly.
Zach could, but he needs to show improvement in several areas, his awareness isnt there and his effort isnt the same on one side than on the other, same with and without touches.
his archetype doesnt really help his case either.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I know that you're your own biggest fan and I've never seen you admit that you're wrong about something, but you're dead wrong about this. One of ZC's best assets is his motor; he never quits. His awareness is uncanny for a true freshman. I've been a diehard Zag fan for 20 years and know that I'm predisposed to bias, but being objective, the only thing he has to work on is silly fouls (like most freshman) and building muscle (like most freshman).

I am not saying he doesnt have a motor, but he is a ball focused player and I think that's obvious in the way he plays on O particularly, I am big Gonzaga believer, had them 1st in my rankings preseason, and I like Zach, just think that he has to show more in terms of strength and physicality like you said, and for me bigs have to be elite to have enough leverage to go high, he is fairly similar to Patton, i like Justin's passing more, and neither does it for me just yet, so maybe with another year he could show those traits and I'd be comfortable with him in the lotto.

This is going to sound funny but you can find many examples of me saying how wrong I was about several topics, not a difficult find.

Ok, fair enough. I just thought that you were dissing him unnecessarily. As a Zags fan, I hope that he comes back next season, but not confident now.

[Ruzious]

I literally see 0 venue for John Collins to end up in the lotto honestly.
Zach could, but he needs to show improvement in several areas, his awareness isnt there and his effort isnt the same on one side than on the other, same with and without touches.
his archetype doesnt really help his case either.

Changed your mind yet? He did what Tim Duncan never did in his 4 year Wake Forest career - scoring at least 20 points in 6 straight ACC games. This game he had his lowest FG% - 58.3%. He also had 11 boards and 5 blocks. He continues to get to the line better than any big in the country. You don't have him high - neither does NBAdraft.net (moved up to 1st pick in 2nd round) and draftexpress.com (moved up to 25th) - but I think he should go lotto. Folks are still sleeping on him.

[doordoor123]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I know that you're your own biggest fan and I've never seen you admit that you're wrong about something, but you're dead wrong about this. One of ZC's best assets is his motor; he never quits. His awareness is uncanny for a true freshman. I've been a diehard Zag fan for 20 years and know that I'm predisposed to bias, but being objective, the only thing he has to work on is silly fouls (like most freshman) and building muscle (like most freshman).

I am not saying he doesnt have a motor, but he is a ball focused player and I think that's obvious in the way he plays on O particularly, I am big Gonzaga believer, had them 1st in my rankings preseason, and I like Zach, just think that he has to show more in terms of strength and physicality like you said, and for me bigs have to be elite to have enough leverage to go high, he is fairly similar to Patton, i like Justin's passing more, and neither does it for me just yet, so maybe with another year he could show those traits and I'd be comfortable with him in the lotto.

This is going to sound funny but you can find many examples of me saying how wrong I was about several topics, not a difficult find.

Ok, fair enough. I just thought that you were dissing him unnecessarily. As a Zags fan, I hope that he comes back next season, but not confident now.

Not a huge John Collins fan, but I like Zach Collins. In this draft I would not take John Collins in th first round. Nothing particularly special about him that could make him stand out in the NBA and I'm not a fan of his body type.

Zach Collins is also not a lottery pick, especially since there are so many good bigs in the league now. Young centers aren't valuable unless they have upside because usually unless they can stretch the floor they take time to develop. Centers usually take more time to develop. Personally would not waste a lotto pick on a center in this draft. Would only take Justin Patton if I NEED a center by the end of the lotto. The guy I like most at center likely won't even be taken in the first round. I've been saying for a while even though he's inconsistent and has issues on defense, Thomas Bryant is going to translate in the NBA. I still think he's not being coached well and isn't learning the stuff he needs to learn. He has quick enough feet, can handle the ball a little, can shoot. Just needs to fine-tune his game. At times he has flashes and he has the wingspan/size. Might need time to develop though.

[Ruzious]

I am not saying he doesnt have a motor, but he is a ball focused player and I think that's obvious in the way he plays on O particularly, I am big Gonzaga believer, had them 1st in my rankings preseason, and I like Zach, just think that he has to show more in terms of strength and physicality like you said, and for me bigs have to be elite to have enough leverage to go high, he is fairly similar to Patton, i like Justin's passing more, and neither does it for me just yet, so maybe with another year he could show those traits and I'd be comfortable with him in the lotto.

This is going to sound funny but you can find many examples of me saying how wrong I was about several topics, not a difficult find.

Ok, fair enough. I just thought that you were dissing him unnecessarily. As a Zags fan, I hope that he comes back next season, but not confident now.

Not a huge John Collins fan, but I like Zach Collins. In this draft I would not take John Collins in th first round. Nothing particularly special about him that could make him stand out in the NBA and I'm not a fan of his body type.

Zach Collins is also not a lottery pick, especially since there are so many good bigs in the league now. Young centers aren't valuable unless they have upside because usually unless they can stretch the floor they take time to develop. Centers usually take more time to develop. Personally would not waste a lotto pick on a center in this draft. Would only take Justin Patton if I NEED a center by the end of the lotto. The guy I like most at center likely won't even be taken in the first round. I've been saying for a while even though he's inconsistent and has issues on defense, Thomas Bryant is going to translate in the NBA. I still think he's not being coached well and isn't learning the stuff he needs to learn. He has quick enough feet, can handle the ball a little, can shoot. Just needs to fine-tune his game. At times he has flashes and he has the wingspan/size. Might need time to develop though.

Even though Bryant looks the part with a huge upper body and great length, both Collins' have shown to be much better rebounders and shot-blockers. And they're both far better scorers than Bryant. It's not just a matter of consistency. Both Collins' are better players and still have plenty of upside left to reach. I think folks made up their minds too early on John or continue to sleep on him.

[No-Man]

I literally see 0 venue for John Collins to end up in the lotto honestly.
Zach could, but he needs to show improvement in several areas, his awareness isnt there and his effort isnt the same on one side than on the other, same with and without touches.
his archetype doesnt really help his case either.

Changed your mind yet? He did what Tim Duncan never did in his 4 year Wake Forest career - scoring at least 20 points in 6 straight ACC games. This game he had his lowest FG% - 58.3%. He also had 11 boards and 5 blocks. He continues to get to the line better than any big in the country. You don't have him high - neither does NBAdraft.net (moved up to 1st pick in 2nd round) and draftexpress.com (moved up to 25th) - but I think he should go lotto. Folks are still sleeping on him.

haven't watched lately but nope, it's not about the numbers it's about the archetype, he is a fluid athlete but by no means a strong one and his defense is just meh, caught between positions, seems like a solid 3rd big to me, and those ones just are not that interesting honestly.
I am not saying he isnt good, but we are talking about a mid-post killer that has a soft touch, an underdeveloped frame, avg athletic tools and length and is a 6'10 that doesnt shoot 3s.

I am not that high on Happ and I'd take him easily ahead of JCollins, Happ hasnt shown anything in terms of shooting but he has everything else, superb on defense, on the boards, can move around, and can pass the heck out of the ball, he will probably never be more than a 3rd big but at least has the potential if he continues improving athletically and he shows some sort of shooting ability, to be a starter down the road, with Collins I see no way.

[Ruzious]

Fair enough. I like Happ and think he's underrated. He's got great hands both offensively and defensively - which is one of the most important overlooked things for a big. And like J Collins, he's an excellent rebounder. But I'd easily take J Collins due to his tremendous scoring ability and better shot-blocking. At 19 and younger than Happ, he'll improve a lot defensively, likely expand his offensive game, and is more likely to improve his strength. I think he's actually got his weight up to Happ's and I'm pretty sure he's longer - though I'd like to see his length stats.

[doordoor123]

Ok, fair enough. I just thought that you were dissing him unnecessarily. As a Zags fan, I hope that he comes back next season, but not confident now.

Not a huge John Collins fan, but I like Zach Collins. In this draft I would not take John Collins in th first round. Nothing particularly special about him that could make him stand out in the NBA and I'm not a fan of his body type.

Zach Collins is also not a lottery pick, especially since there are so many good bigs in the league now. Young centers aren't valuable unless they have upside because usually unless they can stretch the floor they take time to develop. Centers usually take more time to develop. Personally would not waste a lotto pick on a center in this draft. Would only take Justin Patton if I NEED a center by the end of the lotto. The guy I like most at center likely won't even be taken in the first round. I've been saying for a while even though he's inconsistent and has issues on defense, Thomas Bryant is going to translate in the NBA. I still think he's not being coached well and isn't learning the stuff he needs to learn. He has quick enough feet, can handle the ball a little, can shoot. Just needs to fine-tune his game. At times he has flashes and he has the wingspan/size. Might need time to develop though.

Even though Bryant looks the part with a huge upper body and great length, both Collins' have shown to be much better rebounders and shot-blockers. And they're both far better scorers than Bryant. It's not just a matter of consistency. Both Collins' are better players and still have plenty of upside left to reach. I think folks made up their minds too early on John or continue to sleep on him.

In terms of a natural center right now I would say yes, Collins inks better, but Thomas has more upside offensively and he has the tools to be a better defender. Collins, to me, screams starter upside or long time back up. If we're trying to get the closest thing to an All-Star, I'd say Thomas is the better pick. He has a lower floor, but higher ceiling IMO.

[No-Man]

Fair enough. I like Happ and think he's underrated. He's got great hands both offensively and defensively - which is one of the most important overlooked things for a big. And like J Collins, he's an excellent rebounder. But I'd easily take J Collins due to his tremendous scoring ability and better shot-blocking. At 19 and younger than Happ, he'll improve a lot defensively, likely expand his offensive game, and is more likely to improve his strength. I think he's actually got his weight up to Happ's and I'm pretty sure he's longer - though I'd like to see his length stats.

dunno about know but Collins was a net zero length wise in 2013, same height and wingspan.
He is probably what, 6'10 in shoes with a 6'11 wingspan maybe? meh

[Ruzious]

Just wondering - Has Derrick Williams ruined it for that size of PF who aren't really cut out to be NBA stretch 4's? My feeling on him is that he got a little too heavy and lost some quickness in the NBA. Not every prospect works hard enough to reach their potential.

[No-Man]

Just wondering - Has Derrick Williams ruined it for that size of PF who aren't really cut out to be NBA stretch 4's? My feeling on him is that he got a little too heavy and lost some quickness in the NBA. Not every prospect works hard enough to reach their potential.

Derrick Williams is a 5, I hope he realizes that and goes to Europe, he might have a nice career over there alla Anthony Randolph.

He isnt giving you anything defensively either as a PF or as a C, so you better play him where he can be something close to AZ's Derrick that played Center most of the time.

He is much better than Bennett who imo is another 5 if anything.
Both need growing to do and Europe is a good niche to find yourself and develop, another former bust, although not drafted as high is one of the best Centers in Euroleague, Chris Singleton.
Ekpe Udoh and Jan Vesely are other guys, albeit much different than those guys that have thrived at the 5 in Europe and will be completely workable as back-up bigs in the NBA.

[Ruzious]

Just wondering - Has Derrick Williams ruined it for that size of PF who aren't really cut out to be NBA stretch 4's? My feeling on him is that he got a little too heavy and lost some quickness in the NBA. Not every prospect works hard enough to reach their potential.

Derrick Williams is a 5, I hope he realizes that and goes to Europe, he might have a nice career over there alla Anthony Randolph.

He isnt giving you anything defensively either as a PF or as a C, so you better play him where he can be something close to AZ's Derrick that played Center most of the time.

He is much better than Bennett who imo is another 5 if anything.
Both need growing to do and Europe is a good niche to find yourself and develop, another former bust, although not drafted as high is one of the best Centers in Euroleague, Chris Singleton.
Ekpe Udoh and Jan Vesely are other guys, albeit much different than those guys that have thrived at the 5 in Europe and will be completely workable as back-up bigs in the NBA.

In the NBA, you cannot win with a terrible defensive center. You can hide a bad defensive PF to an extent - but not a center. Maybe in Europe you can - but not in the NBA. Vesely's not strong enough and doesn't have good enough hands to play center in the NBA. Udoh's just not good enough. Singleton's not big enough to play C. He failed at both the 3 and 4 with the Wiz. Wizards picked Vesely and Singleton in the same draft - terrible picks for where they picked them.

[No-Man]

In the NBA you can't win with starting any of those guys probably, but those can play back-up Center in the league, for sure, period.
None are starters, that's not the point, that's why they left but they are workable as back-ups, Vesely is awesome as a PnR finisher as a rim-runner C in a spread system, he is much better than Jason Smith who plays minutes for Washington.
Udoh is the best defensive big in Euroleague along with Singleton and Khem Birch, they are not strong ones but they can slide their feet, they are crazy long and they are bouncy, trying Singleton at the 3 is all you need to know about a franchise and how little they know about their own players.

Vesely and Singleton were bad picks but they both are good players, that was a strange draft to figure out, deep but weak at the top, and with a ton of late bloomers, but still in a re-draft I'd take Vesely and Singleton in the 1st or close to it still, so they are far from terrible picks, they just need another shot in the NBA, in case they want it ofc.

[pantalones]

ZC had 14 points, 8 rebounds and a block in 19 minutes on 4/7 shooting in their blow out win over Santa Clara the other night.

[pantalones]

11/5 in 14 minutes on 4-6 shooting in their blowout win over LMU last night.

[Ruzious]

Not sure if Gonzaga is beatable in this era of college basketball.

[No-Man]

Not sure if Gonzaga is beatable in this era of college basketball.

They are the best team in the country hands down, I had them 1st in my preseason board and winning it all but I didnt bet anything

I have watched more Zach, been impressed with the way he can move his feet against smaller players, I doubt he declares, but if you believe in his shooting stretching to 3, I do, and him been okay moving the ball, he should def be in consideration for 1st big off the board, he and Lauri aren't that apart in my mind.

[pantalones]

8 points, 6 rebounds and 3 blocks in 18 minutes last night

[Chriscross]

Last night vs Pacific

20 minutes, 14 points, 9 rebounds, 5 blocks

[pantalones]

14/5 and 5 blocks in their win over Northwestern in 21 minutes.