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Going into this draft we thought it was going to be pretty thin at center. It still is, but there are a lot of guys on the raw side with good potential. Who will be the first center off the board? Who are the centers inthenfirst round? Anyone you're interested in at the position?

The class of big is a crapshot, and the value of back-up bigs is so low that unless you are certain somebody is a starting and a considerable talent I wouldn't touch them in the top20, or heck the 1st round, you are better off gambling on some wings that will carry much more value if they pan out, having said that;

Harry Giles if shows some of the athleticism and mobility that he had pre-injury should be easily the 1st big off the board
Lauri Markkanen is likely 2nd, I dont think he is more than a situational player/threat esp in a contender type team but there are many teams that wont contend and can use him still
Justin Patton is 3rd for me, it's close between him and Robert Williams, but he does more of the big man little things and has more of the typical C size, albeit he needs to add strength, and that makes me believe he will be used as a C, whereas with RW they will be coaches that play him at the 4 where his value is meh.
Robert Williams for me has potential to outplay this slot but he needs to be consistent defensively, dont reach for blocks, improve a ton as a screener, to be more than back-up type big, but the type of athleticism and off-ball game he brings is super intriguing.

I think that's where I'd draw a line in terms of guys I "might" take a chance on in the 1st round, the other ones are either clearly back-up bigs (Kaba, Bryant, Motley, Kornet, Yurtseven...) need a superspecific situation to start (Adebayo) or need to show more/caught up between positions (Happ, Rabb, Bradley).

There are a few pure 4s that if I had to choose a 2nd position from would be as C before I put them at SF (Lydon, Leaf, Peters) but those guys are not comparable with this group I feel like.

The intriguing guy that may break the mold and it's similar to Patton actually, just older is the latvian Pasecniks, and his curve of improvement is difficult to predict because he is a late bloomer that has improved a ton in a year, esp physically.

Any Euros that we should track? I find Alpha Kaba interesting prospect.

Isaiah.

Hartenstein.

You're welcome. The rest, as of now, are trash.

Actually is there even a true C projected to go in the 1st round?

Giles is more of a 4, and Markannen will never play the 5 except in small ball sets.

Hartenstein is also a 4, but he COULD play the 5, and if he manages to be able to do that he will be the guy worth owning from this class. If he ends up being stuck as a 4, I wouldn't want him in the top 10.

Save your draft picks allocated toward centers for next year. This is the year to get guards in the late lotto that would go top 5 in other years.

I would like to see Portland draft Williams and bring him along as the main backup to Aminu for a year or two.

If you're drafting based on need would you rather Bam Adebayo or Tyson Chandler with pick 14?

In terms of 4/5's (excluding some tweeners like Isaac/Bridges) -

Giles - obvious high potential if healthy
Markennen - strong role player potential
Hartenstein - high ceiling but feel/attitude are a concern
Patton - haven't seen heaps but looks like the best real 'C'
R.Williams - looks really solid, probably have to flash a bit more to suggest starting potential though
Rabb - If he can continue to show a bit more of his range, really like ihm. Smart, long, skilled.
Adebayo - A bit polarizing as a prospect for me, If I had to guess I'd say a strong 3rd big
Leaf - skilled, but I don't see starting potential

^In no particular order of preference, I think we'll see all those guys go in the first round, with maybe half going in the lottery.

Bryant, Oliver, Pasecniks, Yurtseven, Motley, Kaba all have a chance to sneak in to the first round as well, imo.

In other words, the high end talent in this draft is reserved for guards, but there's still a really deep crop of solid big prospects. I wouldn't be surprised to see 4-5 starters come out of this class.

How many of them are actually C's at the next level? Depends on how they develop, I think. The only ones that are definitely 5's are Patton, Bam, Bryant, Pasecniks, Yurtseven, imo, and between that group there's not a whole lot of talent.

Jonathan Jeanne is probably a 1st round pick and I haven't seen him mentioned. Patton seems like the only true C and he's a good one. I can also see him one day shooting from 3 a bit. I like him a lot. Maybe in the teens?

jrob23 wrote:Jonathan Jeanne is probably a 1st round pick and I haven't seen him mentioned. Patton seems like the only true C and he's a good one. I can also see him one day shooting from 3 a bit. I like him a lot. Maybe in the teens?

have you ever watched Jeanne play? do you know anything about the kind of year he is having?

I can't see 4-5 starters, at all btw.

Hartenstein I missed, not that I am high on him, but he should be classified as a C agreed there.

Fischella wrote:

jrob23 wrote:Jonathan Jeanne is probably a 1st round pick and I haven't seen him mentioned. Patton seems like the only true C and he's a good one. I can also see him one day shooting from 3 a bit. I like him a lot. Maybe in the teens?

have you ever watched Jeanne play? do you know anything about the kind of year he is having?

I can't see 4-5 starters, at all btw.

Hartenstein I missed, not that I am high on him, but he should be classified as a C agreed there.

FWIW, when I say starters, I should probably clarify, not top end ones. If I had to guess, I'd say Giles obviously, Markennen as a Ryan Anderson tier guy, maybe a less prolific shooter but a bit bigger and more versatile. From there I think Rabb has a chance if he bulks up as much as his frame allows and becomes a more prolific shooter, Hartenstein has the potential if he can overcome the attitude/IQ, Patton is displaying the tools to be a starter perhaps, because he fits the modern C role really well as 4th/5th starter, and Bam could perhaps start in the right situation, though I think odds are against it.

To clarify, I would probably project 2, maybe 3 starters, but I think there's potential for 4 or 5 at best.

In high level teams I got you Giles if his athleticism is back, Markkanen if everything breaks right and the team has the pieces to cover for him, Patton if he hits his 95 percentile outcome, which is imo unlikely, and Williams in a similar situation, that's about it.
Hartenstein is a better rebounder than Lauri, but his offense is going to be worse so I dont think the trade off with him is ever going to be worth it.
I think Happ if he gets an outside shot, which at this point is wishful thinking, could be a starter at the PF that moves to the 5 for half his minutes.
Same with Rabb, but he needs to shoot it from 3 at a good volume.
Bam basically needs to play with LeBron to be a starter and bust his ass off every damn second of every game, see Tristan Thompson.
Lydon, Leaf are more classic fours, they could end up as starters but it's not the same convo I feel like.

Fischella wrote:In high level teams I got you Giles if his athleticism is back, Markkanen if everything breaks right and the team has the pieces to cover for him, Patton if he hits his 95 percentile outcome, which is imo unlikely, and Williams in a similar situation, that's about it.
Hartenstein is a better rebounder than Lauri, but his offense is going to be worse so I dont think the trade off with him is ever going to be worth it.
I think Happ if he gets an outside shot, which at this point is wishful thinking, could be a starter at the PF that moves to the 5 for half his minutes.
Same with Rabb, but he needs to shoot it from 3 at a good volume.
Bam basically needs to play with LeBron to be a starter and bust his ass off every damn second of every game, see Tristan Thompson.
Lydon, Leaf are more classic fours, they could end up as starters but it's not the same convo I feel like.

Hartenstein could be the perfect small-ball 5. With the ability to stretch the floor, and grab rebounds, with the size to act like a "true" C in those small ball sets. He won't ever be defending against Dwight or Marc Gasol in the post, but he can play the 5 the same way Draymond Green does it. His vision and passing ability is also good. I think his size will make up for his lack of instincts on the defensive end (eventually). I have no issue envisioning IH in a Dray type role on a good team in 5-6 years.

Markkannen? Like I said, if you see anything but Ryan Anderson in him, let me know.

Markkanen is fairly more mobile than Ryno, is not even close, never gonna be able to defend anybody big in post-ups, Anderson does an okay job there, but could be better as a defender in space and PnR, could be passable enough where the trade off with his superb offense from the C spot makes the trade off workable, not expecting it, but could work, not a rim protector either.
Hartenstein has a higher potential on those areas, post defense, rim protection, and rebounding, but it's nowhere near the player Lauri is on offense, it's not only shooting, Lauri executes like a vet, he is not a passer yet, but he is not a blackhole and he doesnt get cute with the ball, Hartenstein is a low IQ guy that demands touches, even when they are going nowhere, tries unrealistic passes and plays all over the place on D, Draymond is a superintelligent guy, I can't see Isaiah getting there ever, he is young but his family is all about basketball, his dad was a pro, and he is still Andray Blatche-type dumb playing the game, which is a red flag for me.

I get why you like him, he hasa ton of intriguing tools, but it's the type of guy that unless he puts it together where it matters enough, is probably going to be too inconsistent to be trusted.
In a way, not comparing them, it's similar to Ellenson, he was a solid rebounder, with some pop, IH is a better athlete though, that could pass a bit, but was enamoured with shooting the ball even if he was not the level of shooter he needed to be, took awful ones, and his best ability compared to his peers as a big is ballhandling, but how useful is that other than in shortrolls situations if you are not smart enough or have the passing chops to get advantage of it?
it's a cute skill, but doesnt get you far at least in the NBA.

So im assuming most of thrse guys are projected backups at the next level

cksdayoff wrote:So im assuming most of thrse guys are projected backups at the next level

yeah the only clearcut starter if his athleticism gets back is Giles and he still got the question marks with his injuries
this class of bigs is the weakest I can remember

Fischella wrote:

cksdayoff wrote:So im assuming most of thrse guys are projected backups at the next level

yeah the only clearcut starter if his athleticism gets back is Giles and he still got the question marks with his injuries
this class of bigs is the weakest I can remember

Whoever gets Giles is getting the steal of the draft. Right now Im assuming this guy will be either late lottery or somewhere in the top 15. The guy looks really good out there and he isnt even close to being 100% right now condition was and mentally he may have Derrick Rose syndrome which is understandable. The one big negative is that if he blows out his knee one more time, he may call it quits.

Harry Giles and Robert Williams would be the guys I would say are the best Center prospects in this draft.

Fischella wrote:

jrob23 wrote:Jonathan Jeanne is probably a 1st round pick and I haven't seen him mentioned. Patton seems like the only true C and he's a good one. I can also see him one day shooting from 3 a bit. I like him a lot. Maybe in the teens?

have you ever watched Jeanne play? do you know anything about the kind of year he is having?

I can't see 4-5 starters, at all btw.

Hartenstein I missed, not that I am high on him, but he should be classified as a C agreed there.

sadly some of these prospects barely play in Europe so you can only go by reading scouting reports or watching videos and what is reported on twitter from guys that do get a chance to see him. With his size and skills he will get much more hype as the season goes. Last year I thought the same about Maker and said he'd be a lottery pick and was laughed at. I see some Bender and Maker with Jeanne except he's actually taller. Anyone taking him has to know they probably won't begin to get a return on their investment until year 3 but it's a lot of upside we're talking about. It's similar to Bender and Maker in that regard and they both went lottery. Since this is a much better draft class Jeanne isn't going to go lottery but I wouldn't be surprised if he is top 25. There are some very good and patient G.M.s that are contending and picking in the mid/high 20s every draft and one of them will bite.

Fischella wrote:In high level teams I got you Giles if his athleticism is back, Markkanen if everything breaks right and the team has the pieces to cover for him, Patton if he hits his 95 percentile outcome, which is imo unlikely, and Williams in a similar situation, that's about it.
Hartenstein is a better rebounder than Lauri, but his offense is going to be worse so I dont think the trade off with him is ever going to be worth it.
I think Happ if he gets an outside shot, which at this point is wishful thinking, could be a starter at the PF that moves to the 5 for half his minutes.
Same with Rabb, but he needs to shoot it from 3 at a good volume.
Bam basically needs to play with LeBron to be a starter and bust his ass off every damn second of every game, see Tristan Thompson.
Lydon, Leaf are more classic fours, they could end up as starters but it's not the same convo I feel like.

everyone is dead wrong about Bam. Just because they don't showcase him doesn't mean he can't do certain things. I predict that once he gets into workouts teams will see that he has post moves, can put the ball on the floor and drive from the 3 pt line and has potential to develop a 3. He has as much upside as anyone in the draft.

Bam, Leaf, Markkanen, Patton, Rabb, and Giles are locks to be eventual starters with another half dozen potentially starting down the road. They won't all be stars mind you. People forget how many scrub big men are starting in the NBA. It's not a high bar to set...expecting them to start someday

yitur wrote:Harry Giles and Robert Williams would be the guys I would say are the best Center prospects in this draft.

Have you watched Giles play? He looks like a shell of himself and looks like his knees are completely shot.