Luka Doncic

[Bob8]

I think Doncic can be similar to Kidd in boxscores, a triple double thread, but more athletic than Kidd? you guys are tripping, Kidd was very athletic, fast and strong, lockdown defender.

Doncic averaging close to 8 assists per 36 minutes in EL, which is very strong, especially considering he shares some time with Llull. SO I have no doubt he can grow into an elite facilitator. His progress even from beginning of the season to now is noticeable and undeniable, he became one of my favorite Euroleague players. That said, I started symphatise with reanimator in this thread, I think the hype from Doncic fanboys is a little out of control.

You sympathize with people( reanimator, jrob23) who haven't seen any game in which Doncic have played and haven't seen any Euroleague games. Do you understand that good part of fanboying is directly provoked by this people? This thread is really unique. Only thread where 2 of top5 posters haven't seen a prospect, about whom they're talking about, play. And 90% of their posts are negative. What would happen in Fultz or Ball thread if some euro posters will storm in, more or less admitted that they don't know much about Fultz and said he's one league below Ntilikina and the same prospect that Kurucs? Reaction would be tremendous. But we don't, because we don't know enough to write about Fultz or Ball. I understand there are different opinions about how big prospect Doncic is. I know there there is hype, and I know how difficult is to become good Nba player. But I really can't understand how someone can have strong opinion about something he have seen only on highlights and more or less don't know anything about? And please explain me why Draftexpress has Doncic in second place? I guess they shouldn't be influenced by the hype.

Well, I dont think their opinion would change much if they watched the games. I think highlights are completely serviceable. Sure, watching full games gives you a far bigger picture, but I watch full games all the time, and I kinda agree with reanimator, I think Doncic fanboys are too hyped up about the guy.

I always been a pessimist, so maybe its just me. But I always try to keep expectations at modest level at best. I think Doncic will struggle in the NBA for sure, and two years of hyping him as the best Euro ever is not helping anyone.

Nobody is saying he's the best Euro ever. He's the best 17 years old player that ever play in Euroleague. We don't know what will happen with him in 5 years time. But we don't know that for any prospect. Nobody knows, and because of that we have such draft busts like Bennett was. But in my eyes Doncic has one big advantage in comparison to other prospects. He's the only one who has already translated. There's a very big step from U18 player to Euroleague player and he master that in only one year with perfection. Normally players in Europe need 4-5 years to do that and not many ever play on level, he's playing at this moment. Now he has at least 2 years to become better Euroleague player, one of the best, and then to try in Nba. He will come in Nba as a professional, playing 3-4 years in second best league in the world, knowing how to handle pressure and with clear belief in himself and he will give it a try in Nba. Maybe he will succeed, maybe not, he can always return to Europe and be a star there.

[Bob8]

You sympathize with people( reanimator, jrob23) who haven't seen any game in which Doncic have played and haven't seen any Euroleague games. Do you understand that good part of fanboying is directly provoked by this people? This thread is really unique. Only thread where 2 of top5 posters haven't seen a prospect, about whom they're talking about, play. And 90% of their posts are negative. What would happen in Fultz or Ball thread if some euro posters will storm in, more or less admitted that they don't know much about Fultz and said he's one league below Ntilikina and the same prospect that Kurucs? Reaction would be tremendous. But we don't, because we don't know enough to write about Fultz or Ball. I understand there are different opinions about how big prospect Doncic is. I know there there is hype, and I know how difficult is to become good Nba player.

People can and do criticize Ball and Fultz and no one throws a giant fit....thats the difference. This is a draft forum meant for analysis but it seems like you would rather just track Doncic game by game production with little to no analysis in terms of the NBA draft? I don't even think I've had a crazy take in this thread: said he was a lottery pick, compared him to high level starters and all stars, and complimented his skillset plenty....I critique his weaknesses and think HOF comps are ludicrous which seems to be the point of contention? Not sure why you think I haven't watched extensive film, either?

I asked you before and you didn't answer. Let's try it again. Did you watch a single game Doncic has played, highlights doesn't count, and how many Euroleague games did you watch?

I don't believe anybody is saying Fultz will finish in mid teens in the draft.

And please can somebody explain to me why Draftexpress has Doncic in second place?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/
That's more or less the same we're saying.

[Mirotic12]

I get what you are saying, but there is one fundamental difference in your examples. Nikola Jokic alreay playing like a star IN the NBA. There is zero doubt anymore, he can play. Doncic still plays in the Euroleague, and no matter how good Euroleague is, its still not the NBA. Being Euroleague star doesn't guarantee you NBA success, look at Nemanja Bjelica or Nikola Mirotic.

Few years ago, before they all hit NBA, we would have said, oh, Nikola Mirotic is much better than Rudy Gobert, Mirotic is Real Madrid star, yet Gobert has a smaller role on average French club. Look how that turned out. Basketball skills doesn't translate linearly, its way more complicated than that.

Use better examples for "EuroLeague star". Neither Mirotic, nor Bjelica comes close to being a EuroLeague star.

I said here over and over how ridiculously overrated Mirotic was in the USA and how absurd all the USA media hype about him was before he came to the NBA. I said it in main forums and in the Bulls forum, and people said I was trolling, and he would be a 20/10 player, or even the next Dirk.

I said what was actually fact - that he is the by far and away, by leaps and bounds, the softest big man to ever step on a EuroLeague court (until current Bargnani), and that his softness was both physical and mental. That was fact, and I said he was more like a 8/5 to 10/8 type of player, and a best case scenario was a softer Ryan Anderson. People called me a troll for saying that.

He was never any star in EuroLeague. He was a choker, he never played any defense, he was usually not trying to rebound, as he liked to stand all the time at the 3 point line, and he played so soft all the time. He also almost always didn't show up in any important games or moments.

I think Bjelica was even less of a "EuroLeague star" than Mirotic. He got a MVP award off of blatantly enormous vote stuffing for the award online by the millions upon millions of Fenerbahce fans. Everyone knew he wasn't an actual MVP. With that said, he honestly had just that one season where he was even any good.

To me he's a better player overall than Mirotic, although Mirotic is definitely more talented. But Bjelica isn't as soft as Mirotic. But Bjleica was never any star in EuroLeague. His defense was always very suspect, he never had a real position, his offense was at best being a 3rd option in any team, and the only thing he was really actually good at was rebounding. Even in rebounding it wasn't like he was some great rebounder or something.

If EuroLeague MVP was voted like NBA MVP, he sure the hell would have never sniffed that award. Neither of them were EuroLeague stars.

If you want to talk about what some "EuroLeague stars" did in NBA, then talk about,

Drazen Petrovic
Dino Radja
Vlade Divac
Arvydas Sabonis
Juan Carlos Navarro
Vassilis Spanoulis
Toni Kukoc
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Sasha Danilovic
Sasha Djordjevic
Manu Ginobili
Andrei Kirilenko

Talk about guys like that....players that ACTUALLY were stars in EuroLeague, and how they did in NBA. It's a complete joke to call guys like Mirotic and Bjelica EuroLeague stars. Sorry, but it just is.

You could even go with some guys that were borderline EuroLeague stars, like...

Antoine Rigadeau
Rudy Fernandez
Sergio Rodriguez
Stojko Vrankovic
Luis Scola
Nando De Colo (he will probably be a real star soon enough)

or something at least, not players like Mirotic and Bjelica that clearly were nowhere near that kind of level players.

And for some of the people here saying Doncic is a EuroLeague star - no, he isn't one either. At least not yet.

So if we are going to compare Doncic to "EuroLeague stars" and claim he could do this or that in the NBA, based on what they did, then,

1. We need to actually use examples of real ACTUAL stars from EuroLeague that also played in NBA. Not just throw out random names of any player that was contributing in both leagues.

2. We need to also understand that Doncic is projected to be a star in EuroLeague. He is not actually one now, or at least hasn't achieved that yet at this point this season. People calling him already a star in EuroLeague, and MVP, etc., simply are not being objective.

So let's try to at least make such comparisons accurate and objective.

[UcanUwill]

Your not Euroleague star stick is getting old. You just have a very high standard for the star. Nemanja Bjelica was Euroleague MVP, but hes not a star? Mirotic was Euroleague second team. He was easily a star in my book, just unstoppable shooter.
There is a difference between a star and a legend. You are listing legends.

[Mirotic12]

Your not Euroleague star stick is getting old. You just have a very high standard for the star. Nemanja Bjelica was Euroleague MVP, but hes not a star? Mirotic was Euroleague second team. He was easily a star in my book, just unstoppable shooter.
There is a difference between a star and a legend. You are listing legends.

In no way, shape, or form could either of them be remotely close to a EuroLeague star. I am just going to assume you never saw either of them play a EuroLeague game if you think they were stars.

All kinds of players are in all EuroLeague team - and some are not even good players, and certainly very few are anything resembling a star. Bjelica's MVP was all because he won a huge landslide of online fan voting, from Fener fans stuffing millions of votes.

Everyone knows that was a ridiculous MVP award and completely undeserved. Besides, EuroLeague MVP is not at all, in no way analogous to MVP awards in North American sports.

It's voted on by fans online, that can vote once a day from each IP address, with the fan vote getting 5 votes total in the count, at a 25% rate, then on media voting, which get 1 vote each, at a 75% rate, and then the media is instructed to count team success and team finish in the season first and foremost, and individual play second.

Like I said, here is a real list of EuroLeague stars that also played in NBA:

Drazen Petrovic
Dino Radja
Vlade Divac
Arvydas Sabonis
Juan Carlos Navarro
Vassilis Spanoulis
Toni Kukoc
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Sasha Danilovic
Sasha Djordjevic
Manu Ginobili
Andrei Kirilenko

you could also add Nando De Colo probably, if he keeps doing what he's been doing recently.

You have plenty of players there to compare Doncic to. Please do so. Because it's totally wrong to be comparing him to a so-called star from EuroLeague, that was never at any time actually a star. You have real stars there, and some that did well in NBA, and some that didn't. No reason to go into guys like Mirotic and Bjelica that are no way at all relevant to such a discussion with what Doncic could be or might be.

[blazeyo]

I get what you are saying, but there is one fundamental difference in your examples. Nikola Jokic alreay playing like a star IN the NBA. There is zero doubt anymore, he can play. Doncic still plays in the Euroleague, and no matter how good Euroleague is, its still not the NBA. Being Euroleague star doesn't guarantee you NBA success, look at Nemanja Bjelica or Nikola Mirotic.

Few years ago, before they all hit NBA, we would have said, oh, Nikola Mirotic is much better than Rudy Gobert, Mirotic is Real Madrid star, yet Gobert has a smaller role on average French club. Look how that turned out. Basketball skills doesn't translate linearly, its way more complicated than that.

Use better examples for "EuroLeague star". Neither Mirotic, nor Bjelica comes close to being a EuroLeague star.

I said here over and over how ridiculously overrated Mirotic was in the USA and how absurd all the USA media hype about him was before he came to the NBA. I said it in main forums and in the Bulls forum, and people said I was trolling, and he would be a 20/10 player, or even the next Dirk.

I said what was actually fact - that he is the by far and away, by leaps and bounds, the softest big man to ever step on a EuroLeague court (until current Bargnani), and that his softness was both physical and mental. That was fact, and I said he was more like a 8/5 to 10/8 type of player, and a best case scenario was a softer Ryan Anderson. People called me a troll for saying that.

He was never any star in EuroLeague. He was a choker, he never played any defense, he was usually not trying to rebound, as he liked to stand all the time at the 3 point line, and he played so soft all the time. He also almost always didn't show up in any important games or moments.

I think Bjelica was even less of a "EuroLeague star" than Mirotic. He got a MVP award off of blatantly enormous vote stuffing for the award online by the millions upon millions of Fenerbahce fans. Everyone knew he wasn't an actual MVP. With that said, he honestly had just that one season where he was even any good.

To me he's a better player overall than Mirotic, although Mirotic is definitely more talented. But Bjelica isn't as soft as Mirotic. But Bjleica was never any star in EuroLeague. His defense was always very suspect, he never had a real position, his offense was at best being a 3rd option in any team, and the only thing he was really actually good at was rebounding. Even in rebounding it wasn't like he was some great rebounder or something.

If EuroLeague MVP was voted like NBA MVP, he sure the hell would have never sniffed that award. Neither of them were EuroLeague stars.

If you want to talk about what some "EuroLeague stars" did in NBA, then talk about,

Drazen Petrovic
Dino Radja
Vlade Divac
Arvydas Sabonis
Juan Carlos Navarro
Vassilis Spanoulis
Toni Kukoc
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Sasha Danilovic
Sasha Djordjevic
Manu Ginobili

Talk about guys like that....players that ACTUALLY were stars in EuroLeague, and how they did in NBA. It's a complete joke to call guys like Mirotic and Bjelica EuroLeague stars. Sorry, but it just is.

You could even go with some guys that were borderline EuroLeague stars, like...

Antoine Rigadeau
Sergio Rodriguez
Stojko Vrankovic
Luis Scola
Nando De Colo (he will probably be a real star soon enough)

or something at least, not players like Mirotic and Bjelica that clearly were nowhere near that kind of level players.

And for some of the people here saying Doncic is a EuroLeague star - no, he isn't one either. At least not yet.

So if we are going to compare Doncic to "EuroLeague stars" and claim he could do this or that in the NBA, based on what they did, then,

1. We need to actually use examples of real ACTUAL stars from EuroLeague that also played in NBA. Not just throw out random names of any player that was contributing in both leagues.

2. We need to also understand that Doncic is projected to be a star in EuroLeague. He is not actually one now, or at least hasn't achieved that yet at this point this season. People calling him already a star in EuroLeague, and MVP, etc., simply are not being objective.

So let's try to at least make such comparisons accurate and objective.

Why do you hate yourself that much?

[Sports Geek]

Sure playmaking is his strength, but there are tiers. Lets contextualize Jason Kidd as a creator.

career assist rate percentage:

Kidd: 38.5
CP3: 47.3
Lebron: 34.9
Batum: 17.7
Hayward: 18.7
Iguodala: 20

Those are interesting numbers. Anyway, I think you can't compare those pure PG numbers (Kidd and CP3). They get much more touches than Doncic. He doesn't play the PG all the time. And it is easier to make assist in the NBA. A pass then score off the dribble is not counted as an assist in Europe. That's why only 4 players in history were able to score a triple double in the Euroleague and the last one was 10 years ago.

[Sports Geek]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Kidd's speed was decent, just that. And I don't remember even a dunk from him (I am sure he did, all players can). He was strong though, but Doncic will likely be stronger. Defense? He can defend from PG to PFs at Euroleague level. Could Kidd do that? And of course, as I already mentioned (not just me, all the posters that actually watched Doncic play), he has an awesome ability to find the better option for his team.

Anyway, this conversation doesn't make any sense. I don't enter to Fultz thread because I don't have the tools to fairly judge him. You keep discussing about something you haven't even watched in this thread. Feel free to do it, of course, but for me the discussion between you and me is not anything I am enjoying. UcanUwill (sorry for metioning you again, but you are a good example) and me have different opinions about Doncic's ceiling. But he knows what he is talking about. Why? Because he is following Doncic's career.

So let me get this straight, Doncic will be a plus defender guarding the 1-4 and is an explosive leaper?

I have my concerns about him being a plus defender in general. Haven't seen enough quality game tape to really make a judgement. From the little I've seen I think he'll be a competent defender 2-3 and in time the 4.

Decently explosive when he gets to his launching pad and gets his footwork correct. Elite athlete he is not and in tight spaces his final step isn't great despite his first step being pretty good.

Thing is, he does some things that make me wonder if he's more crafty off the dribble/has more hangtime than we all think, which would help his scoring, and if so how come we haven't seen enough of that? Possibly due to role on the team, or mentality? Earliest four videos here are the best I have to go on when it comes to seeing him in a moderately large role (as Llull was out during their preseason). Can see his finishing weaknesses either due to footwork or explosiveness but also some good change of pace to get into the paint past the initial defender (usually ends in a skip pass as defense collapses).

In this move he uses a good change of pace to explode past the defender, get in the air, absorb the contact and finish with a reverse layup. This one is probably the most promising piece of scoring I've ever seen from him.

Here in transition he uses a hesitation to crossover but drives into traffic so kicks it out to a shooter.

The above two examples are both in transition though and I think a majority of his half-court creation will result in passes rather than individual score chances (combo of instinct + athletic/scoring limitations). But as per usual, need a lot more footage to really make any definitive conclusions.

Thanks for the videos. I didn't watch those preseason games. Wow, he has improved a lot from the beginning of the season. I think he is much more explosive and stronger now.

[JPF]

@Mirotic12: Bjelica and Mirotić were euroleague stars. We could debate if euroleague actualy has stars or a sole definition of "star", however if euroleague has "stars", both were in that club.

No need to belittle them and their effect in europe, to make the euroleague artificialy appear better than it is.
They each had their own flaws, those translated exponentialy to NBA and they didn't make it due to it, especially Bjelica.

The fact is that even if some of those skills translate nicely, there hasn't really been a euro star that would come out of euroleague (and not some minor leagues) that would've get to NBA after dominating the euroleague and immediately start shineing, that's why US posters are right to be sceptical. Manu comes to mind, but that was long back, Peković, Bogdanović... probably missed someone, however Marc, Dirk, Parker, Antetokoumpo, Jokić, Porzingis, Fournier, Schoder, Batum all bypassed euroleague completely, while Pau or Dragič played there and left basicaly no mark to it, simmilary as Rubio, Hežonja, Valančiunas, basicaly we're talking about vast majority of succesfull euro NBA players.
Judging how the transition to NBA from euroleague should go, isn't something completely obvious accordingly.

Most of the players in NBA that came out of euroleague left a decent, but nothing special mark if we are exact. Euroleague isn't exactly developmentaly friendly league and most of these youngsters leave to NBA early, before they even sign a contract in euroleague as from their point of view getting contract there is often a mistake due to the lack of playing time and in-game responsibilities they receive.

Those "stars" you've mentioned, funny enough, are all from the era long ago...

[Sports Geek]

- Rudy Fernandez had a good rookie year, then that injury happened and he was never the same again.

In fact, Rudy Fernandez had an all time record for 3s converted in a rookie season. Then he was beat by that Steph Curry guy.

[Sports Geek]

Ayzzz I am done with the forum. It is already stressing me. That back and forth... Groundhog day. I am not enjoying, I hope you do. Bye guys.

[Bob8]

@Mirotic12: Bjelica and Mirotić were euroleague stars. We could debate if euroleague actualy has stars or a sole definition of "star", however if euroleague has "stars", both were in that club.

No need to belittle them and their effect in europe, to make the euroleague artificialy appear better than it is.
They each had their own flaws, those translated exponentialy to NBA and they didn't make it due to it, especially Bjelica.

The fact is that even if some of those skills translate nicely, there hasn't really been a euro star that would come out of euroleague (and not some minor leagues) that would've get to NBA after dominating the euroleague and immediately start shineing, that's why US posters are right to be sceptical. Manu comes to mind, but that was long back, Peković, Bogdanović... probably missed someone, however Marc, Dirk, Parker, Antetokoumpo, Jokić, Porzingis, Fournier, Schoder, Batum all bypassed euroleague completely, while Pau or Dragič played there and left basicaly no mark to it, simmilary as Rubio, Hežonja, Valančiunas, basicaly we're talking about vast majority of succesfull euro NBA players.
Judging how the transition to NBA from euroleague should go, isn't something completely obvious accordingly.

Most of the players in NBA that came out of euroleague left a decent, but nothing special mark if we are exact. Euroleague isn't exactly developmentaly friendly league and most of these youngsters leave to NBA early, before they even sign a contract in euroleague as from their point of view getting contract there is often a mistake due to the lack of playing time and in-game responsibilities they receive.

Those "stars" you've mentioned, funny enough, are all from the era long ago...

Isn't exactly this the main advantage Doncic has? Having opportunity to play in a good league in a good club, with important role, for some years before he goes to Nba and still be very young? Let's just in case of this conversation predict, he will have another big improvement in next 2 years and will go in Nba as Euroleague superstar. Won't that mean somehow easier way in Nba than many others before him had?

[XTraderXL]

@Mirotic12: Bjelica and Mirotić were euroleague stars. We could debate if euroleague actualy has stars or a sole definition of "star", however if euroleague has "stars", both were in that club.

No need to belittle them and their effect in europe, to make the euroleague artificialy appear better than it is.
They each had their own flaws, those translated exponentialy to NBA and they didn't make it due to it, especially Bjelica.

The fact is that even if some of those skills translate nicely, there hasn't really been a euro star that would come out of euroleague (and not some minor leagues) that would've get to NBA after dominating the euroleague and immediately start shineing, that's why US posters are right to be sceptical. Manu comes to mind, but that was long back, Peković, Bogdanović... probably missed someone, however Marc, Dirk, Parker, Antetokoumpo, Jokić, Porzingis, Fournier, Schoder, Batum all bypassed euroleague completely, while Pau or Dragič played there and left basicaly no mark to it, simmilary as Rubio, Hežonja, Valančiunas, basicaly we're talking about vast majority of succesfull euro NBA players.
Judging how the transition to NBA from euroleague should go, isn't something completely obvious accordingly.

Most of the players in NBA that came out of euroleague left a decent, but nothing special mark if we are exact. Euroleague isn't exactly developmentaly friendly league and most of these youngsters leave to NBA early, before they even sign a contract in euroleague as from their point of view getting contract there is often a mistake due to the lack of playing time and in-game responsibilities they receive.

Those "stars" you've mentioned, funny enough, are all from the era long ago...

You are right about Dirk, Jokic, Parker, Marc.... The thing is that those guys were not at Doncic level at the same age so they couldnt play in the EL, at least not like Luka is playing. When Luka goes to the NBA, he will be much more experienced and I think better than those all those guys at the same age. As I said before, I would be worried about Luka if he would be just slowly improving throughout the season but as we all can see he looks better each month and the stats prove what we see on the court. His progress is better and faster than anyone could expect and there are no signs of slowing down. Now, I am not saying he will be better than Dirk or Gasol brothers when its all said and done but at this moment he has all the tools to be a great NBA player and is further along than all above mentioned guys in his development skill wise.

[JPF]

@Bob8; That should be the case, I guess. Very few european players have had as big of an oppurtunity as he has at the moment. The coach trusts in him, adopted the way Real plays because of him, he is getting minutes and more importantly big role within those. That's definately not something to be taken for granted for big majority of talented players that prefer going elsewhere because they know it's that unlikely to receive an oppurtunity such as this at euroleague level.

He will hit a wall sooner or later. All players do. I don't think it's realistic to expect he'd progress at the same pace he has been in the last year or two.

I think I mentioned it before, staying or leaving the draft is for his manager to decide, however Dončič is surrounded with ex-NBA players, either in his team or around his father and I certanly think he won't be leaving to NBA prematurely, untill there would be a big concensus that he is ready.
Most of the kids on pro basketball level are so competitive (they have to be if they want to get that far) that the doubt weather they are jumping into NBA too early or not is simply not in their DNA and that sometimes contributes to a poor judgement on that part.
Some people might be afraid he might leave too late, however if he keeps playing as much and at this level, playing 30 minutes for Real is imo better than playing 10 minutes per game in NBA, as far as game development goes.
The pre-season and off-season training regime, methods, coaches and thei expertise in the states are waaaay above anything available in europe though, but he already uses those afaik.

[Bob8]

@XTtraderXL Yes, the pace of his improvement is incredible. If we leave stats besides, just look what coach Laso is doing. Few months ago Doncic was only backup for Llull, yesterday Llull and Doncic played almost non stop, chasing Morabanc. And Doncic didn't have exactly great shooting night, but Laso trusted him 100% in important and very difficult game for Real Madrid. The respect Doncic gets from his coach tells me everything. Don't forget, only 17 years old kid.

[JPF]

You are right about Dirk, Jokic, Parker, Marc.... The thing is that those guys were not at Doncic level at the same age so they couldnt play in the EL, at least not like Luka is playing. When Luka goes to the NBA, he will be much more experienced and I think better than those all those guys at the same age. As I said before, I would be worried about Luka if he would be just slowly improving throughout the season but as we all can see he looks better each month and the stats prove what we see on the court. His progress is better and faster than anyone could expect and there are no signs of slowing down. Now, I am not saying he will be better than Dirk or Gasol brothers when its all said and done but at this moment he has all the tools to be a great NBA player and is further along than all above mentioned guys in his development skill wise.

One thing I really believe is the case here though, is that apart from skill level, Luka is very lucky with his coach, Pablo Laso, basicaly he has an ideal circumstances some of the guys you mentioned above probably wouldn't get. At least it shouldn't be taken for granted. Compared to big man european basketball has been producing, putting a SF as Dončič on PG basicaly enabled Luka not to get pushed around as easily as other 17 years old would have and is imo 1 of the 2 biggest obstacles for more talented players to be given a chance at this level. Once again a very situational benefit of playing out of the final position yet still being good at it, most of those guys above wouldn't fit in since they're big man bound to play C or PF, where body strenght inevitably gets exposed. And tall guys are also oftenly late boomers, such as Pau Gasol for example, age comparison is oftenly unfair to those.

In my opinion, apart from luck playing a part here, there are euro players in history that would perform like that at such young age if given a chance and if they fit in. Dirk would imo fit that group easily since he has everything you want for euro basketball. Parker due to obvious game style differences, wouldn't... neither did Brandon Jennings back in 2008 with Roma.

[Bob8]

@JPF

He will hit the wall sooner or later. But normally the first wall young players hit when they switch to adults competition. Very big difference. He didn't hit anything. The second wall is when you try to compete with the best players in Europe. Again he didn't hit any wall. Now he has some years to prepare for Nba. But I have to admit, I noticed first worrying signs yesterday. He looked uncharacteristic nervous, like he felt the burden of all this Nba scouts who came to watch him. Maybe he's just going to fast at the moment.

[reanimator]

You sympathize with people( reanimator, jrob23) who haven't seen any game in which Doncic have played and haven't seen any Euroleague games. Do you understand that good part of fanboying is directly provoked by this people? This thread is really unique. Only thread where 2 of top5 posters haven't seen a prospect, about whom they're talking about, play. And 90% of their posts are negative. What would happen in Fultz or Ball thread if some euro posters will storm in, more or less admitted that they don't know much about Fultz and said he's one league below Ntilikina and the same prospect that Kurucs? Reaction would be tremendous. But we don't, because we don't know enough to write about Fultz or Ball. I understand there are different opinions about how big prospect Doncic is. I know there there is hype, and I know how difficult is to become good Nba player.

People can and do criticize Ball and Fultz and no one throws a giant fit....thats the difference. This is a draft forum meant for analysis but it seems like you would rather just track Doncic game by game production with little to no analysis in terms of the NBA draft? I don't even think I've had a crazy take in this thread: said he was a lottery pick, compared him to high level starters and all stars, and complimented his skillset plenty....I critique his weaknesses and think HOF comps are ludicrous which seems to be the point of contention? Not sure why you think I haven't watched extensive film, either?

I asked you before and you didn't answer. Let's try it again. Did you watch a single game Doncic has played, highlights doesn't count, and how many Euroleague games did you watch?

I don't believe anybody is saying Fultz will finish in mid teens in the draft.

And please can somebody explain to me why Draftexpress has Doncic in second place?
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/
That's more or less the same we're saying.

Doncic is obviously an early lottery talent in 2018 so he being mocked 2nd isn't absurd. I would not put him there but it isn't crazy. That said, DX is known to inflate Euro draft stock and had guts like Yutseven and Sviat as lottery picks at one time or another.

[XTraderXL]

You are right about Dirk, Jokic, Parker, Marc.... The thing is that those guys were not at Doncic level at the same age so they couldnt play in the EL, at least not like Luka is playing. When Luka goes to the NBA, he will be much more experienced and I think better than those all those guys at the same age. As I said before, I would be worried about Luka if he would be just slowly improving throughout the season but as we all can see he looks better each month and the stats prove what we see on the court. His progress is better and faster than anyone could expect and there are no signs of slowing down. Now, I am not saying he will be better than Dirk or Gasol brothers when its all said and done but at this moment he has all the tools to be a great NBA player and is further along than all above mentioned guys in his development skill wise.

One thing I really believe is the case here though, is that apart from skill level, Luka is very lucky with his coach, Pablo Laso, basicaly he has an ideal circumstances some of the guys you mentioned above probably wouldn't get. At least it shouldn't be taken for granted. Compared to big man european basketball has been producing, putting a SF as Dončič on PG basicaly enabled Luka not to get pushed around as easily as other 17 years old would have and is imo 1 of the 2 biggest obstacles for more talented players to be given a chance at this level. Once again a very situational benefit of playing out of the final position yet still being good at it, most of those guys above wouldn't fit in since they're big man bound to play C or PF, where body strenght inevitably gets exposed. And tall guys are also oftenly late boomers, such as Pau Gasol for example, age comparison is oftenly unfair to those.

In my opinion, apart from luck playing a part here, there are euro players in history that would perform like that at such young age if given a chance and if they fit in. Dirk would imo fit that group easily since he has everything you want for euro basketball. Parker due to obvious game style differences, wouldn't... neither did Brandon Jennings back in 2008 with Roma.

I agree. Laso is a perfect coach for Luka and Real is a great situation for him. Still, he would be getting serious minutes on any other team in Euroleague, maybe not as many as he is now but he would be getting them. He is too productive not to have him on the court, he contributes in basically everything and is a very solid defender. I am reading everywhere that he didnt have a good game yesterday but he still had a VAL of 23 and was 3 assists away from triple-double. Now just imagine what we would be saying about any other young player if he had a game like he had yesterday..

[saphan]

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/7m9mcweyxl9mve4i/awards-watch-euroleague-mvp
Euroleague named 15 players that are candidates for this years MVP award, and Luka is one of them.

Luka Doncic, Real Madrid

On a Real Madrid team with so much balance and so many weapons, teenage sensation Luka Doncic has become perhaps the most dangerous weapons of them all. It is no surprise that at the age of 17 he has set career-highs in all statistical categories this season, but it is versatility, flirtations with triple-doubles, display of poise in clutch moments and cool and fearlessness when sinking game-deciding shots that are staggering. Doncic, who has collected two weekly MVP honors this season, is averaging 8.7 points, 4.2 rebounds and 4 assists per game and ranks third in per-minute performance index rating (29.0 prorated over 40 minutes) in the EuroLeague this season, showing over and over again that no matter his age, Doncic’s time has already come.