Luka Doncic

[SportsGuy8]

Jiri Welsch was 21-22 when he broke out, though, basically 4 years older. And he struggled heavily the year before.

And while they do appear and are similar in many ways, personally I think Doncic is already better than him at everything (and in some areas substantially ahead), except for maybe scoring, but even there, Jiri wasn't that much better, he just had a much bigger responsibility to score on that Olimpija team in 2001-02, skewing people's perception.

As a prospect, Jiri was basically a poor man's Doncic. Same as Jaric or Satoransky. I don't like using them as comparison and/or indicator on how Doncic's going to do in the NBA, mostly because they're simply not on the same level.

Doncic also has something they don't, the always hard to explain "it-factor". Simply one of those extremely rare players that see the game differently, it's like the game slows down for them ... It's easy to see it in his creative plays and passing, for example, but it's also present in the little things he does. It's also part of the reason (along with strength) why his rebounding rate is so unorthodoxly high. He simply has a knack for putting himself in most favorable spots.

[JPF]

True that. A lot of Dončič's rebounding comes from expectation, to the extent he sometimes neglects properly boxing out his man. I don't like that to be honest.

jiri Welsch was heavily pushed forward in his last euroleague season, since his team was desperate to make a big sale. It didn't work out up to expectations. He did get the luxury of 2-3 guys working there for him with screens, seeking a pass to him etc. He got more balls coming through him than realisticaly deserved. Beno Udrih was the next in line to receive such treatment, but the team let him go due to financial issues. The role Welsch had in europe and the one Dončič has right now, are barely comparable.

There is a legit concern on how Dončič would look without all those (for european standards) great teamates, Llull, Rudy, Carrol, Thompkins, Ayon, Randolph, Nocioni, Maciulis, Reyes and it probably would hurt him a bit. However the game design Welsch was in was completely different. He was mostly set screens off ball to shoot or slash, Dončič in Real is used on the facilitating end, seeking those guys off ball as Carrol, Llull or the screeners down low (with P&R if the 1st option doesn't work out). Dončič shooting coming out of the screen receiving the ball is situational, rarely within the intended set play as he has teamates that are way better at it atm, just as he is the no.1 facilitator on the high 3p line within his team. A big difference as far as their roles in the team goes.

[Ruzious]

We're not little kids here. There's a bunch of posters with maybe 100 posts telling other people how to post. Stop doing that. No more calling anyone a little girl or anything like that. Just treat people with respect. Sometimes it's hard, but do it anyway. I hate giving warnings and bannings, so please don't make me do it. Thanks.

As this is directed at me, I feel I have to respond. I didnt call anyone a little girl. You should read my post again if you miss read it or didnt understand it. I said "like a little girl" which is very different from what you are claiming I said. I wanted to use a different word but that would get me banned. This board is overly sensitive if you get warned for something like this. Come on man

You jumped to the wrong conclusion - my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

[Mirotic12]

Do you really think that anybody would rember Bodiroga, Spanoulis, Diamantidis..as legends in Europe, if they weren't the best players of the clubs with multiple titles and many years the best or near the best players in Europe?

Dragic sadly for him never won anything or be at least near to win anything, neither was near to the best when playing in Europe and never in his life in a good club. I wonder why that happened? He never did anything meaningful with his national team too. The same goes for Nba. Some playoffs qualification and 2 statistically very good seasons are not enough to be compared with legends. He's at this moment one of the best Pg's from Europe. But Bodiroga, Diamantidis, Spanoulis...were the best for a decade. I can understand that some people think there's no basketball outside Nba, but there's.

Yep, pretty much. People saying Dragic is better than those kinds of players clearly only really follow the NBA. I've never heard a single basketball fan that follows NBA, national teams, and EuroLeague ever say Dragic is even as good as those players, much less better.

since you were all saying my list of comparable european young talents is nonsense. read this quote from one of the best talent evaluators and draft experts and a 9 year treviso basketball camp coach: Fran Fraschilla: (translated form german)

reporter: who does doncic compare to in your opinion?

fran franschilla:
thats a good question. i cant think of a really good comparision. a collegue of mine said recently, doncic reminds him of jirji welsch, wich doesnt neccesarely isnt a good sign for lukas nba perspective (franschilla laughing). but dont forget, jirji welsch was an revolutionary talent, and that shouldnt be taken as an insult on doncic. i think he can be great if his physique develops accordingly. he has a feel for the game that you cant teach.

since i am an nobody, look what one of the premier draft experts said of one of my comparisions, wich most of you completely disregarden as an comparision to doncic.

how i came to welsh? well i seen him play live at 20 years old several times and i dint just look at his stats like most of you did when i mentioned his name, so i am not the one who thinks better of me. you took the high road on me, totaly disregarding welsh as an comparision, and in high draft expert circles it seems to be relevant. how is it possible? tell me

I honestly stopped reading after the bold part...nothing Fraschilla says could be taken seriously after he said that.

Jiri Welsch was 21-22 when he broke out, though, basically 4 years older. And he struggled heavily the year before.

And while they do appear and are similar in many ways, personally I think Doncic is already better than him at everything (and in some areas substantially ahead), except for maybe scoring, but even there, Jiri wasn't that much better, he just had a much bigger responsibility to score on that Olimpija team in 2001-02, skewing people's perception.

As a prospect, Jiri was basically a poor man's Doncic. Same as Jaric or Satoransky. I don't like using them as comparison and/or indicator on how Doncic's going to do in the NBA, mostly because they're simply not on the same level.

Doncic also has something they don't, the always hard to explain "it-factor". Simply one of those extremely rare players that see the game differently, it's like the game slows down for them ... It's easy to see it in his creative plays and passing, for example, but it's also present in the little things he does. It's also part of the reason (along with strength) why his rebounding rate is so unorthodoxly high. He simply has a knack for putting himself in most favorable spots.

You shouldn't put Jaric in same category as Welsch and Satoransky....Marko was capable of taking over games by himself, and did that many times in his career, NBA, EuroLeague, Serbian NT. And he often came through in many games that mattered over his career. He was also much better on defense than either of them...he was far better than Welsch or Satoransky.

[baldur]

Jiri welsch was a generational talent. This thread is becoming laughing stock.

[Mirotic12]

Jiri welsch was a generational talent. This thread is becoming laughing stock.

Fran Fraschilla really exposed himself as a pure hack and a total fraud if he actually said that. Just ridiculous....

[XTraderXL]

Haha, comparing Jirka and Doncic is a complete fail. Welsch is a cool guy and was an ok player but to compare those two as players is laughable. Doncic is better at everything than Welsch and its not even close. Welsch was a better scorer in the EL but he was 4 years older and Olimpijas project so he was featured on offense. If Doncic had Jirkas role this year, he would be scoring at the same clip and the rest of his number would improve as well. The only thing they have in common is their height and even here Doncic is taller. If this is really what an "expert" said, then I will not take his opinion seriously.

[pacersGM]

Jiri welsch was a generational talent. This thread is becoming laughing stock.

Fran Fraschilla really exposed himself as a pure hack and a total fraud if he actually said that. Just ridiculous....

Haha, you are ridiculous. You dont have a clue about basketball. I see it more each day. And your not alone. What a bunch of ignorant amateurs dudes decide in a heartbeat that an draft expert doesnt have a clue, based on your opinion. Let me name the biggest **** here before i go. Mirotic ( thinks he knows **** but clearly doesnt, has a spanoulis poster in his room or apartment and lights a candle under it each day) xltraderxl or some sh.... no objective view on stuff that happens around him. Bob8 just a troll without a clue. And a few more. But i wont waste any more brain cells here, so dont bother with a reply as i wont read it. This is so ridicilous that irs not even funny no more. haha. Dudes, your without a feel for the game, without the ability to cross examine the nba and euroleague. Total tunnel vision. And once and for all again: doncic can be only an average nba player with his below average speed, quickness, leaping, wingspan and the 2m of height. With hus awesome iq he can win probably many titles like the legend spanoulis who played 8 minutes per game in the strongest leagye jn the world before becomming the king of europe or the wirkd acording to mirotic. What a buch of **** you are. Damnn. Unbelievable. **** man

[baldur]

Mate just **** out of this thread. You **** the whole thread, people are sick of seeing your bull. You are literally quoting every post just to respond to them for the sake of quoting them. Jiri welsch was nowhere near a generational talent. Even This statement can be discussed in a reasonable fashion with logical people on here but you are just a ****, annoying troll. Mods are only saying Dont tell us what to do. People are saying to you what to do, because you are not doing what you are supposed to do. That's the causation and reasoning.

[Wildlinger]

Do you really think that anybody would rember Bodiroga, Spanoulis, Diamantidis..as legends in Europe, if they weren't the best players of the clubs with multiple titles and many years the best or near the best players in Europe?

Dragic sadly for him never won anything or be at least near to win anything, neither was near to the best when playing in Europe and never in his life in a good club. I wonder why that happened? He never did anything meaningful with his national team too. The same goes for Nba. Some playoffs qualification and 2 statistically very good seasons are not enough to be compared with legends. He's at this moment one of the best Pg's from Europe. But Bodiroga, Diamantidis, Spanoulis...were the best for a decade. I can understand that some people think there's no basketball outside Nba, but there's.

Yep, pretty much. People saying Dragic is better than those kinds of players clearly only really follow the NBA. I've never heard a single basketball fan that follows NBA, national teams, and EuroLeague ever say Dragic is even as good as those players, much less better.

You should probably get out more. Actually people saying that NBA scrubs like Spanoulis or players who are not good enough to play in the NBA like Teodosic are better than an All NBA and MIP guard like Dragic, shouldn't be taken seriously and most definitely never played a day of organized ball in their lives.

What are we even talking about here? Nobody here doubts that Doncic can become one of the best, if not the best Euroleague player. He’s pretty close to that already. On the other hand even the biggest Doncic fans can’t be sure if he’ll actually become one of the best NBA players. Why? Because NBA features a considerably higher level of basketball competition than Euroleague does. I think that’s the basic premise we can all agree on.

Yet players who already had significant success in the NBA like Dragic or Giannis somehow get discounted as worse than clear NBA busts like Spanoulis or Jasikevicius. Only somebody who has absolutely no clue about the vast talent disparity between the 2 leagues can write something as foolish as this. The difference in every single aspect of the game between NBA and Euroleague is almost as big as the difference between NCAA and Euroleague.

What some here are seriously arguing is that Pat Riley doesn’t know as much about basketball as they do and Miami Heat would be clearly better off if they offered an 18 million contract to someone like Spanouilis or Teodosic (or years ago Jasikevicius or Diamantidis) and let them run the team instead. This is crazy talk!

What some here are arguing is that an NBA bust like Spanoulis would easily put up better numbers than 20/6/4 (with the highest FG% among all point guards) if they ran a team like Miami Heat. Actually this is beyond crazy. I guess Riley’s not calling Spanoulis only because NBA GMs just don’t know as much about basketball as some anonymous posters on RealGM do. Do I have this right?

What some here are actually arguing is that Teodosic or Spanoulis (or Diamantidis or Jasikevicius years ago) would in fact become one of the 6 best guards in the NBA if they got a chance to run a Suns team predicted to win something like 20 games. Spanoulis would not just rack up more than 48 wins like Dragic did, but since he’s “a way, way better player than Dragic” he would probably finish the season as a 1st team All NBA member and an MVP candidate. Dragic was only 3rd team after all. That’s what some here are actually trying to argue. In my book that’s the definition of trolling or just plain old crazy talk.

Dragic was at different times the best player and the main ball handler on 3 different NBA teams. Those 3 teams would wipe the floor with any of the european teams that aforementioned “legends” played for. Easily! It wouldn’t even be a serious game.

Dragic’s a proven All NBA and MIP player in the toughest basketball competition there is. On top of that Dragic has also performed very well in international FIBA competitions. He made the All-Tournament Team at the last Eurobasket he played in, than he put up top 3 point guard numbers at the last world cup in Spain and was clearly by far the best player in last years FIBA qualifiers. So what are we even talking about here? Let’s get serious folks.

[XTraderXL]

Do you really think that anybody would rember Bodiroga, Spanoulis, Diamantidis..as legends in Europe, if they weren't the best players of the clubs with multiple titles and many years the best or near the best players in Europe?

Dragic sadly for him never won anything or be at least near to win anything, neither was near to the best when playing in Europe and never in his life in a good club. I wonder why that happened? He never did anything meaningful with his national team too. The same goes for Nba. Some playoffs qualification and 2 statistically very good seasons are not enough to be compared with legends. He's at this moment one of the best Pg's from Europe. But Bodiroga, Diamantidis, Spanoulis...were the best for a decade. I can understand that some people think there's no basketball outside Nba, but there's.

Yep, pretty much. People saying Dragic is better than those kinds of players clearly only really follow the NBA. I've never heard a single basketball fan that follows NBA, national teams, and EuroLeague ever say Dragic is even as good as those players, much less better.

You should probably get out more. Actually people saying that NBA scrubs like Spanoulis or players who are not good enough to play in the NBA like Teodosic are better than an All NBA and MIP guard like Dragic, shouldn't be taken seriously and most definitely never played a day of organized ball in their lives.

What are we even talking about here? Nobody here doubts that Doncic can become one of the best, if not the best Euroleague player. He’s pretty close to that already. On the other hand even the biggest Doncic fans can’t be sure if he’ll actually become one of the best NBA players. Why? Because NBA features a considerably higher level of basketball competition than Euroleague does. I think that’s the basic premise we can all agree on.

Yet players who already had significant success in the NBA like Dragic or Giannis somehow get discounted as worse than clear NBA busts like Spanoulis or Jasikevicius. Only somebody who has absolutely no clue about the vast talent disparity between the 2 leagues can write something as foolish as this. The difference in every single aspect of the game between NBA and Euroleague is almost as big as the difference between NCAA and Eurolegaue.

What some here are seriously arguing is that Pat Riley doesn’t know as much about basketball as they do and Miami Heat would be clearly better off if they offered an 18 million contract to someone like Spanouilis or Teodosic (or years ago Jasikevicius or Diamantidis) and let them run the team instead. This is crazy talk!

What some here are arguing is that an NBA bust like Spanoulis would easily put up better numbers than 20/6/4 (with the highest FG% among all point guards) if they ran a team like Miami Heat. Actually this is beyond crazy. I guess Riley’s not calling Spanoulis only because NBA GMs just don’t know as much about basketball as some anonymous posters on RealGM do. Do I have this right?

What some here are actually arguing is that Teodosic or Spanoulis (or Diamantidis or Jasikevicius years ago) would in fact become one of the 6 best guards in the NBA if they got a chance to run a Suns team predicted to win something like 20 games. Spanoulis would not just rack up more than 48 wins like Dragic did, but since he’s “a way, way better player than Dragic” he would probably finish the season as a 1st team All NBA member and an MVP candidate. Dragic was only 3rd team after all. That’s what some here are actually trying to argue. In my book that’s the definition of trolling or just plain old crazy talk.

Dragic was at different times the best player and the main ball handler on 3 different NBA teams. Those 3 teams would wipe the floor with any of the european teams that aforementioned “legends” played for. Easily! It wouldn’t even be a serious game.

Dragic’s a proven All NBA and MIP player in the toughest basketball competition there is. On top of that Dragic has also performed very well in international FIBA competitions. He made an All-Tournament Team at the last Eurobasket he played in, than he put up top 3 point guard numbers at the last world cup in Spain and was clearly by far the best player in last years FIBA qyalifiers. So what are we even talking about here? Let’s get serious folks.

Why do you bother responding to posts like this? If someone is claiming Spanoulis is better than Dragic, that ends the debate right there and is not even worth responding. The mentioned guys could not make it in by far the best league in the world, they were scrubs. Dragic was a 45th pick, he fought for every minute he got, nothing was given to him and he had to prove himself every single day. That alone makes him tougher than all those guys and I would rather have a fighter like Goran on my team over any of those guys any day. They didnt have the dog in them to fight for their spot in the rotation, they just played it safe and went back home to mommy where is safe and cosy. Teodosic is a good player but on the other hand he is scared to go to the NBA and even try to prove himself at the next level. Same with Llull. Goran for them is what they should look up to, claiming something else is just idiotic.

[pacersGM]

Do you really think that anybody would rember Bodiroga, Spanoulis, Diamantidis..as legends in Europe, if they weren't the best players of the clubs with multiple titles and many years the best or near the best players in Europe?

Dragic sadly for him never won anything or be at least near to win anything, neither was near to the best when playing in Europe and never in his life in a good club. I wonder why that happened? He never did anything meaningful with his national team too. The same goes for Nba. Some playoffs qualification and 2 statistically very good seasons are not enough to be compared with legends. He's at this moment one of the best Pg's from Europe. But Bodiroga, Diamantidis, Spanoulis...were the best for a decade. I can understand that some people think there's no basketball outside Nba, but there's.

Yep, pretty much. People saying Dragic is better than those kinds of players clearly only really follow the NBA. I've never heard a single basketball fan that follows NBA, national teams, and EuroLeague ever say Dragic is even as good as those players, much less better.

You should probably get out more. Actually people saying that NBA scrubs like Spanoulis or players who are not good enough to play in the NBA like Teodosic are better than an All NBA and MIP guard like Dragic, shouldn't be taken seriously and most definitely never played a day of organized ball in their lives.

What are we even talking about here? Nobody here doubts that Doncic can become one of the best, if not the best Euroleague player. He’s pretty close to that already. On the other hand even the biggest Doncic fans can’t be sure if he’ll actually become one of the best NBA players. Why? Because NBA features a considerably higher level of basketball competition than Euroleague does. I think that’s the basic premise we can all agree on.

Yet players who already had significant success in the NBA like Dragic or Giannis somehow get discounted as worse than clear NBA busts like Spanoulis or Jasikevicius. Only somebody who has absolutely no clue about the vast talent disparity between the 2 leagues can write something as foolish as this. The difference in every single aspect of the game between NBA and Euroleague is almost as big as the difference between NCAA and Euroleague.

What some here are seriously arguing is that Pat Riley doesn’t know as much about basketball as they do and Miami Heat would be clearly better off if they offered an 18 million contract to someone like Spanouilis or Teodosic (or years ago Jasikevicius or Diamantidis) and let them run the team instead. This is crazy talk!

What some here are arguing is that an NBA bust like Spanoulis would easily put up better numbers than 20/6/4 (with the highest FG% among all point guards) if they ran a team like Miami Heat. Actually this is beyond crazy. I guess Riley’s not calling Spanoulis only because NBA GMs just don’t know as much about basketball as some anonymous posters on RealGM do. Do I have this right?

What some here are actually arguing is that Teodosic or Spanoulis (or Diamantidis or Jasikevicius years ago) would in fact become one of the 6 best guards in the NBA if they got a chance to run a Suns team predicted to win something like 20 games. Spanoulis would not just rack up more than 48 wins like Dragic did, but since he’s “a way, way better player than Dragic” he would probably finish the season as a 1st team All NBA member and an MVP candidate. Dragic was only 3rd team after all. That’s what some here are actually trying to argue. In my book that’s the definition of trolling or just plain old crazy talk.

Dragic was at different times the best player and the main ball handler on 3 different NBA teams. Those 3 teams would wipe the floor with any of the european teams that aforementioned “legends” played for. Easily! It wouldn’t even be a serious game.

Dragic’s a proven All NBA and MIP player in the toughest basketball competition there is. On top of that Dragic has also performed very well in international FIBA competitions. He made an All-Tournament Team at the last Eurobasket he played in, than he put up top 3 point guard numbers at the last world cup in Spain and was clearly by far the best player in last years FIBA qualifiers. So what are we even talking about here? Let’s get serious folks.

thank you lord! there are normal people here after all. now i can get out of here having found inner peace.

[Bob8]

Yep, pretty much. People saying Dragic is better than those kinds of players clearly only really follow the NBA. I've never heard a single basketball fan that follows NBA, national teams, and EuroLeague ever say Dragic is even as good as those players, much less better.

You should probably get out more. Actually people saying that NBA scrubs like Spanoulis or players who are not good enough to play in the NBA like Teodosic are better than an All NBA and MIP guard like Dragic, shouldn't be taken seriously and most definitely never played a day of organized ball in their lives.

What are we even talking about here? Nobody here doubts that Doncic can become one of the best, if not the best Euroleague player. He’s pretty close to that already. On the other hand even the biggest Doncic fans can’t be sure if he’ll actually become one of the best NBA players. Why? Because NBA features a considerably higher level of basketball competition than Euroleague does. I think that’s the basic premise we can all agree on.

Yet players who already had significant success in the NBA like Dragic or Giannis somehow get discounted as worse than clear NBA busts like Spanoulis or Jasikevicius. Only somebody who has absolutely no clue about the vast talent disparity between the 2 leagues can write something as foolish as this. The difference in every single aspect of the game between NBA and Euroleague is almost as big as the difference between NCAA and Eurolegaue.

What some here are seriously arguing is that Pat Riley doesn’t know as much about basketball as they do and Miami Heat would be clearly better off if they offered an 18 million contract to someone like Spanouilis or Teodosic (or years ago Jasikevicius or Diamantidis) and let them run the team instead. This is crazy talk!

What some here are arguing is that an NBA bust like Spanoulis would easily put up better numbers than 20/6/4 (with the highest FG% among all point guards) if they ran a team like Miami Heat. Actually this is beyond crazy. I guess Riley’s not calling Spanoulis only because NBA GMs just don’t know as much about basketball as some anonymous posters on RealGM do. Do I have this right?

What some here are actually arguing is that Teodosic or Spanoulis (or Diamantidis or Jasikevicius years ago) would in fact become one of the 6 best guards in the NBA if they got a chance to run a Suns team predicted to win something like 20 games. Spanoulis would not just rack up more than 48 wins like Dragic did, but since he’s “a way, way better player than Dragic” he would probably finish the season as a 1st team All NBA member and an MVP candidate. Dragic was only 3rd team after all. That’s what some here are actually trying to argue. In my book that’s the definition of trolling or just plain old crazy talk.

Dragic was at different times the best player and the main ball handler on 3 different NBA teams. Those 3 teams would wipe the floor with any of the european teams that aforementioned “legends” played for. Easily! It wouldn’t even be a serious game.

Dragic’s a proven All NBA and MIP player in the toughest basketball competition there is. On top of that Dragic has also performed very well in international FIBA competitions. He made an All-Tournament Team at the last Eurobasket he played in, than he put up top 3 point guard numbers at the last world cup in Spain and was clearly by far the best player in last years FIBA qyalifiers. So what are we even talking about here? Let’s get serious folks.

Why do you bother responding to posts like this? If someone is claiming Spanoulis is better than Dragic, that ends the debate right there and is not even worth responding. The mentioned guys could not make it in by far the best league in the world, they were scrubs. Dragic was a 45th pick, he fought for every minute he got, nothing was given to him and he had to prove himself every single day. That alone makes him tougher than all those guys and I would rather have a fighter like Goran on my team over any of those guys any day. They didnt have the dog in them to fight for their spot in the rotation, they just played it safe and went back home to mommy where is safe and cosy. Teodosic is a good player but on the other hand he is scared to go to the NBA and even try to prove himself at the next level. Same with Llull. Goran for them is what they should look up to, claiming something else is just idiotic.

You seriously think that in any basketball country in Europe, except in Slovenia, end even there I wouldn't be 100% sure, people who watch basketball will agree that list of best Pgs mentioned is in that order, 1.Dragic and behind him Bodiroga-Spanoulis-Diamantidis-Teodosic?

If you're right and only criteria is playing in Nba than you should put Udrih and Rubio in front of Bodiroga&co. too.

[SportsGuy8]

Nice coast-to-coast at 15 seconds:

Watch on YouTube

Finish was a bit awkward, but he showed top speed again. This is part of athleticism also. How many players in the NBA are even capable of first getting a contested rebound, then sprinting full speed with the ball to the other basket? I can only think of some stars ...

[XTraderXL]

You should probably get out more. Actually people saying that NBA scrubs like Spanoulis or players who are not good enough to play in the NBA like Teodosic are better than an All NBA and MIP guard like Dragic, shouldn't be taken seriously and most definitely never played a day of organized ball in their lives.

What are we even talking about here? Nobody here doubts that Doncic can become one of the best, if not the best Euroleague player. He’s pretty close to that already. On the other hand even the biggest Doncic fans can’t be sure if he’ll actually become one of the best NBA players. Why? Because NBA features a considerably higher level of basketball competition than Euroleague does. I think that’s the basic premise we can all agree on.

Yet players who already had significant success in the NBA like Dragic or Giannis somehow get discounted as worse than clear NBA busts like Spanoulis or Jasikevicius. Only somebody who has absolutely no clue about the vast talent disparity between the 2 leagues can write something as foolish as this. The difference in every single aspect of the game between NBA and Euroleague is almost as big as the difference between NCAA and Eurolegaue.

What some here are seriously arguing is that Pat Riley doesn’t know as much about basketball as they do and Miami Heat would be clearly better off if they offered an 18 million contract to someone like Spanouilis or Teodosic (or years ago Jasikevicius or Diamantidis) and let them run the team instead. This is crazy talk!

What some here are arguing is that an NBA bust like Spanoulis would easily put up better numbers than 20/6/4 (with the highest FG% among all point guards) if they ran a team like Miami Heat. Actually this is beyond crazy. I guess Riley’s not calling Spanoulis only because NBA GMs just don’t know as much about basketball as some anonymous posters on RealGM do. Do I have this right?

What some here are actually arguing is that Teodosic or Spanoulis (or Diamantidis or Jasikevicius years ago) would in fact become one of the 6 best guards in the NBA if they got a chance to run a Suns team predicted to win something like 20 games. Spanoulis would not just rack up more than 48 wins like Dragic did, but since he’s “a way, way better player than Dragic” he would probably finish the season as a 1st team All NBA member and an MVP candidate. Dragic was only 3rd team after all. That’s what some here are actually trying to argue. In my book that’s the definition of trolling or just plain old crazy talk.

Dragic was at different times the best player and the main ball handler on 3 different NBA teams. Those 3 teams would wipe the floor with any of the european teams that aforementioned “legends” played for. Easily! It wouldn’t even be a serious game.

Dragic’s a proven All NBA and MIP player in the toughest basketball competition there is. On top of that Dragic has also performed very well in international FIBA competitions. He made an All-Tournament Team at the last Eurobasket he played in, than he put up top 3 point guard numbers at the last world cup in Spain and was clearly by far the best player in last years FIBA qyalifiers. So what are we even talking about here? Let’s get serious folks.

Why do you bother responding to posts like this? If someone is claiming Spanoulis is better than Dragic, that ends the debate right there and is not even worth responding. The mentioned guys could not make it in by far the best league in the world, they were scrubs. Dragic was a 45th pick, he fought for every minute he got, nothing was given to him and he had to prove himself every single day. That alone makes him tougher than all those guys and I would rather have a fighter like Goran on my team over any of those guys any day. They didnt have the dog in them to fight for their spot in the rotation, they just played it safe and went back home to mommy where is safe and cosy. Teodosic is a good player but on the other hand he is scared to go to the NBA and even try to prove himself at the next level. Same with Llull. Goran for them is what they should look up to, claiming something else is just idiotic.

You seriously think that in any basketball country in Europe, except in Slovenia, end even there I wouldn't be 100% sure, people who watch basketball will agree that list of best Pgs mentioned is in that order, 1.Dragic and behind him Bodiroga-Spanoulis-Diamantidis-Teodosic?

If you're right and only criteria is playing in Nba than you should put Udrih and Rubio in front of Bodiroga&co. too.

It is hard to compare Dragic to those players since he is playing in the best league in the world where none of them could make it or didnt have the balls to even try it. Spanoulis went there and came back because he just didnt have it and the rest did not even go to the NBA. I would take a guy who is one of the best PGs in the NBA in the era where PG position is the most stacked in history of the league over guys who couldnt make it or didnt dare to go because they were afraid they wont make it and they were probably correct . How can you have those guys in front of Dragic as players if he is the only one to make it at the top level? It just doesnt make sense.

You said that in Europe nobody would say that Dragic is better than those guys. You are way wrong but even if you are right, thats because they are EL legends and Dragic never really played in Europe except when he was a young buck. That does not mean that they are better players than Goran. I could also say people in the US would never say that any of those guys is better than Dragic. You really have to come up with a better argument. For you the only opinions that count are from Euro fans but not of people who follow basketball in a country that is far superior to Europe in the sport.

[Wildlinger]

You seriously think that in any basketball country in Europe, except in Slovenia, end even there I wouldn't be 100% sure, people who watch basketball will agree that list of best Pgs mentioned is in that order, 1.Dragic and behind him Bodiroga-Spanoulis-Diamantidis-Teodosic?

If you're right and only criteria is playing in Nba than you should put Udrih and Rubio in front of Bodiroga&co. too.

First of all Bodiroga was never a point guard. Let's get this straight. He was a small forward who also played as a point forward. I don't know why you keep mentioning him as a PG. He was "the best player not in the NBA" in his prime and will therefore never be mentioned in the same breath as the other NBA legends of his time. To be considered one of the very best you have to prove yourself against the best competition there is. And by far the best competition is in the NBA.

Any objective basketball fan could easily determine that Dragic is better than Spanoulis, Teodosic, Diamantidis or Llull. If you watch Dragic run the Heat this season and compare him to Spanoulis running Olympiacos or Teodosic running CSKA, you can clearly see that Dragic is the better player on a higher level of competition. It's not even a debate.

The last time Dragic played against Spanoulis, Slovenia beat Greece and Dragic thoroughly outplayed Spanoulis. Dragic put up 28 PTS on 9/18 shooting with 5 REB and 4 AST (2 TO) in 26 minutes, while Spanoulis put up 21 PTS on 6/13 shooting with 8 REB and 3 AST (6 TO) in 36 minutes. Dragic had way better numbers in 10 minutes less. So yes, Dragic is the better player. You have to be blind not to see this.

None of the players you mentioned were ever considered a top 10 point guard in the NBA which would also make them a top 10 point guard in the world. Dragic on the other hand was and arguably still is. And no, the criteria is not just playing in the NBA. That would be just as foolish as some of your claims. Udrih and Rubio never achieved as much as Dragic has or played at the level he did. Surely you have to be aware of this?

Right now the NBA is going through what can only be described as the golden age of point guards and the level of competition at this position was never as high as it is right now. Westbrook, Harden, Paul, Curry, Thomas, Wall, Lowry, Lillard, Conley, Irving, Walker, Bledsoe, Teague and Dragic. All of those players are clearly better than any point guard playing in the Euroleague right now. This will become painfully obvious to some Euroleague fanboys if Teodosic (dubbed the best player not in the NBA) ever decides to come over.

[Wildlinger]

Nice coast-to-coast at 15 seconds:

Watch on YouTube

Finish was a bit awkward, but he showed top speed again. This is part of athleticism also. How many players in the NBA are even capable of first getting a contested rebound, then sprinting full speed with the ball to the other basket? I can only think of some stars ...

I think that Luka's presumed lack of athleticism is a bit overstated and in some cases oversimplified. He has solid strength and speed (with and without the ball) for an 18 year old playing in the Euroleague.

I already saw him hold his own in the post against some Euroleague bigs this season. He struggles more when he has to chase guards around screens than he does when he switches on bigs. I think his core strength is seriously underestimated. He'll get much stronger over the next few years so I don't think he'll ever really be overpowered as a wing player in the NBA.

His speed is also quite good. This wasn't the first coast to coast this season. He does that almost every game. His finishing at the rim still needs a lot of work though, but that's where explosiveness comes into play. He's not explosive and his first step is not that good. That's one of the areas where he'll have to show some improvement over the next year. He's entering the most important part of his career from a physical development standpoint. You can improve considerably between the ages of 17 and 21-22.

If he shows that he can consistently beat at least some guys using his first step and develops a little bit of a pull up game along with a bit better finishing at the rim, he'll definitely be a top 3 pick next year in one of the best drafts in a generation.

[Bob8]

It's easy. If Dragic is really that good, he should show that in Eurobasket. He's playing the best basketball of his career now in the best league. He should dominate in Eurobasket or at least be far the best Pg in the tournament. We will see.

[SportsGuy8]

Nice coast-to-coast at 15 seconds:

Watch on YouTube

Finish was a bit awkward, but he showed top speed again. This is part of athleticism also. How many players in the NBA are even capable of first getting a contested rebound, then sprinting full speed with the ball to the other basket? I can only think of some stars ...

I think that Luka's presumed lack of athleticism is a bit overstated and in some cases oversimplified. He has solid strength and speed (with and without the ball) for an 18 year old playing in the Euroleague.

I already saw him hold his own in the post against some Euroleague bigs this season. He struggles more when he has to chase guards around screens than he does when he switches on bigs. I think his core strength is seriously underestimated. He'll get much stronger over the next few years so I don't think he'll ever really be overpowered as a wing player in the NBA.

His speed is also quite good. This wasn't the first coast to coast this season. He does that every game. His finishing at the rim still needs a lot of work though, but that's where explosiveness comes into play. He's not explosive and his first step is not that good. That's one of the areas where he'll have to show some improvement over the next year. He's entering the most important part of his career from a physical development standpoint. You can improve considerably between the ages of 17 and 21-22.

If he shows he can consistently beat at least some guys using his first step and develops a little bit of a pull up game along with a bit better finishing at the rim, he'll definitely be a top 3 pick next year in one of the best drafts in a generation.

Yeah, pretty much. I hate to repeat myself, but I truly believe he's eventually going to transition to Andre Miller-like bully-ball and be the one who's going to be bullying others (PGs, SGs, even many other SFs, although not all, obviously). He's already strong and has the right frame to get even substantially stronger.

And while getting even stronger is almost a sure thing, we're going to have to wait a couple years to see what happens to his explosiveness. As you said, the following few years are going to give an answer to that.

[Wildlinger]

It's easy. If Dragic is really that good, he should show that in Eurobasket. He's playing the best basketball of his career now in the best league. He should dominate in Eurobasket or at least be far the best Pg in the tournament. We will see.

We already saw. Dragic was All-Tournament in his last Eurobasket and the only point guard better than him was a fellow NBA player Tony Parker (and not Spanoulis who also played in that tournament). Dragic was also 2nd in pts (behind Barea) and 2nd in FG% (behind Irving) among point guards in his last world cup tournament. He was also the best player in last year's FIBA qualifiers. I suggest you do some basic research before posting.