Where would Fultz and Ball rank in the last 5 drafts

[Duke4life831]

Am I missing something? Simmons isn't a consensus generational prospect like Anthony Davis was, why is it crazy to say Simmons wouldn't go top 5 in a redraft of the past 5 drafts? Simmons was the #1 overall in his draft, yes....but his draft is considered to be a weak draft.

I've come around to Simmons, but I don't think he is really above the top 3 or 4 players in this years draft. I think someone like Lonzo Ball seems like a better prospect, perhaps same tier.

Its because some feel like he is on the Anthony Davis level prospect. I agree with you 100%, I think Simmons would be in the same tier as Lonzo, Fultz, Tatum, Jackson and DSJ. I could see him go #1 just like I could potentially see any of those other guys go #1, or I could see him slide to 4th or 5th. I dont think its crazy to say if he was in this draft that the draft may go

1.Fultz
2.Ball
3.Jackson
4.Simmons

I dont think thats all that crazy to say that.

[Disposable Hero]

I don't really understand how people have Simmons going first, with his questionable shooting and defensive effort.

it shouldn't need explanation really. He's 6'10" and highly skilled. Big men like him don't come around often. Teams draft players for future production and probably saw enough to project him to be a good enough shooter and serviceable defender. These are 20 year old kids (sometimes younger) with several years of development ahead of them. Saying any of them are incapable of anything does them a disservice. I don't know if you have followed the Celtics but Avery Bradley is a perfect example of someone who works diligently at his craft and has improved bit by bit each year he's been in the league. Now he's made himself a valuable two way player and that is despite his height deficiency and still questionable handle and passing.

[Worm Guts]

I don't really understand how people have Simmons going first, with his questionable shooting and defensive effort.

it shouldn't need explanation really. He's 6'10" and highly skilled. Big men like him don't come around often. Teams draft players for future production and probably saw enough to project him to be a good enough shooter and serviceable defender. These are 20 year old kids (sometimes younger) with several years of development ahead of them. Saying any of them are incapable of anything does them a disservice. I don't know if you have followed the Celtics but Avery Bradley is a perfect example of someone who works diligently at his craft and has improved bit by bit each year he's been in the league. Now he's made himself a valuable two way player and that is despite his height deficiency and still questionable handle and passing.

That's all fine, but I don't see how he's a better prospect than Towns was.

[PLO]

^^ I guess we have a different definition of what "terrible" ft shooting actually is

[PLO]

Please, Ball or Jackson ahead of Simmons?!

[BillyKingGM]

Said it before the year and I still feel the same way. I think Simmons would go 4th or 5th in this draft.

Simmons was a consensus #1. This draft doesn't have a consensus #1 type of player (it has several "second tier" players). Simmons would go first and it wouldn't be close.

No, he wouldn't. Stop it. JJ would prob go ahead of Simmons, freaking poowater Ingram had an argument

stopping by to give this a hefty LOL

[cksdayoff]

Simmons as a prospect is a tier above everyone else in this draft.

[peachbucket]

Simmons as a prospect is a tier above everyone else in this draft.

Please explain how he's above Fultz??

[cksdayoff]

Simmons as a prospect is a tier above everyone else in this draft.

Please explain how he's above Fultz??

6'10" super athletic point guard (Sixers plan on starting him at PG next season) with elite handles, passing and vision and great finishing ability around the basket?

People were using the term "generational talent" quite a bit before last year's draft, some were dubbing him the best prospect since LeBron. I'm factoring in the pre-draft hype of Ben Simmons as a prospect.

Fultz is my #1 prospect this year followed by Josh Jackson. I've seen enough to know how skilled he is offensively, and his passing skills have gone criminally underrated imo.

[PLO]

Simmons as a prospect is a tier above everyone else in this draft.

Please explain how he's above Fultz??

6'10" super athletic point guard (Sixers plan on starting him at PG next season) with elite handles, passing and vision and great finishing ability around the basket?

People were using the term "generational talent" quite a bit before last year's draft, some were dubbing him the best prospect since LeBron. I'm factoring in the pre-draft hype of Ben Simmons as a prospect.

Fultz is my #1 prospect this year followed by Josh Jackson. I've seen enough to know how skilled he is offensively, and his passing skills have gone criminally underrated imo.

I roughly agree with this, though I was much higher on Jackson earlier in the season when he was playing defense like a dog shot in the arse - as the seasons wore on I think we've seen some of his deficiencies on that end, while his offensive abilities have blossomed (albeit from a pretty low level). I think he's a pretty safe prospect but not outstanding in any one area.

[HeartBreakKid]

Simmons as a prospect is a tier above everyone else in this draft.

Please explain how he's above Fultz??

6'10" super athletic point guard (Sixers plan on starting him at PG next season) with elite handles, passing and vision and great finishing ability around the basket?

People were using the term "generational talent" quite a bit before last year's draft, some were dubbing him the best prospect since LeBron. I'm factoring in the pre-draft hype of Ben Simmons as a prospect.

Fultz is my #1 prospect this year followed by Josh Jackson. I've seen enough to know how skilled he is offensively, and his passing skills have gone criminally underrated imo.

Ben Simmons was not considered a "generational" prospect. There is no such thing as a generational prospect in a weak draft, and there is no such thing as a generational prospect being challenged for the #1 spot, which for a long period of time Ben Simmons was neck to neck with Ingram (unless you're saying Ingram is also a generational prospect).

Some people look on youtube and see 3 minutes of highlights from certain players and use the term generational, so yes, I'm sure some people called Ben Simmons a generational prospect. The only thing that is "generational" is his passing ability, I have no idea how anyone could think Ben Simmons is the best prospect since Lebron James, that is seriously laughable - LBJ was drafted in 2003, so for anyone to say that likely does not have much credibility if they think Simmons is superior to Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Greg Oden etc.

As a college prospect, Ben Simmons didn't even have the hype of John Wall, so I am not getting where he is a God among men all of a sudden.


Ben Simmons has way more question marks than someone like Towns does, no one even knows what position Ben Simmons will even excel at. Simmons can't shoot, isn't that strong for someone his height, questionable how his defense will translate - there are plenty of question marks on how good his half court play will come to be. Simmons was worthy of being picked #1 overall, and is a legitimate blue chipper, but comparing him to the likes of Karl Towns seems crazy at this point, I am pretty sure if Towns and Simmons were in the same draft Towns would be picked over him.

[Duke4life831]

Simmons as a prospect is a tier above everyone else in this draft.

Please explain how he's above Fultz??

6'10" super athletic point guard (Sixers plan on starting him at PG next season) with elite handles, passing and vision and great finishing ability around the basket?

People were using the term "generational talent" quite a bit before last year's draft, some were dubbing him the best prospect since LeBron. I'm factoring in the pre-draft hype of Ben Simmons as a prospect.

Fultz is my #1 prospect this year followed by Josh Jackson. I've seen enough to know how skilled he is offensively, and his passing skills have gone criminally underrated imo.

Hes a PG that cant defend PGs and cant shoot outside of 5 feet. And his passing is really flashy but again 4.7 ast a game compared to 3.8 TOs a game in conference play. I saw a lot of Magic comparisons for Simmons, Magic at the same age averaged 8.4 asts a game and lead his team to the championship.

And barely anyone who called him a generational talent and most college basketball guys ended up liking Ingram more than Simmons by the time the draft came around.

Hell Dino Gaudio was one of those people that were saying Simmons was a generational talent, he said in November of that year that Ben Simmons was the best player in college basketball and would be the best player in the world in a few years. Here is Dino later on in March

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=15034577

If you dont want to click the link, it is Dino Gaudio saying he thinks Ingram was going to be the better pro.

[510TWSS]

I'll go...

Towns

Simmons (a)
Fultz (b)
Ball
Embiid (*)

a/b: I went with Simmons over Fultz as Simmons is frankly taller with a unique blend of playmaking skill at the 4 with the hope he gains an outside shot. If he defends at an average level and becomes a playmaking 4 with above average efficiency he's worthy to go behind Towns.

Fultz gives you that feeling he will be the next Harden or Roy type lead guard. Much like how teams went with Thabeet over Harden even though Harden was the surer bet to be an offensive contributor. I think teams will recognize Fultz unique blend of youth and offensive skill. However teams still covet height when two comparable prospects are being decided.

*: I think Embiid goes 5th in this scenario as I think teams would go with the surer bet in Ball. He can be the face of your franchise and lead the way in the lean years while your teams gains picks around him. Embiid is still worth to go 5th even knowing you'll have to wait. I would definitely invest in a back up C for whichever teams ends up drafting Joel.

[Illmatic12]

I think the consensus draft boards would be close to this...

Tier 1
1a. Towns
1b. Embiid (without injury)
2. Fultz

Tier 2
3. Jackson
4. Ball
5. Simmons

Tier 3
6. Parker
7. Wiggins
8. Russell
9. Ingram
10. Okafor

I agree that there's a pretty good case for Jackson to be in the group... very strong for a potential #3.

I'd say Embiid without injury doesn't exist... which is why he wasn't on my list

I would say that this list doesn't exist because these prospects are from different years...it's a hypothetical exercise to compare prospects...that's why I included Embiid.

A couple of caveats to my list...

I have Simmons ranked lower than he should be because of the competitive issues he showed at LSU...from a pure basketball perspective I think he belongs at the end of Tier1 or the top of Tier2 ahead of Jackson as he will be a double digit rebounder in the NBA.

Also, I think Ball has a good chance to end up a transcendant player (like Steve Nash) and may very well belong in Tier1 ahead of Fultz...I'm just hesitant to put him there right now because he will require the right offensive system (ball movement, surrounded by scorers), time to mature physically, and possible overhaul his shot mechanics...although I do expect him to get there.

Ball doesn't compare to Steve Nash.. he can't even run a PnR. I think he has a very slim to nonexistent chance of being a transcendent NBA player on the level of prime Nash

If they were in the same draft class, Simmons, Wiggins and Parker would go above Ball just based on physical tools alone and the ceiling they were expected to have.

[Duke4life831]

I agree that there's a pretty good case for Jackson to be in the group... very strong for a potential #3.

I'd say Embiid without injury doesn't exist... which is why he wasn't on my list

I would say that this list doesn't exist because these prospects are from different years...it's a hypothetical exercise to compare prospects...that's why I included Embiid.

A couple of caveats to my list...

I have Simmons ranked lower than he should be because of the competitive issues he showed at LSU...from a pure basketball perspective I think he belongs at the end of Tier1 or the top of Tier2 ahead of Jackson as he will be a double digit rebounder in the NBA.

Also, I think Ball has a good chance to end up a transcendant player (like Steve Nash) and may very well belong in Tier1 ahead of Fultz...I'm just hesitant to put him there right now because he will require the right offensive system (ball movement, surrounded by scorers), time to mature physically, and possible overhaul his shot mechanics...although I do expect him to get there.

Ball doesn't compare to Steve Nash.. he can't even run a PnR. I think he has a very slim to nonexistent chance of being a transcendent NBA player on the level of prime Nash

If they were in the same draft class, Simmons, Wiggins and Parker would go above Ball just based on physical tools alone and the ceiling they were expected to have.

I would say Ball has really good physical tools as well. Hes a 6'6 PG that is a really good athlete.

[Illmatic12]

I would say that this list doesn't exist because these prospects are from different years...it's a hypothetical exercise to compare prospects...that's why I included Embiid.

A couple of caveats to my list...

I have Simmons ranked lower than he should be because of the competitive issues he showed at LSU...from a pure basketball perspective I think he belongs at the end of Tier1 or the top of Tier2 ahead of Jackson as he will be a double digit rebounder in the NBA.

Also, I think Ball has a good chance to end up a transcendant player (like Steve Nash) and may very well belong in Tier1 ahead of Fultz...I'm just hesitant to put him there right now because he will require the right offensive system (ball movement, surrounded by scorers), time to mature physically, and possible overhaul his shot mechanics...although I do expect him to get there.

Ball doesn't compare to Steve Nash.. he can't even run a PnR. I think he has a very slim to nonexistent chance of being a transcendent NBA player on the level of prime Nash

If they were in the same draft class, Simmons, Wiggins and Parker would go above Ball just based on physical tools alone and the ceiling they were expected to have.

I would say Ball has really good physical tools as well. Hes a 6'6 PG that is a really good athlete.

Compared to Simmons, Wiggins and Parker? He'll be a solid NBA athlete, but his athleticism/explosiveness is nonexistent compared to those guys

[Duke4life831]

Ball doesn't compare to Steve Nash.. he can't even run a PnR. I think he has a very slim to nonexistent chance of being a transcendent NBA player on the level of prime Nash

If they were in the same draft class, Simmons, Wiggins and Parker would go above Ball just based on physical tools alone and the ceiling they were expected to have.

I would say Ball has really good physical tools as well. Hes a 6'6 PG that is a really good athlete.

Compared to Simmons, Wiggins and Parker? He'll be a solid NBA athlete, but his athleticism/explosiveness is nonexistent compared to those guys

He may not be as explosive as those guys, but he has a bigger height advantage over his position than those guys do.

[Illmatic12]

I would say Ball has really good physical tools as well. Hes a 6'6 PG that is a really good athlete.

Compared to Simmons, Wiggins and Parker? He'll be a solid NBA athlete, but his athleticism/explosiveness is nonexistent compared to those guys

He may not be as explosive as those guys, but he has a bigger height advantage over his position than those guys do.

I mean, so does MCW.

Don't think the height/length advantage matters as much as the fact that he doesn't have an elite first step or explosion at his position. That's what would have really separated him.

[DrCoach]

EMBIID
Towns
Simmons
Fultz
Ball
Russel
Porzingus

[eagereyez]

Please explain how he's above Fultz??

6'10" super athletic point guard (Sixers plan on starting him at PG next season) with elite handles, passing and vision and great finishing ability around the basket?

People were using the term "generational talent" quite a bit before last year's draft, some were dubbing him the best prospect since LeBron. I'm factoring in the pre-draft hype of Ben Simmons as a prospect.

Fultz is my #1 prospect this year followed by Josh Jackson. I've seen enough to know how skilled he is offensively, and his passing skills have gone criminally underrated imo.

Ben Simmons was not considered a "generational" prospect. There is no such thing as a generational prospect in a weak draft, and there is no such thing as a generational prospect being challenged for the #1 spot, which for a long period of time Ben Simmons was neck to neck with Ingram (unless you're saying Ingram is also a generational prospect).

Some people look on youtube and see 3 minutes of highlights from certain players and use the term generational, so yes, I'm sure some people called Ben Simmons a generational prospect. The only thing that is "generational" is his passing ability, I have no idea how anyone could think Ben Simmons is the best prospect since Lebron James, that is seriously laughable - LBJ was drafted in 2003, so for anyone to say that likely does not have much credibility if they think Simmons is superior to Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Greg Oden etc.

As a college prospect, Ben Simmons didn't even have the hype of John Wall, so I am not getting where he is a God among men all of a sudden.


Ben Simmons has way more question marks than someone like Towns does, no one even knows what position Ben Simmons will even excel at. Simmons can't shoot, isn't that strong for someone his height, questionable how his defense will translate - there are plenty of question marks on how good his half court play will come to be. Simmons was worthy of being picked #1 overall, and is a legitimate blue chipper, but comparing him to the likes of Karl Towns seems crazy at this point, I am pretty sure if Towns and Simmons were in the same draft Towns would be picked over him.

The 'debate' between Ingram and Simmons was mostly fueled by Woj and his cronies at DX. The Sixers had the #1 pick, and they told Simmons he was the #1 pick after one workout, a few weeks prior to the draft. It really wasn't close at all. People need to stop believing that mock boards and ESPN talk shows actually matter.