2019 Draft Class

[nolang1]

i love this draft class
mostly because of UK (pj washington, keldon johnson, and tyler herro).

given how disciplined herro played under calipari, and although his high school mixtapes show him as a great one on one shot creator vs lesser competition, he could be a really, really excellent rip hamilton type of guy if he gets the right coach and system.

Kentucky was a borderline top 10 team in a weak year for college basketball as a whole. I understand that sometimes the whole isn't quite as good as the sum of its parts, but I'm having a hard time seeing how the 3rd-best player on a college team that wasn't some dominant juggernaut is supposed to be a difference-maker in the NBA.

better Kentucky class than '18 IMO.

Herro/PJ/Keldon

Knox/Shai/Vanderbilt

and I liked SGA/Vanderbilt

Well that would leave Knox, who was dead last in the league in RPM and has a long way to go to not be a total bust, as the 3rd-best. So like I said, how is one college team that wasn't that great supposed to have multiple NBA prospects worth getting excited about? At least last year, someone like Vanderbilt wasn't helping the team much because he was limited due to injury and got drafted in the 2nd round based on what he showed in high school. I get that it's much easier to just 'like' every prospect so that whenever some late pick pans out, you get to say 'see I told you so' while the 20-30 other players who wash out of the league are quickly forgotten, but if a college team has 3 lottery picks (and the supporting cast isn't all walk-ons) that's typically enough to steamroll the vast majority of teams to a much greater degree than Kentucky did.

[Roddy B for 3]

Everyone focuses on Herro as just a 3pt shooter but his midrange game is sick. Feathery mid range J with all sorts of step backs and pull ups, an array of floaters, touch shots and runners, a number of different releases. He’s gonna flourish with the space to attack close outs and be a secondary handler in the PnR in addition to all the things everyone expects.

If he's the focal point of the offense he gets the defenses #1 guy on him.

I say this because if he's going up against PG13/Kwahi/Jimmy Butler/MKG/Roberson types he will fail. At least early in his career.

He could probably play his game against Bogdonvich/DeRozen types or or PG's

I think he will struggle against players with quicker feet than him, guys who can stay in front of him and also can reach above his realese point on his shot. Which deep in the postseason most every team has a guy like that.

I would wager Keldon Johnson ate him up in practice. DeAndre would've made him look horrible if locked in to the level he was against Culver. I think Mikal Bridges would shut him down. But, against below average perimeter defenders (guys who Herro can shake or shoot over) Herro should be a valuable piece.

You people have talked me into moving him into the first round.

I still have Barrett, Hunter, Keldon, NAW, Langford, and Thybulle ahead as SG's.

Including Herro that would be seven SG's succeeding which an average draft has only five or six. Of course some people have Hunter, Barrett, and Thybulle as SF prospects.

So, it wouldn't shock me if Herro works out. I'd be quite surprised if he became as good as Rip Hamilton. Rip Hamilton could run for days he was compared to a greyhound. He was a master of slithering around screens to get free and straight up out ran his defenders over the course of a game. He had some of the best endurance I've seen in my almost 20 years of watching NBA. Plus, Herros described game sounds more like Kwahi Leonard (dribbling into mid-range shots or looking for kick outs and running off screens for threes than Hamilton's game which was almost strictly running off screens for mid range shots. Theirs a world of difference between pull up mid range shots and mid range shots comming just of a screen. Mid range shots off screens are extremely rare and very complicated to defend. Vs the pull up which you simply need to smother the guy defensively, which Herro looks small and slow by NBA SG standards so he should be easy to "smother" defensively, for the best teams)

This board has convinced me to put a first round grade on Herro.

[karkinos]

Herro's film from high school is a complete 180 of what he played like in college. In calipari's system a majority of his looks came off of ball screens, not in a one on one iso from the top of the key.

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[PLO]

Herro's film from high school is a complete 180 of what he played like in college. In calipari's system a majority of his looks came off of ball screens, not in a one on one iso from the top of the key.

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The question you should be asking yourself: why do you think that is?

[Mik317]

Herro's film from high school is a complete 180 of what he played like in college. In calipari's system a majority of his looks came off of ball screens, not in a one on one iso from the top of the key.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The question you should be asking yourself: why do you think that is?

i mean there is precedent of Calipari limiting his guys full toolset with Towns, Booker, and even AD.

[PLO]

Herro's film from high school is a complete 180 of what he played like in college. In calipari's system a majority of his looks came off of ball screens, not in a one on one iso from the top of the key.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The question you should be asking yourself: why do you think that is?

i mean there is precedent of Calipari limiting his guys full toolset with Towns, Booker, and even AD.

The AD one is particularly hard to backup given after Christmas that season we got to see "AD the generational prospect". The other two you mention just elicit #eyerolls from me.

Because we've also seen, under Calipari and just last season, SGA come from being a forgotten and lowly 4 star reserve player to being a point guard with almost all the tools outside of shooting - if you can show you have it Calipari will give you the keys to drive the car. I thought the Roy Williams argument in season about Nas Little was bad enough, this one regarding Herro is miles worse and is the highest level of straw-grasping possible.

[nolang1]

Herro's film from high school is a complete 180 of what he played like in college. In calipari's system a majority of his looks came off of ball screens, not in a one on one iso from the top of the key.

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Yes, when you're playing against medium-sized high schools in Wisconsin and are the tallest player on the court and the only one who's going to play Division I basketball, you can score pretty much however you'd like.

[karkinos]

Herro's film from high school is a complete 180 of what he played like in college. In calipari's system a majority of his looks came off of ball screens, not in a one on one iso from the top of the key.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The question you should be asking yourself: why do you think that is?

i'm not really sure where you're trying to go with this post

what i was trying to convey to the post above is that herro is clearly capable of being efficient in a system that focuses on getting him looks through screens, which is why i brought up rip hamilton.
i think people who think he's going to score like he did in high school at the nba level are misguided.
i also think his coachability factor is extremely underrated and this past season at kentucky clearly shows he can be a very good system player.
he followed the game plan to the T and often passed up open 3s to get the ball down to PJ in the low block because that was the game plan. they always worked with the priority of inside first, out second.

[PLO]

Herro's film from high school is a complete 180 of what he played like in college. In calipari's system a majority of his looks came off of ball screens, not in a one on one iso from the top of the key.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The question you should be asking yourself: why do you think that is?

i'm not really sure where you're trying to go with this post

what i was trying to convey to the post above is that herro is clearly capable of being efficient in a system that focuses on getting him looks through screens, which is why i brought up rip hamilton.
i think people who think he's going to score like he did in high school at the nba level are misguided.
i also think his coachability factor is extremely underrated and this past season at kentucky clearly shows he can be a very good system player.
he followed the game plan to the T and often passed up open 3s to get the ball down to PJ in the low block because that was the game plan. they always worked with the priority of inside first, out second.

See the Nolang's post just above yours for an answer to the bolded.

"Coachability factor" is just another contortion you pro-Herro people are throwing yourselves into to paper over the fact he's going to be outmatched physically to a huge extent in the NBA.

[Mik317]

The question you should be asking yourself: why do you think that is?

i mean there is precedent of Calipari limiting his guys full toolset with Towns, Booker, and even AD.

The AD one is particularly hard to backup given after Christmas that season we got to see "AD the generational prospect". The other two you mention just elicit #eyerolls from me.

Because we've also seen, under Calipari and just last season, SGA come from being a forgotten and lowly 4 star reserve player to being a point guard with almost all the tools outside of shooting - if you can show you have it Calipari will give you the keys to drive the car. I thought the Roy Williams argument in season about Nas Little was bad enough, this one regarding Herro is miles worse and is the highest level of straw-grasping possible.

I didn't say it was a bad thing. Towns was soft as ****, so forcing his ass down low and to be the rim protector was the best for his development. Booker definitely learned from playing off ball. His methods are generally geared towards having guys work on specific things rather than just out talenting everyone AAU style. Herro could have easily chucked his life away but with other talented guys, he focused on off ball and defense it seems. That shows better than chucking to the tune of 38% lol. Cal is a car salesmen who does his best to showcase his guys and I think the way he used Herro will benefit him long term.

[No-Man]

Regardless of what Cal run for Herro, or what he did wrong with other prospects, Herro was awesome as a freshman and projects to be really good, he was better than Coby White who everybody loves for example, obviously dusted scrubs like NAW

[pad300]

McDowell-White wasn't a top100 prospect

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/04/20/william-mcdowell-white-commits-fresno-state-five-star

Saw a list on twitter. I think Zagars and Eboua are going back. But all the notable guys are staying in. My understanding is all the Australian's (McDowell-White, Froling, Maker, Noi) are all staying in as well.

Could you post a link to said list please...

Sorry man, I can't find it. If I do, I'll post it here.

Found the international withdrawals:

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-international-withdrawals

Of those still in, anyone know anything about a) David Okeke and b) Matas Jogela?

[No-Man]

Jogela is bad, like a lithuanian version of Zach LaVine, but worse

Okeke hasn't played for a year due to a heart condition

[doordoor123]

Kentucky was a borderline top 10 team in a weak year for college basketball as a whole. I understand that sometimes the whole isn't quite as good as the sum of its parts, but I'm having a hard time seeing how the 3rd-best player on a college team that wasn't some dominant juggernaut is supposed to be a difference-maker in the NBA.

better Kentucky class than '18 IMO.

Herro/PJ/Keldon

Knox/Shai/Vanderbilt

and I liked SGA/Vanderbilt

How would you rank the six players as prospects heading into the draft?

1. Shai
2. Washington
3. Knox
4. Vanderbilt
5. Herro
6. Keldon

[No-Man]

How would you rank the six players as prospects heading into the draft?

SGA
Herro
Washington

Knox
Vanderbilt

Diallo
Johnson

probably should have had Knox below Vanderbilt in retrospect

[Ruzious]

Gotta lock this - it's past the page limit. Will set up a part 2 thread. Continued at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1850865