2019 Draft Class

[doordoor123]

Big fan of Ebuka Izundu, Center from Miami. He moves really well, athletic, good shot blocker, good offensive rebounder, huge hands.

[CP War Hawks]

I'm conflicted with RJ. He doesn't quite look the part to me, he moves a bit funny, I don't find him to be super fluid, there's no prevailing athleticism nor skill-set qualities that set him apart, but you can't knock the production. I guess it's just the bully ball nature to his game that makes me hesitate.

He's not as productive, but Reddish just looks so much more of a talented and natural basketball player, and while he's not as explosive, he looks a lot smoother on the ball, imo. Obviously the trade off is he's not nearly as aggressive driving to the hoop.

Yeah, I mean I liken him to an incredibly more talented version of Bazemore just off first impression. Some Dukies and Northerners may scold me, but it's what I see in a very small sample tho.

If the Hawks don't get pick 1, I'd be happy to pick him to pair with Trae.

[No-Man]

not a huge fan of either, but what makes Grimes better than Alexander-Walker?

I think Culver is better than both, probably Jarrett and Garland are the only Guards that are lotto-worthy at this point

Morant is too risky imo, that program has a history of meh talent putting up superb numbers on offense, and Ja's shooting even though by the numbers is solid to good, worries me, form is hard to translate, also the guy is ball-centered, you can see it on defense where he is hideous kinda (other than at generating events, which has some value for a Guard though), but applies to offense too

Tre Jones' ceiling just isn't there to me, and I love Carsen Edwards but he is 6'0 and has major flaws moving the ball/trusting teammates, I like Dotson but I highly doubt he declares, Luguentz Dort is more of a tank but I guess he can fit in the discussion?

I think I am comfortable saying that these guys are my current top8 and that the next guy/last cut was Jarrett Culver, that's about it;

tier I

Zion Williamson

tier II

RJ Barrett
Nassir Little

tier III

Cameron Reddish
Kevin Porter Jr.
Darius Garland
Keldon Johnson
De'Andre Hunter

Reddish, Porter and Garland can/might jump a tier

[big-shot-ROB]

not a huge fan of either, but what makes Grimes better than Alexander-Walker?

I think Culver is better than both, probably Jarrett and Garland are the only Guards that are lotto-worthy at this point

Morant is too risky imo, that program has a history of meh talent putting up superb numbers on offense, and Ja's shooting even though by the numbers is solid to good, worries me, form is hard to translate, also the guy is ball-centered, you can see it on defense where he is hideous kinda (other than at generating events, which has some value for a Guard though), but applies to offense too

Tre Jones' ceiling just isn't there to me, and I love Carsen Edwards but he is 6'0 and has major flaws moving the ball/trusting teammates, I like Dotson but I highly doubt he declares, Luguentz Dort is more of a tank but I guess he can fit in the discussion?

I think I am comfortable saying that these guys are my current top8 and that the next guy/last cut was Jarrett Culver, that's about it;

tier I

Zion Williamson

tier II

RJ Barrett
Nassir Little

tier III

Cameron Reddish
Kevin Porter Jr.
Darius Garland
Keldon Johnson
De'Andre Hunter

Reddish, Porter and Garland can/might jump a tier

Yeah, Garland is top-5 for me if we are talking offensive talent. Very impressed every time I've seen him play.

Problem with Little and Grimes was I don't know how much the programs they picked are affecting their stock

[No-Man]

I don't care much about public perception/stock, unless I can't use that to get a player that drops at a bargain price or I can use it as intel to help me maneuver through the Draft

I'd agree though, Kansas was a bad choice for Grimes, he should have gone to Michigan

[doordoor123]

not a huge fan of either, but what makes Grimes better than Alexander-Walker?

I think Culver is better than both, probably Jarrett and Garland are the only Guards that are lotto-worthy at this point

Morant is too risky imo, that program has a history of meh talent putting up superb numbers on offense, and Ja's shooting even though by the numbers is solid to good, worries me, form is hard to translate, also the guy is ball-centered, you can see it on defense where he is hideous kinda (other than at generating events, which has some value for a Guard though), but applies to offense too

Tre Jones' ceiling just isn't there to me, and I love Carsen Edwards but he is 6'0 and has major flaws moving the ball/trusting teammates, I like Dotson but I highly doubt he declares, Luguentz Dort is more of a tank but I guess he can fit in the discussion?

I think I am comfortable saying that these guys are my current top8 and that the next guy/last cut was Jarrett Culver, that's about it;

tier I

Zion Williamson

tier II

RJ Barrett
Nassir Little

tier III

Cameron Reddish
Kevin Porter Jr.
Darius Garland
Keldon Johnson
De'Andre Hunter

Reddish, Porter and Garland can/might jump a tier

I feel almost exactly the same as this entire comment. This class isn’t looking too strong now that the smoke has cleared. Thinking there might be some guys at smaller programs that might get and look and be bumped up. There are usually guys that most people don’t look at yet, like Forrest from Florida State. Like Huerter last year, or Pascal Siakam or even KCP.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

I think Reid has the potential to be one of the worsts busts of this class. He's not much of a defender so if he doesn't play great offensively he will almost be unplayable. Probably won't stop teams from drafting him high though but right now I'm hoping and think that the Heat will stay away from him.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I think Reid has the potential to be one of the worsts busts of this class. He's not much of a defender so if he doesn't play great offensively he will almost be unplayable. Probably won't stop teams from drafting him high though but right now I'm hoping and think that the Heat will stay away from him.

He's a + three point shooter with shooting versatility, self-creation, and has actually been good positionally on defense - he's singlehandedly stopped plays on defense with his positioning multiple times this year. The rebounding % is a bit concerning, but he actually tries to put a body on guys. I don't see "worst bust" at all - if anything, his skill set is pretty safe.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

I think Reid has the potential to be one of the worsts busts of this class. He's not much of a defender so if he doesn't play great offensively he will almost be unplayable. Probably won't stop teams from drafting him high though but right now I'm hoping and think that the Heat will stay away from him.

He's a + three point shooter with shooting versatility, self-creation, and has actually been good positionally on defense - he's singlehandedly stopped plays on defense with his positioning multiple times this year. The rebounding % is a bit concerning, but he actually tries to put a body on guys. I don't see "worst bust" at all - if anything, his skill set is pretty safe.

I'm not saying that he's likely to become a bust but saying that if he does become a bust, he'd likely be one of the worst ones in the class. I'm not convinced that an unathletic 6-10 player with short arms like Reid will be able to defend against 7-footers in the NBA. If he's going to be defending PFs in the NBA I might feel better about his defensive potential.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I think Reid has the potential to be one of the worsts busts of this class. He's not much of a defender so if he doesn't play great offensively he will almost be unplayable. Probably won't stop teams from drafting him high though but right now I'm hoping and think that the Heat will stay away from him.

He's a + three point shooter with shooting versatility, self-creation, and has actually been good positionally on defense - he's singlehandedly stopped plays on defense with his positioning multiple times this year. The rebounding % is a bit concerning, but he actually tries to put a body on guys. I don't see "worst bust" at all - if anything, his skill set is pretty safe.

I'm not saying that he's likely to become a bust but saying that if he does become a bust, he'd likely be one of the worst ones in the class. I'm not convinced that an unathletic 6-10 player with short arms like Reid will be able to defend against 7-footers in the NBA. If he's going to be defending PFs in the NBA I might feel better about his defensive potential.

He has +3 wingspan (that's not short armed) and has shown good defensive instincts. His wingspan + reach are roughly 2 inches below average, but that's where the instincts come in. You don't need to be a good athlete to be a good defender, or simply not a bad one.

Curious what your thoughts are on Jontay Porter's measurements and position given he had just a +.75 wingspan, .75 inches less than Reids, and a reach that is 1 inch bigger than Reid's (both below average for a C). What about Konate who, although is a much better athlete than Reid, in addition to having a short wingspan, he chases blocks instead of rotating properly. Stronger and longer measurements than Wagner, too.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

He's a + three point shooter with shooting versatility, self-creation, and has actually been good positionally on defense - he's singlehandedly stopped plays on defense with his positioning multiple times this year. The rebounding % is a bit concerning, but he actually tries to put a body on guys. I don't see "worst bust" at all - if anything, his skill set is pretty safe.

I'm not saying that he's likely to become a bust but saying that if he does become a bust, he'd likely be one of the worst ones in the class. I'm not convinced that an unathletic 6-10 player with short arms like Reid will be able to defend against 7-footers in the NBA. If he's going to be defending PFs in the NBA I might feel better about his defensive potential.

He has +3 wingspan (that's not short armed) and has shown good defensive instincts. His wingspan + reach are roughly 2 inches below average, but that's where the instincts come in. You don't need to be a good athlete to be a good defender, or simply not a bad one.

Curious what your thoughts are on Jontay Porter's measurements and position given he had just a +.75 wingspan, .75 inches less than Reids, and a reach that is 1 inch bigger than Reid's (both below average for a C). What about Konate who, although is a much better athlete than Reid, in addition to having a short wingspan, he chases blocks instead of rotating properly. Stronger and longer measurements than Wagner, too.

Anything less than +4(for centers) is short-armed to me. Not many elite rim-protectors in the NBA are below +4. He's also 6-10 and defensive stats say he's a terrible defender. Who is he even comparable defensively to in the NBA? Porter is taller than Reid and can protect the rim. I trust Konate more than Reid with defending NBA level players. I don't know a single unathletic, 6-10 player with short arms who's an average or better defender. Give me Bassey or Gafford over Reid for defense.

[No-Man]

Porter can't absolutely protect the rim lol, what are you even talking about?

Bassey might be better on size alone, but he is so inconsistent and passive that I don't really care for him, plays with none physicality

[NBA Fan 1234]

I'm not saying that he's likely to become a bust but saying that if he does become a bust, he'd likely be one of the worst ones in the class. I'm not convinced that an unathletic 6-10 player with short arms like Reid will be able to defend against 7-footers in the NBA. If he's going to be defending PFs in the NBA I might feel better about his defensive potential.

He has +3 wingspan (that's not short armed) and has shown good defensive instincts. His wingspan + reach are roughly 2 inches below average, but that's where the instincts come in. You don't need to be a good athlete to be a good defender, or simply not a bad one.

Curious what your thoughts are on Jontay Porter's measurements and position given he had just a +.75 wingspan, .75 inches less than Reids, and a reach that is 1 inch bigger than Reid's (both below average for a C). What about Konate who, although is a much better athlete than Reid, in addition to having a short wingspan, he chases blocks instead of rotating properly. Stronger and longer measurements than Wagner, too.

Anything less than +4(for centers) is short-armed to me. Not many elite rim-protectors in the NBA are below +4. He's also 6-10 and defensive stats say he's a terrible defender. Who is he even comparable defensively to in the NBA? Porter is taller than Reid and can protect the rim. I trust Konate more than Reid with defending NBA level players. I don't know a single unathletic, 6-10 player with short arms who's an average or better defender. Give me Bassey or Gafford over Reid for defense.

What defensive stats say he's a terrible defender? The block and steal percentage from a 4 game sample size? Bassey has limited feel for the game, has limited mobility, and plays soft; Gafford has major IQ concerns on both ends despite being uber athletic. Gafford has a less than +4 wingspan, by the way, with a way lower IQ, and the same height-wingspan difference that Reid has *as of Reid's last measurements.* Also, this idea that it has to be a + ____ is irrelevant if the person being compared to has a longer wingspan --> talking mainly about Konate's + ~5 wingspan.

He's shown so far this year to be have a good defensive IQ / rotation, which is HUGE for bigs. I don't know why you're underselling that because he has limited athleticism or doesn't have your bizarre qualification of +4 wingspan, which, again, is meaningless if you're an undersized C and completely arbitrary.

Porter measured in at 6'11.5 with sneakers, 7'0.25 wingspan, and 9'1 standing reach. Reid has been last measured at 6'10 in sneakers, 7'1 wingspan, and 9' standing reach *could have grown or gotten longer since last measured*. Reid has the better + wingspan and a worse reach by 1 inch. Reach is more important for bigs, I've been saying this for a while, but let's not act like he's much longer than Reid. Reid is also the better athlete, so if you want to make an argument from that angle, nope.

General question, would anyone rather have a 6'8 C with a 7' wingspan or a 6'11 C with a 7'1 or 7'2 wingspan (assuming same standing reach which is more important for rim protection anyway)?

Also, Nurkic has proven to be a good defender for Portland in their scheme and he's a **** athlete without your arbitrary +4 wingspan. Baynes is another one. Does having athleticism help make up for a wingspan? Absolutely. Does it raise a projected ceiling for defense? Absolutely. Is it required to be a good defender? Absolutely not.

[No-Man]

If your 6'8 C has perimeter skills and can move, which is more likely than with a 6'11 guy, it ain't really a debate, unless the 6'11 dude is pretty special

Nurkic though is a massive human, with trunk legs and a big frame, easily 260 in shape, Reid was measured last at 240 but he was doughy, if he has actually lost weight, his real strength size, might be 220-230, he can add up with good weight, but needs to put the work there

[NBA Fan 1234]

If your 6'8 C has perimeter skills and can move, which is more likely than with a 6'11 guy, it ain't really a debate, unless the 6'11 dude is pretty special

Nurkic though is a massive human, with trunk legs and a big frame, easily 260 in shape, Reid was measured last at 240 but he was doughy, if he has actually lost weight, his real strength size, might be 220-230, he can add up with good weight, but needs to put the work there

My biggest concern with Reid is he plays soft. There's little push back on post ups for someone his size. Maybe that is because he's lost some weight, but if he has, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he ends up adding it back as muscle - he has a big frame.



@Feel_the_Heat15, I don't think Reid is far from bustable. He absolutely has his warts, but he's a skilled offensive player who has shown the ability to be in the right spot on defense. That shouldn't be overlooked just because he's not athletic or not the arbitrary +4 wingspan that you want.

[Marcus]

RJ's lack of acceleration AND shiftiness in the halfcourt is a huge red flag. He did have a pullup that I liked.

Cam with the combination of shooting + finishing people want to see.

Zion had a possession in the first where he jump stopped (killing his momentum) right into 2 defenders and got blocked by McDaniels. Other than that, he got to the rim and finished just fine. Some with sheer strength and some with body control. Knocked down a standstill 3. Vision + shiftiness as a ball handler looks really good.

I was gonna write something up about the game but you pretty much captured it in a nutshell. So you got this one my friend. I'll take my comments to the individual threads.

[Feel_the_Heat15]

Porter can't absolutely protect the rim lol, what are you even talking about?

Bassey might be better on size alone, but he is so inconsistent and passive that I don't really care for him, plays with none physicality

Porter can absolutely protect the rim, what are you talking about? He blocked 57 shots in 807 minutes his freshman year. He's also far from being in peak physical condition so he could improve even further there. I'm not saying he's Anthony Davis but he's not Markkanen either.

If your 6'8 C has perimeter skills and can move, which is more likely than with a 6'11 guy, it ain't really a debate, unless the 6'11 dude is pretty special

Nurkic though is a massive human, with trunk legs and a big frame, easily 260 in shape, Reid was measured last at 240 but he was doughy, if he has actually lost weight, his real strength size, might be 220-230, he can add up with good weight, but needs to put the work there

My biggest concern with Reid is he plays soft. There's little push back on post ups for someone his size. Maybe that is because he's lost some weight, but if he has, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he ends up adding it back as muscle - he has a big frame.



@Feel_the_Heat15, I don't think Reid is far from bustable. He absolutely has his warts, but he's a skilled offensive player who has shown the ability to be in the right spot on defense. That shouldn't be overlooked just because he's not athletic or not the arbitrary +4 wingspan that you want.

+4 wingspan is far from arbitrary when a player doesn't have any decent physical tools defensively for the center position. I'm not potentially wasting a mid-lottery pick on a center who will more than likely play -defense. You're overrating his defensive instincts. Unless Reid plays so well that I have to ignore his potential defensive weaknesses, he's not getting my pick.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I’m not overrating his defensive instincts at all, but ok. It’s funny how you’re “not willing” to “waste” a lotto pick on a talented offensive big with good defensive instincts, but appear to be willing to roll the dice with another big with mobility problems and lacking in skills, and another big with major IQ problems.

The +4 is completely arbitrary lol. Absolutely is.

This is pointless. I’m out, take care.

[doordoor123]

I want to like Shamorie Ponds so much, but I can’t see him ever being able to defend in the NBA. At best he’s a third-string point guard for his career. Unless he’s putting up 20-30 points a game he’s going to have a hard time getting minutes.

[No-Man]

it takes no time watching Jontay to realize that he isn't going to be a deterrent at the rim at the next level, he put up nice %BLK and blocks per 100/40 numbers, but the guy can't move back and forth or jump, is smart and has good positioning, so he might be able to challenge randoms up there, but against the mid-upper echelon of finishers he is going to get murdered

he would have to evolve as an athlete a ton by getting in better shape, which is unlikely considering his recent injury, I mean I love him and all but a rim-protector he is not