Passing Ability: Lonzo Ball vs Ricky Rubio

[Chris76]

Kris Dunn's presence confirms the rumors for me, the fact that Kriss Dunn is horrible and no one wants Rubio keeps Rubio with a starting job with the Wolves. The Wolves should sign Patty Mills if they have any money. Get someone that can shoot with all of the iso scorers they have.

Come back once you have watched at least one Timberwolves game.

I've watched plenty, enough to know that Rubio is an assist hunter just like TJ McConnell. Both of them are limited when it comes to making baskets so they'll avoid great wide open scoring opportunities in favor of ATTEMPTING an assist. There is no stat for that, when there should be. There is no stat for when a player turns down a great chance to attempt to score for just a chance to attempt an assist. That ruins the offense, and creates losing teams. The Wolves are losers and the Sixers are losers...

Unfortunately, TJ's size is a liability so he avoids some open shots. Ball's size and athleticism should be an advantage. Also, Ball keeps the ball moving which makes everyone participate more. Ball and Simmons could be an elite combination that hunts for assists to improve shooting efficiency in a good way.

Anyway, the wolves and Sixers are young teams that have been losing, but both could change that very quickly with a few smart moves. Both have promising players that could make huge leaps very soon, with good health. In today's game, the nba is so star oriented, if you don't have 3 stars or more, you look weak and lost. Furthermore, a superstar is really needed and it takes a long time to get the secondary stars or role players that fit. For example, Warriors have 2 superstars in Durant + Curry, besides the elite shooting their defense has been remarkable. Who would of thought Durant would be a force as a defensive power forward.

[Foye]

Kris Dunn's presence confirms the rumors for me, the fact that Kriss Dunn is horrible and no one wants Rubio keeps Rubio with a starting job with the Wolves. The Wolves should sign Patty Mills if they have any money. Get someone that can shoot with all of the iso scorers they have.

Come back once you have watched at least one Timberwolves game.

I've watched plenty, enough to know that Rubio is an assist hunter just like TJ McConnell. Both of them are limited when it comes to making baskets so they'll avoid great wide open scoring opportunities in favor of ATTEMPTING an assist. There is no stat for that, when there should be. There is no stat for when a player turns down a great chance to attempt to score for just a chance to attempt an assist. That ruins the offense, and creates losing teams. The Wolves are losers and the Sixers are losers...

Here are some facts:

Timberwolves perform better with Rubio on the floor than without him.

Timberwolves scored 105.6 ppg which is the same as the San Antonio Spurs.

Timberwolves also scored those 105.6 ppg while running a fairly low pace at below 100 possessions (marginally higher than San Antonio).

It is pretty clear that the Timberwolves offense despite the bad 3-pt shooting (I guess thats the only thing you can blame Rubio for and he is improved in that category) is above average if you consider the pace.

I have no idea how anyone could even try to explain the Timberwolves problems with offensive execution and passing on open shots...because the statistics back up pretty clearly that the Wolves are attempting good shots most of the time.

Conclusion: The Timberwolves offense is definitely above league average while being run from the incapable Rubio. Its the dreadful defense that creates losing teams. And Rubio is surely the best Timberwolves player on that end of the pitch.

I guess you can blame Rubio for not showing up early in the season (probably due to the death of his mother) but its ridiculous to say he cant run a good offense.

[SelfishPlayer]

Come back once you have watched at least one Timberwolves game.

I've watched plenty, enough to know that Rubio is an assist hunter just like TJ McConnell. Both of them are limited when it comes to making baskets so they'll avoid great wide open scoring opportunities in favor of ATTEMPTING an assist. There is no stat for that, when there should be. There is no stat for when a player turns down a great chance to attempt to score for just a chance to attempt an assist. That ruins the offense, and creates losing teams. The Wolves are losers and the Sixers are losers...

Here are some facts:

Timberwolves perform better with Rubio on the floor than without him.

Timberwolves scored 105.6 ppg which is the same as the San Antonio Spurs.

Timberwolves also scored those 105.6 ppg while running a fairly low pace at below 100 possessions (marginally higher than San Antonio).

It is pretty clear that the Timberwolves offense despite the bad 3-pt shooting (I guess thats the only thing you can blame Rubio for and he is improved in that category) is above average if you consider the pace.

I have no idea how anyone could even try to explain the Timberwolves problems with offensive execution and passing on open shots...because the statistics back up pretty clearly that the Wolves are attempting good shots most of the time.

Conclusion: The Timberwolves offense is definitely above league average while being run from the incapable Rubio. Its the dreadful defense that creates losing teams. And Rubio is surely the best Timberwolves player on that end of the pitch.

I guess you can blame Rubio for not showing up early in the season (probably due to the death of his mother) but its ridiculous to say he cant run a good offense.

What's the Wolves record with Rubio as a starter?

[Foye]

I've watched plenty, enough to know that Rubio is an assist hunter just like TJ McConnell. Both of them are limited when it comes to making baskets so they'll avoid great wide open scoring opportunities in favor of ATTEMPTING an assist. There is no stat for that, when there should be. There is no stat for when a player turns down a great chance to attempt to score for just a chance to attempt an assist. That ruins the offense, and creates losing teams. The Wolves are losers and the Sixers are losers...

Here are some facts:

Timberwolves perform better with Rubio on the floor than without him.

Timberwolves scored 105.6 ppg which is the same as the San Antonio Spurs.

Timberwolves also scored those 105.6 ppg while running a fairly low pace at below 100 possessions (marginally higher than San Antonio).

It is pretty clear that the Timberwolves offense despite the bad 3-pt shooting (I guess thats the only thing you can blame Rubio for and he is improved in that category) is above average if you consider the pace.

I have no idea how anyone could even try to explain the Timberwolves problems with offensive execution and passing on open shots...because the statistics back up pretty clearly that the Wolves are attempting good shots most of the time.

Conclusion: The Timberwolves offense is definitely above league average while being run from the incapable Rubio. Its the dreadful defense that creates losing teams. And Rubio is surely the best Timberwolves player on that end of the pitch.

I guess you can blame Rubio for not showing up early in the season (probably due to the death of his mother) but its ridiculous to say he cant run a good offense.

What's the Wolves record with Rubio as a starter?

What is your point? You were trying to tell me the Timberwolves offense sucks because Rubio does not attempt shots. This has been proven crap and now you are desperate to find new arguments? Rubio has basically been on a rebuilding team his entire nba career. No wonder his record isnt pretty.

Again, Timberwolves offense is more than fine already. Add in more 3 pt shooting and scoring options from the bench and we are good.
The problem is defense...where they have improved a bit last season but not enough progress to turn around the ship.

[SelfishPlayer]

Here are some facts:

Timberwolves perform better with Rubio on the floor than without him.

Timberwolves scored 105.6 ppg which is the same as the San Antonio Spurs.

Timberwolves also scored those 105.6 ppg while running a fairly low pace at below 100 possessions (marginally higher than San Antonio).

It is pretty clear that the Timberwolves offense despite the bad 3-pt shooting (I guess thats the only thing you can blame Rubio for and he is improved in that category) is above average if you consider the pace.

I have no idea how anyone could even try to explain the Timberwolves problems with offensive execution and passing on open shots...because the statistics back up pretty clearly that the Wolves are attempting good shots most of the time.

Conclusion: The Timberwolves offense is definitely above league average while being run from the incapable Rubio. Its the dreadful defense that creates losing teams. And Rubio is surely the best Timberwolves player on that end of the pitch.

I guess you can blame Rubio for not showing up early in the season (probably due to the death of his mother) but its ridiculous to say he cant run a good offense.

What's the Wolves record with Rubio as a starter?

What is your point? You were trying to tell me the Timberwolves offense sucks because Rubio does not attempt shots. This has been proven crap and now you are desperate to find new arguments? Rubio has basically been on a rebuilding team his entire nba career. No wonder his record isnt pretty.

Again, Timberwolves offense is more than fine already. Add in more 3 pt shooting and scoring options from the bench and we are good.
The problem is defense...where they have improved a bit last season but not enough progress to turn around the ship.

Not a new argument, reread my posts...

[UcanUwill]

What's the Wolves record with Rubio as a starter?

If I am not mistaken, these are the numbers.

Rubio as a starter : 136-197 / (.408).

Timberwolves without Rubio starting : 37-106/ (.258)

Timberwolves overall record 173-303 / (.363)

So basically, with Rubio starting - 33.4 win team. With Rubio out - 21.1 win team. Big difference.

[SelfishPlayer]

What's the Wolves record with Rubio as a starter?

If I am not mistaken, these are the numbers.

Rubio as a starter : 136-197 / (.408).

Timberwolves without Rubio starting : 37-106/ (.258)

Timberwolves overall record 173-303 / (.363)

So basically, with Rubio starting - 33.4 win team. With Rubio out - 21.1 win team. Big difference.

Lottery team...

[UcanUwill]

What's the Wolves record with Rubio as a starter?

If I am not mistaken, these are the numbers.

Rubio as a starter : 136-197 / (.408).

Timberwolves without Rubio starting : 37-106/ (.258)

Timberwolves overall record 173-303 / (.363)

So basically, with Rubio starting - 33.4 win team. With Rubio out - 21.1 win team. Big difference.

Lottery team...

But with him out they are Number 1 pick team. He improves the team by 12 wins a year, and thats not good enough for you? By your post, you would think they would maybe even improve without Rubio, but all the numbers show how much worse that team gets when Rubio is out.

[SelfishPlayer]

If I am not mistaken, these are the numbers.

Rubio as a starter : 136-197 / (.408).

Timberwolves without Rubio starting : 37-106/ (.258)

Timberwolves overall record 173-303 / (.363)

So basically, with Rubio starting - 33.4 win team. With Rubio out - 21.1 win team. Big difference.

Lottery team...

But with him out they are Number 1 pick team. He improves the team by 12 wins a year, and thats not good enough for you? By your post, you would think they would maybe even improve without Rubio, but all the numbers show how much worse that team gets when Rubio is out.

He's too bad to get them to the playoffs and just good enough to lower their number of lottery balls. The worst kind of veteran player to have IMO.

[UcanUwill]

Lottery team...

But with him out they are Number 1 pick team. He improves the team by 12 wins a year, and thats not good enough for you? By your post, you would think they would maybe even improve without Rubio, but all the numbers show how much worse that team gets when Rubio is out.

He's too bad to get them to the playoffs and just good enough to lower their number of lottery balls. The worst kind of veteran player to have IMO.

ROFL what? You are a ridiculous man. So he alone is responsible for their record, you single him out, not at all other 14 guys on the roster? Now according to you he is bad for the team... because hes... good? Man, I swear between this gem and your countless claims like ''D league is the second best basketball league in the world'', I am amazed no one has you in their sigs to show off your ''genius''.

[azcatz11]

But with him out they are Number 1 pick team. He improves the team by 12 wins a year, and thats not good enough for you? By your post, you would think they would maybe even improve without Rubio, but all the numbers show how much worse that team gets when Rubio is out.

He's too bad to get them to the playoffs and just good enough to lower their number of lottery balls. The worst kind of veteran player to have IMO.

ROFL what? You are a ridiculous man. So he alone is responsible for their record, you single him out, not at all other 14 guys on the roster? Now according to you he is bad for the team... because hes... good? Man, I swear between this gem and your countless claims like ''D league is the second best basketball league in the world'', I am amazed no one has you in their sigs to show off your ''genius''.

You will never win with a PG as poor as Rubio who cannot shoot and cannot finish at the rim. His game would have been great 20 years ago but not anymore. I actually can't think of a player who is worse at finishing in the entire league than Rubio.

[UcanUwill]

You will never win with a PG as poor as Rubio who cannot shoot and cannot finish at the rim. His game would have been great 20 years ago but not anymore. I actually can't think of a player who is worse at finishing in the entire league than Rubio.

I think you can win with any player who is as good the defender as Rubio. I don't think one player can completely doom the team from ''winning''.

[SelfishPlayer]

But with him out they are Number 1 pick team. He improves the team by 12 wins a year, and thats not good enough for you? By your post, you would think they would maybe even improve without Rubio, but all the numbers show how much worse that team gets when Rubio is out.

He's too bad to get them to the playoffs and just good enough to lower their number of lottery balls. The worst kind of veteran player to have IMO.

ROFL what? You are a ridiculous man. So he alone is responsible for their record, you single him out, not at all other 14 guys on the roster? Now according to you he is bad for the team... because hes... good? Man, I swear between this gem and your countless claims like ''D league is the second best basketball league in the world'', I am amazed no one has you in their sigs to show off your ''genius''.

You've already detailed that he is a losing veteran player. He can't get a team to .500 that has KAT, Wiggins, and LaVine. That sounds about right.... If they lose with him they gain nothing. They are better off without him, just insert Dunn and maybe just maybe something positive happens. It is already written in stone that Rubio is a loser. He's in the prime of his career and is still a complete non scoring threat. Nothing more to see from him...

[azcatz11]

You will never win with a PG as poor as Rubio who cannot shoot and cannot finish at the rim. His game would have been great 20 years ago but not anymore. I actually can't think of a player who is worse at finishing in the entire league than Rubio.

I think you can win with any player who is as good the defender as Rubio. I don't think one player can completely doom the team from ''winning''.

I do, if your primary ball handler is not a scoring threat. Do you have his numbers as far as going against the elite scoring PG's (Curry, Dame, etc.?) I sincerely doubt he's actually shutting those guys down.

It's quite amazing how poor he is around the rim when he is such an elite passer!

[UcanUwill]

You've already detailed that he is a losing veteran player. He can't get a team to .500 that has KAT, Wiggins, and LaVine. That sounds about right.... If they lose with him they gain nothing. They are better off without him, just insert Dunn and maybe just maybe something positive happens. It is already written in stone that Rubio is a loser. He's in the prime of his career and is still a complete non scoring threat. Nothing more to see from him...

We derailed this thread far enough. But we established that wolves are in fact not better without him, they are far worse. We have 106 game sample size. Again why you singling out Rubio, your logic makes no sense.

[UcanUwill]

I do, if your primary ball handler is not a scoring threat. Do you have his numbers as far as going against the elite scoring PG's (Curry, Dame, etc.?) I sincerely doubt he's actually shutting those guys down.

It's quite amazing how poor he is around the rim when he is such an elite passer!

Yeah, his finishing ability is very disappointing. Lonzo seems like a far better scorer but worse defender, which is a very good trade off, defense is not that crucial for a PG (altho Rubio has shut down stars in the past).

[SelfishPlayer]

Again why you singling out Rubio, your logic makes no sense.

What starter has been a Wolf longer than Rubio? Has there been a playoff team in the last 20 years that had a starting PG that struggles to score 10ppg and is not a threat from the 3 point line like Rubio?

[azcatz11]

I do, if your primary ball handler is not a scoring threat. Do you have his numbers as far as going against the elite scoring PG's (Curry, Dame, etc.?) I sincerely doubt he's actually shutting those guys down.

It's quite amazing how poor he is around the rim when he is such an elite passer!

Yeah, his finishing ability is very disappointing. Lonzo seems like a far better scorer but worse defender, which is a very good trade off, defense is not that crucial for a PG (altho Rubio has shut down stars in the past).

Ugh...Lonzo is destined to be a backup PG in this league. There is no way he will be able to score in the half court. He is also a below average athlete (poor lateral quickness.)

As I've said in many threads, if your biggest strength is your 'IQ' you are destined to be a mediocre player in this league.

[UcanUwill]

I do, if your primary ball handler is not a scoring threat. Do you have his numbers as far as going against the elite scoring PG's (Curry, Dame, etc.?) I sincerely doubt he's actually shutting those guys down.

It's quite amazing how poor he is around the rim when he is such an elite passer!

Yeah, his finishing ability is very disappointing. Lonzo seems like a far better scorer but worse defender, which is a very good trade off, defense is not that crucial for a PG (altho Rubio has shut down stars in the past).

Ugh...Lonzo is destined to be a backup PG in this league. There is no way he will be able to score in the half court. He is also a below average athlete (poor lateral quickness.)

As I've said in many threads, if your biggest strength is your 'IQ' you are destined to be a mediocre player in this league.

So, you are not a fan of Luka Doncic either? Yeah, I can totally accept your opinion. Who do you think will be the best player out of this draft?

[azcatz11]

Yeah, his finishing ability is very disappointing. Lonzo seems like a far better scorer but worse defender, which is a very good trade off, defense is not that crucial for a PG (altho Rubio has shut down stars in the past).

Ugh...Lonzo is destined to be a backup PG in this league. There is no way he will be able to score in the half court. He is also a below average athlete (poor lateral quickness.)

As I've said in many threads, if your biggest strength is your 'IQ' you are destined to be a mediocre player in this league.

So, you are not a fan of Luka Doncic either? Yeah, I can totally accept your opinion. Who do you think will be the best player out of this draft?

I've never seen him play and have no opinion of him other than the posts I've read about him. I'm just not a fan of PG's who are neither ultra athletic nor elite shooters. Lonzo has neither quality and being an elite passing PG in this league does not excite me.