All Things Luka Doncic

[Mirotic12]

Like I said, Real Madrid is definitely better than Spanish national team.

[Bob8]

Just want Doncic to give something consistently inside the arch. Lonzo Ball had far more critics even beyond the Lavar/shot form stuff despite having similar strengths/weaknesses and I wonder why?

Because he was playing against college players, who are much worse than high-level European competition.

We didn't watch Lonzo Ball excel against NBA and Euro guys in summer league just a few months ago?

This is for Luka and Dragic the most important game in their life and you're talking about summer league? Winning Eurobasket is in Europe as important as winning Nba title in the USA. Slovenia never won a medal, never!

[Bob8]

Doncic basically had his textbook game in terms of strengths.

Doncic elite as a PnR passer. Love his motor + physicality to battle grown men for boards. Overdribbles into bad 3s but will make more than his fair share behind the arch so not a big deal.

Just want Doncic to give something consistently inside the arch. Lonzo Ball had far more critics even beyond the Lavar/shot form stuff despite having similar strengths/weaknesses and I wonder why?

You just can't understand how important this game was. And what is Spain in Eurobasket. 10 consecutive times in semis. Normal game. No American kid has ever played game as important as this? And Doncic almost made triple double. In 15 years only 2 players in Eurobasket made it.

[Marcus]

Because he was playing against college players, who are much worse than high-level European competition.

We didn't watch Lonzo Ball excel against NBA and Euro guys in summer league just a few months ago?

This is for Luka and Dragic the most important game in their life and you're talking about summer league? Winning Eurobasket is in Europe as important as winning Nba title in the USA. Slovenia never won a medal, never!

the statement wasn't in regards to stage or importance of the game it was about the competition on the floor. Obviously a summer league crown doesn't hold a ton a weight comparatively but that's the point he was making.

[No-Man]

Doncic basically had his textbook game in terms of strengths.

Doncic elite as a PnR passer. Love his motor + physicality to battle grown men for boards. Overdribbles into bad 3s but will make more than his fair share behind the arch so not a big deal.

Just want Doncic to give something consistently inside the arch. Lonzo Ball had far more critics even beyond the Lavar/shot form stuff despite having similar strengths/weaknesses and I wonder why?

to be fair, Doncic ability to play with the defender on his back and put them in jail is sometihng Ball never shown, he doesnt go in much and doesnt get fouls and I get the concern there, but he is more flexible and much more advanced as a ballhandler than Lonzo

[baldur]

Like I said, Real Madrid is definitely better than Spanish national team.

I don't wanna assume your point is doncic played against a **** team?

[Mirotic12]

How athletic players are inherently more likely to pan out than those who are primarily relying on their skills? I don't think so.

If we're just talking about NBA players period from superstar to role guys to end of the bench players then I could get behind this.

But we're talking about Doncic as #1, comparing him to HOFers, and to other potential early lotto picks who will be expected to be franchise pieces.

I don't think there is any debate that toolsy athletic guys are more likely to pan out as cornerstones than super skilled guys with average physical metrics.

I think this is especially true for perimeter-oriented players. For bigmen, I think its less of a barrier. This is why I also think lack of speed/length at Euroleague level isn't as big a deal for European bigmen prospects.....motor, rebounding, strength, footwork will always translate.

You keep asserting things as facts, even if they are not.

1. NBA players are not taller and longer than EuroLeague players overall. It's just an incorrect myth and opinion that exists in USA. It's not factually accurate.

2. EuroLeague places an extreme importance on centers being mobile and athletic. Much more than the NBA does. In the NBA, you can still be a dinosaur like Marc Gasol. Not so much in EuroLeague. Almost every team has a center that can cover guards on perimeter, some have 2-3. The emphasis on athletic ability at center position in European club basketball these days is enormous.

In the freaking Greek League, almost every team has a guy with a well over 7 foot wingspan, great athletic ability and crazy hops playing at center. Because the game is played like Warriors on offense, by basically every single team.

The centers in EuroLeague are more athletic on average than the centers in NBA, and no difference in length. The centers in NBA are bigger - as in they are taller and heavier.

So the facts, not opinions:

1. NBA centers on average are taller. (for players overall, though they are not taller)

2. NBA centers on average are heavier.

3. EuroLeague centers and NBA centers have no differences in "length".

4. EuroLeague centers on average are more athletic than NBA centers (by quite a lot actually). This isn't the case for the other 4 positions, where NBA is probably more athletic on average. But in the center position, without any doubt whatsoever, EuroLeague is clearly more athletic.

Case in point, these European centers that you say can translate easily to the NBA athleticism....in reality, most of the European centers would be below average, or even well below average athletically at the center position in EuroLeague. NBA is easier for them, because NBA centers don't have to as athletic as EuroLeague centers have to be.

Ben Wallace type of center....that's common place in EuroLeague. You are asserting an argument that big men from Europe translate better to the NBA than guards, which may indeed be true, and seems to be true. However, the reasons you are giving for why that it is, are totally flawed.

[Bob8]

We didn't watch Lonzo Ball excel against NBA and Euro guys in summer league just a few months ago?

This is for Luka and Dragic the most important game in their life and you're talking about summer league? Winning Eurobasket is in Europe as important as winning Nba title in the USA. Slovenia never won a medal, never!

the statement wasn't in regards to stage or importance of the game it was about the competition on the floor. Obviously a summer league crown doesn't hold a ton a weight comparatively but that's the point he was making.

But that's exactly what's wrong in that conversation. You can't take basketball out of context. Doncic is able to have this numbers in the most important game of his life. 5/10 best prospects will never be able to that. Playing without pressure in summer league has nothing with competitive basketball.

[jolbin]

Can you please not compare Lonzo to Luka? Lonzo achieved nothing in lowly NCAA, while Luka is first/second fiddle of an Eurobasket finalist.. how is i even possible to compare them??

[reanimator]

2. EuroLeague places an extreme importance on centers being mobile and athletic. Much more than the NBA does. In the NBA, you can still be a dinosaur like Marc Gasol. Not so much in EuroLeague. Almost every team has a center that can cover guards on perimeter, some have 2-3. The emphasis on athletic ability at center position in European club basketball these days is enormous.

In the freaking Greek League, almost every team has a guy with a well over 7 foot wingspan, great athletic ability and crazy hops playing at center. Because the game is played like Warriors on offense, by basically every single team.

The centers in EuroLeague are more athletic on average than the centers in NBA, and no difference in length. The centers in NBA are bigger - as in they are taller and heavier.

4. EuroLeague centers on average are more athletic than NBA centers (by quite a lot actually). This isn't the case for the other 4 positions, where NBA is probably more athletic on average. But in the center position, without any doubt whatsoever, EuroLeague is clearly more athletic.

You are missing the point.

The Euroleague centers might be more athletic, mobile, etc but I was talking about what translates to the NBA.

Things like motor, a nose for the ball, footwork, strength are likely to translate from Euroleague to the NBA.

On the other hand, what you describe as the typical Euroleague center sounds a lot like former Oregon center Jordan Bell and he is a polarizing prospect given the uncertainty of his strengths translating.

[jolbin]

lonzo never even played against the same quality players as Luka is playing for the past two years

[Mirotic12]

We didn't watch Lonzo Ball excel against NBA and Euro guys in summer league just a few months ago?

This is for Luka and Dragic the most important game in their life and you're talking about summer league? Winning Eurobasket is in Europe as important as winning Nba title in the USA. Slovenia never won a medal, never!

the statement wasn't in regards to stage or importance of the game it was about the competition on the floor. Obviously a summer league crown doesn't hold a ton a weight comparatively but that's the point he was making.

It wasn't a good point though. NBA Summer League is lower level than any major European competition. The guys that are starring in summer league, are usually at best average players in some mid tier European league. Or playing in Australia, China, Latin America. Mixed in with some D-League stars, that typically are not good enough to make it in EuroLeague.

EuroBasket isn't as good as EuroLeague for sure. But to put it at same level as summer league just isn't right. Summer league, I would equate it to something like the Belgian league maybe, in terms of European basketball leagues. I don't know maybe it's better than that - say Adriatic League level possibly....but no way could it be better than that. The good domestic leagues in Europe are definitely better, as are the top 3 European-wide leagues.

EuroBasket is something like EuroCup/Champions league mix level - so quite easily better than summer league.

[reanimator]

Doncic basically had his textbook game in terms of strengths.

Doncic elite as a PnR passer. Love his motor + physicality to battle grown men for boards. Overdribbles into bad 3s but will make more than his fair share behind the arch so not a big deal.

Just want Doncic to give something consistently inside the arch. Lonzo Ball had far more critics even beyond the Lavar/shot form stuff despite having similar strengths/weaknesses and I wonder why?

to be fair, Doncic ability to play with the defender on his back and put them in jail is sometihng Ball never shown, he doesnt go in much and doesnt get fouls and I get the concern there, but he is more flexible and much more advanced as a ballhandler than Lonzo

Yeah, definitely not saying its 1:1. Just the overall preternatural passing, the transition O, nose for the ball, quick hands on D, and the stepback 3s are reminiscent of one another. Luka definitely better in PnR and shot form bodes better as a pull up shooter while Lonzo has better size for his position, flashed a post up game and some crafty finishing in SL that I'd like to see from Doncic.

[Bob8]

Doncic basically had his textbook game in terms of strengths.

Doncic elite as a PnR passer. Love his motor + physicality to battle grown men for boards. Overdribbles into bad 3s but will make more than his fair share behind the arch so not a big deal.

Just want Doncic to give something consistently inside the arch. Lonzo Ball had far more critics even beyond the Lavar/shot form stuff despite having similar strengths/weaknesses and I wonder why?

to be fair, Doncic ability to play with the defender on his back and put them in jail is sometihng Ball never shown, he doesnt go in much and doesnt get fouls and I get the concern there, but he is more flexible and much more advanced as a ballhandler than Lonzo

Yeah, definitely not saying its 1:1. Just the overall preternatural passing, nose for the ball, quick hands on D, and the stepback 3s are reminiscent of one another. Luka definitely better in PnR and shot form bodes better as a pull up shooter while Lonzo has better size for his position, flashed a post up game and some crafty finishing in SL that I'd like to see from Doncic.

Don't worry you will see all that in the Nba. Summer league???
If I'm not mistaken Doncic is 2 years younger. So he has a lot of time to play and shows his potential in Summer league.
I wonder where was Lonzo showing his potential 2 years ago in the final of Eurobasket for sure not.

[Marcus]

This is for Luka and Dragic the most important game in their life and you're talking about summer league? Winning Eurobasket is in Europe as important as winning Nba title in the USA. Slovenia never won a medal, never!

the statement wasn't in regards to stage or importance of the game it was about the competition on the floor. Obviously a summer league crown doesn't hold a ton a weight comparatively but that's the point he was making.

It wasn't a good point though. NBA Summer League is lower level than any major European competition. The guys that are starring in summer league, are usually at best average players in some mid tier European league. Or playing in Australia, China, Latin America. Mixed in with some D-League stars, that typically are not good enough to make it in EuroLeague.

EuroBasket isn't as good as EuroLeague for sure. But to put it at same level as summer league just isn't right. Summer league, I would equate it to something like the Belgian league maybe, in terms of European basketball leagues. I don't know maybe it's better than that - say Adriatic League level possibly....but no way could it be better than that. The good domestic leagues in Europe are definitely better, as are the top 3 European-wide leagues.

EuroBasket is something like EuroCup/Champions league mix level - so quite easily better than summer league.

Also mixed in with guys on NBA rosters currently and former. Regardless noooooooooobody said Summer League was comparable to any European league. The original point was that the two kids have similar strengths and question marks. Nothing more nothing less. Something that could be easily addressed the way Fischella did it. Point taken, point made, everybody moves on.

[reanimator]

to be fair, Doncic ability to play with the defender on his back and put them in jail is sometihng Ball never shown, he doesnt go in much and doesnt get fouls and I get the concern there, but he is more flexible and much more advanced as a ballhandler than Lonzo

Yeah, definitely not saying its 1:1. Just the overall preternatural passing, nose for the ball, quick hands on D, and the stepback 3s are reminiscent of one another. Luka definitely better in PnR and shot form bodes better as a pull up shooter while Lonzo has better size for his position, flashed a post up game and some crafty finishing in SL that I'd like to see from Doncic.

Don't worry you will see all that in the Nba. Summer league???

I'm well aware that you think all levels of American basketball outside of the NBA suck. Definitely won't argue the Eurobasket is more structured and features a few high-end NBA vets you won't see at the SL level but SL has better athletes on average (i know you and Mirotic disagree so please spare the paragraphs)....and I personally don't think any of these leagues are as predictive to NBA success as some suggest.

Ball only a year and 5 months older btw.

[Mirotic12]

Also mixed in with guys on NBA rosters currently and former. Regardless noooooooooobody said Summer League was comparable to any European league. The original point was that the two kids have similar strengths and question marks. Nothing more nothing less. Something that could be easily addressed the way Fischella did it. Point taken, point made, everybody moves on.

What are the similar strengths and question marks that they share though? I honestly don't see much similarity between then. They are tall for ball handlers...that's about it.

[The-Power]

You keep asserting things as facts, even if they are not.

EuroBasket is something like EuroCup/Champions league mix level - so quite easily better than summer league.

For a guy who claims to not like people expressing their opinions as facts you sure do that a lot yourself.

So the facts, not opinions:

1. NBA centers on average are taller. (for players overall, though they are not taller)

2. NBA centers on average are heavier.

3. EuroLeague centers and NBA centers have no differences in "length".

4. EuroLeague centers on average are more athletic than NBA centers (by quite a lot actually). This isn't the case for the other 4 positions, where NBA is probably more athletic on average. But in the center position, without any doubt whatsoever, EuroLeague is clearly more athletic.

Those are only facts if you can prove them. Can you? Actual evidence, not your opinion or analogies. Otherwise you deserve to get called out for that as often as necessary for you to stop being hypocrite when it comes to facts and opinions.

[Stackey]

I like this nickname, "The Chosen One". He may become best white guard of all time.

Watch on YouTube

[Bob8]

Yeah, definitely not saying its 1:1. Just the overall preternatural passing, nose for the ball, quick hands on D, and the stepback 3s are reminiscent of one another. Luka definitely better in PnR and shot form bodes better as a pull up shooter while Lonzo has better size for his position, flashed a post up game and some crafty finishing in SL that I'd like to see from Doncic.

Don't worry you will see all that in the Nba. Summer league???

I'm well aware that you think all levels of American basketball outside of the NBA suck. Definitely won't argue the Eurobasket is more structured and features a few high-end NBA vets you won't see at the SL level but SL has better athletes on average (i know you and Mirotic disagree so please spare the paragraphs)....and I personally don't think any of these leagues are as predictive to NBA success as some suggest.

Ball only a year and 5 months older btw.

Today Doncic played against Gasol Brothers, Rubio, Rodriguez and Hernangomez brothers. Not bad I think. And they won with his big help by 20. Not bad for high school kid.

Doncic is 99, Ball 97, or maybe we will count days too? I'm pretty sure that 2 years ago Ball didn't play in summer league and dominate there.